invite response« First « Previous Comments 17 - 47 of 47 Search these comments
17
zzyzzx
2018 Mar 15, 7:32am
zzyzzx
2018 Mar 15, 7:32am
Exactly why are you expecting people to essentially pay for Reddit? Even if Reddit tried to charge $5/month, people would flee it like mad.
18
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 10:06am
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 10:06am
What about scraping the jobs pages of all 500 companies in the S&P 500? Would graphs of open job counts be valuable enough to investors for them to pay some small subscription fee?
This is something I'm pretty sure I could do, just not sure about the demand side.
I suppose that if increasing open jobs predicts rising stock price, the information would be valuable enough that I could use it myself. But it would take like a year to even begin to see the correlation.
This is something I'm pretty sure I could do, just not sure about the demand side.
I suppose that if increasing open jobs predicts rising stock price, the information would be valuable enough that I could use it myself. But it would take like a year to even begin to see the correlation.
19
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 15, 10:19am
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 15, 10:19am
zzyzzx says
Something like subscribers get an ad free experience, posting privileges, 3x upvotes or whatever.
Exactly why are you expecting people to essentially pay for Reddit? Even if Reddit tried to charge $5/month, people would flee it like mad.
Something like subscribers get an ad free experience, posting privileges, 3x upvotes or whatever.
20
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 10:43am
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 10:43am
I have decided on the following plan and I'm going to stick with it for one year, until March 15th, 2019:
* sell $5.46/month subscriptions to my housing email newsletter once again; 10 to 20 newslinks will come out on Mon, Wed, Fri; subscribers have higher patrick.net privileges; newsletter links each have a link back to the post on patrick.net where they can discuss the article
* sell my Housing Trap book on the site: https://www.amazon.com/Housing-Trap-Buyers-Captured-Yourself/dp/1479156213 and maybe a free copy with a year subscription
* take ads from stock brokers and other parties that are not trying to fuck over young families with mortgage debt; no realtors at all
* sell snarky swag about the housing market: bumper stickers, cups, etc, which is also viral advertising
* accept donations from those who like the message
So that's five possible revenue streams, and I definitely know what I'm doing from long experience. The big question is whether I can get enough subscribers to live from it.
* sell $5.46/month subscriptions to my housing email newsletter once again; 10 to 20 newslinks will come out on Mon, Wed, Fri; subscribers have higher patrick.net privileges; newsletter links each have a link back to the post on patrick.net where they can discuss the article
* sell my Housing Trap book on the site: https://www.amazon.com/Housing-Trap-Buyers-Captured-Yourself/dp/1479156213 and maybe a free copy with a year subscription
* take ads from stock brokers and other parties that are not trying to fuck over young families with mortgage debt; no realtors at all
* sell snarky swag about the housing market: bumper stickers, cups, etc, which is also viral advertising
* accept donations from those who like the message
So that's five possible revenue streams, and I definitely know what I'm doing from long experience. The big question is whether I can get enough subscribers to live from it.
22
komputodo
2018 Mar 15, 11:38am
komputodo
2018 Mar 15, 11:38am
Patrick says
Highway rest stop glory hole? Sorry Patrick, I had to say it. The set up was too good to pass up.
What kind of service do you think people would be willing to pay $5.46 per month for?
Highway rest stop glory hole? Sorry Patrick, I had to say it. The set up was too good to pass up.
23
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 11:39am
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 11:39am
Have to admit that that particular business model had not occurred to me.
25
WookieMan
2018 Mar 15, 12:35pm
WookieMan
2018 Mar 15, 12:35pm
Patrick says
Is the $0.46 out of the $5.00 for credit card fees or something? Seems like a weird amount. Not that it would prevent people from subscribing, just was wondering.
I think it's high to start out. It's nothing in the grand scheme of things ($5.46/mo), but if you want to charge that, you're going to have to do trial periods for 1-3 months, in my opinion. Then hope they either see the value or forget they signed up and you end up charging them anyway (hate that business model, but if you're looking to make money, it's a proven method).
I think you might be better off getting people signed up immediately at a $1.99/mo rate. Do the usual BS of signing up for the year for $19.99 for a 16% discount!!!, and then of course they would have to cancel or you keep charging. This way, you'll likely get people to just throw out the $20/yr and hopefully can cover the upfront costs of trying to get it going. If they don't cancel, you get the $2/mo after 1 year assume their card doesn't expire.
Patrick says
I think it's a long shot, but I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying it. If you're only spending say 10 hours per week, I think you would need 2-3k subscribers @$1.99/mo to make it worthwhile from my perspective. Building that base would be tough though without a history of content related to the real estate topic. That's why I kind of hinted at the $20/yr up front to try and motivate you if you can get 100-300 subscribers quickly. That way you can hopefully cover your time for the first couple of months and if it doesn't work out, you at least somewhat got compensated.
sell $5.46/month subscriptions to my housing email newsletter once again
Is the $0.46 out of the $5.00 for credit card fees or something? Seems like a weird amount. Not that it would prevent people from subscribing, just was wondering.
I think it's high to start out. It's nothing in the grand scheme of things ($5.46/mo), but if you want to charge that, you're going to have to do trial periods for 1-3 months, in my opinion. Then hope they either see the value or forget they signed up and you end up charging them anyway (hate that business model, but if you're looking to make money, it's a proven method).
I think you might be better off getting people signed up immediately at a $1.99/mo rate. Do the usual BS of signing up for the year for $19.99 for a 16% discount!!!, and then of course they would have to cancel or you keep charging. This way, you'll likely get people to just throw out the $20/yr and hopefully can cover the upfront costs of trying to get it going. If they don't cancel, you get the $2/mo after 1 year assume their card doesn't expire.
Patrick says
The big question is whether I can get enough subscribers to live from it.
I think it's a long shot, but I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying it. If you're only spending say 10 hours per week, I think you would need 2-3k subscribers @$1.99/mo to make it worthwhile from my perspective. Building that base would be tough though without a history of content related to the real estate topic. That's why I kind of hinted at the $20/yr up front to try and motivate you if you can get 100-300 subscribers quickly. That way you can hopefully cover your time for the first couple of months and if it doesn't work out, you at least somewhat got compensated.
26
missing
2018 Mar 15, 12:46pm
Some grad students I know wrote several booklets to sell on Amazon. Guides on different math topics. Nothing original in them. Probably copied stuff from here and there. Priced them cheap ($2.99 or $3.99, I don't remember) and wrote fake reviews themselves. They were soon generating as few hundred $ a month.
27
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 1:11pm
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 1:11pm
WookieMan says
Yes, exactly.
WookieMan says
$5/mo worked reasonably well ten years ago. It's much less money now.
FP says
Yes, my own book is via CreateSpace, which is now owned by Amazon. I get maybe $20/month now without even doing anything more. If I advertise it on my site, should do better.
Is the $0.46 out of the $5.00 for credit card fees or something?
Yes, exactly.
WookieMan says
I think it's high to start out.
$5/mo worked reasonably well ten years ago. It's much less money now.
FP says
Some grad students I know wrote several booklets to sell on Amazon. Guides on different math topics. Nothing original in them. Probably copied stuff from here and there. Priced them cheap ($2.99 or $3.99, I don't remember) and wrote fake reviews themselves. They were soon generating as few hundred $ a month.
Yes, my own book is via CreateSpace, which is now owned by Amazon. I get maybe $20/month now without even doing anything more. If I advertise it on my site, should do better.
29
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 3:55pm
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 3:55pm
Patrick says
Post every news story about crypto, then offer affiliate links to trainings, exchanges, etc... also, how about you literally just ask your readers for little bit tips as they see fit.
If you do bitcoin expert interviews w question/answer session , and allow for a front of the line tip function (a la youtube superchat), I bet you'd find a ton of internet dwellers start to come to pat.net for crypto info and crowd sourced feedback.
I'd be happy to give you charting tools that can show crypto info, and I'd be willing to write a daily review of the technicals if ya want.
I'd feel better about a newsletter if I had some kind of unique data or analysis that others don't really have.
Post every news story about crypto, then offer affiliate links to trainings, exchanges, etc... also, how about you literally just ask your readers for little bit tips as they see fit.
If you do bitcoin expert interviews w question/answer session , and allow for a front of the line tip function (a la youtube superchat), I bet you'd find a ton of internet dwellers start to come to pat.net for crypto info and crowd sourced feedback.
I'd be happy to give you charting tools that can show crypto info, and I'd be willing to write a daily review of the technicals if ya want.
30
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 4:27pm
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 4:27pm
@CBOEtrader Thanks, first of all, I didn't know about Superchat tipping. So you can pay to have your comment pinned to the top of a stream for some amount of time. I could totally do that with my home page, where a post would get pinned to the top for a while in return for a donation.
As for bitcoin, I just decided publicly (see comment above) to make the site mostly about housing again.
But! I'm interested in bitcoin and would happily start a new site about it if someone else would do the interviewing etc. Want your own forum about bitcoin? I'll pay for hosting and do all the tech stuff in return for your doing the expert interviews and writing that daily review of the technical indicators. We could split the revenue. Email me at p@patrick.net if you're interested.
As for bitcoin, I just decided publicly (see comment above) to make the site mostly about housing again.
But! I'm interested in bitcoin and would happily start a new site about it if someone else would do the interviewing etc. Want your own forum about bitcoin? I'll pay for hosting and do all the tech stuff in return for your doing the expert interviews and writing that daily review of the technical indicators. We could split the revenue. Email me at p@patrick.net if you're interested.
31
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 5:14pm
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 5:14pm
Yeah let's discuss bitcoin idea in the future. I know some people who'd be better at that than myself, and im currently busy building my insurance business. (Maybe I should start an insurance forum...though that's about as boring as watching paint dry.)
Regarding your real estate concept, first thing I'd do is start tracking data. Your rental and listing info from Craigslist idea is Great! How would they know your pat.net 1 br San Fran average number is coming from their site? Pretty sure Zillow and every other real estate site sells data for a few thousand/year. I'd also consider tracking mortgage rates, average incomes, etc... anything that is related to real estate and put it all into one periodic report. I suggest you use yahoo finance to download stock price history, and create pat.net branded real estate index values. Maybe create a few indexes to track different types of real estate companies.
After you have the data reports running, start doing exactly what we discussed above for bitcoin. Interview "experts", sell seminars and investment books via affiliate links, etc...
FYI, if you join a YouTube superchat, you will see how much an "expert" w a following can make in 90 minutes. I sat and counted tips in a Cernovich superchat, he was making well over $200 every 10 minutes.
Effectively turn your brand into a real estate data and discussion forum, w a hard line on critical evaluation rather than jumping into every idea...
Allow the experts to convince a skeptical patrick that their products are worthwhile, and then let the listener/reader decide what works for him.
A newsletter could even be free if you are selling enough products and superchat tips from your userbase.
Regarding your real estate concept, first thing I'd do is start tracking data. Your rental and listing info from Craigslist idea is Great! How would they know your pat.net 1 br San Fran average number is coming from their site? Pretty sure Zillow and every other real estate site sells data for a few thousand/year. I'd also consider tracking mortgage rates, average incomes, etc... anything that is related to real estate and put it all into one periodic report. I suggest you use yahoo finance to download stock price history, and create pat.net branded real estate index values. Maybe create a few indexes to track different types of real estate companies.
After you have the data reports running, start doing exactly what we discussed above for bitcoin. Interview "experts", sell seminars and investment books via affiliate links, etc...
FYI, if you join a YouTube superchat, you will see how much an "expert" w a following can make in 90 minutes. I sat and counted tips in a Cernovich superchat, he was making well over $200 every 10 minutes.
Effectively turn your brand into a real estate data and discussion forum, w a hard line on critical evaluation rather than jumping into every idea...
Allow the experts to convince a skeptical patrick that their products are worthwhile, and then let the listener/reader decide what works for him.
A newsletter could even be free if you are selling enough products and superchat tips from your userbase.
32
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 5:29pm
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 5:29pm
Oh and take a tip from the financial talking heads, and PLAY UP YOUR HOUSING CRASH call of 2008!
"Patrick Killea, one of the few to call the housing crash of 2008, brings you daily real estate investment commentary with a skeptical perspective", etc.
"Patrick Killea, one of the few to call the housing crash of 2008, brings you daily real estate investment commentary with a skeptical perspective", etc.
33
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 15, 6:08pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 15, 6:08pm
Wasn't there a guy named Williams who told everybody the great advice: Buy Term, Invest the Difference.
That's what you should do Patrick, every week do a livestream on Youtube with a selected market and some examples if it's better to "Rent, Not Buy".
And put a calculator and some references on this website.
That's what you should do Patrick, every week do a livestream on Youtube with a selected market and some examples if it's better to "Rent, Not Buy".
And put a calculator and some references on this website.
34
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 6:08pm
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 6:08pm
Feux Follets says
Good question, but it absolutely worked for me before. And then slowly declined in paying subscribers. That's the part I'd need to fix.
It's a lot of work to come up with interesting links every day, or every other day, and moderately witty titles to go along with them. There is no automation for that.
Feux Follets says
That's why it's only $5.46/month. If any given person doesn't like it, no problem, no questions, instant refund. The key is to get enough of them to like it.
why would someone pay you to do what they can do themselves in less than 30 minutes which is establish a daily reading list of Real Estate related websites - for free.
Good question, but it absolutely worked for me before. And then slowly declined in paying subscribers. That's the part I'd need to fix.
It's a lot of work to come up with interesting links every day, or every other day, and moderately witty titles to go along with them. There is no automation for that.
Feux Follets says
If whatever you create allows similar to take place - I would be asking for a full and immediate refund.
That's why it's only $5.46/month. If any given person doesn't like it, no problem, no questions, instant refund. The key is to get enough of them to like it.
35
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 15, 6:12pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 15, 6:12pm
I think CBO is on the right track, he toggled my memory about the "Buy Term, Invest the Difference" idea.
It's a hook that spawned an entire industry around the concept, so maybe you should walk the same path.
You should think about making a teaser presentation/2 minute speech about "Renting vs. Buying" and "Debt is Slavery", put it up on Youtube, then link to an online seminar you charge access to.
Maybe $5 gets you membership to the site and the seminar on video, access for a month. Also the calculator and other tools, and maybe a monthly sample of one or two markets to keep people interested as you move around geographically. Back episodes for $5.00
"Don't buy a house, until you use the Patrick.net Rent Vs. Buy Calculator"
Cheaper than some premium streams out there.
It's a hook that spawned an entire industry around the concept, so maybe you should walk the same path.
You should think about making a teaser presentation/2 minute speech about "Renting vs. Buying" and "Debt is Slavery", put it up on Youtube, then link to an online seminar you charge access to.
Maybe $5 gets you membership to the site and the seminar on video, access for a month. Also the calculator and other tools, and maybe a monthly sample of one or two markets to keep people interested as you move around geographically. Back episodes for $5.00
"Don't buy a house, until you use the Patrick.net Rent Vs. Buy Calculator"
Cheaper than some premium streams out there.
36
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 6:14pm
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 6:14pm
I'd expect more revenue and a more diverse community from an affiliate marketing business model rather than subscription model.
Attract users interested in real estate investments. Get enough of them and the service providers will jockey for their attention on your site.
Easy, if you can get enough highly targeted clicks.
Attract users interested in real estate investments. Get enough of them and the service providers will jockey for their attention on your site.
Easy, if you can get enough highly targeted clicks.
37
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 6:41pm
Patrick
2018 Mar 15, 6:41pm
I'm grateful for the suggestions. Some things I learned last time around:
* If it's not easily scalable, I can't do it. Meaning the site has to basically run on its own, especially because I'm just one person and I go into full time jobs now and then. I don't have time to deal with issues or the need to create much new content if I'm working. The newslink model is about at the limit of what I can do while working full time, because it was taking me 2 to 3 hours per night to come up with a quality set of links.
* Subscriptions are the best of all possible business models, except that users generally hate subscriptions. But the recurring revenue gives you predictable income and a way for outsiders to value your business easily. So I still love subscriptions. Also don't really trust affiliate marketing. Someone got pissed off about all the Realtalk here and reported this site to Amazon, which cut me out of the affiliate program just because of that.
* If I don't give a shit about something, then I just can't keep doing it. I do still care about the fact that realtors continue to fuck over millions of young families each year for personal profit. I feel energized when thinking about how much it annoys realtors to have people like me point out the fundamentally fraudulent nature of their business. Commercial real estate does not give me the same energy.
* Dependencies are evil. Craigslist cut me off in one fell swoop and killed a running business. Lots of people have profitable YouTube businesses until Google downgrades them or cuts their money. I absolutely must not be dependent on any one supplier for anything. Going to have both Stripe and Paypal, and paper checks. Need to get the site running in triplicate on 3 different ISPs instead of just one.
* If it's not easily scalable, I can't do it. Meaning the site has to basically run on its own, especially because I'm just one person and I go into full time jobs now and then. I don't have time to deal with issues or the need to create much new content if I'm working. The newslink model is about at the limit of what I can do while working full time, because it was taking me 2 to 3 hours per night to come up with a quality set of links.
* Subscriptions are the best of all possible business models, except that users generally hate subscriptions. But the recurring revenue gives you predictable income and a way for outsiders to value your business easily. So I still love subscriptions. Also don't really trust affiliate marketing. Someone got pissed off about all the Realtalk here and reported this site to Amazon, which cut me out of the affiliate program just because of that.
* If I don't give a shit about something, then I just can't keep doing it. I do still care about the fact that realtors continue to fuck over millions of young families each year for personal profit. I feel energized when thinking about how much it annoys realtors to have people like me point out the fundamentally fraudulent nature of their business. Commercial real estate does not give me the same energy.
* Dependencies are evil. Craigslist cut me off in one fell swoop and killed a running business. Lots of people have profitable YouTube businesses until Google downgrades them or cuts their money. I absolutely must not be dependent on any one supplier for anything. Going to have both Stripe and Paypal, and paper checks. Need to get the site running in triplicate on 3 different ISPs instead of just one.
38
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 7:44pm
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 15, 7:44pm
Feux Follets says
Do these sites create and track their own real estate indexes and/or rental price averages?
I'd think the extra data would attract clicks. If there are also discussions when they get here at least some would stick around.
The indexes and tracked live (almost live) data could be a unique attraction?
I agree with the concept however there are a lot of blogs and websites already slogging it out in Real Estate. I posed links from one of them on here a few days ago - it's based in San Francisco.
Do these sites create and track their own real estate indexes and/or rental price averages?
I'd think the extra data would attract clicks. If there are also discussions when they get here at least some would stick around.
The indexes and tracked live (almost live) data could be a unique attraction?
39
Y
2018 Mar 15, 8:53pm
Y
2018 Mar 15, 8:53pm
Don't fight the wave of clickcash.
sell ads on all pages, tons of clicks a day from everybody...
sell ads on all pages, tons of clicks a day from everybody...
40
MrMagic
2018 Mar 16, 8:23am
MrMagic
2018 Mar 16, 8:23am
rando says
How do you charge subscriptions when posts are moderated, deleted, blocked and delayed? Do people actually pay for that?
* Subscriptions are the best of all possible business models, except that users generally hate subscriptions.
How do you charge subscriptions when posts are moderated, deleted, blocked and delayed? Do people actually pay for that?
41
Patrick
2018 Mar 16, 10:51am
Patrick
2018 Mar 16, 10:51am
They were paying for emails containing hand-selected external newslinks. Not for the forum.
42
KgK one
2018 Mar 16, 12:37pm
Hi Patrick, I have few ideas on apps. Need someone with little more experience than me to vet them thru. I don't mind giving reasonable amount once app become profitable. Let me know if u want to chat kgodk , been part of the site for 8 yrs.
43
missing
2018 Mar 16, 2:25pm
Yep, having the one whose name cannot be mentioned aroung would have been sooo useful.
44
Booger
2018 Mar 16, 7:08pm
Booger
2018 Mar 16, 7:08pm
How about a site where you rate your real estate agent? And/ or landlord?
Just made sure that Apocalypsefuck writes most of the first batch of reviews.
Just made sure that Apocalypsefuck writes most of the first batch of reviews.
45
mell
2018 Mar 16, 7:13pm
Booger says
Actually rate your landlord is a great idea! And only the best of the best get the rare AF M314 seal of approval.
How about a site where you rate your real estate agent? And/ or landlord?
Just made sure that Apocalypsefuck writes most of the first batch of reviews.
Actually rate your landlord is a great idea! And only the best of the best get the rare AF M314 seal of approval.
46
Patrick
2018 Mar 16, 9:33pm
Patrick
2018 Mar 16, 9:33pm
Booger says
We could start right now. Just create a post with the landlord's name as the title. People can vote them up or down.
How about a site where you rate your real estate agent? And/ or landlord?
We could start right now. Just create a post with the landlord's name as the title. People can vote them up or down.
47
MrMagic
2018 Mar 19, 7:39pm
MrMagic
2018 Mar 19, 7:39pm
Patrick says
Start selling SSRI drugs to all the mentally handicapped Lefty posters here who really need treatment.
You'll be RICH (and be helping their Liberalism disease, all at the same time)!!
Business suggestions for Patrick
Start selling SSRI drugs to all the mentally handicapped Lefty posters here who really need treatment.
You'll be RICH (and be helping their Liberalism disease, all at the same time)!!
« First « Previous Comments 17 - 47 of 47 Search these comments
I'm thinking of bringing back the housing news links, but it was a huge amount of work, and subscriptions were declining below the point where it was worthwhile. Maybe if I paid for advertising, that would help, but I doubt I'll get anything like the free press coverage I got way back in the housing bubble days.
Is there something else related to investing, housing, or politics? Curated news links like the housing links are relatively simple, but not really worthwhile until you can get well over 1,000 subscribers (= $5,000/month, = $60,000/year)
I know subscription fees are annoying, but they are often totally worth it as a consumer, and are definitely the best business model as a provider. I gladly pay my $5 to Spotify per month for a huge selection of music. They in turn spend most of that on licensing, which is a typical issue with subscriptions to raw data that someone else controls.
OK, housing newsletter again, or something else? Best funny pictures? Carefully selected porn links? What would you really enjoy getting in your email a few times a week?