patrick.net

What's the point of a camaro with anything less than V8, also do they still make them in manual?

@tenpoundbass the tactic they tried on you is old and profitable for the dealership. Basically they shake your confidence in your credit history and get you to sign papers at a higher interest rate than the bank actually is offering you. You don’t see the bank’s approval letter at 6%. You just hear from the finance department guy that her rate is 10%. You sign, and they split the extra interest with the bank 50-50. Over the life of the loan, 4% could be $3500 extra, and so the dealer just made $1750 for lying to you.

Best defense against this is what you did, get your own CR. But even better than that is to actually apply for the loan in person at our local bank. They’ll approve you and tell you the rate. Then you take that letter to the dealership and present it when you find a car you want to buy. That gives them no wiggle room to lie to you and you get the best financing possible.

I know about this because I sold cars for a minute back in my early 20s.

Best just to go to car dealerships with loan already. I hate when dealerships talk in terms of payments instead of total amount its such a bullshit game.

RC2006 says

Best just to go to car dealerships with loan already. I hate when dealerships talk in terms of payments instead of total amount its such a bullshit game.

Exactly, it's really easy to call your bank and get their car loan rates. Then just plug the rate into any online payment calculator, and you'll know all the available monthly payments ahead of time, so the dealer can't screw with you.

Wifey had some sort of VIP program through her company that said she gets invoice pricing, and kept harping on it and told the dealer about it. I told her to just zip it, as we will pay LESS than that price for her car. She kept saying "how", this is suppose to be the best deal because it's through a major corporation.

When I got done with the dealer and we left, she said, I guess that VIP Program wasn't that great, after all......

RC2006 says

What's the point of a camaro with anything less than V8, also do they still make them in manual?

I agree I was just surprised they had those other options. Yes they still make a manual in all engines.

Quigley says

Best defense against this is what you did, get your own CR. But even better than that is to actually apply for the loan in person at our local bank. They’ll approve you and tell you the rate. Then you take that letter to the dealership and present it when you find a car you want to buy. That gives them no wiggle room to lie to you and you get the best financing possible.

I know about this because I sold cars for a minute back in my early 20s.

You're absolutely right I should kick my self for not thinking of that. I do have a 875 credit score.

All my wife's doing she handles setting the bill pay systems and sweat the $ amounts between the savings and checking.
I would probably have a crappy credit score if not for that woman

Tenpoundbass says

I do have a 875 credit score.

How? I thought it only went to 850?
What I do know is that your credit score is like Schroedinger’s Cat. Look at it and it’s going to change states.

Hate car shopping. I pay cash and still had to walk out because dickheads tried to sneak extra 1000 for themselves into government taxes.

Quigley says

Tenpoundbass says

I do have a 875 credit score.

How? I thought it only went to 850?

Maybe that's Marcus math?

I'm sorry I meant 775.

Tenpoundbass says

I'm sorry I meant 775.

Whew.... I thought for a second Marcus was wearing off on you.. good thing.

I just checked, mine's 842. The knuckleheads at the bank never leave me alone when I come in.

Quigley says

I know about this because I sold cars for a minute back in my early 20s.

I did too. Did you use a 4-square?

Obligatory:

Even the total price before 'Market Adjust' is bull shit. I can't read it all but you can see the destination charge. That's a BS fee they put there to knock the price you pay up. Another common one is a fee for it sitting on their lot. Don't ever pay any of that shiite.

Ha! There is a $1700 gas guzzler tax! hahaha

Naperville Illinois wow...

just_dregalicious says

Even the total price before 'Market Adjust' is bull shit. I can't read it all but you can see the destination charge. That's a BS fee they put there to knock the price you pay up. Another common one is a fee for it sitting on their lot. Don't ever pay any of that shiite.

I think the intent was to show the $20000 "market adjustment" bullshit. Otherwise yeah, I would have loved to see the whole window sticker with detailed pricing and in high res so that I could read it.

MrMagic says

Whew.... I thought for a second Marcus was wearing off on you.. good thing.

I just checked, mine's 842. The knuckleheads at the bank never leave me alone when I come in.

LOL, I just checked mine. I'm at 841. Got me beat.

Zero debt and pay off my two cards each month.

Last time I was at the bank, I wanted a low limit credit card for a new business - but said they weren't allowed they couldn't run my credit. They gave me $25k without a blink. No credit pull either.

joshuatrio says

LOL, I just checked mine. I'm at 841. Got me beat.

Zero debt and pay off my two cards each month.

Last time I was at the bank, I wanted a low limit credit card for a new business - but said they weren't allowed they couldn't run my credit. They gave me $25k without a blink. No credit pull either.

It's nice to be "wanted" at the banks. LOL.

I do the same, have zero debt, except for a partial mortgage. The stock market was returning (except for last year) a lot more than my mortgage rate, so instead of locking up cash in the house, I let it ride in the market where it was more liquid (plus paying a higher return) since there is no equity/value growth in the housing market here.

We throw a ton of stuff on the credit card, primarily to rack up points/air miles, then pay it complete off at the end of the month.

My bank was starting to really bug me when I went in to cash a check or get cash. A soon as I swiped my ATM card for identity, and they saw my balances come up, their eyes would get real wide and they would immediately say "Would you like to talk to one of our investment bankers"?

I finally told them to put in big RED LETTERS on my account when it pops up "DON'T ASK". They've finally calmed down.

MrMagic says

My bank was starting to really bug me when I went in to cash a check or get cash. A soon as I swiped my ATM card for identity, and they saw my balances come up, their eyes would get real wide and they would immediately say "Would you like to talk to one of our investment bankers"?

Lol, yep.

MrMagic says

@tenpoundbass the tactic they tried on you is old and profitable for the dealership. Basically they shake your confidence in your credit history and get you to sign papers at a higher interest rate than the bank actually is offering you.

I think the reason is the "looking beyond the sale" tactic. When they (not quite) close the deal promising one set of terms you are then thinking about how great driving the car is and aren't any longer concerned with the payment terms. When those terms are suddenly switched, you don't want the good feelings to evaporate (and the "deal" to evaporate) so you wind up taking whatever (lousy) deal they propose at that moment.

The same phenomenon works the same way with trade-ins too: promise customer great deal, wait a few days, then offer customer something significantly less. With the trade-in, they'll delay the "final inspection" — our trade-in specialist won't be here until
Monday, you'll have to sit tight on this great deal until then. During that time you'll be "looking beyond the sale" to all the great things to come. When the final inspection and final sale happen, the trade-in is much lower than "promised," but since you've been imaging how great everything is going to be, you've sunk several days of time waiting, and you told those 15 Craigs List buyers you are trading in, you go along with the bad deal.

zzyzzx says

I think the intent was to show the $20000 "market adjustment" bullshit. Otherwise yeah, I would have loved to see the whole window sticker with detailed pricing and in high res so that I could read it.

I don't have any issue with a $20k "market adjustment" — it's in plain black-and-white for all to see. Let them charge whatever the market will bear.

I let it ride in the market where it was more liquid (plus paying a higher return) since there is no equity/value growth in the housing market here.

Growth in the housing market is not relevant, it is the interest on the loan. The issue is whether the stock market investment is paying more than the interest costs. The housing market growth would be relevant in a rent-buy decision. Since you already own the home, the home will have the same "appreciation" regardless of any mortgage.

HeadSet says

Growth in the housing market is not relevant, it is the interest on the loan. The issue is whether the stock market investment is paying more than the interest costs. The housing market growth would be relevant in a rent-buy decision. Since you already own the home, the home will have the same "appreciation" regardless of any mortgage.

Nope, growth in the market IS relevant. The appreciation (or lack of) has a big bearing on overall investment value, outside of the financing cost versus stock market return. It's two different animals that work together. Here's why.

One example: House paid off, local appreciation running 3%, what's your net gain on the house investment? 3%
How about house paid off, local appreciation running -3%, what's your net gain? -3%

Example 2: Mortgage on house, interest rate: 3.5%, Cash invested in stock market instead returning 6%, local appreciation running 3%, what's your net gain on the house? 5.5%
How about Mortgage on house at 3.5%, Cash invested in stock market making 6%, local appreciation running -3%, what's your net gain? -0.5%

You would be making more in a positive appreciation market and wouldn't be losing as much in a negative appreciation market in example 2 carrying a mortgage.

Plus, I didn't factor in any equity buildup from the mortgage payments, since that would be same in both situations.

Example 2: Mortgage on house, interest rate: 3.5%, Cash invested in stock market instead returning 6%, local appreciation running 3%, what's your net gain on the house? 5.5%

I see that differently. Whether the house appreciates or not does not matter, you already own it. The decision is still "if you can beat the mortgage with stocks, leave the mortgage be and put the cash into stocks." The decision is not "if the house appreciates/depreciates, pay off the loan."