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LeonDurham saysNot to mention that those other countries offer far more services paid by tax dollars that we have to pay separately for here.
Says who?
Average employer premium last year was 18,000 according to NCSL. That's money you don't get paid. You contribution isn't the total cost of the plan. plus you kick in on top of that out of pocket.It is an opinion that the money would be paid to employees if the company no longer paid it.
Yes, I forgot. The law of supply and demand is a pseudo theory.The way you apply it is nonsensical. And economics is not at all science.
What a total fucking joke. A 1 paragraph post on a blog? Nothing else? It's true because I say it's true.Tax rates in other countries are no secret. But instead of whining, post a link with contrary information.
It is an opinion that the money would be paid to employees if the company no longer paid it.
That's why it's called compensation package not salary.But now Uncle Sam pays the benefit. Poof!
But now Uncle Sam pays the benefit. Poof!
Uncle Sam: The new single payer plan signed into law by President Sanders provides a boost to both consumers, in the form of an average $5,000 raise, but also to employers, who see a more improved bottom line.
bob2356 saysWhat a total fucking joke. A 1 paragraph post on a blog? Nothing else? It's true because I say it's true.Tax rates in other countries are no secret. But instead of whining, post a link with contrary information
Companies no longer send YOUR money to the insurance company so they obviously send it to YOU instead.
The United States of America 29.1% and 11.9%
2009: Comparison is between a single individual and a married couple with two children.
France: 50.1% and 41.7%
UK: 33.5% and 27.1%
Canada: 31.6% and 21.5%
It is an opinion that the money would be paid to employees if the company no longer paid it.
To be fair, these taxes buys you a lot more than healthcare benefits: also free education for your children (or almost free for universities), and a pension for RETIREMENT.
The US GOVERNMENT already spends AS MUCH on healthcare per capita as other developed countries.
Companies no longer send YOUR money to the insurance company so they obviously send it to YOU instead.If it is your money, than surely the employer will turn it over to you if you ask. Wanna bet on the odds?
Average employer premium last year was 18,000 according to NCSL. That's money you don't get paid. You contribution isn't the total cost of the plan. plus you kick in on top of that out of pocket.I think you should read your own links. As previously posted, for an average family, employee pays roughly 1/3, employer 2/3. So employer's contribution is $18k-minus employee's contribution, which is around $12k. Why is it that the empty barrels always make the most noise?
"Health care spending per person is expected to surpass $10,000 in 2016 and then march steadily higher to $14,944 in 2023."To be a bit more honest, and accurate, for those covered by the employer:
Heraclitusstudent saysThe US GOVERNMENT already spends AS MUCH on healthcare per capita as other developed countries.
and US spends almost twice as much per capita as other developed countries and 14% don't even have health care insurance. But hey just post prices in doctors offices and it will be all better.
Comparing nominal tax rates instead of effective tax rates is useless.In France, I'd be paying 17% more income tax, and there seems to be some sort of pesky wealth tax there, too. But it is true that unbiased analyses are rare, France provides broader social services than healthcare, etc. It is possible that taxes will go up if the USA adopted single payer, and that higher income folks would pay more than they do under employer sponsored plans, and out-of-pocket continue to increase, a la Medicare. But even exchange costs under Obamacare are less as a percentage for higher earners.
Heraclitusstudent says"Health care spending per person is expected to surpass $10,000 in 2016 and then march steadily higher to $14,944 in 2023."To be a bit more honest, and accurate, for those covered by the employer:
The 2016 KFF survey looked at annual average employer contributions to health insurance:
For single plans, employers paid 82% of premiums ($5,306)
For family plans, employers paid 71% of premiums ($12,865)
Employees paid the remaining 18% ($1,129) for single plans and 29% ($5,277) for family plans.
https://www.kff.org/health-costs/press-release/premiums-for-employer-sponsored-family-health-coverage-rise-slowly-for-sixth-straight-year-up-3-but-averaging-18764-in-2017/
This is why most gainfully employed people dont realize the extent of the problem. Try pricing out an Obamacare policy without a subsidy. Prices are absurd.Indeed and that data is available, too.
"the average American spent $9,596 on healthcare"Heraclitusstudent says
So let's see: for a family of Americans with 2 children, that's $38,000. Let's say the median household income is $60K. So that's potentially a tax of 63% IN ADDITION to the taxes you pay.
CBOEtrader saysThis is why most gainfully employed people dont realize the extent of the problem. Try pricing out an Obamacare policy without a subsidy. Prices are absurd.Indeed and that data is available, too.
It doesn't work like that. Healthcare costs are highly skewed. Averages in healthcare are a flawed measure of normal. The median family spends nowhere near that much. Now if your kid has epilepsy or if your brother catches HIV, you will have $8k/month meds to pay for.
bob2356 saysAverage employer premium last year was 18,000 according to NCSL. That's money you don't get paid. You contribution isn't the total cost of the plan. plus you kick in on top of that out of pocket.I think you should read your own links. As previously posted, for an average family, employee pays roughly 1/3, employer 2/3. So employer's contribution is $18k-minus employee's contribution, which is around $12k. Why is it that the empty barrels always make the most noise?
In France, I'd be paying 17% more income tax, and there seems to be some sort of pesky wealth tax there, too.
Averages in healthcare are a flawed measure of normal.Indeed. And if you want to look at employee costs for healthcare as a percent of income (a tax), $5,000 on $60k earnings is 8.3%, but only 1.67% of $300,000. And likewise, if that cost goes away, a better tax cut, percentage-wise, for the lower earner. The unknown is where the resulting balance will reset under socialized medicine. Will that 1.67% go up to 6% or greater? And don't doubt that there would not still be out-of-pocket expenses under socialized medicine, as there are under Medicare. Even in the UK, one can buy supplemental insurance.
Indeed. And if you want to look at employee costs for healthcare as a percent of income (a tax), $5,000 on $60k earnings is 8.3%, but only 1.67% of $300,000
But I do think it is disingenuous to flatly state that everyone will pay less, that the employer will return their contribution to the employees its "their money', etc. Inflexible rigidity on the part of liberals, associated with TDS, means they lose again and again.
But I do think it is disingenuous to flatly state that everyone will pay less
Also, the USA is still leading the world in pharma and biotech, a relatively clean and high-paying industry
I said that for sure some number of people will pay more, but the overall cost to Americans will be 1/2 of what it is now.I doubt that you'd find any bona fide analysis to back up your POV. You can of course assume the costs will be similar to costs in EU countries with socialized medicine, i.e., 1/2, but that analysis is very simplistic, and leaves out other possible costs, e.g., increased taxes, etc.
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France: 50.1% and 41.7%
UK: 33.5% and 27.1%
Canada: 31.6% and 21.5%
and
The United States of America 29.1% and 11.9%
This is a comparison of taxes paid by a household earning the country's average wage as of 2005. Source is the OECD.
https://allnurses.com/nursing-activism-healthcare/countrys-with-socialized-409396.html