patrick.net

mell says

Macron pretty much admitted the other day that France has lost control over immigration and that the local leaders in the problem areas need to "help themselves" now.

A whopping 100,000 asylum seekers in a country of 67 million is hardly overrun by illegals. Especially sine they aren't illegal, they are perfectly legally seeking asylum. If they don't get asylum, only 16,000 were granted last year, they get deported, the same as the rest of Europe. They don't hang around home depot parking looking for work off the books for 30 years.

France has lost control of it's immigrant ghettos where they have kept their north african cheap labour imports of the 1950's/60/s pretty much imprisoned. Racism against North Africans in France makes 1950's southern states look like champions for blacks. No one outside the ghettos will rent to them. They can't get work. They can't get education. Many can't get citizenship after living in France for generations. Then the French complain the immigrants don't assimilate. The local leaders in the ghettos have to "help themselves" because the French authorities won't bother to.

The French created their own immigrant problem over the last 60 years that has nothing to do with the current asylum seekers. They deserve it too. A little knowledge of the subject instead of regurgitated talking points would be a good thing for informed commentary.

CBOEtrader says

Trump and the other supposed "right wing" movements of other countries are literally saying they want to protect western liberalism.

Trump and Bannon came into the white house literally saying they wanted to protect western liberalism? So let me get this straight in my mind. The rabid anti liberal republican base voted into the white house a man who was literally saying he wanted to protect western liberalism. Was that reported in breitbart? I somehow missed reading about that altogether. It's just amazing what you learn on patent.

bob2356 says

The rabid anti liberal republican base voted into the white house a man who was literally saying he wanted to protect western liberalism

Yes. A little knowledge of the subject instead of regurgitated talking points would be a good thing for informed commentary. The autonomy of the individual, aka classic western liberalism, is the opposite of the progressive values of today's left.

Trump otoh defends western liberalism. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trumps-praise-for-western-civilization-if-we-dont-forget-who-are-we-just-cant-be-beaten

"The West became great not because of paperwork and regulations but because people were allowed to chase their dreams and pursue their destinies," Trump contended. "Americans, Poles, and the nations of Europe value individual freedom and sovereignty.

We must work together to confront forces, whether they come from inside or out, from the South or the East, that threaten over time to undermine these values and to erase the bonds of culture, faith, and tradition that make us who we are."

CBOEtrader says

The autonomy of the individual, aka classic western liberalism, is the opposite of the progressive values of today's left.

c

Give me a fracking break. The half formed ideology that never became more than a theoretical navel gazing excersize from 200 years ago? Seriously? Classic western liberalism has been dead as a doornail since the civil war. What a joke.

You do remember classic liberalism was anti democracy don't you? They also believed starvation was good for populations control.

bob2356 says

The half formed ideology that never became more than a theoretical navel gazing excersize from 200 years ago?

You mean the ideology upon which our individual sovereignty is based? Yes, it's a cultural distinction worth fighting for.

Your disdain for classic liberalism isn't surprising, considering your leftist tribal affiliation. Thanks for proving my point.

bob2356 says

Classic western liberalism has been dead as a doornail since the civil war.

Yup, the D and R oligopolists have taken us in a fascist direction. Good thing someone, at least, is reminding us to embrace our diminishing personal freedoms rather than globalism.

Quigley says

Tim Aurora says

white leaning. Leaving aside the job growth rate , which followed the Obama era growth, let us see how are his short term policies.

Coal: Support Coal which is the fuel of the past over the fuel of future such as solar. In short term US will save jobs but in the long rum other countries will develop better technology. Most (86%) of the coal employees are white and 85% are white

You Leftists try so very hard to make populism into racism. It’s just not true and you’ve become the racists you rail against. Whether you’re actively discriminating against whites and Asians or treating black people like irresponsible children, you’re more racist than egalitarian.

Oh, Goran--I believe this is similar to the post you zapped this morning. Referring to the poster when saying Leftists.

Should I keep going? How many more til it's a trend?

CBOEtrader says

bob2356 says

The half formed ideology that never became more than a theoretical navel gazing excersize from 200 years ago?

You mean the ideology upon which our individual sovereignty is based? Yes, it's a cultural distinction worth fighting for.

Your disdain for classic liberalism isn't surprising, considering your leftist tribal affiliation. Thanks for proving my point

Funny how you managed to skip over the parts of classic iiberalism that don't agree with your ideology. Not surprising. Read Karl Polanyi's study of classic liberalism to find out what it actually was rather than the mises idealized fictional version. You do remember that free trade and globalism through extra sovereign institutions was one the cornerstone of classic liberalism don't you? Classic liberalism in mainland Europe, which laster longer than the US or the UK totally broke down in the depression and directly lead to the rise of Hitler and fascism. Is this where you believe we should be going?

Leftist tribal affiliation? ROFLOL. Sorry, strictly middle of the road moderate, 25 year dues paying former republican at that. The problem is the right has moved so far right that they can't even see the middle any more. everything left of fascism is leftist tribal affiliation.

marcus says

A secret plan to break up the West would also have the United States looking for new allies to replace the discarded ones. The most obvious would be Russia, the biggest rival within Europe to Germany, France and Britain.

OK, explain this one for me: if "Russia is the biggest rival within Europe to Germany, France and Britain" (I agree with this, btw), why the fuck Germany bending over backwards in order to accomodate Putinfuck's desire to have another pipeline for his gas exports? They push for the project to which US, Poland and host of other European countries strongly object. Donald doesn't tell them to do it - quite contrary, he urged them to scrap the project. Unlike some lip service to possible return of Russiafucks into G8 (I oppose this, btw) which is just words, giving the fucks another pipeline to increase their exports is a concrete action which directly favors Russia and increases Putin's leverage in Europe. So, who's being Putin's bitch and trying to destroy Western unity again?

bob2356 says

A whopping 100,000 asylum seekers in a country of 67 million is hardly overrun by illegals. Especially sine they aren't illegal, they are perfectly legally seeking asylum. If they don't get asylum, only 16,000 were granted last year, they get deported, the same as the rest of Europe. They don't hang around home depot parking looking for work off the books for 30 years.

Many are illegal in the context that many countries now put the Maghreb countries into the list of safe countries, so there is no right to apply in Europe. Consider Morocco bidding for the next 2026 soccer world cup. I'm all for more alliances with more countries but they need to not only share benefits, but also responsibilities, such as housing those next to them if necessary.

bob2356 says

France has lost control of it's immigrant ghettos where they have kept their north african cheap labour imports of the 1950's/60/s pretty much imprisoned. Racism against North Africans in France makes 1950's southern states look like champions for blacks. No one outside the ghettos will rent to them. They can't get work. They can't get education. Many can't get citizenship after living in France for generations. Then the French complain the immigrants don't assimilate. The local leaders in the ghettos have to "help themselves" because the French authorities won't bother to.

I disagree on that. The racist French is merely a myth. They have given many economically motivated (and few politically motivated) a great life and are being rewarded with mayhem in the banlieus. If you come into a foreign country you have to earn your accolades.

bob2356 says

The French created their own immigrant problem over the last 60 years that has nothing to do with the current asylum seekers. They deserve it too.

How are past mistakes, if any, reason for them to deserve violence and mayhem? Fact is they are the ones giving shelter, money and food and they have every right to close their borders and deport those that don't behave. Please.

CBOEtrader says

Yeah the hypocrisy is dense here. The extreme left literally says they want the power structures of the west to fall. Meanwhile, Trump and the other supposed "right wing" movements of other countries are literally saying they want to protect western liberalism.

Yet Marcus and other supposed moderate lefties say Trump and the worldwide anti-globalist backlash is a threat to western culture? Just amazing to watch double speak in action.

I always forget that the Left believes a Utopia or near Utopia is possible if we only radically adjust society. They ignore all failures to do so on various grounds, such as "The US doesn't trade with Cuba" (forgetting that it does trade with 90% of the rest of the World), "We didn't spend enough money" (a Poverty Program favorite), or "Institutionalized Racism" (nevermind that inner city police forces are heavily minority and have been for decades, now rappers whinge about "White Acting Black Cops", plus affirmative action across all Federal and State contracting and institutions).

And all previous efforts that failed were not 'True Socialism'. Just like von Mises types whinge about "True Free Markets" with no regulation whatsoever never have existed.

So getting rid of the annoying West and the US in particular is the "Final Obstacle" in the pursuit of a "Humanitarian Society".

CBOEtrader says

"The West became great not because of paperwork and regulations but because people were allowed to chase their dreams and pursue their destinies," Trump contended. "Americans, Poles, and the nations of Europe value individual freedom and sovereignty.

The Greatest reason for third world poverty is redistribution of wealth, and the iron hand of family, clan, and tribal groups. No surplus can ever be held to further develop, since family/clan members demand any largess be immediately distributed for consumption.

And going to @Patrick 's point, there is no sense of Nationalism like Americans or Europeans under stand it. In most third world countries, a few powerful Clans share power and there really isn't much of a nation and little loyalty or respect for it. Gaza, Senegal, etc.

You know why you never hear about Microloans anymore? Families and Clans pressured women to take out loans, then spent the money and there was a default. It was supposed to be for tools to make more shit, but it ended up being defaulted on after Cousin Tanta and Uncle Mboto got their Samsung J1s instead of for Kotakinte's propane stove to start a meat pie shop.

Just like giving out free clothes ruined the textile industry in the third world.

It's ironic that the Left hates Nationalism when it's a key component of the Enlightenment.

Hassan_Rouhani says

OK, explain this one for me: if "Russia is the biggest rival within Europe to Germany, France and Britain" (I agree with this, btw), why the fuck Germany bending over backwards in order to accomodate Putinfuck's desire to have another pipeline for his gas exports? They push for the project to which US, Poland and host of other European countries strongly object. Donald doesn't tell them to do it - quite contrary, he urged them to scrap the project. Unlike some lip service to possible return of Russiafucks into G8 (I oppose this, btw) which is just words, giving the fucks another pipeline to increase their exports is a concrete action which directly favors Russia and increases Putin's leverage there. So, who's being Putin's bitch and trying to destroy Western unity again?

Germany is playing for it's own superiority like they always have done. Even Hitler got over Bolshevism for a while to get all that grain, nickel, and oil between August 1939 and June 1941. They'll spend almost nothing on Defense, relying on the USA, while talking down the USA worldwide and adding to their Oil and Gas supplies with Russia.

PS Donald Tusk of Poland is regarded as the most Corrupt Polish politician, not just by the right but most Centrists and leftists as well. The Poles themselves came out in the tens of thousands to protest a fellow Pole being EU President - that's how low their opinion is of him.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/09/donald-tusk-re-elected-as-european-council-president-despite-polish-opposition

Hassan_Rouhani says

marcus says

A secret plan to break up the West would also have the United States looking for new allies to replace the discarded ones. The most obvious would be Russia, the biggest rival within Europe to Germany, France and Britain.

OK, explain this one for me: if "Russia is the biggest rival within Europe to Germany, France and Britain" (I agree with this, btw), why the fuck Germany bending over backwards in order to accomodate Putinfuck's desire to have another pipeline for his gas exports? They push for the project to which US, Poland and host of other European countries strongly object. Donald doesn't tell them to do it - quite contrary, he urged them to scrap the project. Unlike some lip service to possible return of Russiafucks into G8 (I oppose this, btw) which is just words, giving the fucks another pipeline to increase their exports is a concrete action which directly favors Russia and increases Put...

I disagree on Russia being the enemy and also on Germany rising up for domination. It's much simpler you have to make deals with your neighbors to thrive and react to geopolitical situations. The EU as an economic and military union is not a bad idea but countries still need to be free to make their own deals. It's fine if Trump tells them not to partner with Russia but they may do so anyways. New deals will be made and old ones reneged. NATO is obsolete.

We should have an Anglophone Trade and Military Alliance, just for Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, and perhaps Singapore.

mell says

NATO is obsolete.

NATO (US Military, really) is the only thing which keeps Eurofucks from being turned into total Putin's bitches. They are fucking dwarfs militarily speaking. Yes, even Germany. The rest are even bigger jokes. And please spare me the lecture on "benevolent Russia, wanting to live in ethernal peace with their neighbors" - their neighbors who don't enjoy NATO protection know the price of this illusion all too well.

Hassan_Rouhani says

mell says

NATO is obsolete.

NATO (US Military, really) is the only thing which keeps Eurofucks from being turned into total Putin's bitches. They are fucking dwarfs militarily speaking. Yes, even Germany. The rest are even bigger jokes. And please spare me the lecture on "benevolent Russia, wanting to live in ethernal peace with their neighbors" - their neighbors who don't enjoy NATO protection know the price of this illusion all too well.

I'll take that bet anytime. I haven't seen any (eastern) European countries not part of NATO being annexed by Russia lately, have you? The Ukraine/Donetsk is a special case that has been debated to death here.

mell says

Many are illegal in the context that many countries now put the Maghreb countries into the list of safe countries, so there is no right to apply in Europe

The Common European Asylum System of 1999 says anyone has the right to apply. Has that been changed?

mell says

I disagree on that. The racist French is merely a myth. They have given many economically motivated (and few politically motivated) a great life and are being rewarded with mayhem in the banlieus. If you come into a foreign country you have to earn your accolades.

Bullshit. i lived there in the 90's and have spent a lot of time there since. The French are openly racist and don't have any qualms about it I've had friends refused entrance to clubs because they looked North African even though they weren't. The really galling part is being lectured ad infinitum about how poorly Americans treat blacks then if you say what about north africans the french say that's different. SOS Racisme, has documented public and overt institutional racism very thoroughly. Amnesty International has done the same for the abuses of the French police. Go look at their work before you say racist French is merely a myth.

A great life? They were bought in as cheap labour then pretty much locked into the banileus with almost zero opportunity of getting out or getting out of poverty. Put in a job application with an address in one of the banlieue it will be circular filed Well documented. Unemployment in the banlieue is 40-50%.

mell says

How are past mistakes, if any, reason for them to deserve violence and mayhem? Fact is they are the ones giving shelter, money and food and they have every right to close their borders and deport those that don't behave.

Violence is regrettable but understandable. They weren't given food, money, and shelter They were ruthlessly exploited as cheap menial labour. Deport them to where? The statute of algeria of 1947 made algerians french citizens and eliminated algerian citizenship. They don't have a citizenship to be deported to.

I like the french and very well might retire to the languedoc region in the near future But they have behaved incredibly stupidly with north africans and let french pride/arrogance create a giant problem for themselves.

Trump is not trying to destroy the West But his is trying to strangle Socialist Marxist Commie Liberal scumbags worldwide. While his voters hold them down punching them in the gut telling to quit squirming.

bob2356 says

Sorry, strictly middle of the road moderate, 25 year dues paying former republican at that.

Sounds like you are a neocon, like most D supporters. The D establishment is "middle of the road" neo fascism just like the neocons.

bob2356 says

The problem is the right has moved so far right that they can't even see the middle any more. everything left of fascism is leftist tribal affiliation.

I genuinely do not understand a single linear left vs right model of today's politics. Both the right and left extremes are identity politics fascists. Both R and D establishments are actual policy fascists (spying, technocrats, globalism, centralized power, group > individual rights, non stop wars, etc...). Minus nonsense like tyranny bathroom laws, they are identical.

Classic liberalism is the foundation of our political system. Only the libertarians care to push for individual > group rights.

bob2356 says

Violence is regrettable but understandable. They weren't given food, money, and shelter They were ruthlessly exploited as cheap menial labour. Deport them to where? The statute of algeria of 1947 made algerians french citizens and eliminated algerian citizenship. They don't have a citizenship to be deported to.

Has Algeria repaid $2T in Rape & Slavery reparations to France, Italians, Sicilians, Spaniards, Corsicans, and the City of Baltimore, Ireland yet?

Hassan_Rouhani says

mell says

NATO is obsolete.

NATO (US Military, really) is the only thing which keeps Eurofucks from being turned into total Putin's bitches. They are fucking dwarfs militarily speaking. Yes, even Germany. The rest are even bigger jokes. And please spare me the lecture on "benevolent Russia, wanting to live in ethernal peace with their neighbors" - their neighbors who don't enjoy NATO protection know the price of this illusion all too well.

Excellent point. The EU should be kissing our collective a$$.

CBOEtrader says

Excellent point. The EU should be kissing our collective a$$.

But they don't. We protect them, get the bill, AND we keep the oil flowing, which we also get the bill for, while they play backseat driver and tell everybody who much better and nicer they would have done it.

Europe produced 2 huge empires and several great powers. They can stand up for themselves and do a bit of the heavy lifting themselves.

CBOEtrader says

bob2356 says

Sorry, strictly middle of the road moderate, 25 year dues paying former republican at that.

Sounds like you are a neocon, like most D supporters. The D establishment is "middle of the road" neo fascism just like the neocons.

Perfect. I rest my case. The right has moved so far to the fringe of the political spectrum everything is left wing now.

Do you realize neocon stands for neo conservative, as in liberals who moved to conservative. Most came out of the socialist party and social democrats. It would be pretty seriously difficult for someone who registered republican at 18 and actually campaigned for Nixon, Ford, and Reagan to be a liberal who moved conservative. Like Irving Kristol said a neoconservative is a "liberal mugged by reality".

Looks like someone didn't do their homework on what the political terms mean.

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says

But they don't. We protect them, get the bill, AND we keep the oil flowing, which we also get the bill for, while they play backseat driver and tell everybody who much better and nicer they would have done it.

EU has also fallen into a free speech nightmare. Their forced multiculturalism and globalism is now a proven failed experiment.

#freetommyrobinson

CBOEtrader says

Classic liberalism is the foundation of our political system. Only the libertarians care to push for individual > group right

No it's not,, classic liberalism opposed democracy. Didn't read what I wrote I see. Trump endorses classic liberalism free trade also?

Libertarians are just hypocrites who believe the government spends too much money on other people.

bob2356 says

Didn't read what I wrote I see.

I read it. Laughed and moved on. You are deeply confused.

bob2356 says

classic liberalism opposed democracy.

Source? Are you talking about the fact that we are a republic which holds individual rights above mob law?

bob2356 says

Libertarians are just

...just the closest proponents of our constitutional republic? Then we agree.

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says

Europe produced 2 huge empires and several great powers

And two world wars 20 years apart.

bob2356 says

A great life? They were bought in as cheap labour then pretty much locked into the banileus with almost zero opportunity of getting out or getting out of poverty. Put in a job application with an address in one of the banlieue it will be circular filed Well documented. Unemployment in the banlieue is 40-50%.

If they didn't have a great life compared to what they had before, they would go back, wouldn't they?
Health care, education, welfare, with a European standard of living sure beats living in an African hut and hunting with spears.

bob2356 says

No it's not,, classic liberalism opposed democracy. Didn't read what I wrote I see. Trump endorses classic liberalism free trade also?

America was built on the Hamiltonian System of high tariffs and infrastructure investment.

Britain industrialized thanks to 200 previous years of hardcore mercantilism. Britain's world lead vanished a few decades after they embraced Free Trade to protectionist Germany and USA.

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says

Britain's world lead vanished a few decades after they embraced Free Trade to protectionist Germany and USA.

It must be cause and effect ? It couldn't be that they overextended themselves with their empire.

Relative to your point, it would be ironic if having Trump in power and our taking on protectionist policies ends up (in the long run) appearing to be the cause of our continued decreasing influence and relative wealth in the world.

Perhaps this is the master plan of the globalists ?

marcus says

It must be cause and effect ?

That difference was largely due to a United States benefiting from free markets as compared to a HIGHLY regulated great Britain. I'm sure an untapped natural wealth of resources in the USA (as compared to the UK) helped. However, if natural resources were the main driver of wealth creation, then Africa, Australia, and Asia would have all been competitors with the USA.

marcus says

Perhaps this is the master plan of the globalists ?

Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and especially modern day China are the master plan template of the "globalists". The global elites don't want individual freedoms to get in the way of their plans for world domination. See the EU as an example.