patrick.net

marcus says

and the reduced numbers of incoming illegals, that experts say will be unaffected by the wall ?

That's awesome.

How do you prove the reduced numbers of illegals coming over the border if you don't see them or catch them?

Is that like proving a negative?

Or do they call the border patrol AFTER they get in and go "na, na, na, you didn't catch me"?

marcus says

And the fact that democrats don't support a $30 billion dollar wall doesn't prove anything, other than that the obstruction they do is far more pragmatic and sensible than the obstruction republitards did to Obama.

So tell us, what is the Democrats EXACT border security plan, if a wall/barrier doesn't work (you know the same wall/barrier Pelosi voted FOR in 2013)?

marcus says

in a WaPO or NYT list of thousands of Trump lies,

Is there ONE Trump lie you consider important enough to defend?
Just ONE?

marcus says

But my point is that implying that democrats want open borders, when they have been actively promoting massive increases in border security is a lie.

Ok. Now we're talking.

I see your point. You are probably correct about MOST democrats wanting border security. Some are even for the wall. I do think the anti-wall thing is mostly propaganda considering Bill Clinton and even early Obama wanted walls. That's a besides the current discussion though.

What @Patrick is trying to say here (my Gillete mainsplaining moment): First, there are many, many progressives extremists who are saying walls are immoral. Almost all of EU leadership is force feeding millions of economic migrants into Europe. In Europe being a few progressive tyranniyrranical years ahead of us, some countries have CRIMINALIZED criticism of migrant policy as racism.

Here in the US the propagandists seem to be pushing for the same type of limitations. Our constitution makes criminalization far more difficult (thank GOD) but our extreme leftist regressive culture is trying to find ways around it. They label border security itself as racism. They label anyone who wants the wall as a Nazi. Then they push to deplarform in every way.

So yeah, @patrick could have added some exclusions to his statement, but hes not wrong in his observations.

CBOEtrader says

Ok. Now we're talking.

Why could you not simply interpret that from the post, and the senntences that followed your quote. IT was very clear.

CBOEtrader says

do think the anti-wall thing is mostly propaganda considering Bill Clinton and even early Obama wanted walls.

Wrong, the propaganda is that if you're not for a $30 billion or $50 billion dollar wall you're not for walls. OR worse you're not for border security.

THe truth is that we have been building extensive walls for decades, and congress recently allocated $1.2 billion for repairs and extensions of existing walls.
(I fully expect you and Patrick and all the others spouting the propaganda to ignore this fact as much as possible)

This is politics. The reason Ann Coulter is saying Trump is toast without the wall, is that he promised it, and becasue let's face it, a key part of Trumps base are racists that might not vote for Trump in 2020 if he can't even deliver the wall, or at least fight really hard for it. THe wall is symbolic.

CBOEtrader says

First, there are many, many progressives extremists who are saying walls are immoral

That's politics too. But on the left. They're trolling you guys with that, but also catering to a part of the left wing base that is either not so okay with it, or basically opposed to everything TRump, like the republicans were with Obama. It's what the partisans do these days, although nobody does it like the republicans.

marcus says

a key part of Trumps base are racists

FAR FAR FAR fewer racists for trump than anti-trump. Not even close. You are literally making this up as a fantasy in your head. OR prove me wrong and show me your racism stats. HAHA this could be funny.

marcus says

Wrong, the propaganda is that if you're not for a $30 billion or $50 billion dollar wall you're not for walls. OR worse you're not for border security.

The discussion isnt about YOU. Its about Nanci Pelosi, who could choose to accept Trump's deal. "Walls are immoral" LOL.

Also, how would you interpret this https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/14/rasmussen-most-likely-voters-say-border-wall-not-i/ " By the numbers: 53 percent of likely U.S. voters say it’s better for the country for borders to be tightly controlled. On the flip side, 39 percent say it’s best to have borders nearly like a sieve — to open them “to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal,” Rasmussen said. "

39% want borders nearly like a sieve. You think these are Trump supporters or maybe they are the dems?

also FYI “ Support for President Trump’s wall along the U.S.-Mexico border is at an all-time high weeks into a partial government shutdown that began over a border security dispute for funding,” the Washington Examiner reported. “According to the results of an ABC News and Washington Post poll … 42 percent of Americans support a wall. That is up from 34 percent one year ago and a previous high of 37 percent in 2017.” "

CBOEtrader says

FAR FAR FAR fewer racists for trump than anti-trump. Not even close.

Look I would be the first to admit there are different kinds of racism. Anti white racism is very common among non-white minority groups. I'm really not interested in some kind of comparison about numbers or degree. I think I get what you mean.

It should have been obvious (except to you) that I was referring to white racists. You can deny that they are a significant part of Trumps base. Maybe we need a new word other than racist, for people that are overly obsessed with racial issues. But one thing for sure (and this is independent of whether the wall is a good use of those 10s of billions or not), and that is the wall is politically popular with that group. The group that fears the loss of majority status of white people in America.

I don't know, maybe the protestants 150 years ago that feared all the non protestant Irish, Italians, and other Catholic or Orthodox folks coming in to the country were 100% justified and correct in their fears. But they lost, and the population we have now was seeded by working folks that came in when the earlier protestant citizens lost that battle.

IT's stupid Trump politics and it's a waste.


marcus says

THe truth is that we have been building extensive walls for decades, and congress recently allocated $1.2 billion for repairs and extensions of existing walls.
(I fully expect you and Patrick and all the others spouting the propaganda to ignore this fact as much as possible)

marcus says

Maybe we need a new word other than racist, for people that are overly obsessed with racial issues.

The wall is only a racial issue to the anti trumpers.

Vast majority of Trump supporters dont care about race, at all.

marcus says

The group that fears the loss of majority status of white people in America.

Sure. That tiny irrelevant group of tens of racists probably do want the wall.

People like David Duke are only important or relevant to the left. They are outcasts on the right who the left desperately tries to associate...again because the left is completely fixated on race.

Vast majority of Trump supporters dont care at all, and want all the racists to stfu.

CBOEtrader says

So yeah, @patrick could have added some exclusions to his statement, but hes not wrong in his observations.

Sure, there are a variety of opinions on both sides, but by and large, Democrats have been so forgiving of illegal immigration that they give the deep impression that they seek to dissolve the border entirely.

* refusal to even use the correct word "illegal", and deliberately misleading conflation of "immigrant" with "illegal immigrant"
* "sanctuary" laws which prevent federal employees from doing their job
* relentless human interest stories about illegals, absolutely zero stories about poor US citizens harmed by illegal immigration (the press is almost entirely Democrats)
* opposition to the wall

CBOEtrader says

That tiny irrelevant group of tens of racists probably do want the wall.

Lol. That's telling.

marcus says

THe truth is that we have been building extensive walls for decades, and congress recently allocated $1.2 billion for repairs and extensions of existing walls.
(I fully expect you and Patrick and all the others spouting the propaganda to ignore this fact as much as possible)

My error, it was $1.6 Billion.

What happened to the border wall money Congress already gave Trump?
https://qz.com/1516960/trump-speech-tonight-he-hasnt-spent-border-wall-money-he-already-has/

I won't be holding my breath until you guys talk about the degree to which this spoils your dishonest narrative. If democrats are so opposed to border security or so opposed to a wall, how do you explain this ?

marcus says

I won't be holding my breath until you guys talk about the degree to which this spoils your dishonest narrative. If democrats are so opposed to border security or so opposed to a wall, how do you explain this ?

"Walls are immoral". Is Pelosi an outsider or extremist Democrat? Silly me, I thought she was speaker of the house.

CBOEtrader says

"Walls are immoral". Is Pelosi an outsider or extremist Democrat?

Funny really, You will say that literally hundreds of Trump lies in a given month aren't lies, or that they are meaningless chatter, but you want to lock on to this one phrase from Pelosi!!

I don't know, perhaps she's just trolling the morons (no offense).

CONSIDER REALITY. CONGRESS ALLOCATED $1.6 BILLION TO BE SPENT ON FENCE REPAIRS AND EXTENSIONS LAST SPRING. SHUMER AND PELOSI OFFERED AN ADDITIONAL $1.3 BILLION IN DECEMBER !!!!!!!!!

Don't you get it ? Actions speak louder than words !!!!

To say democrats are opposed to border security or that they used to be for walls and are now against wall is world class FOX new style retarded lies !! When I say it's fox news style - I REALLY mean it. Because it's an accepted fact in the reality based world that Fox News has far more influence on policy than any department or cabinet member in the federal government.

marcus says

I don't know, perhaps she's just trolling the morons.

Are you suggesting this is her "total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the US" moment?

Patrick says

Democrats have been so forgiving of illegal immigration that they give the deep impression that they seek to dissolve the border entirely.

This is the new progressives though as opposed to the blue dog dems for example. Trump is basically a blue dog dem. He would have been a D Potus in 1988 for sure

CBOEtrader says

This is the new progressives though as opposed to the blue dog dems for example. Trump is basically a blue dog dem. He would have been a D Potus in 1988 for sure

I don't know what you're talking about.

Ronald Reagan did a massive amnesty for all the illegals in the 80s. GWB was WAYYYY easier on border security and illegal aliens than Obama was.

Do you guys ever take reality in to consideration ?

marcus says

Ronald Reagan did a massive amnesty for all the illegals in the 80s. GWB was WAYYYY easier on border security and illegal aliens than Obama was.

This is contradictory how? This sounds like proof that trump is right and the dems are just brainwashed.

We are literally agreeing on something and somehow you think we are at odds here.

In a closed door meeting, Nancy disrobes in front of Trump, turning him to stone.

willywonka says

In a closed door meeting, Nancy disrobes in front of Trump, turning him to stone.

So now Nancy can say, I can easily get Trump "hard."

marcus says

Rocketmanjoe says

CBOEtrader says

We are literally agreeing on something and somehow you think we are at odds here.

Ahhh so you agree that Democrats are for border security.

The wall has traditionally been a Democrat cause yes. Progressives are a different beast and unfortunately get the press attention. Progressives do SEEM to be the majority of dems these days. Show me stats if I'm wrong

So nobody has noticed the Leaks have all stopped?

This shut down will go on until Indictments are handed down and Mueller slinks back into the Liberal Cesspool he crawled out of.

The border wall has nothing to do with it. Trump could have EO'd the Wall.
Once he cleans house, he will be able to pass anything he hints should be done. Because the remaining swamp rats that don't get ensnared in the house cleaning.
Wont dare to hold the Globalist Establishment resist all sensible legislation at all cost. Of course Soros will be pale and blue by then.

Rocketmanjoe says

Muslims use the northern border, much easier to sneak in .

Why do I even bother with these sock puppets?

Border rancher: 'We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal'

LORDSBURG, N.M. — Ranchers and farmers near the U.S.-Mexico border have been finding prayer rugs on their properties in recent months, according to one rancher who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation by cartels who move the individuals.

The mats are pieces of carpet that those of the Muslim faith kneel on as they worship.

"There’s a lot of people coming in not just from Mexico," the rancher said. "People, the general public, just don’t get the terrorist threats of that. That’s what’s really scary. You don’t know what’s coming across. We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal. It’s not just Mexican nationals that are coming across."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/border-rancher-weve-found-prayer-rugs-out-here-its-unreal

Tenpoundbass says

So nobody has noticed the Leaks have all stopped?

Why is this relevant? Explain please

CBOEtrader says

Why is this relevant? Explain please

Gov't shutdown?

About killer lettuce meme above, see this: https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2019/jan/15/viral-image/did-lettuce-kill-more-americans-undocumented-immig/

How many people died of foodborne illnesses from lettuce in 2018?

The number appears to be at least five.

If you prorate Texas’s 39 [illegal] homicide convictions to the country as a whole — simply using population — it works out to 445 nationally.

As we’ve emphasized, these are back-of-the-envelope calculations. But even if these estimates — a couple hundred homicides by undocumented immigrants — are high by a factor of 10, they almost certainly outpaced the five lettuce deaths in 2018.

Rocketmanjoe says

That's not a prayer rug I can tell you that much for sure.

I'm sure they're wrong here too.

...."On a visit to the Arizona border, Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo got a firsthand look at smuggling routes.

"We've found copies of the Koran, we have found prayer rugs, we have found a lot of stuff written in Arabic, so it's not just people from Mexico coming across that border," Tancredo, a Republican, explains."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stopping-terror-at-the-border/

Probably not the Koran either, right.... Maybe mistaken for the Yellow Pages?

Who gives a fuck: prayer rugs or no prayer rugs, mislims or no muslims... Even if the border was stormed by blonde blue-eyed Swedes I would say BUILD THE FUCKING WALL.
Obey our fucking laws or GTFO.

marcus says

Who's third world diseased hands picked that lettuce.

RC2006 says

Who's third world diseased hands picked that lettuce.

A god damned dodooo hand butt wiper that's who!

Rocketmanjoe says

Nice an article from 2005

Caught ya! I was hoping you'd notice that. Tough to blame it on Trump, isn't it?

Rocketmanjoe says

Next will you show me this one from Breitbart?

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2014/07/09/muslim-prayer-rug-found-on-arizona-border-by-independendent-american-security-contractors/

Who was President in 2014? Remind me.

Rocketmanjoe says

Aren't you always telling us how we shouldn't believe something from an anonymous source? Fake news?

Good boy, now you see how CBS News is also FAKE. You're learning!

Rocketmanjoe says

Actually, I think I'll go with the guy from Yale to know what a prayer rug looks like.

What about that Koran that was found. Was that just a issue of Readers Digest?

marcus says

Isn't contaminated greens caused (note spelling, just because ) by the illegal immigrant farm workers who are defecating in the lettuce fields?

As Reagan said it best, if government were to sneak away for a while, we wouldn't miss them. He was right.

Yes, @onvacation - a big outbreak of E. Coli was linked to a California Plant where they make pre-packaged salads. Let's just say they don't voluntarily use e-verify.

The pessimistic view is that Trump will eventually have to give in as the anger of furloughed workers grow, despite the shutdown being the leftoids fault. The optimistic view is that Trump strikes a deal that involved higher taxes on the (mostly leftoid globalist) uber-wealthy maybe coupled with a small inconsequential amnesty - perhaps DACA light - and also maybe basic (minimal/catastrophical only) universal healthcare for everybody and outflank and outplay the reigning Dems, getting his border security.

Wait a while longer until the back pay the workers equals the proposed budget for the wall. Then fire the workers and use that money for the wall instead.

Let's say we fire half of the 800k workers and that those workers average $70k/year each (including benefits). Hmmm.... $5.7 Billion / (800k / 2) / $70k * 365 days/year = 74 days of shutdown needed!

SunnyvaleCA says

Wait a while longer until the back pay the workers equals the proposed budget for the wall. Then fire the workers and use that money for the wall instead.

Let's say we fire half of the 800k workers and that those workers average $70k/year each (including benefits). Hmmm.... $5.7 Billion / (800k / 2) / $70k * 365 days/year = 74 days of shutdown needed!

Exxxcellllent!! (Grinning while touching ends of fingers together)

Then hire back those workers at half pay to then build the wall!!!!