0
0

Our financial elite learned nothing from the housing bubble


 invite response                
2017 Aug 17, 10:59am   15,264 views  73 comments

by tovarichpeter   ➕follow (6)   💰tip   ignore  

http://cepr.net/publications/op-eds-columns/ten-years-after-financial-crisis-our-elites-have-learned-nothing

SeriesTHE BLOGS Ten Years After Financial Crisis Our Elites Have Learned Nothing Dean BakerTruthout, August 14, 2017See article on original siteLast week, I heard BBC announce the 10th anniversary of the beginning of the financial crisis. This is dated to the decision by the French bank BNP Paribas to prohibit withdrawals from two hedge funds that were heavily invested in subprime mortgage backed securities. According to BBC, this was when lending began to freeze and house prices began to fall.The problem with BBC's story is that house prices had already been falling for more than a year. While the nationwide...


#housing

« First        Comments 15 - 54 of 73       Last »     Search these comments

16   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 29, 9:28am  

Strat--

That isn't detailing the bailout costs, it's the costs of the recession.
17   Strategist   2017 Oct 29, 9:31am  

joeyjojojunior says
Strat--

That isn't detailing the bailout costs, it's the costs of the recession.


The bailout costs are part of the recession costs. I don't know if firm figures even exist.
18   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 29, 9:46am  

Strategist says

The bailout costs are part of the recession costs. I don't know if firm figures even exist.


Sure, but I was speaking only of the bailout costs. Yes, those do exist and I should have said excluding the auto bailout because that was expensive.

Here is an accounting:

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-16-147R
19   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 29, 10:23am  

Again--is it that hard to understand the difference between the meltdown and the bailout?

The meltdown CAUSED the bailout. They aren't the same thing.
20   Ceffer   2017 Oct 29, 10:51am  

The OP isn't fair at all. The elite found they could commit financial crimes in the billions, get away with it and even get bailed out by the Gov.

Time for the next foray!
21   anonymous   2017 Oct 30, 2:18am  

The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it.
22   anonymous   2017 Oct 30, 6:21am  

Every country has the government it deserves.
23   anotheraccount   2017 Oct 30, 7:57am  

joeyjojojunior says
Very, very few of the bailed out companies are located anywhere near the Bay Area.


Bay area companies depend on bailed out enterprises around the world for their business. The world is highly correlated and 14T of QE by all central banks has pushed asset prices higher everywhere.
24   anonymous   2017 Oct 30, 8:00am  

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
25   WineHorror   2017 Oct 30, 8:25am  

joeyjojojunior says
NuttBoxer says
I disagree. They learned they can be as reckless as they want with other people's money, then when it blows up in their faces, they can make us pay for it!


I know we've been over this time and again, and I'm the first in line to prosecute Wall St., but to be fair, the bailout to which you refer cost the US taxpayers basically nothing. It was all loans that have been paid back with interest.

Trump is now in the process of removing all the new legislation that wasn't good enough to begin with, however, so I'm sure Wall St. is laughing at the US investor again.

Really? Who is going to pay the additional 10 Trillion that was added to the national debt because of it?
26   WineHorror   2017 Oct 30, 8:27am  

anon_1a7ec says
Every country has the government it deserves.

Bullshit. Once they have sufficient power, there is nothing the onion people can do about it.
27   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 30, 9:04am  

WineHorror says
Really? Who is going to pay the additional 10 Trillion that was added to the national debt because of it?


Can you detail that $10 Trillion and what it was spent on then please. Seeing as the GAO doesn't know about it.
28   anonymous   2017 Oct 30, 9:31am  

No one rules if no one obeys.
29   NuttBoxer   2017 Oct 30, 1:26pm  

joeyjojojunior says
The meltdown cost the taxpayers

How is being a taxpayer relevant to the crash? Everyone made the obvious connection with your statement because the bailout cost trillions in taxes.
30   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 30, 1:27pm  

NuttBoxer says
How is being a taxpayer relevant to the crash? Everyone made the obvious connection with your statement because the bailout cost trillions in taxes.


I'm still waiting for anyone to show me the trillions in taxes caused by the bailout. Can you?
31   NuttBoxer   2017 Oct 30, 1:34pm  

JJJ, this is why you got banned from my thread, and need to be banned more often. You stick your foot in your mouth making ridiculous claims, then completely derail the thread attempting to cover up your faux-pas.
32   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 30, 1:49pm  

NuttBoxer says
JJJ, this is why you got banned from my thread, and need to be banned more often. You stick your foot in your mouth making ridiculous claims, then completely derail the thread attempting to cover up your faux-pas.


All I ask is that you show me where I'm wrong. I know you like to ban people who dare to question your unsupported statements, but it's far more convincing to show something (anything) that supports your statement.

I've linked to the GAO report detailing the cost of the bailout. There is absolutely not any $10 Trillion cost in there.

I'm waiting for you to link or post ANYTHING that backs up your statement about $10T. Can you?
33   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 30, 4:05pm  

Sniper says
Here's the first $ 4.5 Trillion, who is paying that back? You? Or your kids?


Just a bit outside... Nice try though.

This is the assets of the Federal Reserve. No taxes were raised because of the Fed taking on troubled assets. The US debt was not increased because of the Federal Reserve taking on troubled assets.

Care to try again? Maybe you can show me a link where the bailout cost the US taxpayer $10T. I'm guessing we've heard the last of Nuttboxer on this thread.
34   anonymous   2017 Oct 30, 7:06pm  

Sniper says
joeyjojojunior says
I'm waiting for you to link or post ANYTHING that backs up your statement about $10T. Can you?


Here's the first $ 4.5 Trillion, who is paying that back? You? Or your kids?



Someone tell piggy that he posted a chart of assets, not debt.

Who's going to pay back federal reserve assets? The fed could literally throw all that paper into an incinerator with absolutely no ill effects or change to our economy.
35   anonymous   2017 Oct 30, 8:07pm  

Maybe the debt will be paid off by illegal immigrants, technology, a zero percent tax rate, or magic fairy dust, but the reality is that the US debt is increasing constantly, no one cares, and spending more money to reduce the debt will only lead to disaster.

Debt didn't work out too well for Rome, Germany, Japan, Greece, or Zimbabwe.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
36   MrMagic   2017 Oct 30, 8:23pm  

anon_7c0c9 says
he posted a chart of assets, not debt.


An asset held by one entity is a debt owed by someone else.
37   Strategist   2017 Oct 30, 8:44pm  

anon_121ac says
Maybe the debt will be paid off by illegal immigrants, technology, a zero percent tax rate, or magic fairy dust, but the reality is that the US debt is increasing constantly, no one cares, and spending more money to reduce the debt will only lead to disaster.

Debt didn't work out too well for Rome, Germany, Japan, Greece, or Zimbabwe.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


Relax, it's debt we can afford. The economy is growing too. If there was a real problem, wall street would not be at record highs.
38   Strategist   2017 Oct 30, 9:14pm  

oil says
Think.


I think you are nuts.
39   anonymous   2017 Oct 30, 9:21pm  

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
40   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 3:47am  

Sniper says
An asset held by one entity is a debt owed by someone else.


That is only the case with accounts receivables. The car that I own is an asset for me and is not a debt owed by anyone.

So, again, I ask--can you show any links or data that illustrate the $10Trillion that the bailout supposedly cost the US taxpayer.

Clearly Nuttboxer has run from this discussion rather than admit he was wrong. Will you do any better?
41   anonymous   2017 Oct 31, 4:26am  

The US is in debt because of welfare, wars, interest, and bailouts.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
42   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 9:20am  

Sniper says
Wrong again, if you have a loan on it, it's a asset on the books at the bank and a liability (debt) to you. Why am I not surprised you don't understand that. It only becomes a asset to you if it's paid for free and clear.


No, I'm not wrong. You think I don't understand what a loan is, you imbecile?

I don't have a loan. I own it outright.

Now, can we get to the part where you link to the $10T in taxes that the US taxpayer had to pay? Or the $10T that was added to the US debt due to the bailout?

So far you and Nuttboxer have shown nothing.
43   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 9:23am  

Sniper says

Reading comprehension issues again? What did I post?


No, I read it correctly. Like the part where you said I was wrong. Care to reconsider that?

Also, still waiting for you to provide anything showing the $10T cost of the bailout....
44   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 9:54am  

Sniper says
Why don't you understand that? Do you know what a Balance Sheet is?


lol--now you're just trying to distract and change the conversation. What in the world would make you think I don't understand that?

Have you found any support to show where the $10T got added to the debt? Or the tax increase of $10T?
45   NuttBoxer   2017 Oct 31, 10:27am  

NuttBoxer says
joeyjojojunior says
The meltdown cost the taxpayers

How is being a taxpayer relevant to the crash? Everyone made the obvious connection with your statement because the bailout cost trillions in taxes.


Still waiting on your response to the above...
46   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 10:53am  

NuttBoxer says


Still waiting on your response to the above...


Sorry--not sure I understand the question. I'm not trying to split hairs by saying taxpayers. I'm saying the bailout was almost cost neutral. As shown by the GAO accounting.

Now--the meltdown/crash cost plenty to the US economy. But the bailout is not the same as the meltdown.
47   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 12:16pm  

Sniper says
Just another day with the Troll.


Did you find the links and sources that show the $10T in additional debt yet?
48   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 12:29pm  

Sniper says
All the numbers you want, right here:


No, actually that is none of the numbers I want. I'm looking for you to show where the $10T cost of the bailout is coming from. That link does not answer that.
49   NuttBoxer   2017 Oct 31, 3:02pm  

joeyjojojunior says
NuttBoxer says
I disagree. They learned they can be as reckless as they want with other people's money, then when it blows up in their faces, they can make us pay for it!


I know we've been over this time and again, and I'm the first in line to prosecute Wall St., but to be fair, the bailout to which you refer cost the US taxpayers basically nothing. It was all loans that have been paid back with interest.


joeyjojojunior says
I'm saying the bailout was almost cost neutral. As shown by the GAO accounting.

Now--the meltdown/crash cost plenty to the US economy. But the bailout is not the same as the meltdown.


Just posting the above for reference. I see where the issue is here. You believe I was only talking about the bailout. Now whether I agree with your economics there or not is another issue, but my comment was in reference to the OP, which did not use your compartmentalization. Neither did I. I blame the financial elite for all of it, break it down or lump it all together, it matters not.

But you want to focus on the bailout, fine. Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?
50   anonymous   2017 Oct 31, 3:14pm  

NuttBoxer says
Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?


Maybe because if your system is ever increasing debt, nothing ever gets paid back? You don't live 200 years and the national debt has been increasing steadily since the 1960s so 60 years might as well be forever. I can accurately say for anyone currently alive, it has cost you nothing.
51   joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 31, 5:01pm  

NuttBoxer says
Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?


Actually the Fed returns almost all earnings to the US Government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/business/economy/fed-returns-77-billion-in-profits-to-treasury.html
But I agree that Wall St. and the big banks screwed over the US public enormously before the crash. Whether or not it could be proven in a court of law, the behavior was absolutely fraudulent and should have been punished. Unfortunately, we didn't learn our lesson and are going down the same road again, a decade later.
52   Strategist   2017 Nov 1, 6:57am  

anon_c1f03 says
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.


The uneducated most certainly do not understand money and banking. If they did, they wouldn't be on welfare.
53   Tenpoundbass   2017 Nov 1, 8:02am  

I say shave 75% off the top off every Real Estate parcel in America. Then raise the Fed interest rates to 6%, revisit the HW Bush(Now that we know what evil crooks they were and were the God Father to what we have now) S&L Loans regulation that killed personal saving accounts being paid.

I would rather see my bank account grow 20% YOY than my house. Less you expect your grand children to live in caves and fend for themselves.
54   joeyjojojunior   2017 Nov 1, 8:05am  

.anon_c1f03 says
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system


Exhibit A:

Tenpoundbass says
I say shave 75% off the top off every Real Estate parcel in America. Then raise the Fed interest rates to 6%, revisit the HW Bush(Now that we know what evil crooks they were and were the God Father to what we have now) S&L Loans regulation that killed personal saving accounts being paid.

I would rather see my bank account grow 20% YOY than my house. Less you expect your grand children to live in caves and fend for themselves

« First        Comments 15 - 54 of 73       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions