patrick.net

mell says

errc says

mell says

Damning evidence for failed leftoid policies.

You have any evidence for any successful Right Wing policies?

Wrt to this topic the conservative approach is more successful. There are ample failures on the right as well like the war on drugs. But that's because personal responsibility is always the most successful policy, be it welfare or drugs.

Everyone knows that the Conservative War on Drugs is the biggest failure in the history of failures.

So why, with right wingers having absolute control over the government, are #MAGA folk not putting any pressure on them to right this obvious wrong?

errc says

You have any evidence for any successful Right Wing policies?

I don't know about 'right wing' policies, but the ones I listed worked nearly perfectly with over 50 years of data to back it up.

According to the Brookings Institute (left leaning research institution), if you simply do these 3 things:


1. Finish high school.
2. Get a job.
3. Get married before children.

... your chances of escaping generational poverty are sky high. Not just escaping poverty, but entering middle to upper middle class.

errc says

mell says

errc says

mell says

Damning evidence for failed leftoid policies.

You have any evidence for any successful Right Wing policies?

Wrt to this topic the conservative approach is more successful. There are ample failures on the right as well like the war on drugs. But that's because personal responsibility is always the most successful policy, be it welfare or drugs.

Everyone knows that the Conservative War on Drugs is the biggest failure in the history of failures.

So why, with right wingers having absolute control over the government, are #MAGA folk not putting any pressure on them to right this obvious wrong?

A lot of the MAGA crowd are right-wing and believe in the war on drugs, they are not Libertarian wrt this. Keep in mind that the Dem administrations haven't achieved much in ending the war on drugs either and they had ample time to do so during their reigns. The answer is that they feared for their incumbent seats as this is naturally a dicey topic for families, loaded with fears and concerns that would need to be addressed. Lawmakers even want to take one of the most successful painkillers from the market or severely restrict it just because patients aren't responsible and get addicted to it. One of the biggest dragons to slay for politicians is the war on drugs with lots of money and corruption involved interested to keep it going.

mell says

A lot of the MAGA crowd are right-wing and believe in the war on drugs, they are not Libertarian wrt this. Keep in mind that the Dem administrations haven't achieved much in ending the war on drugs either and they had ample time to do so during their reigns. The answer is that they feared for their incumbent seats as this is naturally a dicey topic for families, loaded with fears and concerns that would need to be addressed. Lawmakers even want to take one of the most successful painkillers from the market or severely restrict it just because patients aren't responsible and get addicted to it. One of the biggest dragons to slay for politicians is the war on drugs with lots of money and corruption involved interested to keep it going.

DEA for one.

Anyone notice the rate of increase in the white mothers having kids out of wedlock in the graphic? Appears to be growing quicker than blacks, especially since 1995. Didn't dig into the data, but looks like it was around 5% in '65 and is now around 30%. I don't know what it means, but it's interesting. While the black percentage overall is unacceptable, the problem seems to have leveled off I guess. Hopefully white chicks can put the brakes on this trend.

WookieMan says

Anyone notice the rate of increase in the white mothers having kids out of wedlock in the graphic? Appears to be growing quicker than blacks, especially since 1995. Didn't dig into the data, but looks like it was around 5% in '65 and is now around 30%. I don't know what it means, but it's interesting. While the black percentage overall is unacceptable, the problem seems to have leveled off I guess. Hopefully white chicks can put the brakes on this trend.

Direct consequence of the influence of feminism and cultural-marxism. Detrimental to society, that's why whites have done worse than black in recent years wrt changes in age of death, substance/SSRI abuse etc.

What?? Where do you get this shit? And yes, we white chicks need to step up and show our colored sisters how it's properly done. No babies unless you have a dedicated sugar daddy!

anon_58ed9 says

You forgot no abortion and no money to pay for the non aborted fetus to their 18th birthday.

Maybe your mom should see if getting a 76th trimester abortion is still an option. Her body her choice!

Jim Crow ended three Generations ago and didn't exist in 3/4 of the nation. We have literally millions of hobags born in the Bronx in the 1950s, who had a ho bag bastard in the 1970s, gave birth to another ho bag in the 1990s, all living their entire adult lives (or their entire lives, period) on Welfare and never employed more than extremely short periods.

They have no job but they don't sit on their kids to learn.

In the meantime, monoglot Vietnamese or Cambodians came in the 70s, worked two shitty menial jobs, while sitting on their kids who were 3 when they arrived in Long Beach by the actual slow boat to Asia, who get 1500 SAT scores and make 6 figures as MIT Grads, even though their parents are functionally unable to speak English beyond "I mop Floor One! Clean Now."

But a set of jobless hobags can't produce one HS Graduate in 3 generations despite having a full time, jobless parent.

Another problem with the "Generic PoMo NewLeft Nonsense" Cartoon is that most Whites are descended from people who never got either Free Land nor owned a single slave.

Rocco Vincenti or Patrick O'Halloran who came to New York in 1920 or 1880 never owned a slave and never got 40 free acres. Instead they did 72 hours in a steel mill or shoe factory where they lost multiple fingers. For that matter, neither did Jimmy Ray Jackson the white sharecropper. Today, the decadent and disgusting bastardized Marxism PoMo retards pretend they all came by their wealth on the backs of the Negroes.

Feux Follets says

We talking fly over country now or the citrus growing region of Central Florida ? Don't think this is racially specific unless you are trying to make it so.

Could be, there are plenty of uneducated Whites. Mary Sue is also going to an unwed Mother's Home, just in Belle Glade instead of West Palm Beach where LaShaniqua is going. Both are being force fed the pill and have a curfew.

Feux Follets says

Stereotype casting at it's finest and who said racist bullshit is dead in this country? You go boy...

Just the old saw about a laundryman's son that became a respected Board Certified Surgeon to counter all of NPR's bullshit about why some DACA kid who is a cashier at COSTCO and whose mother received AFDC and Cash Assistance and HUD while he was a child can't be deported or the economy will collapse.

Feux Follets says

I know, I know - there is no racism in America, it's only Black against White racism now

I guess "racism" only had a huge effect on blacks because the children of poor, immigrant, non-english speaking Asians are now beating whites when it comes to median salaries in the United States.

How did that happen?

Goran_K says

Since the Moynihan report

I think it's spelled MULIGNAN.

White privilege is an idea crafted so black losers can feel better about themselves for achieving nothing in their worthless lives. You want to talk privilege? Talk about the wealthy elite who keep convincing you to vote Democrat, while importing poor migrants by the shipload to depress wages for jobs you may be able to get, while raising your rent every year just because.

Goran_K says

I guess "racism" only had a huge effect on blacks because the children of poor, immigrant, non-english speaking Asians are now beating whites when it comes to median salaries in the United States.

How did that happen?

White privilege. Racism. Sexism. Homophobia. Islamophobia. Fat-shaming.
Did I forget anything?

Goran_K says

1. Finish high school.
2. Get a job.
3. Get married before children.

How about FREE! contraceptives to anyone over age of 16? And make them mandatory if person is on welfare. But that will not fly with JESUS/MUHAMMAD crowd very well.

Contraception is just fine with the majority of the Jesus crowd. In fact, it’s preferred over the more liberal method of killing ones fetus in utero. Overall, I’d venture to say that preventing a pregnancy from beginning is more humane than murdering the result of one.

Goran_K says

This is more than double what it was BEFORE LBJ launched his initiative. It literally made the problem TWICE as bad as before.

That's awful black single births are up 100%. Good thing white single births are only up 600%.

Quigley says

Contraception is just fine with the majority of the Jesus crowd.

Not all of them - Catholics are against, for example. Most of JESUS crowd will also be against contraceptives for 16 yr olds, ignoring fact that humans become sexually active even earlier, and that accidental pregnancies are probably more likely for teens. And religious people are, in general, in denial of reality - "abstinence before marriage" idea is pushed by them, completely ignoring the realities of human sexuality.
I have not seen any enthusiasm from "fiscal conservatives" about FREE part of free contraceptives as well, although in a long run, it would save a lot of money spent on incarceration.

Goran_K says

I guess "racism" only had a huge effect on blacks because the children of poor, immigrant, non-english speaking Asians are now beating whites when it comes to median salaries in the United States.

Or the explicitly Racist policies of Harvard, Princeton, etc. Because given SAT scores, there's no way they could have so few Asians except by deliberate deselection of them on purpose. And that's just the Asians that are US Citizens, not international applicants.

anon_23b8e says

That's awful black single births are up 100%. Good thing white single births are only up 600%.

There are a lot of white Democrat welfare dependent people too. But LBJ's program specifically targeted blacks, lefty whites got hooked on the government juice over time though, I won't deny that.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Or the explicitly Racist policies of Harvard, Princeton, etc. Because given SAT scores, there's no way they could have so few Asians except by deliberate deselection of them on purpose. And that's just the Asians that are US Citizens, not international applicants.

Yeah. It's just so confusing how asians succeeded where the black community could not considering blacks had these advantages.

- Spoke English natively
- Targeted grant and scholarship funding for "blacks" far outpaces those same programs for asians
- Smaller social circle
- Less representation at the local, state, and federal government.
- Benefited from affirmative action (as you pointed out affirmative action programs actually hurt asians)

Maybe it's not an opportunity problem, but something else.

drB6 says

Not all of them - Catholics are against, for example. Most of JESUS crowd will also be against contraceptives for 16 yr olds, ignoring fact that humans become sexually active even earlier, and that accidental pregnancies are probably more likely for teens. And religious people are, in general, in denial of reality - "abstinence before marriage" idea is pushed by them, completely ignoring the realities of human sexuality.
I have not seen any enthusiasm from "fiscal conservatives" about FREE part of free contraceptives as well, although in a long run, it would save a lot of money spent on incarceration.

A box of condoms is $2.94 at walmart. Maybe if you can't scrounge up $2.94 to have a LOT of sex, you shouldn't be having sex.

Contraceptive injection will work for months and they can screw around as much as they want, and anywhere they want, and is more effective with respect to everything other than STD prevention. Sex education is also needed and as far as I know, it is often shouted down by religious nuts. "Perhaps they should not have sex" we can agree on, but that will not happen, can not be legislated, and can not be controlled.

Considering most whites in this country arrived decades after the end of slavery and did not receive any free land, the author of the political cartoon you posted is either intentionally lying or unbelievably clueless. Or perhaps you think that Italian and Irish immigrants had that free white priviledge 1870 to 1930.

Oh, and also explain the success of Asians in the US.

Feux Follets says

In summary - all that minorities in inner city ghettos have to do to resolve their situation is to do as follows:

1. Vote GOP**

2. Graduate High School**

3. Get a Job**

4. Get Married**

5. Have Kids After Getting Married**

** required for safe passage to Middle Class America. (this is much much easier if you are white - a lot of things will get overlooked with a wink and a nod)

Anyone noticed those good paying jobs with benefits that would allow a high school graduate to work their way into supposed "Middle Class" status (I call it debt for life) are few and far between anymore and the ones that remain are disappearing as well.

And then there is this: (I know, I know - there is no racism in America, it's only Black against White racism now)

drB6 says

Contraceptive injection will work for months and they can screw around as much as they want, and anywhere they want, and is more effective with respect to everything other than STD prevention. Sex education is also needed and as far as I know, it is often shouted down by religious nuts. "Perhaps they should not have sex" we can agree on, but that will not happen, can not be legislated, and can not be controlled.

That's cruel joke. It cannot be controlled? So how do Asian families control it? They have an exceedingly low single parent rate. Let's not even talk about race, let's talk about the middle to upper class block of people who do not send themselves into poverty by having kids they can't afford.

Of fucking course it can be controlled.

What your statement is really saying is that poor inner city blacks are uneducated monkeys who can't control their base urges or afford a $3 box of condoms, at least not like middle to upper class blacks, whites, indians, who don't tax the welfare system and have too many kids.

If that's what you're saying, then fine. But now you're also suggesting we socialize the cost of their bad choices.

What does the taxpayer get back? Only the assurance that MAYBE these poor inner city blacks won't have kids that eventually become criminals and tax the system even more? How about we get something back that's actually tangible. If you get on an entitlement program, you have to satisfy certain criteria, let's call them goals. If you do not meet these goals, then you lose the social safety net and have to deal with the consequences of your choices. You know, like normal people.

Why can't we do that? What incentive do poor blacks have to get better? I put forth that there is no true incentive since the size of the welfare state has not only grown, but the percentage of blacks who are now dependent on it has sky rocketed in the past 5 decades. So something is obviously not working.

the idea that affirmative action even helps underpriveledged African Americans is laughable. Meanwhile, I teach in one of the richest towns in NJ. The blacks there are already part of the upper middle class. They instantly get accepted to schools like Princeton and Columbia. So people that have already assimilated get a free ticket to success. Meanwhile, the poor kids 2 towns over get no benefit.

Michael Jordan's kids will benefit from affirmative action before anyone that has the deck stacked against them ever will.

Goran_K says

But now you're also suggesting we socialize the cost of their bad choices.

We are socializing bad choices now, only it costs much more than my suggestion. Everything that has been done in last 50 years has made things worse, so perhaps something has to be changed. I suggest one thing that can be changed and is relatively cheap. "If you get on an entitlement program, you have to satisfy certain criteria, let's call them goals. If you do not meet these goals, then you lose the social safety net and have to deal with the consequences of your choices" - that is all fine and logical, but it likely will never happen. Even if it does happen, what will you do with kids born out of wedlock who are in families/single parent households that "have lost safety net"? Should they starve? Should state take them away? I do not know answers other than trying to decrease number of unplanned pregnancies.

All of this applies not only to black inner city kids, it applies also to many whites as well. The graph above shows that whites have similar and much faster increasing problems.

CovfefeButDeadly says

Considering most whites in this country arrived decades after the end of slavery and did not receive any free land, the author of the political cartoon you posted is either intentionally lying or unbelievably clueless.

Most white families in this country have had more than 3 generations to build wealth and knowledge. That wealth and knowledge should have been passed down. While my great grandparents were running businesses, most black people were decades away from being able to drink at the same water fountain as them. It's no surprise that black families are doing worse on average, and it could have a lot to do with historic inequality. It amazes me that this isn't somewhat obvious to people. True, there are individual white people who were not given much by their parents and made something of themselves. Same goes for black people. But the average black 30 yr old was raised with less than the average 30 yr old white person. They had worse schools, lower financial resources, and parents with lower education. One should expect that it would take many generations to wipe out the effect of Jim Crow.

drB6 says

that is all fine and logical, but it likely will never happen. Even if it does happen, what will you do with kids born out of wedlock who are in families/single parent households that "have lost safety net"? Should they starve? Should state take them away? I do not know answers other than trying to decrease number of unplanned pregnancies.

Why won't changes happen? That seems like you're saying society should just accept the cost of increasing and ineffective welfare entitlement programs. Why can't there be changes to the current system?

No one is saying "let kids starve", but how about a prison or work camp sentence for not following through until you pay back a certain amount of money via labor? I've seen teenage girls on freeways in California picking up garbage for repeated truancy. Why not for welfare queens who won't improve their situations?

anon_61c8a says

Most white families in this country have had more than 3 generations to build wealth and knowledge. That wealth and knowledge should have been passed down. While my great grandparents were running businesses, most black people were decades away from being able to drink at the same water fountain as them. It's no surprise that black families are doing worse on average, and it could have a lot to do with historic inequality. It amazes me that this isn't somewhat obvious to people. True, there are individual white people who were not given much by their parents and made something of themselves. Same goes for black people. But the average black 30 yr old was raised with less than the average 30 yr old white person. They had worse schools, lower financial resources, and parents with lower education. One should expect that it would take many generations to wipe out the effect of Jim Crow.

Asian families come into the United States all the time with no passed down wealth, no support system, and no solid grasp of English most of the time.

Why are they able to succeed where American born inner city blacks cannot?

Pretty much none of the white kids I grew up with had families who could give them ANYTHING! Anything beyond a basic education, three meals, and a part in the daily chores that is. Yet, as I’ve reconnected with them via Facebook, I’m finding success story after success story. Some haven’t succeeded, but the far greater portion who started life with nothing but a decent work ethic have done very well for themselves as they enter middle age. This group includes one black woman, half a dozen Latino people, and a couple asians. These especially have succeeded. This tells me that culture is the defining measure of success. Raise a kid right and they will probably do just fine. They might make some mistakes, hit some snags, and even fuck around for a bit, but the cultural indoctrination will pay off in the long run and they’ll find their way.

ThreeBays says

The rate of child birth among unmarried black women has declined significantly since 1965, all while the rate increased for white women. This graph counters the idea that more black women are having babies out of wed-lock to gain welfare than before.

That conclusion makes no sense. Birth rates for ALL minority households are down since the 1960s. Not just blacks.



This makes sense since as countries industrialize and become less agrarian, people have less kids as "labor", and have the amount of kids they want or can afford. The fact that they had 5 kids on the farm with a father around, and only 2 kids in the inner city as a single mother doesn't contradict anything I've presented.

Your graph does nothing to contradict the fact that a greater percentage of those black families that do end up having kids (whether it's 1 or 5) are doing so as single parent households. At least compared to asians, east indians, and even hispanics. In fact your graph puts a more succinct point on it, as black families have left their farms and joined the inner city core, they became more dependent on social services to survive. It's not a mistake that all the major inner cities are dominated by Democrat politicians.

Feux Follets says

What about welfare kings, they also exist and come in a variety of skin tones and live in assorted urban and suburban communities all over the country.

It's MUCH harder to qualify for Welfare if you're a male, you basically need a helluva medical paper trail.

Whereas a female can just have unprotected sex once. "You have to give me free shit, because I'm a mom now!"

Another great idea: You can't file for a no-fault divorce unless you can prove you won't qualify for AFDC/HUD Subsidies if you go ahead with it. Poverty programs should be for stuff (at least somewhat) beyond your control like job loss, permanent injury, etc.

Single and Divorced Mothers are the #1 by far, recipients of Social Programs. But more importantly, it's a statistical fact that they are strongly associated with bad outcomes for children, impoverishment generally, and high crime. Kids should be our #1 Concern.

Adults can grin and bear it, Kids shouldn't be put in worse situations because the parents "Just aren't happy anymore"

State Aid should also "Trickle Away" over time rather than be removed all at once if somebody on welfare gets a job.

ThreeBays says

Right, but non-marital births for blacks were already high in 1965 -- very high relatively speaking.

I never argued otherwise, but 27% in 1965 vs 76% in 2014 is nearly a three fold jump. That's clearly due to the welfare state.

CovfefeButDeadly says

Considering most whites in this country arrived decades after the end of slavery and did not receive any free land, the author of the political cartoon you posted is either intentionally lying or unbelievably clueless. Or perhaps you think that Italian and Irish immigrants had that free white priviledge 1870 to 1930.

Oh, and also explain the success of Asians in the US.

I have to agree with this. None of my ancestors had anything to do with slavery, and they definitely did not get free land, free labor, or free anything else in spite of being very poor. No one did any favors for them because they were white. They weren't even considered properly white until my parents' generation. They were Irish, Polish, and Jewish, and there were ethnic jokes about all of them. "An Irishman, a Polack, and a Jew go into a bar..." I don't see much of a difference between myself and recent Asian immigrants, who also don't get any favors.

The whole "white privilege" lie needs to be refuted with the truth. It's OK to be white.

Why is the graph of single mothers by race and INCOME missing? No one is fessing up to how many poor white trash babies are born to single mothers.

“White privilege” is an excuse lazy minorities use to justify their lack of accomplishment in life.

The senior analysts I worked with who were black or Cuban and making $275,000 salaries never complained about white privilege. I wonder why.

bob2356 says

No one is fessing up to how many poor white trash babies are born to single mothers.

White out-of-wedlock births to white women are around 40% today, less than the 70% black but a disaster compared to high single, low double digits of 55 years ago.

bob2356 says

white trash babies

The even sadder part of it is that many, maybe even the majority, aren't born to what would be called lower income, uneducated people but rather middle and upper income, educated people. What happened about 45 years ago was that behaviors that once were confined to the lower classes began to be taken on by the more upper class, upper income people.