patrick.net

Great interview!

Start the US wing of the party.

I like how his aim is for equilibrium rather than pure individual libertarianism or community socialism.

In doing so we are forced to admit the slippery slope of percieved and real community duties to the individual. The appropriate solution is to identify the balance, which probably should be constantly reevaluated.

The societal and personal self audit required should result in moral humility over destructive righteousness.

personal

CBOEtrader says

I like how his aim is for equilibrium rather than pure individual libertarianism or community socialism.

Yes, it's the first time I've heard it put that way. And it strikes me as obviously correct.

We all want to belong somewhere, because that is what gives life meaning. We also want freedom from those very obligations that come with belonging.

Once again, the Right sees things as a balance rather than absolute black and white as the Left does.

I also loved his point about how the global warming hysteria is exactly like other religious fervors, and is analogous to the story of Noah and the flood. "We must repent or the world will end."

thx, this is very interesting. Baudet is intelligent, rational, and well-spoken - all of these are rare in a politician. May be there is a hope for rational politicians...

Patrick says

“There's a proper reawakening across Europe going on”

I think he has a lot in common with Douglas Murray.

I like this guy, pro-Western Civ. Thanks for posting the interview , Patrick

And a new term: Oikophobia ("Fear of home surroundings")

The Political equivalent of the "Invented here" prejudice against using internal developments that some Organizations have.

Taranto of WSJ also wrote an article about the Ground Zero mosque and the Elite's condescending attitude towards criticism of it, it's behind a paywall but I found a lengthy quote here, also dealing with the tension between Oikophobic Jews and Israeli Jews:
https://www.israpundit.org/oikophobia-why-the-liberal-elite-finds-americans-revolting/

Where's his Hitler mustache?

From the OP:

The same way that I'm now bringing it across to you. Of course, the exact wording and focus depends on the kind of audience that I have in front of me and on the kind of questions they ask. But I think, in general, people are very capable to get the point that someone is trying to make. And I don't think that all the misunderstandings that the newspapers fabricate resonate very strongly with the general people. Theirs is a kind of scholasticism. In the 13th century, monks would debate for years on end how many angels would fit on a needlepoint. These scholastic debates, that's what we have in the newspapers today. Like, “Is the speech that Mr. Baudet gave an echo of Italian fascism, or is it more like Francoism, or is it rather Germany in the 30s?” That kind of thing. The general public is like, "What?" They understand that all such comparisons are just ridiculous. They're making it up to show their fellow journalists how ‘righteous’ they are. The general people, they see someone who cares about their country, who has the intellectual inventory to fight the people currently in power.


FAP FAP FAP

@Patrick, not sure what happened to comment 3 from CBOETrader that was here earlier in the day but kindly explain what was "personal' about my comment for pointing out that he is the founder and the current political leader of the right wing political party Forum for Democracy.

As stated in my deleted "personal" comment when a country or political party, consulting group etc. is using the words "democracy" or "freedom"
in their title, they are neither.

On March 20, provincial councils were elected in all of the 12 provinces of the Netherlands. The most significant outcome of the election was the entrance into the Senate of the Forum for Democracy (FvD), led by Thierry Baudet. The far-right, near-fascist party won 12 out of 75 seats.

If this is the "hope" for the Netherlands and the "proper" reawakening - that shit was tried back in the 1930s and the Dutch were not too keen on being occupied.

Perhaps my reference to a bit of ethnic cleansing via whatever means is suitable/palatable to the public to make the population a bit whiter did not sit well or was it the reference to enhanced interrogation techniques and internment camps ?

This country is totally fucked - beyond hope outside of a bloody revolution - it this line of thinking gets too far along here to really infect the powers that be.

Was it my question as to when Trump and/or Bolsonaro was going to congratulate him and recognize him as the official Prime Minister ?

Or was it my question concerning Patrick's political leanings ?

Was it the part about military parades and jack booted goose stepping troops ?

Baudet is going to downplay his real views and agenda the same as any other politician...he did sign a letter though back in November of 2016 asking Trump to reopen the investigation in flight MH17 - does that make him a "patriot" ?

Kakistocracy says

On March 20, provincial councils were elected in all of the 12 provinces of the Netherlands. The most significant outcome of the election was the entrance into the Senate of the Forum for Democracy (FvD), led by Thierry Baudet. The far-right, near-fascist party won 12 out of 75 seats.

If this is the "hope" for the Netherlands and the "proper" reawakening - that shit was tried back in the 1930s and the Dutch were not too keen on being occupied.

MisterLearnToCode says

Theirs is a kind of scholasticism. In the 13th century, monks would debate for years on end how many angels would fit on a needlepoint. These scholastic debates, that's what we have in the newspapers today. Like, “Is the speech that Mr. Baudet gave an echo of Italian fascism, or is it more like Francoism, or is it rather Germany in the 30s?” That kind of thing. The general public is like, "What?" They understand that all such comparisons are just ridiculous.

MLTC - not sure who gave Patrick 6 up votes by I gave the down vote for embracing a right wing fuck wit extraordinaire.

The world doesn't need this kind of hope - it is not going real well down in Brazil at the moment either - actually kind of shitty

As for the answer if that was part of the fuckwit's response - I would not bother to reprint it - the second part of your comment

We live in a country where universities are promoting "Whiteness" studies, which is basically a hate-fest of anything identified with traditional American culture: Protestant Work Ethic, Civic Participation, Volunteerism, Earning your Keep, etc.

Where ethnic groups are lobbying to be excluded from the "White" Category, such as I posted about Arabs and Persians (!!!Whose own name, Ay-ran/Aryran/Iran!!!!, FFS!).

Where White or Whiteness has become code for anything bad and never used positively.

Where people fake Hate Crimes and get off because the target of their smear were Whites, they themselves being Gay, Black, and Hollywood and thus superior and safe.

But we're complaining about "Fascism".

WTF ? - comment 14 - not going into this line of bullshit again are we ?

Buadet is a Dutch version of David Duke, Richard Spencer, Stephen Miller, George Wallace and others all rolled into one convenient little package of hate

Hmm, I didn't see shit about Racial Supremacy, only a love for traditional Dutch Values and the amazing 19th Century, a time of incredible growth and vitality and freedom.

I notice you are an avid Unz reader, at least of the Trump-skeptic crowd. What do YOU think of HBD?

Roger Scruton coined the term “oikophobia” (from the Greed oikos for “home”) to describe the fear of one’s fellow countrymen. And there seems to be rather a lot of it among the gentry liberals who make up America’s ruling class.

In fact, another piece on reacting to the election, by Tim Kreider in The Week, is titled "I love America. It's Americans I hate." Writes Kreider, “The public is a swarm of hostile morons, I told her. You don't need to make them understand you; you just need to defeat them, or wait for them die. . . . A few of us are talking, after a couple drinks, about buying guns; if it comes to a fascist state or civil war, we figure, we don't want the red states to be the only ones armed.”

“A vote for Trump,” Kreider continues, “is kind of like a murder.” Though his piece concludes on a (slightly) more hopeful note, the point is clear: Americans, at least Trump-voting Americans, are “pathetically dumb and gullible, uncritical consumers of any disinformation that confirms their biases.”

It’s gotten worse since Election Day, but there’s nothing new about this. I’ve been reading Nancy Isenberg’s White Trash: The 400-Year Untold History of Class in America, and this categorization of lower and working-class whites as (to coin a word) “deplorables” goes way back. And we’ve certainly seen it before this election.

Angelo Codevilla wrote in 2010: “Its attitude is key to understanding our bipartisan ruling class. Its first tenet is that ‘we’ are the best and brightest while the rest of Americans are retrograde, racist, and dysfunctional unless properly constrained.” Most ruling classes think that sort of thing about the ruled, of course, but as Codevilla notes, it sits poorly with American notions of equality.

And in a notorious Yale Law Journal article, feminist law professor Wendy Brown wrote about an experience in which, after a wilderness hike, she returned to her car to find it wouldn’t start. A man in an NRA hat spent a couple of hours helping her get it going, but rather than display appreciation for this act of unselfishness, Brown wrote that she was lucky she had friends along, as a guy like that was probably a rapist.

Another law professor, Douglas Laycock, wrote an article in response entitled, appropriately enough, Vicious Stereotypes In Polite Society. In polite society, expressing fear of unknown blacks is unacceptable; expressing fear of working-class white men, on the other hand, is not. “It is useful to consider how the story would have been told if Professor Brown’s car had broken down in Harlem instead of in the mountains. Suppose her benefactor had been a young black male with a radical political button. ... I am confident that her report of the encounter would have been very different.”

As Isenberg’s White Trash notes, the desire to feel superior to somebody is a powerful human drive, and it has often been aimed at poor and working-class whites. But it’s not very attractive, and contempt is likely to be returned with contempt. Those who are still grappling with the reality that Donald J. Trump will be sworn in as president next week may want to take a look in the mirror.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/01/13/donald-trump-class-rural-white-democrats-glenn-reynolds-column/96413412/

MisterLearnToCode says

Hmm, I didn't see shit about Racial Supremacy, only a love for traditional Dutch Values and the amazing 19th Century, a time of incredible growth and vitality and freedom.

Neither did the German people at the onset of the 1930s.

No matter how you slice it, dice it, color it, cover it up, disguise it, redecorate it, whatever - this guys is another little package of hate waiting to explode an exploit with the likes of Spencer and Miller.

That love for "traditional" Dutch Values - wtf are those. What a complete and total crock of shit, bullshit and the finest GOP variety as well.

Similar to "traditional" American values ?

White, Christian (Protestant preferred and then the correct denomination only), posses the ability to wrap one's self in the flag and simultaneously ignore the constitution, quote a few Bible passages (real or made up), follow your Potus right or wrong and if you don't - you are a commie pinko fag who should either love America or get the fuck out.

Those values ?

MisterLearnToCode says

As Isenberg’s White Trash notes, the desire to feel superior to somebody is a powerful human drive, and it has often been aimed at poor and working-class whites.

Donald Trump and his family ?

I'll give him credit though - he looks down on everyone equally and sadly he isn't better than anyone - anywhere

Kakistocracy says

Neither did the German people at the onset of the 1930s.

That's rubbish. Phrenology and Racial Supremacy were widely held around the world in the 1920s-1930s. Harvard Professors continued to asset a link between Skull measurements and Intellectual Capacity into the 1950s, they used to film inbound students nude to build a database of superior elites.

Kakistocracy says

That love for "traditional" Dutch Values - wtf are those. What a complete and total crock of shit, bullshit and the finest GOP variety as well.

"Bourgeois Values", like Punctuality, eschewing the Dole or Dependence on private/public charities, Work Ethic, Civic Participation, etc.

Kakistocracy says

White, Christian (Protestant preferred and then the correct denomination only), posses the ability to wrap one's self in the flag and simultaneously ignore the constitution, quote a few Bible passages (real or made up), follow your Potus right or wrong and if you don't - you are a commie pinko fag who should either love America or get the fuck out.

See above; Leftist hate of "Bourgeois Values. "

Another one would be putting primitive heart-ripping ritual sacrifice as the equivalent of the Eucharist, or placing Stone Age Scratchings or a few bent peices of Metal or slapping some paint on a Canvas randomly as the equivalent of Hieronomous Bosch or Albert Durer.

MisterLearnToCode says

Leftist hate of "Bourgeois Values. "

WTF - the total bullshit we claim as Traditional American Values in this country ?

Work ethic - if you are rich and cheat - you get rewarded - if your poor - fuck you. 10 to20

Civic Participation - If my daddy or I can buy a seat in congress - we are patriots - don't look while we accept bribes and payoffs from contractors, consultants, lobbysists etc. and help write laws to benefit our narrow interest and fuck everyone else especially the people who voted for us. (Bolsonaro and Trump are doing that very thing)

MisterLearnToCode says

That's rubbish

No - that was one of many clever things Hitler did.

On a side note not sure if you ever caught on - but during those big rallies like at Nuremberg, there was always a drum corp.

Those drummers would very slowly start drumming during the start of fuckwit's speeches - pretty much in tempo with a normal heartbeat, softly as well to not attract a lot of attention and as the speech droned on and the fuckwit became more animated and hysterical - the drum beats increased as well in both tempo and loudness to help whip the crowd into a frenzy so they were ready to "follow" their god despite the stupid and outright lies coming out of his piehole.

Kakistocracy says

WTF - the total bullshit we claim as Traditional American Values in this country ?

Work ethic - if you are rich and cheat - you get rewarded - if your poor - fuck you. 10 to20

Civic Participation - If my daddy or I can buy a seat in congress - we are patriots - don't look while we accept bribes and payoffs from contractors, consultants, lobbysists etc. and help write laws to benefit our narrow interest and fuck everyone else especially the people who voted for us. (Bolsonaro and Trump are doing that very thing)

Can you see why your arguments get pigeonholed as generic "Anti-Americanism"?

Corruption and Special Exceptions for the Rich (ie Harvard Cheating, Ivy League Anti-Asian Admissions) are hated precisely because the go against those Whiteness notions of meritocracy.

In many inferior non-Western Civilizations, what we call nepotism they call "Family Values" and have no problem with it (thats actually based on a quote by Suharto). Indeed the idea is held by all members of a society. Look what happens to the IT help desk when a South Asian manager takes over. In 3-4 years it's almost entirely South Asian, and remarkably the same ethnics/caste/extended family as the Manager's.

MisterLearnToCode says

Can you see why your arguments get pigeonholed as generic "Anti-Americanism"?

Have you noticed I do not give a damn. Not one - none - nada - zero

I am not going to be defined by the tried and true GOP definitions are what constitutes pro or anti-American attitudes etc.

What are American values?

The answer: It depends.

Vanessa Beasley, an associate professor in the department of communication studies at Vanderbilt University, compares the phrase, "American values" to a Rorschach test— in which a person looks for an image within symmetrical inkblots. The test prompts different people to see different things. [10 Mysteries of the Mind]

"It means whatever that group of constituents wants it to mean," she said.

After the State of the Union address, in which Obama called upon the nation to "reclaim" American values, LiveScience went looking for a common definition. Big surprise: We didn't find just one.

Depending on whom you ask, this phrase can offer insight into our national political rhetoric, as Beasley describes. It can also offer a window onto our collective psychology and help to explain characteristics of our society, according to some research that links values to economic systems.

https://www.livescience.com/18154-american-values-state-union-politics.html

MLTC has his American Dream - I have mine. Mine is not yours and I do not expect yours to be mine.

Same with those "Traditional American Values".

Those "Traditional American Values" in my lifetime have morphed into something that is ugly, full of greed and corruption with little to no adherence to anything Jesus taught unless it can be twisted around to hell and back to fit the needs of the right, far right, alt right and anyone else pretending to be a follower who supports policies that fly in the face of those teachings.

Jefferson had a theory about the origin of American values, about those eternal truths he had glimpsed in the summer of 1776. He revealed it in earlier writings. According to Jefferson, American values go back to the Saxon world before the Norman Conquest in 1066, and before that to the forests of Germany. It was there, in the words of historian Ellis, Jefferson believed was “a set of people who lived freely and harmoniously, without kings or lords to rule over them, working and owning their land as sovereign agents.

https://www.readthespirit.com/ourvalues/america-where-do-american-values-come-from/

Not seeing all of the rest of the bullshit we have now....

Patrick says

You want to turn the clock back?
Absolutely. ...

Even though the traditionalists might be the majority at the moment, non-traditionalists are reproducing and immigrating much faster than the traditionalists are reproducing and immigrating. The only way to return to traditional values is to change the reproducing&immigration imbalance or, somehow, convert the way of thinking of those new people. All signs seem to point to that change not happening.

MLTC et al. - This is what I think is un-American....

Blind unwavering support for a Potus and administration that thinks the constitution is either a ship located somewhere in the country but not concerned enough to care where exactly since it can't be politicized at the moment or else considers the constitution an advanced form of constipation.

That being said Baudet is not any different than Bolsonaro, Dutere or any other strongman or wanna be including Potus.

May is no different than Corbyn, Macron is no different than Royale, Merkel is no different than Nahles, and Jeb!!!/Romney/Flake is no different than Biden/Harris/Booker.

All think a slow growing developed post-industrial society needs to be absolutely inundated with unskilled Third Worlders from utterly alien environments in massive numbers with next to no vetting.

That day is over, it is anti-democratic. People like their home and a sense of belonging, and not bringing Mogadishu to Minnesota.

Jefferson was all in favor of building a Navy of Heavy Frigates to beat the shit out of North African pirates than paying tributes, which Adams believed was the best course of action. I am reading Dawn Like Thunder and literally read excerpts of his letter-debate with Adams last week.

MENA Pirates, who want a Caliphate and Religious Authority ruling over them are about as far removed from Saxon Villages and Althings as one could possibly imagine.

More later.

Kakistocracy says

The far-right, near-fascist party

Can you be specific as to why they are near fascist?

Kakistocracy says

a bit of ethnic cleansing via whatever means is suitable/palatable to the public to make the population a bit whiter did not sit well or was it the reference to enhanced interrogation techniques and internment camps ?

Can you show where he proposes this?

Kakistocracy says

military parades and jack booted goose stepping troops ?

And this as well?

May be I am missing something, but I do not see any of the above in Thierry Baudet.

@d6rB - in the interview above there is no direct link.

As far as the fascist - authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy.

I tend to read between the lines and there is a commonality between these candidates, groups, ideology etc. - like ISIS/ISL and it's offshoots.

The rest - who knows - why not though, someone in this country wanted a yuuggee military parade just like his pals in other countries.

I am doing some background research on him though - all so very very familiar...I will stand by my allegations.

For Baudet is convinced that his country is on the brink of disaster. He believes that Dutch political and intellectual elites harbor a pathological hatred of their own national culture. Fed by cultural Marxism, postcolonial guilt, victim culture, and political correctness, this oikophobia—Baudet’s fancy term for “fear of the home”—has sapped the country’s defense mechanisms, leaving it open to the invasion of non-Western values. These threats are embodied particularly in Muslim immigrants and refugees.

Although Baudet’s ideas are clearly very extreme, he packages them in a tremendously charming, attractive way.”

Baudet’s relationship with the extreme right is nebulous. While he’s popular with Dutch nationalists and white supremacists, he claims to forcefully reject racism and anti-Semitism, and says he will not allow them in his party in any form. At the same time, he dog-whistles through provocative statements that he later retracts, adds nuance to, or claims were intended ironically. One thing is clear: In his crusade against political correctness, he knows what buttons to push to prompt an attention-generating outcry.

Long Read: https://www.thenation.com/article/is-dutch-bad-boy-thierry-baudet-the-new-face-of-the-european-alt-right/

d6rB says

military parades and jack booted goose stepping troops ?

And this as well?

May be I am missing something, but I do not see any of the above in Thierry Baudet.

He's making it up.

32 CBOEtrader ignore (5) 2019 Apr 1, 4:51pm ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag

d6rB says

military parades and jack booted goose stepping troops ?

And this as well?

May be I am missing something, but I do not see any of the above in Thierry Baudet.

He's making it up.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

The military parades and jack booted goose stepping troops - creative license just like Baudet uses in describing his views and policies.

My allegation he is a fascist or worse - stand by what I said.

Also stand by that I do not care (not even an atom's worth) if someone on an internet forum hints I am un-American for what I post or not going along with Trump train.

Kakistocracy says

As far as the fascist - authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy.

I tend to read between the lines and there is a commonality between these candidates, groups, ideology etc. - like ISIS/ISL and it's offshoots.

I read through the link you provided. The only fact that could be interpreted as Baudet being far-right is his meeting with Jared Taylor (although meeting does not necessarily mean agreeing with ideas). Everything else seems to be a journalistic interpretation to achieve the desired result, that is to paint Baudet as member of far right. He appears to be strongly in favor of gay rights and gender equality - this is very different from far right and WRT to that he is more progressive than most of Patnet - he argues that immigrants should adopt culture of their new country - that seems logical (don't come to N. if you do not like there) - he supports referendums in Netherlands while so-called progressive left wing politicians are against them - last issue actually supports notion that the rest of parliament are fascists/stalinists/dictators/whatever as they prefer to rule without taking into account popular opinions.
Also, the article directly tells us that the collective Left is much more violent than the Right in Netherlands - two members of the Right - Fortuyn and van Gogh were killed by Left and their supported Muslims.

Yeah, posting link after link is an excuse to ignore reality. He made it up

Kakistocracy says

Depending on whom you ask, this phrase can offer insight into our national political rhetoric, as Beasley describes. It can also offer a window onto our collective psychology and help to explain characteristics of our society, according to some research that links values to economic systems.

This is a shock: After decades of the Multikult, the American Dream has lost it's one meaning held by 90% of the population: Increasing standard of living for ordinary folks.

As far as I can tell, according to the Clerisy, it means "Mass immigration of the third world and fuck the rednecks."

d6rB says

The only fact that could be interpreted as Baudet being far-right is his meeting with Jared Taylor (although meeting does not necessarily mean agreeing with ideas)

Ah yes, the smear by association or even debate. Just like Sargon gets smeared for having a debate with Richard Spencer, which turned into "Sargon participated in a Youtube event with Spencer. FASCIST!!!"

Kakistocracy says

that was one of many clever things Hitler did.

So you’re a Hitler admirer? A Nazi fan? It makes sense considering that you’re always posting things about how we need fascist rule to keep us under control.

jazz_music says

Can you comment on the topic or just make up stories about people who disagree with you?

The base is using the 3Ps here Jazz, attack attack attack - person, position or make it political

d6rB,MLTC et al. - there is not one iota of a doubt in my mind Baudet is using extreme creative license in his views to make them palatable to the masses.

I stand by my allegations against him.

Quigley says

So you’re a Hitler admirer? A Nazi fan? It makes sense considering that you’re always posting things about how we need fascist rule to keep us under control.

Kindly show me where I have stated that. I did add in a bit of trivia to show how a genre of music can be used to manipulate a crowd unknowingly.

On a side note how about some input into the A.I. issue on the docks - please use the other thread. 50 good mechanics being paid a decent wage and benefit package can do the same as 100 union mechanics.

Kakistocracy says

I stand by my allegations against him

And who are you? What qualifies you as an expert? What can you even do that is beneficial to your fellow human beings? So far all I’ve seen is an ability to criticize without being constructive. That and a great willingness to eliminate any ideology from consideration which differs from the media-approved version. So you’ve mastered the process of elimination. Congratulations! You’re now at the level of a newborn.