patrick.net

"let's break out the PBR"

I got NO problem w/ that! Oh other than it's only Wednesday? :(

Kieth over at Housing Panic had Thornberg's presentation on a video link and all I could think about was "peak to trough" decimation. Just calculating the loss of "equity" in this country from say Oct. 2005 to Dec. 2009 is going to be mind bending!

Anyone notice the complete 180 degree change in SDCIA Jeff's attitude about his "investments" from a few short months ago? Back then, he was King of the World, top senior SDCIA member, confidently handing out sage advice to the "younglings". He would politely tolerate comments from us JBRs at arm's length, but it was obvious by his tone always that he was only feeling pity and disdain --for us.

Oh what a difference a few months (and hungry "alligators") makes. Here are the highlights:

"I own three terrible houses in Cape Coral..."
"a series of misjudgments and being taken advantage of (and lied to)..."
"I am losing ~$1000 on month on each of these houses... "
"I am just sick about them and often cannot sleep..."
"Anyway, what should I do?"
"I am too embarrassed..."
"I think about "walking away," but then I think about the credit score hit..."
"I am dizzy thinking of it."
"Please help me! What should I do!?"

HARM,

What's worse (if you read their posts at all) is that they have totally abandoned their "charter". When hot topics gravitate toward "making money in RE through "shorting" the home builders and selected lenders" you have got to know they are just LOSING IT over there!

Sellers are dropping their asking prices in northern Los Angeles, and they have been for a year now. For sale signs are flourishing in almost every neighborhood. Foreclosures are up to the same level as they were last fall.

The local MLS provides different results depending upon how you search. If you have regular Internet access, fewer homes show up. If you have Realtor MLS access, you see far more properties.

Zillow over values crap properties and under values (relatively) higher end listings.

The very same Realtors who wouldn't spit on me if I was on fire two years ago treat me like a King today. Realtors do become testy after I mention the collapsing boom, "I've been doing this for 28 years and prices are NOT falling ..."

Mortgage brokers have become extremely aggressive (I have good credit and a decent savings).

Open houses got little traffic during the previous four months, but since the passing of Easter people have been out in droves. Agents now have Mortgage Brokers at the open houses to greet visitors.

Sellers are rejecting my low ball offers (10-15% below list) outright. Some selling agents are blackballing my use of BuysideRealty. In these instances those homes have not sold since Jan and sit on the market. More listings appear in various places every day.

J. Pake,

You seem to represent the ideal buyer to these realtors b/c you are unencumbered (screwed) by a maxed out FICO and over leveraged property they know they can't sell for what is owed!

Welcome and great feedback!

He leaves a really really nasty letter at my house

If it is not nasty enough to be threatening, ignore it.

If it is threatening, call the police. There are a few ways a professor can lose his tenure.

Okay, that axehole over on the SD investment board pisses me off.

He has 3 properties he's underwater on and are losing money.

He has some SLC properties that are in the green.

He's trying to figure out how to get rid of the aligators without touching his SLC properties. He's talking foreclosure and short sales. WTF? He should sell his goddamn lousy properties AND his good properties, and use anything he makes from SLC to cover his losses in FL. It's so damn obvious a third grader could tell him what to do. Instead, he wants the banks to eat his losses while he keeps his gains.

If he takes any other route than selling and absorbing the cost himself, I hope the banks take his FL properties, his SLC properties, his primary residence, and garnish his wages to make up every last penny, including foreclosure/court costs.

Sales here in our West San Jose neighborhood seem brisk. Two homes were listed and sold in under a week (one in the low $800k range, the other $900k). Very depressing......

CG

"How to make 100k extra in 1 year? Wait and buy in 08!"

Hello Kitty,

I'm making money just blogging. One thing is for sure. Sellers keep trying to execute the same sort of "exit/entry" strategy that j_u_s_t i_s_n_'_t w_o_r_k_i_n_g!

It isn't. That's why we're seeing all these cheap ploys on the sell side. We love to kid about "equity locusts" but in truth most of these punks are scared sh!tless to move out of the neighborhood (let alone out of state). They know prices have plummeted and they are frantically trying to get to the BUY SIDE! Tell Prof. Numbnuts to pound sand, will ya?

I just made a very "toned down" post on that "SDCIA Jeff" thread. My goal was to educate, not flame, gloat or ridicule. Perhaps, some of what I said will sink in for other SDCIA members (hey, it's a long shot I know, but there's always hope ;-) ):

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/sdcia/vpost?id=1854186&trail=60

HARM,

If that's "toned down" I don't want to see "fired up"!

Seriously, the only thing the guy can say to that is:

Yes Dad. :(

I suggest everyone high tail it over before they take it down in 3, 2, ...

He leaves a really really nasty letter at my house (where im renting) complaining about how this is thier ‘prime window’ to sell and how trashy I make the neighborhood look by working on my truck and/or motorcycle where they can see out their kitchen window! How dare I own a truck and motorcycle.

El Jefe has some good ideas. I've got a few more to add:

If you have a tricked-out car stereo, start blasting it during the guy's open houses. If you don't own one, borrow a friend's pit bull, get a lawn chair, some 40-ouncers in paper bags, break out your best wife-beater tshirt, and sit in the front lawn during said open houses and stare down every BMW-driving yuppie who pulls up to visit whilst grabbing onto your crotch.

SFBB,

Similar situation w/HK's greedy (probably b**mer) neighbor. Just itchin' to get to the BUY SIDE! Sellers that are real touchy now will turn into savages (if) they can get to the BUY SIDE! Now that they know how the game is played. Pffftt.

@DinOR,

:lol: Well... at least I was trying to be toned down!

But, honestly I didn't gloat or insult. Just tried to stick to the facts as I saw them. If that came off as harsh, then maybe, just possibly, it's because reality's a total b*tch. :twisted:

HARM and DinOR,

I thought HARM's post over at the SDCIA site was quite genteel. If anything, it useful, helpful advice for a bunch of folks who seem to have lost their way...

Well HARM certainly didn't mince words, now did he!

I'll agree, it was the same level of sobriety one "should" expect when wrapping a sports car around a telephone pole, crawling from the wreckage and asking where the next BAR is!

Uh... dude, don't you think you need a hospital right now, not another bar?

You have to admire the restraint!

I’ll agree, it was the same level of sobriety one “should” expect when wrapping a sports car around a telephone pole, crawling from the wreckage and asking where the next BAR is!

Dude, when I was on jury duty, this describes almost the *exact* scenario we were deliberating over. Except in my case, the defendant had also plowed into a pedestrian and killed him.

Except in my case, the defendant had also plowed into a pedestrian and killed him.

I hope the defendant was found guilty of murder.

He was.

If you have a tricked-out car stereo, start blasting it during the guy’s open houses. If you don’t own one, borrow a friend’s pit bull, get a lawn chair, some 40-ouncers in paper bags, break out your best wife-beater tshirt, and sit in the front lawn during said open houses and stare down every BMW-driving yuppie who pulls up to visit whilst grabbing onto your crotch.

Karma warns that when one day you need to sell because some bad fate befalls you, that something like this may happen.

Just sayin...

Sales here in our West San Jose neighborhood seem brisk. Two homes were listed and sold in under a week (one in the low $800k range, the other $900k). Very depressing……

A peer of a friend was looking to buy in the Fortress area - 1.25m range. Overbid on 5 offers, and lost all of them.

Frickin Fortress.

FyI: No one has yet commented on my SDCIA post, but they haven't taken it down either. So far, they just seem to be ignoring it.

I also used a discounter (ziprealty) and its not worth it.

What's wrong with using ZipRealty? I was thinking about it. Did something bad happen?

HARM,

That must have been hard to sit through. All the deliberation, the depositions, the cross examinations. Uh can't we just hang the bastard NOW?

I have heard paramedic stories (as I'm sure has skibum) where people have been in terrible accidents and don't quite realize they're missing limbs yet? Like the guy that's looking for his prized Rolex (TM) and isn't aware the wrist it was on is no longer attached to his body.

"they just seem to be ignoring it"

Well, ignore it at your own peril. Perhaps he is still looking for his Rolex (TM)? :(

If you have a tricked-out car stereo, start blasting it during the guy’s open houses. If you don’t own one, borrow a friend’s pit bull, get a lawn chair, some 40-ouncers in paper bags, break out your best wife-beater tshirt, and sit in the front lawn during said open houses and stare down every BMW-driving yuppie who pulls up to visit whilst grabbing onto your crotch.
--
Karma warns that when one day you need to sell because some bad fate befalls you, that something like this may happen.

Just sayin…

Possibly. My experience has been that most people who say they'd do this never actually would. And that those who actually would, aren't the sort which are likely to have the same done to them. In other words, you quite likely would end up getting your ass kicked if you tried to bestow "karmic justice" upon Mr. Wifebeatershirt yourself.

My lawyer once gave me very good advice when I was dealing with an ex employee who kept causing trouble a while back. He said, "Don't agitate crazy people. You have a lot more to lose than they do, and they usually don't even know if they have anything to lose at all."

@DinOR,

It wasn't too bad (deliberation only took a few hours), but I was kind of amazed that *anyone* could actually consider letting this clown off on a lesser charge. At least nobody considered letting him go scott-free, though. Our choices basically were: manslaughter or 2nd degree murder.

Karma warns that when one day you need to sell because some bad fate befalls you, that something like this may happen.

This neighbor toolbag started this whole process with an unwarranted nasty letter. This is HIS karmic retribution.

Speaking of karmic warnings, is there anything karmic-related that says not to be snotty and holier-than-thou?

Speaking of karmic warnings, is there anything karmic-related that says not to be snotty and holier-than-thou?

Not necessarily.

Oh, the SDCIA site allows registered users to search for their previous posts. This is one I posted (responding to our friend, Jeff) BACK IN JULY, 2006:

7/26/06 at 12:49 PM
Forum: Discussion Board
Subject: SLC--Boy, do I need help with L/O
Posted By: HARM

You've had an excellent run in one of the greatest bull markets in RE history. For the sake of your family, you may want to consider diversifying out of housing and into some other assets. No trend lasts forever.

"This toolbag neighbor started this"

He certainly did. Besides his beef (if he has one) is w/ HK's LL, not HK personally.

Isn't this so typical of all the sellers attempting to cash out? The whole freaking neighborhood is supposed to be on their best behavior until they get their check. Then ya'll can start killing each other for all they care (as they're rolling in Big Fat Stacks) heading down the road!

Muggy,

Easy fix. The Sacramento Bee has decided it would simply be easier for them to list the homes that are *not* for sale!

HelloKitty and DinOR -

Thanks for the welcome. Just to clarify my earlier comment, I am currently renting, and when I buy it will be as a First Timer. So I am truely on the buy side. And my encounters two years ago with lying/thieving real estate agents gave me a bit of a grudge.

I have been told so many things that I have terrible difficulty knowing the truth about real estate. I have been told that approaching a listing agent and asking for a purchase discount is illegal. I've been told that using online services like ZipRealty and Buysiderealty are also illegal. I've been told that I need to sign up exclusively with a mortgage broker before I can even make an offer. I've been told all of these things in the past month! (I'll save my stories from two years ago for another day.)

I don't work in the Real Estate industry, so I have difficulty knowing fact vs. fiction. (Nor do I work in law).

Anyways, I'm really enjoying these comments. I can't believe Professor Jerkwad. Amazing.

Condo auction in Chicago yesterday -

17 units offered & only 13 sold. I did not attend the auction because of the high assesments, taxes and disrepair of the building. The auction house would not disclose prices of those that sold.

Isn’t this so typical of all the sellers attempting to cash out? The whole freaking neighborhood is supposed to be on their best behavior until they get their check. Then ya’ll can start killing each other for all they care (as they’re rolling in Big Fat Stacks) heading down the road!

Hm, I dunno about that. Maybe its my east coastness again. Back where I'm from, there would be these absolutely insane wars between neighbors about curbside parking, lawn care, etc. Like, they'd video tape each other constantly, call the police constantly, etc. Regardless of whether or not properties were for sale/not.

Wow, there's a lot of results on this topic:

http://www.google.com/search?q=videotaping+neighbors+parking

J. Pake, get pre-approved through a credit union. They usually hold their mortgages instead of reselling them, and have more 'conservative' lending standards, consequently, they have fewer retard loans out there, so they actually have money to loan. Also, they don't make you sign 'exclusivity' crap, etc.

As for the realtors... ugh... while they don't all blow, a good number of them do. My wife and I went through a lot of open houses before we ran into one we weren't repulsed by. Are really, I was repulsed by some of them and their oily smarm. I actively wanted to leave the house because they were there.

Now what im trying to figure out is it legal? Are they aloud to sit there at night and record my husband coming home from work and my daughter's boyfriend leaving the house and every move we make.

Say it aloud with me: "people are allowed to do things that annoy you, learn to live with it".

J. Pake

If you're in CA then a lot of that is false information, probably given by people with a vested interest.

You don't have to use a realtor at all. You can ask for anything you want in the purchase deal. Of course you can ask for a discount if you're not going in with an agent. What's the difference between asking for a discount equal to say 1.5% (because the listing agent will collect both sides) versus offering 1.5% less in purchase price, and telling the agent you're discounting because they're getting both commissions?

By the way, the agent will lean on the seller to take the deal, even though you've offered less, because (s)he will get more, even at a lower price, since they get more %.

It's *not* illegal to use a discount broker. It's probably illegal for them to tell you it's illegal, if anything. But lots of selling agents will blacklist/boycott you if you do. That *is* illegal, by the way; and against their "code of ethics"; and something they theoretically can lose their license over.

Friggin realtors.

Whether you use a realtor to buy or not, I VERY STRONGLY RECOMMEND also engaging a real estate attorney on your side. At least the first time you buy, you should have a lawyer represent you, so you learn how it works.

Warning, the realtor will squeal like a stuck pig when you inform her you've got an attorney. She'll cry about how you're wasting money. About how all the forms are standard. About how the seller might get spooked.

I suggest you scan through the archives here for horror stories about how people have been royally screwed, and a lawyer would have probably caught the problem before hand. Regardless, I take the attitude: if there's nothing hiding in these hundreds of pages of fine print, then you have nothing to fear if I pay a professional actually *read* them for me. It's my money, I'll spend it on whatever professionals make me feel better.

By the same token, when buying a house on a slope in a slide-prone area I always bring in my own, independent engineer to assess the soil stability and structural risks. We actually had a seller balk and refuse to allow access unless we agreed to keep the findings "secret" -- ahhh, something else illegal under CA disclosure rules as I understand it. Anyway, that told me what I needed to know without even paying the engineer.

Buying a home is a big deal. Not something you do like you're bidding on artwork at your kids' silent auction school fund raiser, regardless of what most realtors will push you into. Another hint: never bid in multiple bid situations. Just politely excuse yourself and move on. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner's_curse

As for the realtors… ugh… while they don’t all blow, a good number of them do. My wife and I went through a lot of open houses before we ran into one we weren’t repulsed by. Are really, I was repulsed by some of them and their oily smarm. I actively wanted to leave the house because they were there.

Seriously - I went to a few lately and it's just so disgusting. It's WORSE than walking into a car dealership - in that if they're not trying to sell you the house, they're trying to sell you on being the buyer's agent.

It's still not clear to me, however, what the best way to buy a house is. I thought ZipRealty was a good approach, but it sounds like that might not be the case. It sounds like working directly with the listing agent might be a good approach, but that feels gross too.