patrick.net

P N Dr Lo R says

which values production over consumption, having children within monogomous marriage, frugality and religious observance in the Christian and Jewish traditions

Sounds like Trump to me.

joeyjojojunior says

I know--how ridiculous is this? Like there aren't any Republicans that are a-holes or pedophiles?

Not many Republicans were as powerful as Weinstein (Hollywood in general) to shape our CULTURE and morally scold us on a variety of issues like the "war on women", guns, foreign policy and immigration.

Politics is downstream of culture. We wonder how someone as vulgar and crass as Trump can get elected as President - just look at how Hollywood has debased our culture both in their products and personal activities.

Democrats have had a massive advantage with Hollywood, Media and Academia being in lockstep with the Democrat party. Throw on the massive corruption feedback loop of public sector unions feeding the massive government bureaucracy and I'm amazed that Republicans can win at all fighting against those headwinds.

But these massive Democrat leaning institutions are all coming unglued.

- Hollywood is imploding under the Weinstein scandal.
- Academia has embarrassed itself over and over the last few years with the SJW nonsense.
- The Media is being exposed for being complicit in Hollywood's coverup and carrying water for Democrats with all this bogus Russian collusion crap - and ignoring the Uranium story.
- The US Supreme Court is about to take a sledgehammer to public sector unions with the Janus case

socal2 says

Democrats have had a massive advantage with Hollywood, Media and Academia being in lockstep with the Democrat party. Throw on the massive corruption feedback loop of public sector unions feeding the massive government bureaucracy and I'm amazed that Republicans can win at all fighting against those headwinds

Nonsense. Republicans have had a huge advantage with almost all organized religion and big business in their corner. They have a political rally every Sunday, 52 weeks/year from a tax exempt "institution", and a non-stop propaganda war from limitless pocketed businesses.

joeyjojojunior says

They have a political rally every Sunday, 52 weeks/year from a tax exempt "institution", and a non-stop propaganda war from limitless pocketed businesses.

Meanwhile, the Dems have non-stop propaganda 24/7 from 90% of the media.

joeyjojojunior says

Republicans have had a huge advantage with almost all organized religion and big business in their corner. They have a political rally every Sunday, 52 weeks/year from a tax exempt "institution", and a non-stop propaganda war from limitless pocketed businesses.

Sounds like a plan!

joeyjojojunior says

Nonsense. Republicans have had a huge advantage with almost all organized religion and big business in their corner. They have a political rally every Sunday, 52 weeks/year from a tax exempt "institution", and a non-stop propaganda war from limitless pocketed businesses.

In other words, Republicans rely on private citizens and private institutions to get their message out.

Whereas, Democrats rely heavily on uber-rich Hollywood/Media and tax supported institutions like academia and public sector unions spending our tax dollars to get their message out.

socal2 says

In other words, Republicans rely on private citizens and private institutions to get their message out.

Whereas, Democrats rely heavily on uber-rich Hollywood/Media and tax supported institutions like academia and public sector unions spending our tax dollars to get their message out.

Nope.. 100% incorrect.

The church is a HEAVILY tax supported institution. Big business is NOT a private citizen despite what Citizens United may have tried to say.

So, Republicans are much worse at what you just posted than Dems. Much, much worse.

Sniper says

Meanwhile, the Dems have non-stop propaganda 24/7 from 90% of the media.

Too bad they didn't get the message in 2016 as Clinton and the Dems received almost 3X as much negative publicity as Republicans and Trump.

joeyjojojunior says

The church is a HEAVILY tax supported institution.

Love the Liberal double-speak.

If a Church doesn't have to give a portion of the money it collects from its congregants (who have already had their income's taxed) to the government - it is somehow HEAVILY tax supported?

You really think that is the same thing as Public Sector unions literally taking our tax dollars away from improving infrastructure, schools and public services and funneling it to campaign for Democrats?
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=P04++

socal2 says

Love the Liberal double-speak.

If a Church doesn't have to give a portion of the money it collects from its congregants (who have already had their income's taxed) to the government - it is somehow HEAVILY tax supported?

Did you forget that all church "donations" are tax supported? 1/3 of all the church revenue comes from Uncle Sam. And unlike public sector workers, the US is getting NOTHING for that money.

socal2 says

You really think that is the same thing as Public Sector unions literally taking our tax dollars away from improving infrastructure, schools and public services and funneling it to campaign for Democrats?

Talk about doublespeak. Public sector unions get money from workers (who have already had their income's taxed) who are getting paid a fair wage for services they are providing. And those services ARE infrastructure, schools and public services. They aren't taking money away from those services...

joeyjojojunior says

Did you forget that all church "donations" are tax supported? 1/3 of all the church revenue comes from Uncle Sam. And unlike public sector workers, the US is getting NOTHING for that money.

People donate their own money. Just because Uncle Sam can't get his grubby paws on it, doesn't mean it is being subsidized. Also, I'd argue that our individual churches, synagogues and temples do a better job with their charities than many of the inefficient (and often destructive) government welfare programs.

There is no government program or welfare system that can fix single parent households which is the genesis of all the social dysfunction we see today in terms of poverty, crime, drug use and lack of education. Our churches/synagogues and temples are the last institutions that actually encourages families to stick together. While Hollywood, Media and our Government are busy breaking down the family and getting them reliant on government.

joeyjojojunior says

Talk about doublespeak. Public sector unions get money from workers (who have already had their income's taxed) who are getting paid a fair wage for services they are providing. And those services ARE infrastructure, schools and public services. They aren't taking money away from those services...

Dude - just stop. Are you even minimally aware of the government employee pension crisis that is bankrupting cities all across the country?

Too much of our tax dollars goes to:
- Public Sector unions that use that money for political purposes to elect Democrats (this is a real case of tax dollars subsidizing something)
- Gold plated salaries and benefits keeping our inefficient government bureaucracy living as 1 percenters

socal2 says

People donate their own money

They donate 2/3 of their money and 1/3 of the government's money.

socal2 says

Too much of our tax dollars goes to:
- Public Sector unions that use that money for political purposes to elect Democrats (this is a real case of tax dollars subsidizing something)
- Gold plated salaries and benefits keeping our inefficient government bureaucracy living as 1 percenters

Great--let's pass campaign finance reform then! You're on board, right?

And you're the one who needs to stop. You'd have to be woefully uneducated to think any government employee is remotely like a 1%er. The government employees who people think are ridiculously overpaid are at best upper middle class.

joeyjojojunior says

Public sector unions get money from workers

True. Either way, though, the donations on that linked page are peanuts. A few million bucks. That's nothing these days. The Mercers paid more on their own. So did the Kochs.

socal2 says

If a Church doesn't have to give a portion of the money it collects from its congregants (who have already had their income's taxed) to the government - it is somehow HEAVILY tax supported?

Only idiots put a little cash in the dish each week and do not deduct. Any serious money donated to the church is tax deductable. If people don't deduct it, that doesn't mean that the whole thing is not heavily subsidized.

joeyjojojunior says

They donate 2/3 of their money and 1/3 of the government's money.

Again - it's Orwellian to call it "government's money".

joeyjojojunior says

Great--let's pass campaign finance reform then! You're on board, right?

We get rid of Public Sector unions - you bet! We will finally have an even playing field and get a government bureaucracy that isn't terrible. Hopefully the US Supreme Court will take care of a big chunk of this with the Janus case.

joeyjojojunior says

And you're the one who needs to stop. You'd have to be woefully uneducated to think any government employee is remotely like a 1%er. The government employees who people think are ridiculously overpaid are at best upper middle class.

I've been working with Public Sector workers for nearly a quarter century in California. Many of them with 6 figure pensions are in the 1%.
https://transparentcalifornia.com/
Kindergarten teachers in my kid's school districts make $80K AND get fat Pensions.

socal2 says

I've been working with Public Sector workers for nearly a quarter century in California. Many of them with 6 figure pensions are in the 1%.
https://transparentcalifornia.com/
Kindergarten teachers in my kid's school districts make $80K AND get fat Pensions.

Wow--just for educational purposes.

The 1% starts at a salary of $456,000. I don't think you'll find many teachers or government workers in that range no matter what their pension is.

socal2 says

Kindergarten teachers in my kid's school districts make $80K AND get fat Pensions.

fyi--they contribute to those pensions.

joeyjojojunior says

socal2 says

Kindergarten teachers in my kid's school districts make $80K AND get fat Pensions.

fyi--they contribute to those pensions.

...but they don't contribute to SS.

KimJongUn says

...but they don't contribute to SS.

And they don't collect SS

joeyjojojunior says

The 1% starts at a salary of $456,000. I don't think you'll find many teachers or government workers in that range no matter what their pension is.

OK - they are 2 percenters. Still a fuck-ton of money to many low skilled employees.

Even people making $456K a year can't count on a guaranteed 6 figure pension FOR LIFE starting at 55. Many government workers also get free healthcare FOR LIFE.

At least in California, we have some of the worst infrastructure in the country, terrible educations scores, high number of cities facing bankruptcy and very high taxes - while our government employees are paid very well and have huge bankrupting pensions.

Leave it to Democrats to think the solution is MOAR taxes without demanding reform.

joeyjojojunior says

fyi--they contribute to those pensions

There is no way in hell that they contributed enough to make 90% of their final pay for the rest of their lives starting after 30 years of service (typically 55).

I keep hearing about CA gov workers being overpaid. Why don't more people go for those jobs? Why isn't the free market working?

socal2 says

There is no way in hell that they contributed enough to make 90% of their final pay for the rest of their lives starting after 30 years of service (typically 55).

Of course not.. Just like you didn't contribute all of your 401K either.

There are company contributions and investment gains.

joeyjojojunior says

Of course not.. Just like you didn't contribute all of your 401K either.

There are company contributions and investment gains.

Of course - but my 401K is not a guaranteed defined benefit. If the stock market tanks, so does my 401K value. This is not the case with government pensions.

Do you know what a "Defined Benefit" is? Do you know why all these cities are facing bankruptcy because they are having to divert more and more general fund money that should go to infrastructure and better schools to shore up these massive pension obligations?

States like California and Illinois have enshrined public sector pensions in the State Constitution. So when a city goes bankrupt, they have to raise taxes, reduce services and shaft bond holders while the government worker 2 percenters get to keep their lavish pensions.

joeyjojojunior says

KimJongUn says

...but they don't contribute to SS.

And they don't collect SS

Duh!

Rew says

Trump won because not enough Americans were well informed

Rew says

American people were emotional and ignorant, and Trump capitalized and exploited

Rew says

Ignorance won Trump the vote

Rew says

Trump won because he embraced and elevated what I believe to be the worst in America and in people: anti-intellectualism

This is EXACTLY the type of thinking that will lead the left to lose again in 2020. The left has embraced this insane idea that the right is not with them because they are ignorant or ill-informed. If only they could be guided towards the light surely they would have voted Hillary! I see this false arrogance repeated constantly in political debates. The truth is that the right is not with them because the right has a different set of values and a different view of the role that government should play in people's lives.

Being convinced that a candidate won because his supporters are ignorant and ill-informed is unbelievably arrogant and ignorant in itself.

BayArea

BayArea says

The left has embraced this insane idea that the right is not with them because they are ignorant or ill-informed.

Oh, do we have to be politically correct now? Is it not OK to point out that Trump won non college grads by 7 pts and lost college grads by 10 pts?

BayArea says

Rew says

Trump won because he embraced and elevated what I believe to be the worst in America and in people: anti-intellectualism

This is EXACTLY the type of thinking that will lead the left to lose again in 2020. The left has embraced this insane idea that the right is not with them because they are ignorant or ill-informed. If only they could be guided towards the light surely they would have voted Hillary! I see this false arrogance repeated constantly in political debates. The truth is that the right is not with them because the right has a different set of values and a different view of the role that government should play in people's lives.

Being convinced that a candidate won because his supporters are ignorant and ill-informed is unbelievably arrogant and ignorant in itself.

100% agree... this type of thinking will keep the dems out of the white house.

joeyjojojunior says

Oh, do we have to be politically correct now? Is it not OK to point out that Trump won non college grads by 7 pts and lost college grads by 10 pts?

Of course not. You can be anything you want to be. You can also point out anything you want. You can also lose again in 2020.

komputodo says

Of course not. You can be anything you want to be. You can also point out anything you want. You can also lose again in 2020.

I doubt it.

Seriously--just look at all the Trumpcucks that can't even formulate a coherent response on this site. All they do is post cartoons. It's not OK to call them out?

BayArea says

Being convinced that a candidate won because his supporters are ignorant and ill-informed is unbelievably arrogant and ignorant in itself.

No it's not. It's exactly what Jefferson and Madison believed. The mob is ignorant and ill-informed and this has been the case for thousands of years. If more than 1 in 10,000 ever bothered to read Machiavelli, Wealth of Nations, and the Social Contract, maybe we'd have a chance but that isn't the life people live anymore. This is the great failing of democracy and it will be the end of it in America.

#nemoipresident

BayArea says

The truth is that the right is not with them because the right has a different set of values and a different view of the role that government should play in people's lives.

That is true to a point. The 1% votes Republican because they own the party. Look at the tax "reform" bills being talked about--those are the reason that the 1% votes Republican. They are intelligent and know exactly what they are purchasing with their contributions and votes.

And the different set of values that these Republicans hold is "got mine, f*$( you" whereas the Dems think differently.

socal2 says

I've been working with Public Sector workers for nearly a quarter century in California. Many of them with 6 figure pensions are in the 1%.

Then based on your long experience you should have no trouble telling us what percentage of public employees in CA have 6 figure pensions and what types of positions they held. I for one would be very curious to know.

It all comes down to social tendency. Democrats tend to be more trusting of society in general and want to be involved with forming a stronger and more pervasive social structure. This is fine, but doesn’t account for the fact that a good percentage of people are independent minded and want to do things by and for themselves. Both sorts of people are both useful and necessary to make civilization work. Neither side should be marginalized or lose rights or opportunities or they become resentful. When one side becomes so arrogant that they try to completely disenfranchise and negate the other side, this sets society as a whole up for dysfunction and civil strife. That is exactly what’s been happening in america for the past couple decades, however, and it boils down to a simple difference in attitudes.

If Democrats were as enlightened as they claim to be, they wouldn’t attempt to marginalize the other side, but rather attempt to accommodate and incorporate their wishes into the greater machine of society. This whole Trump thing is the result of Democrats actually being very stupid and UNenlightened, and the pushback catching them with their pants down.

Quigley says

This whole Trump thing is the result of Democrats actually being very stupid and UNenlightened, and the pushback catching them with their pants down.

That's what you'd like to believe and portray but it's not what actually happened. Trump told a bunch of lies like brining coal jobs back or keeping Carrier in the US, and combined it with a bunch of lies designed to scare people ("thugs" in Chicago, Muslims, Mexican rapists) and was lucky enough to have a horrible Dem opponent that the media hated. It was a perfect storm.

The truth is that the right is not with them because the right has a different set of values and a different view of the role that government should play in people's lives.

——————-

And then I ask you what that is, and one of two things happens: either you don’t know what they are, so you don’t/can’t answer, or whatever your answer is, none of those ideas, values, or preferred role of government align with Trump/Republicans actions.

Quigley says

It all comes down to social tendency. Democrats tend to be more trusting of society in general and want to be involved with forming a stronger and more pervasive social structure. This is fine, but doesn’t account for the fact that a good percentage of people are independent minded and want to do things by and for themselves. Both sorts of people are both useful and necessary to make civilization work. Neither side should be marginalized or lose rights or opportunities or they become resentful. When one side becomes so arrogant that they try to completely disenfranchise and negate the other side, this sets society as a whole up for dysfunction and civil strife. That is exactly what’s been happening in america for the past couple decades, however, and it boils down to a simple difference in attitudes.

If Democrats were as enlightened as they claim to be, they wouldn’t attempt to marginalize the other side, but rather attempt to accommodate and incorporate their wishes int...

Ok. So you’ve spent a lot of time focusing on why you hate Democrats, but why does that make voting in an all Republican Government a good solution? We’ve lived with Republican rule and a system of Republican law for decades, what is it you see being different this time?

errc says

Ok. So you’ve spent a lot of time focusing on why you hate Democrats

Wrong! Try again! I was saying that both conservative and liberals are necessary! And when one group tries to dominate the other as has happened recently, there’s natural pushback and strife!