patrick.net

but the massive examples of Japan and Germany doing just fine on modern manufacturing

Japan and Germany have export economies with concomitant weak currencies to keep their labor forces price-competitive with lower-wage locales

Shows they have maintained 1/4 their employment base in mfg, about what the USA had until 1980.

Blue is annual trade deficit as % wages (about half this trade deficit was just oil imports)

Red is annual real GDP % growth

The flood of cheap shit from China, Mexico and all the other cheap labor countries has given us a lot of economic growth, as we become a nation of consumers instead of producers.

We've built up an $8T negative NIIP but that's a bill that the mailman lost apparently.

Clinton was pretty conservative in his economics and while Obama was thought of as a reincarnated Che Guevara by the right in reality he absorbed a lot of University of Chicago crap in his time there as a law prof.

Democrats to their credit mostly (60%) voted against NAFTA, Republicans went 75% for it.

Thing is, since Carter the Dems have had control of government for 4 years, the first 2 years of Clinton and Obama admins. And that's only partial control as SCOTUS can still fuck with Dem legislation, like the Roberts court removing the mandatory Medicaid expansion from PPACA.

Trump being pro-labor is laughable as his conservative supporters regularly conflate "leftists" with radicalism.

Sorry Patrick, more Corporatism for you.

If Trump had the ability to cause a brief but intense inflation (dollar value lost) that effected financial and real assets in an extreme way but caused real wages (i.e purchadsing power) to decrease significantly....let's put numbers on it - say this inflation caused his leveraged real estate empire to triple in real equity value, but the average American would be 20% worse off (permanently !) than they would have been had it not happened, is there anyone here that thinks Trump would not choose this ?

Really. Be honest now !

Patrick says

You know that no discussion ever happens after one side says "your hate", right?

Okay, not you personally (although you are sometimes blinded by hate of Muslims - what you call being in touch with a reality that some of us deny out of a desire to keep America what it is). Are you going to tell me that Brietbart, Alex Jones and others don't work the hate angle ? That is knowing that there are some that really want to immerse themselves in hate ? Or that some truly feel hate towards liberals, and that they want to help them confirm those emotions ?

Are you going to tell me that you've never listened to Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones or other talk radio and heard them very obviously appealing to hate ?

Bellingham Bill says

Democrats to their credit mostly (60%) voted against NAFTA, Republicans went 75% for it.

In the early 90s, when there were still Old School Democrats, 40% voted for it, including many that become party leaders of today like Pelosi. NAFTA happened BEFORE the Republicans took back Congress, the 60/40 split by the Democrats guaranteed it's passage. It should have been 99% against.

Almost all modern Democratic Politicians at the Federal level, and most at the State Level, are diehard Neoliberals. The crazy idea we have a shortage of unskilled workers, and adding more mostly unskilled people to the nation, is also a universal belief. We also have no shortage of entry-level professionals, either. There's actually a STEM glut.

.

Meanwhile people who say immigration is wonderful plan to retire to homogenuous countries that really don't allow any immigration, indeed they paid Brazilian Japanese to leave the country. I believe Japan took twenty-four (24) refugees last year, most of whom had Japanese ancestry. But they gave a lot to the UN Refugee Programs to avoid criticism. We should do the same.

I never said Trump is a great human being, only that Trump is the sole representative in government who is at least saying the right things about the concerns of labor.

That makes him our Labor Party. The Republicans really didn't want him. He's definitely not a Democrat either, and least not a new style identity-politics Democrat.

Could be just salesmanship. I'm not entirely sure how much he really intends to do, or can get done given the opposition, even within his own party.

What I am entirely sure about is that the opposition (Democrats and the media) have become utterly unhinged and care about nothing except getting back at Trump because of his taunts:

A Washington Post/Abc News poll published July 19 found that 52 percent of Americans don’t believe the Democratic party stands for anything beyond opposing Trump. Even 42 percent of nonwhite voters agree that Trump-bashing is all the party is focused on.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/450207/liberal-elite-class-warfare-working-class-helps-trump

rando says

poll published July 19 found that 52 percent of Americans don’t believe the Democratic party stands for anything beyond opposing Trump.

What should they stand for when they have so little power ? Does 52% sound like a high number to you in that context ?

You see what you hear as opposing Trump for the sake of opposing Trump, many of us see as a very rational fear of what an unstable narcissistic liar and man child will do to ruin this country, that is on top of all the plain and obvious to any honest person things he's already trying to do. Opposing Trump is being rational honest and patriotic.

If you answered this honestly,

marcus says

If Trump had the ability to cause a brief but intense inflation (dollar value lost) that effected financial and real assets in an extreme way but caused real wages (i.e purchasing power) to decrease significantly....let's put numbers on it - say this inflation caused his leveraged real estate empire to triple in real equity value, but the average American would be 20% worse off (permanently !) than they would have been had it not happened, is there anyone here that thinks Trump would not choose this ?

then you would have a clue as to why many democrats fear and oppose Trump so much.

"I never said Trump is a great human being, only that Trump is the sole representative in government who is at least saying the right things about the concerns of labor.

That makes him our Labor Party. The Republicans really didn't want him. He's definitely not a Democrat either, and least not a new style identity-politics Democrat."

Have you heard of Bernie Sanders? Elizabeth Warren? Those are people who would actually do what they say and not just give it lip service to fool unsuspecting voters.

I also find it somewhat ironic that Patrick says "there are none so deaf" to another poster. That's how many feel trying to show Trump voters that he doesn't have their interest at heart. He's a used car salesman and everything he does is going to help himself and hurt the working class. All his talk about illegals and Islam is just to distract the base while he screws them over hard.

marcus says

Democrats are owned by the corporations and plutocrats too, but in reality democrats would do far more for workers than Trump ever will, but Trump is an effective con man and you've bought his bs about being an outsider and for you.

Tpp, nafta, the wall, rejection of anti working class white identify politics, rejection of political correctness, celebrates police and army personnel, and fights to repeal the ACA...

What has the DNC done to help working class people?

CBOEtrader says

Tpp, nafta, the wall, rejection of anti working class white identify politics, rejection of political correctness, celebrates police and army personnel, and fights to repeal the ACA...

Is that meant to be your list of things Trump has done for the worker ?

rando says

I never said Trump is a great human being, only that Trump is the sole representative in government who is at least saying the right things about the concerns of labor.

That makes him our Labor Party. The Republicans really didn't want him. He's definitely not a Democrat either, and least not a new style identity-politics Democrat.

What he is saying and what he is doing are far apart. Look at his cabinet. Those that aren't generals have spent decades cutting labor's share of the economic pie to enhance their own wealth. Cutting down on immigration? Where are the raids and prosecutions of employers? Look at the changes at the Labor department. Fiduciary rule? Overtime? How about other departments. Where is he representing the concerns of labor/middle class? Oh wait the answer is:

CBOEtrader says

Tpp, nafta, the wall, rejection of anti working class white identify politics, rejection of political correctness, celebrates police and army personnel, and fights to repeal the ACA...

You know TPP wasn't passed don't you? Trump didn't take anything away or change anything. TPP wasn't going to happen anyway. There is no wall. What law has been passed rejecting idenify politics/rejection of political correctness and how much has it improved the wages of labor/middle class? How has celebration of police/army improved the wages of labor/middle class. Repealing the ACA will improve life for labor/middle class how exactly?

Every time some one asks the question what has Trump done for labor/middle class the trump robots answer is look how bad Obama was. Propaganda works.

Don't be a hack Jazz

Hahahahahaha. That's a good one, Patrick!

only that Trump is the sole representative in government who is at least saying the right things about the concerns of labor.

----------

What is he even saying, much less doing, wrt the concerns of Labor?

That the brown folk from the south are stealing your jobs? So build a wall to keep them out, and you'll bigly have great jobs?

That the brown folk from the Far East are using religious tactics almost identical to yours, to screw you out of a job? If maybe we go to war there, then you'll have a great job?

If Trump were the Labor Party, he never would have went Sessions.

The most populist position out there right now is ending the War on Drugs. The blooming Cannabis industry is the only American outlet for Economic growth and jobs right now, yet they are doubling down, fighting against American Freedom and the citizenry.

Wake the Fuck up

To be fair the republicans started this policy of "bring the dude down at all costs" the day obama took office. What we see now is just payback from the left. Its all out of control.
Which is why hurling trump at the mess to blow it up is proving to be a good strategy.
Look whats coming down the pike. Kasich and Higginwhothefuck.
Uninification party coming. Will be swept into office as the oldtimers are swept out of the way...
rando says

What I am entirely sure about is that the opposition (Democrats and the media) have become utterly unhinged and care about nothing except getting back at Trump because of his taunts

To be fair the republicans started this policy of "bring the dude down at all costs" the day obama took office. What we see now is just payback from the left. Its all out of control.

--------------

Kudos for the honesty.

Many seem to magically forget the context of the eight years prior. When The Right used lies and fueled hate to disrupt government at any cost.

There's a reason why all these people floundering about, trying to muster up reasons to support Trump and his Republican Party, can only attack "the opposition ". It's because they have nothing positive to support on their side.

I've asked countless times for evidence to the contrary, and never can anyone anywhere offer an answer. It's pathetic

How much outsourced imports have Trump & his family's business brought into America from China at the cost of American jobs?
How much imported crap have Republican labor bought in the last 8 months?

We need to declare a national Emergency!
Republicans are in the midst of a Hypocrisy epidemic.

errc says

It's because they have nothing positive to support on their side.

It's Obama's fault!
It's Hillary's fault!
It's the Left's fault!
It's Antifa's fault!
It's LBGTQ's fault!
It's abortionists' fault!
It's brown peoples' fault!

Still sounds like nothing to me.

errc says

There's a reason why all these people floundering about, trying to muster up reasons to support Trump and his Republican Party, can only attack "the opposition ". It's because they have nothing positive to support on their side.

I've asked countless times for evidence to the contrary, and never can anyone anywhere offer an answer. It's pathetic

Republicans attacked Obama from the get-go by all means, but they didn't have the help of the media like the left has with their fight against Trump. Also the Republican party had been in disarray for a while already, what happened was that the Democrats took it to a whole new level with their identity crap and surpassed the Republican party in their demise.

mell says

errc says

There's a reason why all these people floundering about, trying to muster up reasons to support Trump and his Republican Party, can only attack "the opposition ". It's because they have nothing positive to support on their side.

I've asked countless times for evidence to the contrary, and never can anyone anywhere offer an answer. It's pathetic

Republicans attacked Obama from the get-go by all means, but they didn't have the help of the media like the left has with their fight against Trump. Also the Republican party had been in disarray for a while already, what happened was that the Democrats to it to a whole new level with their identity crap and surpassed the Republican party in their demise.

Thanks for proving my point

Now get back to constantly attacking the left while supporting the Republicans without question, like a good Independent

errc says

Kudos for the honesty.

The other honest point: The Media did not participate in the demonization of Obama, and indeed all but Canonized him. Today, the MSM is acting like the propaganda wing of the #CNTL-Left.

errc says

Thanks for proving my point

Now get back to constantly attacking the left while supporting the Republicans without question, like a good Independent

There's nothing to prove. Sometime the lesser of two evil is simply that, the better choice. I'd like to see somebody like Ron or Rand Paul or Kucinich in the oval office, hardly mainstream Republican. And as long as the left will keep pushing identity politics my stance won't change, as they are poisoning society with it. You can see the fabric of American unity coming apart because of this needless divide.

To put it another way, Trump simply is saying "I got this, you just go back and take care about your family and wok and we will handle all the politics". Whether you think he got it or not is largely irrelevant, but that is exactly what people want. Everybody has a family member they worry about or they need to take care off, everybody is busy with work making a living, do you honestly think they want to hear about made up academia bullshit such as "systemic racism/sexism" or "microaggressions" and all the other shit that is hurled at them from other politicians on a daily basis? 99% of Americans are hard working people with well intent towards others regardless of gender or race or whatever and they are fed up with discussion shit like this, instead they would like to hear about the economy and jobs.

mell says

Republicans attacked Obama from the get-go by all means, but they didn't have the help of the media like the left has with their fight against Trump.

The media? There is only 1 media? Billions of dollars in right wing media isn't media? There was no help from the right wing media attacking Obama?

mell says

And as long as the left will keep pushing identity politics my stance won't change, as they are poisoning society with it.

Very objective. Not. So decades of coded racism from the far right isn't identity politics causing a needless divide? Welfare queens, inner city crime, criminal immigrants, states rights, controls the media, the list goes on.

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

bob2356 says

Welfare queens, inner city crime, criminal immigrants, states rights, controls the media, the list goes on.

These have been and are legit topics that need to be addressed on a continuous basis, where is the discrimination in this?? There isn't. I don't see anywhere that criminal immigrants include/exclude certain races or religions or sex, same for welfare queens. You can argue you want the haves to care better for the have-nots, but advocating for Calvinism and equal opportunity instead of equal outcome has zero to do with discrimination.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Today, the MSM is acting like the propaganda wing of the #CNTL-Left.

Yeah, all these middle of the road and even usually conservative columnists bashing Trump

It's almost as if there is some truth to the concerns of many intelligent people that honestly believe Trump is an unstable narcissistic and incompetent President that is very dangerous not only to this country but even to the continuation of life on earth as we know it.

Yeah, they are all wrong. The MSM has everyone fooled. Trumps low approval ratings are entirely the fault of the MSM.

One question though. Who gives people like David Brooks, George WIll, Paul Krugman and countless other MSM commentators their marching orders ? Is it George Soros perhaps ? Who is it ? Or are they just sharing their actual opinion ? Becasue they are blinded by their partisanship.

Back when Trump was elected, a lot of democrats were upset. But believe me, liberals were ready to be pleasantly surprised. Maybe he would fight for universal health care (medicare for all - or other form). Maybe he was not as far right as he campaigned. Maybe he really wants to try to clean up corruption in Washington. I wish he did. Everyone found out that it's been worse than we thought. Our country has lost a lot of it's global reputation, because Trump is worse than we could have imagined. Sure there many liberals in themedia. Many of them would have been happy to report that their initial fears were over blown, if only it were true.

mell says

To put it another way, Trump simply is saying "I got this, you just go back and take care about your family and wok and we will handle all the politics". Whether you think he got it or not is largely irrelevant, but that is exactly what people want. Everybody has a family member they worry about or they need to take care off, everybody is busy with work making a living, do you honestly think they want to hear about made up academia bullshit such as "systemic racism/sexism" or "microaggressions" and all the other shit that is hurled at them from other politicians on a daily basis? 99% of Americans are hard working people with well intent towards others regardless of gender or race or whatever and they are fed up with discussion shit like this, instead they would like to hear about the economy and jobs.

Right. I have a big family, and all I want to do is look out for them, the American Way. So I've done a cost benefit analysis on all the goings on in this country and found one unifying issue, that is very simple to resolve, and helps everyones causes.

You like States rights?
You like Individuals rights?
You want the government out of your bedroom?
Personal responsibility?
Freedom?
Free Markets?
The Economy?
Jobs?
Domestic production over foreign?
A return to law & Order?

I can check every box with one single issue. It's an extremely popular issue. It's easy to resolve in house, without expending unnecessary energy and resources bungling up with foreign affairs.

The time has long come to end The War on Drugs. Everyone knows this. Yet people are either ignorant, stupid, uneducated or indoctrinated to allow it to continue because. Because you're all SJW's now, bleeting about endlessly about your pet issue, that anyone with a brain can easily choose to avoid.

I'm not some looney SJW that watches too much tv, and gets led off on a worthless tangent about the SJW issue du jour. I'm just a Real American, living Real American life, in America! I'm just a rational person that sees things for what they are. I'm certain that the people that choose to be distracted with nonsense, are going home or driving to the bar getting loaded on alcohol like a Real Failed Loser, as Trump would say. And the rest of us are left to subsidize the burdensome costs of alcohol use in this society.

The War on Drugs is what is tearing this country apart, it's obvious to anyone with a pulse. Yet somehow that doesn't bother people nearly as much as what some purple haired cunt says on YouTube, or when some wimpy kid with a stick yells at a large crowd of violent, armed, Neo Nazis.

The trouble makers need to quit making so much fucking noise about their SJW nonsense, so us problem solvers can clean up your mess

This whole Trumpkin narrative about the media is getting ridiculous. Here are some actual studies:

https://www.good.is/articles/hillary-clinton-negative-press

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/15/media-analysis-shows-hillary-clinton-has-received-most-negative-stories-least-positive-stories-all/209945

And anyone who thinks the media didn't relentlessly pan Obamacare has very selective memory.

https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2013/12/11/network-news-coverage-of-obamacare-rollout-over/197228

I know facts don't matter anymore and Bass probably still believes that the Trump inauguration crowd was bigger than Obama's, but come on. Let's try to at least pretend to be truthful.

marcus says

Yeah, all these middle of the road and even usually conservative columnists bashing Trump

You mean the Controlled Opposition, the kind that love war and intervention and tax cuts for the rich, but when it comes to Building the Wall, Controlling Near-record high Immigration, and fighting the Left takeover of Education, they are completely AWOL.

I'm amazed at all the new-found respect the #AltLeft is doling out to the old Iraq War boosters. Seems the only thing they have in common is TDS.

marcus says

It's almost as if there is some truth to the concerns of many intelligent people that honestly believe Trump is an unstable narcissistic and incompetent President that is very dangerous not only to this country but even to the continuation of life on earth as we know it.

The Media was bashing Trump from the moment he stepped into office. It's amazing Trump's numbers are so high, given the 24-7-365 Media Bashing from just about every major outlet. Whether it's being Putin's stooge or the new Hitler, the Media jumps from narrative to narrative to remove Trump.

EXACTLY what you would expect by Oligarch-controlled Media whose owners profit off of labor arbitrage and outsourcing-then-reimporting-with-no-tariff, while getting a tax brake for the cost of moving overseas.

errc says

The time has long come to end The War on Drugs.

Yep, but while it's important to you - and it's eventually happening state-by-state at an increasingly rapid pace - it's not everybody's first and final concern. I believe Tariffs and restricting Immigration and banning immigrants from Sharia-law States and places were there is Civil Wars with Radical Islam is more important.

"EXACTLY what you would expect by Oligarch-controlled Media whose owners profit off of labor arbitrage and outsourcing-then-reimporting-with-no-tariff, while getting a tax brake for the cost of moving overseas."

It's also what you'd expect when an incompetent egotistical, reality TV B lister tries unsuccessfully to masquerade as President of the US.

Perhaps some of the media bashing is well earned?

joeyjojojunior says

It's also what you'd expect when an incompetent egotistical, reality TV B lister tries unsuccessfully to masquerade as President of the US.

Pssst, he won the Electoral College and IS the President of the United States. Despite the Media, and indeed, possibly because they overplayed their hand.

How are those special election victories foreshadowing 2018 for ya?

They're holding on to the fallacy that once they remove Trump, we'll go back to 1990s and 2000s style Conservativism, all about abortion bullshit, which is deader than a doorknob. The Democrats wish for that, too.

We see Amazon and Ebay and other Huge Corporations that profit greatly off outsourced-then-imported goods agreeing with the SPLC, who has Muslim reformers like Majiid Nawaz ylisted as Hate Extremists.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/anti-extremism-muslim-far-left-politics-quilliam-social-reform-a7388931.html

And sure enough, their controlled media HATES anybody who isn't for Open Borders to help their Corporations.

The next phase is to purge the Party of "True Conservatives" who never fund the already-authorized Wall (back in the 90s when Clinton gave lip service to it), constantly remove H1B caps, give tax breaks to outsourcing companies, say they're for Free Trade with Communist China - transferring high tech manufacturing to a rival while banning Canadian Drugs (a NAFTA member FFS!!!), and remaining silent in the face of an outburst of #AltLeft Rage and Violence.

"Pssst, he won the Electoral College and IS the President of the United States. Despite the Media, and indeed, possibly because they overplayed their hand. How are those special election victories foreshadowing 2018 for ya?"

Still trending great! Looking forward to 2018 actually.

"And sure enough, their controlled media HATES anybody who isn't for Open Borders to help their Corporations."

So what explains their hatred towards Clinton then? The studies show she received more negative articles than Trump

joeyjojojunior says

Still trending great! Looking forward to 2018 actually.

Is it 0-3 or 0-4, I forget?

Oh, 0-4. Losing by a little less in a no incumbent election is still losing.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/21/politics/democrats-georgia-elections-analysis/index.html

Since i'm in a rare non-troll mode today ( lack of sugar ), I'll posit that this seems to be the straw that broke the camels back.
it' s unprecedented afaik...

www.youtube.com/embed/W-A09a_gHJc

TwoScoopsMcGee says

The other honest point: The Media did not participate in the demonization of Obama, and indeed all but Canonized him.

Is it 0-3 or 0-4, I forget?

It's an average swing of +14 points or so toward Dems.

"Oh, 0-4. Losing by a little less in a no incumbent election is still losing"

Yep, but foreshadows better results in 2018

Every district isn't gerrymandered to +30 Red.

errc says

The War on Drugs is what is tearing this country apart

Agreed on the failed war on drugs (I'm for legalizing most if not all drugs), but drugs are not pervasive in everyone's life, SJWs and their consequences are. So it's not tearing the country apart, but it certainly is causing damage.

That's hardly surprising, most parties want to deny their opponents more terms. I guarantee there have been high ranking Democrats saying they want to deny Reagan or Bush (or Eisenhower) a second term.

Paul Ryan has worked with Obama to have a non-budget year after year.
Republicans in the Senate, like McCain, who campaigned on Repealing the Aetnacare Subsidy, find reasons not to do so.
Republicans in both Houses that support the Wall and Border Controls, never fund anything (for many years now). Indeed, the often lift H1B caps.
"Managed Democracy"

And all this while they have a majority.

It's because they're the Controlled Opposition, which is why they like Issues like Abortion and Euthanasia so much. They don't have to do anything "Real" "Bread and Butter" to generate votes with the base. They hate dealing with Immigration and Economic Nationalism, because they and their Donors secretly agree with it.