patrick.net

Strategist says

They will spend $40 billion+ developing the gas fields. They will pay us while developing them, and pay us when they start shipping the natural gas.

If Trump knew how to negotiate, he would have gotten them to buy more natural gas from US companies. Instead, he sold rights for Chinese to come extract our natural resources and send them back to China. Sounds like what we used to do with 3rd world countries. I wonder what Trump got out of it.

YesYNot says

Strategist says

They will spend $40 billion+ developing the gas fields. They will pay us while developing them, and pay us when they start shipping the natural gas.

If Trump knew how to negotiate, he would have gotten them to buy more natural gas from US companies. Instead, he sold rights for Chinese to come extract our natural resources and send them back to China.

Makes no difference. They ain't getting anything for free.

As usual, the devil is in the details, and the details have not been released. No one knows if it was a good deal, mediocre deal, or bad deal.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

YesYNot says

Yeah, approving the sale of rights to mine US energy resources to Russia is Treason. Selling rights to China to drill for energy in the US is a tangible benefit to the US. Makes total sense.

You should ask the Bushes, Clintons, and Obama that question. Their policy is: hand off high tech secrets and manufacturing processes to a growing power, while continuing to advance and encircle a declining power with as many nukes as us, driving them away from the West and closer to the rising (and actually in history) potential superpower.

As for national manufacturing, $1.6B new factory.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/04/news/economy/mazda-toyota-jobs-factory-trump/index.html

Why are you referencing that? That Trump made it happen? So every factory built under Obama was because he made it happen?
Major business decisions require long term planning. When do you think they started looking into building this plant? What was the corporate reasoning behind it? Why do you think Trump had anything to do with it going ahead? You’re crediting him with something that he has little to no influence over, most especially given he has currently implemented zero legislative measures that would have made any impact on this decision whatsoever.

Strategist says

YesYNot says

Strategist says

They will spend $40 billion+ developing the gas fields. They will pay us while developing them, and pay us when they start shipping the natural gas.

If Trump knew how to negotiate, he would have gotten them to buy more natural gas from US companies. Instead, he sold rights for Chinese to come extract our natural resources and send them back to China.

Makes no difference. They ain't getting anything for free.

Based on what? States fall over themselves to give away free shit to attract new business to their area.

So what happened to my post before that?

Strategist says

If Trump knew how to negotiate, he would have gotten them to buy more natural gas from US companies. Instead, he sold rights for Chinese to come extract our natural resources and send them back to China.

Makes no difference. They ain't getting anything for free.

YesYNot says

As usual, the devil is in the details, and the details have not been released. No one knows if it was a good deal, mediocre deal, or bad deal.

WTF. You claim Trump made a bad deal because he does not know how to negotiate. Then you claim no one knows if it's a good deal, or a bad deal.
Seems your goal is to blindly attack Trump, no matter what he does. If Obama made this same deal, you would be praising him, isn't it?
How about some political honesty, guys?

anon_d2af7 says

So what happened to my post before that?

If you're anonymous and you were insulting other users, well, then I deleted your comment.

And I will do it again. Over and over. Can't even remember how many snarky bitter comments from anon users I've deleted lately. :-)

The solution is to stop insulting the other users and contribute something productive to the conversation. If you please.

anon_d2af7 says

Makes no difference. They ain't getting anything for free.

Based on what? States fall over themselves to give away free shit to attract new business to their area.

That's called marketing. You get a free appetizer if you spend $100.

Sniper says

Strategist says

YesYNot says

As usual, the devil is in the details, and the details have not been released. No one knows if it was a good deal, mediocre deal, or bad deal.

WTF. You claim Trump made a bad deal because he does not know how to negotiate. Then you claim no one knows if it's a good deal, or a bad deal.
Seems your goal is to blindly attack Trump, no matter what he does. If Obama made this same deal, you would be praising him, isn't it?
How about some political honesty, guys?

It seems that's all he has. To blindly attack, without facts, anything Trump is trying to accomplish. It must be sad to hate your country so much you want it to burn to the ground.

If it wasn't for the weirdos, there would be no one to laugh at.

Strategist says

anon_d2af7 says

Makes no difference. They ain't getting anything for free.

Based on what? States fall over themselves to give away free shit to attract new business to their area.

That's called marketing. You get a free appetizer if you spend $100.

So they're getting something for free.

Patrick says

anon_d2af7 says

So what happened to my post before that?

If you're anonymous and you were insulting other users, well, then I deleted your comment.

And I will do it again. Over and over. Can't even remember how many snarky bitter comments from anon users I've deleted lately. :-)

The solution is to stop insulting the other users and contribute something productive to the conversation. If you please.

I wasn't insulting anyone. Go and look at the post again. It was a point about the length of time it would have taken to make a decision about building a car plant, the factors mitigating on that decision, and the lack of impact Trump would have had on that.

If you're going to delete posts just because they don't fall lapdog in line with your professed favouritism of Trump, then what's the point of having a forum at all? Why not post up the comment I made in this thread (that you chose to delete) and let everyone see in what way it supposedly was not up to the so very high standards of this site? It's laughable that you deleted that post.

Strategist says

If it wasn't for the weirdos, there would be no one to laugh at.

This is the kind of stupid crap that typically escalates into insults around here. I see that it was inspired by an attempt to cheer-lead CIC, who undoubtedly did not add anything of value to the thread in his ad hom comment.
Look, nobody knows if this is a good deal without the details. If they are overpaying for their mineral rights and there was no side deal to sweeten it for them, it could be a good deal. However, it is not a good deal for American workers for obvious reasons. But if China is underpaying it is definitely a bad deal.
In my initial comments, I made the point that it was bad for American workers, when I said that a good deal would have been to get China to allow American companies to extract the gas and just sell it to China. I also made the very valid point that this is much like the Uranium one deal that everybody loves to mis-characterize. Of course there is speculation in the absence of details. My speculation is based on what I know of Trump and his previous deals (e.g. Carrier). He often characterizes them much differently than they turn out. At least I had the honesty to admit that the devil is in the details. Nobody on team Trump has provided any evidence that it is a good deal. You and others just asserted that it was good. Now, you and CIC are denying that the judgement depends on the details (how much is being paid). That is bad enough without trying to laugh at others.
What did you think when we sold Smithfield farms to a Chinese company. This is actually a similar deal in that the Chinese will probably use American workers in America, but the Chinese company will take all of the profit and is doing this to ship products back to China. They will also treat those workers worse then an American company. China want to secure supplies of pork and LNG, and don't want to buy the product from American companies.

anon_d2af7 says

delete posts just because they don't fall lapdog in line with your professed favouritism of Trump

The hammer is biased.

Incivility appears to be in the eye of the beholder. And a biased beholder at that.

Look at the people in this thread celebrating. OP is a South American , Patrick, strategist, Goran....none of them actually produce anything to sell in trade. Lol yea you got a great deal here, lmao

YesYNot says

Strategist says

If it wasn't for the weirdos, there would be no one to laugh at.

This is the kind of stupid crap that typically escalates into insults around here. I see that it was inspired by an attempt to cheer-lead CIC, who undoubtedly did not add anything of value to the thread in his ad hom comment.

Relax. It's just the internet. You give some shit, you take some shit. Don't expect everyone to be the perfect English gentleman.

YesYNot says

Look, nobody knows if this is a good deal without the details.

Until then, the government gets the benefit of the doubt. Your premature complaints are a mile long.

errc says

Look at the people in this thread celebrating. OP is a South American , Patrick, strategist, Goran....none of them actually produce anything to sell in trade. Lol yea you got a great deal here, lmao

Keep your post focused on countering an argument not an individual. That way you can avoid having post deleted for personal attacks. Friendly reminder.

YesYNot says

China to invest in energy projects in the US. Sounds a bit like the Uranium deal you guys are so up in arms over.

Non sequitur.

YesYNot says

As usual, the devil is in the details, and the details have not been released.

Why do you so desperately want America to fail?

PCGyver says

What has Trump done to make you trust what he says is true?

MAGA!

PCGyver says

Just like Obama got the benefit of the doubt?

Yes! Just like that.

PCGyver says

I see so you just blindly trust him like people do with cult leaders.

Best cult in the world: AMERICA!

PCGyver says

Strategist says

Until then, the government gets the benefit of the doubt. Your premature complaints are a mile long.

Just like Obama got the benefit of the doubt?

I voted for him in 2012. And then I was sorry.

PCGyver says

What has Trump done to make you trust what he says is true?

He is keeping his promises.
Stock Market
Economy
Taxes
ISIS
Terrorism
N Korea

Strategist says

He is keeping his promises.
Stock Market
Economy
Taxes
ISIS
Terrorism
N Korea

What were his promises and what has he done? I take it that in your fevered imagination he defeated ISIS. Bizarre. And North Korea? You're trying to spin that as if he's done anything but stir up trouble? What impresses you most about the tax plan? The huge breaks it gives to the richest or the enormous amount it would add to the debt? As for the economy, seeing as he hasn't actually enacted any meaningful legislation, I'm not really sure what you think he has done. I guess when the stock market tanks as it inevitably will, that you'll be the first to blame Trump seeing as Presidents have such a massive influence over such things (at least according to you).

anon_c1934 says

What were his promises and what has he done? I take it that in your fevered imagination he defeated ISIS. Bizarre.

Trump contributed to their demise, while Obama contributed to their rise.

anon_c1934 says

And North Korea? You're trying to spin that as if he's done anything but stir up trouble?

He has them cornered. NK had Obama cornered.

anon_c1934 says

As for the economy, seeing as he hasn't actually enacted any meaningful legislation, I'm not really sure what you think he has done.

The confidence Trump created in the economy was enough to get it going.

anon_c1934 says

I guess when the stock market tanks as it inevitably will, that you'll be the first to blame Trump seeing as Presidents have such a massive influence over such things (at least according to you).

Stocks always tank every now and then, and eventually make new record highs. This is a Trump rally. No doubt about it.

Sniper says

Did he call them the JV Team and pull out troops who were fighting them?

Ha, ha. Who do you think defeated ISIS?

Sniper says

Have they nuked Guam yet?

So they were going to do that before, were they? So you think the fact that they haven't done that is down to Trump?

Sniper says

You mean the ones paying the bulk of the taxes NOW?

So you think the poorest should pay the bulk of the taxes, do you?

Sniper says

You mean the two back to back 3+% GDP quarters? You know, something Obama didn't do in 8 years.

America has averaged 3.3% since the end of WWII, so let's just say I'm not particularly impressed, and that's without touching on the actual role that Trump has played in it.

Sniper says

Yes, usually every 8 years or so, we're due. It's the NORMAL cycle. Your point?

Yes, cycles. Funny that. It would appear that Presidents don't really play much part in such things, do they?

PCGyver says

My point exactly. You didn't believe Obama so why should we believe Trump?

For the truth. That's all the reason you need.

anon_d2af7 says

I wasn't insulting anyone. Go and look at the post again. It was a point about the length of time it would have taken to make a decision about building a car plant, the factors mitigating on that decision, and the lack of impact Trump would have had on that.

That would be a fine comment. I did not delete anything remotely like that.

No 2012
I voted for McCain in 2008

rando says

anon_d2af7 says

I wasn't insulting anyone. Go and look at the post again. It was a point about the length of time it would have taken to make a decision about building a car plant, the factors mitigating on that decision, and the lack of impact Trump would have had on that.

That would be a fine comment. I did not delete anything remotely like that.

Neither did I. Was this comment posted in politics?

anon_3b28c says

Incivility appears to be in the eye of the beholder. And a biased beholder at that.

No it doesn’t.

Patrick has been clear about deleting personal attacks.

You are misrepresenting the situation.

errc says

Look at the people in this thread celebrating. OP is a South American , Patrick, strategist, Goran....none of them actually produce anything to sell in trade. Lol yea you got a great deal here, lmao

That's like saying "Nobody who doesn't have kids can be legitimately interested in Childhood Education."

We hired a guy who was supposed to put the banks in their place. Instead, we got the same kind of neoliberal low wage service jobs + mass immigration = prosperity bullshit.

Neoliberal Globalism has failed. We had the almost unprecedented explosion of 3 life changing technologies in two decades, and yet the standard of living of the average American did not improve. Housing/Rents rose astronomically, as did food and health insurance and education costs. Wages and living standards did not rise.

We had three "Railroads" invented in 2.5 decades and living standards are flat for most, even declining for the working class. For those administrering Higher Ed, for Landlords, and investors in IT stock things have been fantastic, they captured almost all the gains.

Something is very broken.

PS I'm a US Citizen, I voted.

Our Tremendous Trade Representative, Robert Lighthizer:

Da Nang, Vietnam – United States Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer today released the following statement in response to President Trump’s speech on trade between the United States and the Indo-Pacific region, at the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) CEO Summit:

“The President spoke loud and clear: the era of trade compromised by massive state intervention, subsidies, closed markets and mercantilism is ending. Free, fair and reciprocal trade that leads to market outcomes and greater prosperity is on the horizon.

“President Trump understands that too many nations talk about free trade abroad, only to shield their economies behind tariff and non-tariff barriers at home. The United States will no longer allow these actions to continue, and we are willing to use our economic leverage to pursue truly fair and balanced trade.

“I look forward to doing as the President instructed me and to pursue policies that will improve the lives of our workers, farmers and ranchers.”

https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/press-releases/2017/november/ustr-lighthizer-statement

Strategist says

anon_c1934 says

What were his promises and what has he done? I take it that in your fevered imagination he defeated ISIS. Bizarre.

Trump contributed to their demise, while Obama contributed to their rise.

Tnat's pure bullshit. ISIS was a product of bush, plain and simple. It's been well researched and documented time and time again. Wilful ignorance isn't the same as factual information. . ISIS was being set back steadily town by town before trump took office. The russians did a lot more to defeat isis than trump.So did the kurds who trump threw under a bus.

anon_40d46 says

Trump contributed to their demise, while Obama contributed to their rise.

Tnat's pure bullshit. ISIS was a product of bush, plain and simple. It's been well researched and documented time and time again. Wilful ignorance isn't the same as factual information. . ISIS was being set back steadily town by town before trump took office. The russians did a lot more to defeat isis than trump.So did the kurds who trump threw under a bus.

ISIS became a fucking Empire right before Obama's eyes. He did nothing but play politics. It was the Russians who finally decided to do something about ISIS. When Trump came in, he joined the Russians to finish them off.
All Obama did was set red lines, which simply got shifted every time they were crossed.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Exactly what I wanted

Yes, finally great minds such a Donald Trump and T-Lips will get to use their immense powers of reasoning to improve our economy by imposing country by country trade deals.

Don't we all know that what Donald wants the most, even more than he wants lower taxes for his friends is a few years of rampant inflation (yo know the kind where assets inflate far more than wages). SOme people didn't realize when Donald was talking about "so much winning" that he wasn't thinking about the little guy.

Sniper says

Don't let FACTS get in the way of your twisted narrative

Though apparently you are quite happy to do that.
Nuance really isn't your strong point, is it?
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/08/bush-clinton-play-blame-game-in-iraq/