patrick.net

Evan F. says

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Have illegals ever been known to use Social Security Numbers that don't belong to them?

I know that they do, I think I told the story before .

GASP. I'm clutching my pearls. You mean that voter fraud EXISTS?!?!

He means that The Party bends over backwards to make illegal voting as easy as possible. In fact, it almost (lol) looks like they are encouraging it.

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

SSN != citizen. People on fucking H1B visa get real SSNs. True story.

If AB60 DL is not an obstacle for getting a voter registration and CA has passed a law to automatically register to vote everyone who gets a DL, what's really preventing the illegals from voting? Honor? =))

H1B visa holders are here legally. Not sure how that's germaine to this discussion. ???

Based on the DMV website, and what you have said, seems to me that an AB60 DL actually IS an obstacle to getting a voter registration. CA only automatically registers people who are issued a "REAL ID."

Evan F. says

GASP. I'm clutching my pearls. You mean that voter fraud EXISTS?!?!

And the AB60 is a deliberate attempt to muddy the water by conflating citizens with non-citizens by California.

BTW, there has been a fresh development in all this CA DL covfefe: because of the outcry from citizens who got "Federal limits apply" CA DL via mail and were denied firearm or ammunition purchases because of it the BATF has reversed its policy and now allows the holders of such DLs to buy guns and ammunition despite the language.

Evan F. says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

SSN != citizen. People on fucking H1B visa get real SSNs. True story.

If AB60 DL is not an obstacle for getting a voter registration and CA has passed a law to automatically register to vote everyone who gets a DL, what's really preventing the illegals from voting? Honor? =))

H1B visa holders are here legally. Not sure how that's germaine to this discussion. ???

It's illegal for them to vote. Even though they have a real SSN. That's how.

Evan F. says

Based on the DMV website, and what you have said, seems to me that an AB60 DL actually IS an obstacle to getting a voter registration. CA only automatically registers people who are issued a "REAL ID."

If this is true (still a big if) it means that in process of accomodating illegal aliens CA has disenfranchised US citizens who get their DL renewed via mail (like they did for years before AB60). They will discover that suddenly they can't register to vote if they move between counties. Fuck you, US citizens and your voting rights - we have more important people to care about!

Politicians, pre 1990: "Does it play in Preoria?"
Politicians, post 1990: Does it piss off Preoria?"

I'm still waiting for the hard evidence of the scale of voter fraud that's being suggested by Trump. None so far has been provided, beyond the anecdotal crap I read about from a few people here and there on discussion threads like this. And if you see voter fraud yourself, why aren't you reporting it? Most election precincts in CA receive next to nothing in the way of fraud complaints.

Look, I'm all for clamping down on illegal immigration, but building a fucking wall isn't going to do a goddamned thing to stop anyone. The only thing that will really stop them is removing the incentives for them to come in the first place. Punish businesses who hire them? Sure, sounds fine. I'm willing to pay more for my food, my services, etc. But as far as voter registration goes, I have yet to see any sort of large scale fraud by noncitizens. I live in Los Angeles in a heavily Latino area, probably plenty of noncitizens. Here's my anecdote: none of them vote. Literally, none of them, citizens and noncitizens alike. They're all too busy working.

Obligatory:


www.youtube.com/embed/knXRnvpcL_A

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

If this is true it means that in process of accomodating illegal aliens CA has disenfranchised US citizens who get their DL renewed via mail (like they did for years before AB60). They will discover that suddenly they can't register to vote if they move between counties. Fuck you, US citizens and your voting rights - we have more important people to care about!

As I mentioned before, why don't you just go to a DMV and get it done in person? This is the reality we now deal with, you want to combat illegal voter fraud then spending a few minutes in person at the DMV is the price you're going to have to pay.

Evan F. says

I'm still waiting for the hard evidence of the scale of voter fraud that's being suggested by Trump. None so far has been provided, beyond the anecdotal crap I read about from a few people here and there on discussion threads like this. And if you see voter fraud yourself, why aren't you reporting it? Most election precincts in CA receive next to nothing in the way of fraud complaints.

If you don't look for something, and deliberately muddy the waters to make checking more difficult, you won't find anything.

Therefore, since we didn't find anything because we refuse to look for it, there's no evidence of it!

Evan F. says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

If this is true it means that in process of accomodating illegal aliens CA has disenfranchised US citizens who get their DL renewed via mail (like they did for years before AB60). They will discover that suddenly they can't register to vote if they move between counties. Fuck you, US citizens and your voting rights - we have more important people to care about!

As I mentioned before, why don't you just go to a DMV and get it done in person? This is the reality we now deal with, you want to combat illegal voter fraud then spending a few minutes in person at the DMV is the price you're going to have to pay.

First of all, it's not "a few minutes", secondly it's not really well publicized so many people will be caught off-guard and thirdly this wouldn't be a problem if not for AB60. The Party has created problems for citizens by accomodating illegal aliens. Talking about priorities.

And yes, I personally will go and spend half a fucking day to get what I would otherwise get via mail - normal, non-restricted DL. Thanks, Dems!

TwoScoopsPlissken says

If you don't look for something, and deliberately muddy the waters to make checking more difficult, you won't find anything.

Therefore, since we didn't find anything because we refuse to look for it, there's no evidence of it!

Except they did look. Did Trump's voter fraud commission find anything?

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

First of all, it's not "a few minutes", secondly it's not really well publicized so many people will be caught off-guard and thirdly this wouldn't be a problem if not ...

I renewed at the Inglewood DMV last year. It took me an hour, door to door, from my house. In @#$#ing INGLEWOOD. If it takes you longer than say, 2 hours, you're doing it wrong.

As far as it not being well publicized, I'd agree, but it really doesn't take long to figure out.

I don't know about CA, but there's quite literally zero barrier in IL to be able to vote. The biggest hurdle is more like a stripe on the ground... drum roll please.... a utility bill. http://elections.il.gov/votinginformation/voteregforms.aspx

And yes, it's illegal to falsify info on voter registration, but no one is ever, ever going to check this. Plus get this, they're already here illegally, so consequences of secondary fraud are of little consequence to these people. No ID is required at polling places, as I think is the case everywhere.

Given the Southwest side of Chicago's massive hispanic population, there's not a chance in hell politicians don't want ALL of them voting. Then factor this in if you know Chicago even slightly: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/10/14/little-village-retail-strip-is-second-highest-grossing-in-city/

The 2nd highest grossing retail corridor in the 3rd largest city in the country is basically Mexican/Hispanic. Trust me, they're making sure illegals are voting. Think of the sales tax revenue alone. This group has power in Chicago and I've had personal interactions with the power players. They're slimy fuckers.

I'd venture to guess there's close to 6 figures of illegal voting in Northeastern IL. Factor in other high % hispanic towns/cities in the area (Aurora, Elgin, etc) and the actual numbers could be alarming. Even if I'm off and it's only 5 figures, that's enough to potentially swing important elections. Say a US Senator from IL won by 80,000 votes? They're there to represent IL, but they're voting on national policy. And they could essentially be there fraudulently.

I think a border wall is such an asinine idea. So I'm not some illegal "hater" necessarily. It's a boondoggle for contractors to make money. Won't stop a whole lot. That said, illegal immigrants voting should be taken a whole hell of a lot more seriously then it is. It has ACTUAL consequences on citizens if people are getting elected fraudulently. And it IS happening.

Good luck breaking through the Chicago Hispanic caucus' shield though if you want to get actual evidence. In Chicago, illegals are essentially a protected class. This is hands on experience mind you, not news sources.

Giving legal DL to people here illegally=Democrates

Evan F. says

The only thing that will really stop them is removing the incentives for them to come in the first place. Punish businesses who hire them? Sure, sounds fine.

I'm in total agreement with you Evan.

The real criminals in all this are the business owners who are screwing over US citizens because they found that they can evade our labor laws with impunity.

We should create lots of "punity" for them.

WookieMan says

I think a border wall is such an asinine idea. So I'm not some illegal "hater" necessarily. It's a boondoggle for contractors to make money. Won't stop a whole lot. That said, illegal immigrants voting should be taken a whole hell of a lot more seriously then it is. It has ACTUAL consequences on citizens if people are getting elected fraudulently. And it IS happening.

The border wall will be more effective in reducing human trafficking and drugs. BUT, it's a symbolic victory at this point. If the Wall happens, E-Verify and Voter Verification can happen. If the Business and Political forces dependent on illegal immigration stop the wall, the chances of E-Verify and Voter Verification are minimal.

Evan F. says

The only thing that will really stop them is removing the incentives for them to come in the first place.

Providing DLs, education and medical services, protection from deportation are incentives, no?

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

Providing DLs, education and medical services, protection from deportation are incentives, no?

People don't trek hundreds/thousands of miles across an essentially militarized border to get a drivers license. Children rarely come here on their own, so education is merely a secondary benefit, as are medical services.

Immigrants come here looking for work and income, first and foremost. Only a tiny fraction of immigrants come here seeking asylum, protection, some sort of lifesaving medical procedure, etc. So, stop businesses from hiring them, and you'll stem the influx.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The border wall will be more effective in reducing human trafficking and drugs. BUT, it's a symbolic victory at this point. If the Wall happens, E-Verify and Voter Verification can happen. If the Business and Political forces dependent on illegal immigration stop the wall, the chances of E-Verify and Voter Verification are minimal.

No, it probably won't. How many tunnels are there connecting the country? The fact that we've found a few dozen of these tunnels likely suggests that there are literally hundreds that we haven't. Also, ever heard of the pacific ocean? Traffickers use these things called 'boats' to transport their goods.

A wall won't do shit, except waste billions.

I voted, poll workers don’t want to even see an id. They just ask for name so they can match a name on a list.

Ton of room for fraud. I could have said my name is Patrick killea and gotten a ballot in his name. It’s retardedly stupid how easy voting fraud can be.

And some people think illegals don’t vote... right now anyone can stuff ballot box, there is 0 checks.

Evan F. says

No, it probably won't. How many tunnels are there connecting the country? The fact that we've found a few dozen of these tunnels likely suggests that there are literally hundreds that we haven't. Also, ever heard of the pacific ocean? Traffickers use these things called 'boats' to transport their goods.

A wall won't do shit, except waste billions.

Yep, there was a guy who thought he was clever in the 80s by using personal boats from Mexico to smuggle drugs. As soon as the CG found out, it pretty much ended. There's very little chance of any boat leaving Mexico for the Pacific Coast of California without being tracked and entered into a database. You might get away with it once or twice, but eventually they realize patterns that differentiate the smuggling boats from somebody in San Diego taking their boat to Baja on vacation.

Ditto with private air and boat traffic to Florida in the far more congested Caribbean.

Digging tunnels requires more resources spent by drug and human smugglers.

Evan F. says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

Providing DLs, education and medical services, protection from deportation are incentives, no?

People don't trek hundreds/thousands of miles across an essentially militarized border to get a drivers license. Children rarely come here on their own, so education is merely a secondary benefit, as are medical services.

All these things makes their stay here much more comfortable. It's fucking obvious.

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

All these things makes their stay here much more comfortable. It's fucking obvious.

But it's not why they come in the first place. Isn't that fucking obvious, too?

My problem with all of the 'solutions' posed by politicians- seemingly regardless of party affiliation- is that all of the problems are treating the symptom, not the root cause. Immigration happens when we provide jobs to neighboring nations that are economically depressed. Drug trafficking happens when our own people are purchasing them, often times because they're socioeconomically depressed. WE CREATE the demand, and then think that the best way to fix the problem is punishing people who are merely responding to a market opportunity. It's simple economics. We need to destroy the root of the problem by clamping down on labor violations, and quite frankly, working with countries like Mexico to set up trade agreements that are economically beneficial to both parties, not just us. It may cost us in terms of GDP but I'd be willing to posit that the offset from less illegal immigration (and the costs associated with it) would more than pay for it. The side benefit is that you'd have less hand-wringing over all this supposed voter fraud many of you are going on about.

Still waiting for evidence on that, BTW.

Evan F. says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

All these things makes their stay here much more comfortable. It's fucking obvious.

But it's not why they come in the first place. Isn't that fucking obvious, too?

I don't fucking care why are they coming. I want it to be harder to break laws and suck from the taxpayer tit, not easier. As it stands now it gets easier with every step taken by The Party which rules this state unopposed.

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

I don't fucking care why are they coming.

Boom. That's why we'll probably never solve this problem. Nobody wants to deal with the 'why', just the 'how.'

Evan F. says

But it's not why they come in the first place. Isn't that fucking obvious, too?

Good point, actually. If businesses are penalized and will not hire illegals, and there is no welfare for them, illegals will self-remove themselves to countries of origin, thus saving removal costs. Catching 100 or even 100 000 illegals and deporting will not solve anything, just like wall will not solve the problem. Many illegals overstay visas - wall will not help there, I have no clue how one can build wall in AZ or TX desert areas which are extremely remote, etc.

Evan F. says

My problem with all of the 'solutions' posed by politicians- seemingly regardless of party affiliation- is that all of the problems are treating the symptom, not the root cause.

Here's one that solves the problem: Mandatory E-Verify. I've used it before, it's so quick and easy as to be ridiculous. There's literally no excuse besides politicians colluding with Business not to employ it.

The second is a few perp walks and total forfeiture of equipment (their F-150, all tools, etc.) from Contractors who hire illegal day laborers. Also, their home gets a lien for unpaid payroll tax.

FortWayne says

I voted, poll workers don’t want to even see an id. They just ask for name so they can match a name on a list.

Ton of room for fraud. I could have said my name is Patrick killea and gotten a ballot in his name. It’s retardedly stupid how easy voting fraud can be.

And some people think illegals don’t vote... right now anyone can stuff ballot box, there is 0 checks.

You are willfully talking nonsense and should know better, having voted in California.

In Los Angeles, when you arrive at the polling place you are not asked for ID. You are asked your name and address. Then one person looks up your name alphabetically on one printout, while a second looks you up by address. Only registered voters and non-fictitious addresses pass this system. The entries are then crossed off the master list.

If the "real" Patrick Killea came in to vote before or after, it would instantly be flagged, the event recorded, and the second person would not be given a ballot without further vetting procedures. This type of fraud is virtually unheard of.

If someone registered to vote using your address, you'd see the entry next to yours on one list. If someone registered to use your name at a different address within your voting district, if the system didn't kick this back during the registration process, you'd see another person with your exact name has appeared in your own community on the other list.

The system isn't perfect, but the amount of voter fraud under this system is better known than you've portrayed, and it's known to be a statistically insignificant percentage of the electorate.

Automan Empire says

In Los Angeles, when you arrive at the polling place you are not asked for ID. You are asked your name and address. Then one person looks up your name alphabetically on one printout, while a second looks you up by address. Only registered voters and non-fictitious addresses pass this system. The entries are then crossed off the master list.

Son I voted few days ago in a local election (Los Angeles). I was asked for my name only, the woman looked me up in the book and confirmed to me my street so she could cross out the right one. I didn't even have to say it, she told me my street and I just said "yes". I asked if she wants to see my ID, she said "no". Gave me a ballot and I voted.

End of story.

Why does it matter if they ask for an address? Doesn't prove you are a citizen.

At what point in the process do you have to prove citizenship?

If illegals are counted in the census by definition they'll have representation. In affect a 'vote' without even voting.

Also, I dated an illegal alien about 13 years ago. She was a Brazilian who over stayed her visa and was trying to wait out the chain migration line - her sister was legal. Back then whenever she called a recording told her that her case was 999 days away. Always the max. Apparently it was moving slowly after 911.

Anyhow she was 21 and had heart issues that were always sending her to the emergency room. Being a nanny making 70K under the table in Palo Alto the state just sent her letters saying basically, "No worries about the 3K you owe for your visit on X date. We'll pay it for you.".

She had what looked like a social security number, but what's instead called a tax-ID number. She couldn't use that at Foothill College, she needed a REAL social security number for that. So she stole one.