patrick.net

And before you try to characterize my post as saying capitalism sucks and I'm in favor of communism--don't bother.

Capitalism and free markets are much preferred over state run economies. They're just not perfect. We can do better by understanding the limitations of free markets and capitalism and implementing policies that help to mitigate some of the undesired aspects of free markets.

anon_4e80d says

Did colleges suddenly figure out a better way to educate more people? No. Did doctors figure out a way to diagnose your illness without ordering 10K in tests to avoid being sued? No. Did pharmaceutical companies stop getting 10 year patents for slightly tweaking the formula for a drug that's been around for 50 years? No. Did Chrysler learn to make cars that don't suck? No.

What happens when you increase demand and don't do anything on the supply side? Price skyrockets, which is what we are seeing today under the terrible policies advocated by liberals

That is the biggest mish mosh of meaningless junk you have ever posted.

HappyGilmore says

Well, nobody is saying that Steve Jobs having more money than you makes you a serf. I'm glad to hear you are advocating for an economy that produces goods that everyone can afford. That's not what we have now, nor is it what a unregulated free market will produce.

There is no such thing as an unregulated free market, there never has been and there never will be. As soon as a market reaches the point where there are big players they start using the political system to hinder competition and enhance themselves. Always has been, always will be. Note the big league ultra rich libertarians never have a problem with subsidies for themselves or regulations that hinder competition while crying their eyes out about big government.

Large corporations are like small children and satellites. They need adult supervision or they wander off and get into trouble.

bob2356 says

There is no such thing as an unregulated free market, there never has been and there never will be.

Good points. Very true.

HappyGilmore says

Oh you mean in the industries with extremely inelastic demand curves? The industries that the free market does not handle well? Yes, I would advocate some governmental regulation of those industries.

My argument is flawed here. I was thinking of markets with barriers to entry. Still my point remains, if there are few constraints on entry into the market, inelastic demand does not require regulation. For instance, everybody needs to eat food. The demand curve for food is extremely inelastic. But since anybody can start a grocery store or a farm, food is cheap since when there is excess supply the price will always approach the cost of production in an efficient market.

I do agree that in industries where there are significant barriers to entry, and I would probably only limit this to ones with physical barriers unless you can think of a good counter example, you need regulation. For instance, there's only so many radio frequencies, so we need government to regulate who gets to use it. But even then, it's a terrible situation to be in, I think there was a huge spectrum reserved for ham radio up until a few years ago. Probably just doing 20 year lease spectrum auctions for whoever wants to bid would be the most efficient way to allocate.

To expand on my point about why medical and college costs are so high, I would argue that flawed government policies that try to grant greater access to services by aiding demand are the cause for 2 reasons. First, more money for demand + constant supply == higher cost. Economic 101. But supply isn't really constant in these cases. We have more doctors, hospitals, and colleges then ever. So the explanation is more complex I think.

I think another big reason for the spike in cost is because the government policies designed to help people afford these things also make people price insensitive. For instance, the government does not tax the portion of my income that I spend on health insurance through my company. If I recall correctly, I think my company pays 20K a year for my health insurance, in addition to all the money I contribute. If they didn't pay this, presumably I would receive it as income. But if I received it as income, it would be taxed at 35% (at least!) so it would really only be around 13K. So I prefer that my company buy health insurance for me.

But if that 20K was taxed either way, I might ask for the money in cash so I could shop around or even self insure my medical costs. I might decide to just buy a catastrophic policy and pay the rest out of pocket. If I'm paying out of pocket, then I become price sensitive. This would force providers to compete for my business, at least for non-emergency procedures, which would lower prices overall. (And a law passed requiring all medical prices be published and the same for everyone would go a long way too).

Same for college. When you're 18 and getting 50K in student loans, expecting some amazing career after you graduate, you probably aren't thinking about how long its going to take you to pay it off if you wind up like most Fem Studies majors waiting tables after graduation. If instead college loans were hard to come by because they could be defaulted on (another terrible government policy to not allow this). people might consider paying out of pocket, or just reading some books, or doing a career that doesn't require college (these still exist believe it or not!). In the case of loans, because students can default, lenders would probably give better rates for careers likely to be able to pay off the loan, which would encourage idiot young people to pick a better major, and there'd probably be discounts for good grades as well, forcing them to study.

Instead now you have a system where everybody thinks they have to go to college, and they think they can afford it too because of the loans! (not really.) Only they get there and find it's not for them and either flunk out or barely pass, then they have to flip burgers after having wasted 4-6 years of their life they could have been working in a field better suited for them, with the added fun of 50K+ in student loans they can never get rid of. Liberals are so filled with compassion aren't they!

anon_4e80d says

Same for college. When you're 18 and getting 50K in student loans, expecting some amazing career after you graduate, you probably aren't thinking about how long its going to take you to pay it off if you wind up like most Fem Studies majors waiting tables after graduation. If instead college loans were hard to come by because they could be defaulted on (another terrible government policy to not allow this). people might consider paying out of pocket, or just reading some books, or doing a career that doesn't require college (these still exist believe it or not!). In the case of loans, because students can default, lenders would probably give better rates for careers likely to be able to pay off the loan, which would encourage idiot young people to pick a better major, and there'd probably be discounts for good grades as well, forcing them to study.

Instead now you have a system where everybody thinks they have to go to college, and they think they can afford it too because of th...

You're making a bunch of contradictory arguments here. On the one hand you seem to be advocating for less government and more free choice, but in the next breath you are saying that people are too stupid to understand whether they need to go to college or not. Government isn't forcing anyone to go to college--they are just providing assistance to those who WANT to go to college. So that college is AVAILABLE to anyone. Hopefully you are not arguing that a college education should only be available to those people who got lucky enough to be born into a rich family. Equal opportunity for everyone to succeed. Not equal outcomes as is often misportrayed by conservative strawman arguments.

On the medical care-the argument that having health care drives up demand I find silly. I have never known anyone who enjoyed going to the Dr. Maybe hypochondriacs. But they go to the ER anyway if they don't have insurance. US healthcare is ridiculously expensive--many times more expensive than any other 1st world nation. And guess what--all those other countries have MORE government in their healthcare. Not less. I think there is a lesson to be learned there.

HappyGilmore says

I thought companies were going to invest in new jobs?

AT&T is giving out $1000 employee bonuses because of the new tax plan.

zzyzzx says

HappyGilmore says

I thought companies were going to invest in new jobs?

AT&T is giving out $1000 employee bonuses because of the new tax plan.

That's nice and all, but it's 0 new jobs.

anon_e144f says

Positive life choices like trump, the koch bro's, de Voss, etc., etc. who earned their money the old fashioned way. They inherited it.

Straw man. What about all of the millions of successful people, such as myself, who have earned the money they make through good decisions and hard work? You like to find the exceptions to justify your argument and make it fit your narrative. Anyone with $100 can invest money in the stock market. It's not reserved for the rich, so stop with the beta male arguments of "wo is me".

HappyGilmore says

What? Republican Presidents have spent more money by a WIDE margin than have Dems. The only difference is that Dems actually try to find a way to pay for the spending, whereas Republicans don't give a crap. They just run up the deficit.

I never made this about Republicans and Democrats, but you obviously have a boner for making this political vs about the issues. I'm an Independent. So you're saying we should cut spending? I'm all for that and hate when ANY party spends as much as they do. Cut government to the bone.

HappyGilmore says

One doesn't have to be poor to realize that the current level of inequality is bad for the economy. All one has to do is have read the smallest amount of history regarding the 1930s.

Until inequality gets so bad such that someone can't make good decisions, work hard and make a good living, your inequality argument means nothing. There is nothing stopping any able-bodied individual from making it in this country.

My comments may hurt and be personal, but I'm just being blunt and honest and they're relevant to the arguments you're making. It's a bitter pill, but it is what it is. If I started calling your wife ugly, that would be crossing the line.

HEYYOU says

"Say it with me: trickle-down economics doesn't work."

“Is it our goal to increase return to our shareholders and do we have an excess amount of capital? The answer to both is, yes,” Sloan told CNN Money. “So our expectation should be that we will continue to increase our dividend and our share buybacks next year and the year after that and the year after that.”

Trickle down works. Here is the proof:
AT&T just announced a $1,000 bonus for every single of it's 200,000 employees solely because of the tax cuts. That's $200 million of bonuses to the employees.
Welfare Queens in the USA receive more money than laborers in China, India, and Africa. The money to pay the lazy, useless, fat, welfare queens obviously cam from those who pay taxes. That is called trickle down.
Do you know the average wages in Socialist Venezuela is $28.00 per month? Let me tell you why. They have no trickle down, because they foolishly killed every goose that laid the golden egg.
I hope you learn something with this post, but I know you won't.

HappyGilmore says

just any guy says

What? Again, show me evidence that "purchasing power is constant". Money is NOT constant, so this Monopoly/fixed pie argument is bullshit. Our monetary system is debt-based and constantly grows, so it's now a matter of what YOU are going to do about getting more of it for yourself. You can sit there and complain like a bitch about your shitty situation, or you can do something about it, get retrained, etc. and go earn. Be a man.

No, it's 100% true.

If it was true, how do you account for the constantly increasing GDP?

just any guy says

HappyGilmore says

One doesn't have to be poor to realize that the current level of inequality is bad for the economy. All one has to do is have read the smallest amount of history regarding the 1930s.

Until inequality gets so bad such that someone can't make good decisions, work hard and make a good living, your inequality argument means nothing. There is nothing stopping any able-bodied individual from making it in this country.

Very True.

Sounds like Happy is following the Bernie Sanders "give me free shit and take it from the evil rich people" narrative so I don't have to put in any effort and work for it.

just any guy says

I never made this about Republicans and Democrats, but you obviously have a boner for making this political vs about the issues

Funny. Here's the post that I answered:

just any guy says

Somehow you on the Left feel it's justified to rob those who have worked their ass off, made good decisions, and been prudent about saving, to redistribute to everyone else. But then again, the ends justify the means, right? Now you can feel high and mighty talking with your Leftist friends about how moral and charitable you are voting for Socialists, sniffing each other's farts, and comparing the size of your manginas. I can somehow see women being Socialist in nature because they're delicate and nurturing beings. Men? It's a disgrace to our gender. Grow some balls.

Sure seems to be a bit political in nature.

just any guy says

I'm an Independent. So you're saying we should cut spending? I'm all for that and hate when ANY party spends as much as they do. Cut government to the bone.

I'm for balancing the budget. Generate as much revenue as you spend. But sure--I'm for reducing spending in some areas. Cut the defense budget by a ton. Cut corporate welfare. Cut healthcare spending by modeling after any of the successful systems run in the 1st world with much lower spending and better outcomes.

just any guy says

Until inequality gets so bad such that someone can't make good decisions, work hard and make a good living, your inequality argument means nothing. There is nothing stopping any able-bodied individual from making it in this country.

My comments may hurt and be personal, but I'm just being blunt and honest and they're relevant to the arguments you're making. It's a bitter pill, but it is what it is. If I started calling your wife ugly, that would be crossing the line.

Whether you're crossing the line is up to the moderator and lucky for you, he's an extremely biased Trumpkin so he only zaps posts from people who criticize his Messiah.

But you're wrong. Inequality has huge effects on the economy as I have already showed you. Look at velocity of money. Look at interest rates. The data is right in front of your face.

Strategist says

It's not making sense. Trust me on that.

lol--no thanks. I've read your posting history. It appears that facts sometimes don't make sense to you.

HappyGilmore says

That's nice and all, but it's 0 new jobs.

It's probably more like $550 after deductions, but it's better then nothing. Considering how stingy AT&T is with it salaries, this is surprising. I expect to see this bonus on my Jan 6th pay stub.

Strategist says

If it was true, how do you account for the constantly increasing GDP?

Why don't you give us a breakdown of your understanding of how increasing GDP works if you believe this?

HappyGilmore says

just any guy says

I never made this about Republicans and Democrats, but you obviously have a boner for making this political vs about the issues

Funny. Here's the post that I answered:

just any guy says

Somehow you on the Left feel it's justified to rob those who have worked their ass off, made good decisions, and been prudent about saving, to redistribute to everyone else. Now you can feel high and mighty talking with your Leftist friends about how moral and charitable you are voting for Socialists, sniffing each other's farts, and comparing the size of your manginas. I can somehow see women being Socialist in nature because they're delicate and nurturing beings. Men? It's a disgrace to our gender. Grow some balls.

Sure seems to be a bit political in nature.

I said "Left", which is an ideology not a political party. You said Republicans and Democrats, which are political parties. There is a distinct difference.

just any guy says

said "Left", which is an ideology not a political party. You said Republicans and Democrats, which are political parties. There is a distinct difference.

Really? You also included this in that post:

just any guy says

you obviously have a boner for making this political vs about the issues

The one who made this political is you talking about the Left and Socialists. Left is a political ideology. Socialism is political party.

HappyGilmore says

Socialism is political party.

Wrong again.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/socialis/
Read the first sentence. Socialism was always an ideology before some idiots decided to create a "socialist" political party.

just any guy says

Wrong again.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/socialis/
Read the first sentence. Socialism was always an ideology before some idiots decided to create a "socialist" political party.

Good, so we're in agreement that you were the first to bring up politics and political leanings.

HappyGilmore says

But you're wrong. Inequality has huge effects on the economy as I have already showed you. Look at velocity of money. Look at interest rates. The data is right in front of your face.

So what? Stop being a whiner. Interest rates are low and I'm making more money than ever.

HappyGilmore says

Good, so we're in agreement that you were the first to bring up politics and political leanings.

Is this your bitchy way of admitting you're wrong by deflecting? Oh, Merry Christmas.

HappyGilmore says

But you're wrong. Inequality has huge effects on the economy as I have already showed you. Look at velocity of money. Look at interest rates. The data is right in front of your face.

Everything is looking good. If that is caused by inequality, we should've more of it.

I pocketed my windfall, or my windfall is in the pocket.

Got a Schecter Ultra VI Baritone on the way, thanks Trump.

just any guy says

So what? Stop being a whiner. Interest rates are low and I'm making more money than ever.

Yep, in other words "got mine, eff you". It's the Republican platform.

Congrats. Enjoy it while you can.

Strategist says

Everything is looking good. If that is caused by inequality, we should've more of it.

Things do look good when you only take a cursory snapshot at the surface. I encourage you to look a bit deeper.

HappyGilmore says

Yep, in other words "got mine, eff you".

In other words, "you got some and I don't, so I vote to get some of yours". The slogan of pussies who can't earn.

HappyGilmore says

Strategist says

Everything is looking good. If that is caused by inequality, we should've more of it.

Things do look good when you only take a cursory snapshot at the surface. I encourage you to look a bit deeper.

I just did. Things are even better than I first thought.

just any guy says

In other words, "you got some and I don't, so I vote to get some of yours". The slogan of pussies who can't earn.

It's always amusing when Republican's post on here. None can believe that there are others who put the good of society above their own personal greed and selfishness. Sad.

HappyGilmore says

None can believe that there are others who put the good of society above their own personal greed and selfishness.

Like Pelosi, Schumer, Hillary, Warren, Feinstein, Waters do??

Baaaahhhhhhwwaaaaaa......

HappyGilmore says

just any guy says

In other words, "you got some and I don't, so I vote to get some of yours". The slogan of pussies who can't earn.

It's always amusing when Republican's post on here. None can believe that there are others who put the good of society above their own personal greed and selfishness. Sad.

There you go with the politics again. I have an assignment for you. Look up the word "charity". It actually means you can give to others without being forced to. I know it's a repulsive concept for you on the Left, but it might actually improve your life. But the kicker is, you gotta be a man and earn, and you gotta be willing to share without force. Good luck!

just any guy says

There you go with the politics again. I have an assignment for you. Look up the word "charity". It actually means you can give to others without being forced to. I know it's a repulsive concept for you on the Left, but it might actually improve your life. But the kicker is, you gotta be a man and earn, and you gotta be willing to share without force. Good luck!

Unfortunately, because most Republican's think like you do, charity isn't nearly enough.

just any guy says

HappyGilmore says

Yep, in other words "got mine, eff you".

In other words, "you got some and I don't, so I vote to get some of yours". The slogan of pussies who can't earn.

You got some because you deserved it. You worked for it, you saved it up, you sacrificed for it. Now, those who did nothing you did, want it.
------------
Dear HappyGilmore,
Did you miss what Margaret Thatcher said about socialism? How happy are the Venezuelans who have the same idea as you do?

Strategist says

Dear HappyGilmore,
Did you miss what Margaret Thatcher said about socialism? How happy are the Venezuelans who have the same idea as you do?

Dear Strategist--

When have I ever posted anything favorable about Socialism? In fact, I believe I've posted the exact opposite--state owned and centrally planned industry is less desirable than market driven capitalism. Best is a well regulated market that covers up some of the inherent flaws of a free market. And that is what I advocate. A similar tax plan as what the US had in the 1950s. Rewarding labor over capital.

HappyGilmore says

Strategist says

Dear HappyGilmore,
Did you miss what Margaret Thatcher said about socialism? How happy are the Venezuelans who have the same idea as you do?

Dear Strategist--

When have I ever posted anything favorable about Socialism? In fact, I believe I've posted the exact opposite--state owned and centrally planned industry is less desirable than market driven capitalism. Best is a well regulated market that covers up some of the inherent flaws of a free market. And that is what I advocate.

I actually agree with you. There is no perfect economic system. We can take the best out there, and regulate the negatives. The best is a capitalist system that produces a lot of wealth that can be taxed to help the disadvantaged, by providing assistance and education so that they too may become contributors to society down the road. The problem is, we give too much to bums who can, but have no intention of contributing anything to society. That is a needless drain on society.
Lets get rid of those bums. Are you with me?

HappyGilmore says

Unfortunately, because most Republican's think like you do, charity isn't nearly enough.

Actually, it's because most Democrats think like you do, charity isn't nearly enough. It's never enough for pussies who can't earn on their own. As far as giving to charity goes, do your research first ya "bleeding heart tightwad", cuz that's the title of this New York Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html
Truth hurts, but you'll still figure out a way to make things fit your narrative.

I got the AT&T bonus as of December 29th. Wish they would have paid it out this year instead though.