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What is Alan up to?


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2005 May 19, 2:44pm   16,954 views  57 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

Why is Alan Greenspan suddenly criticizing Fannie Mae so much? I don't see exactly what he has to gain by it. Yes, the bubble is partly driven by Fannie taking on "bad" debt in the form current mortgages and turning it into "good" debt, ie Fannie's bonds with an implicit government guarantee. But the bubble is also driven by the low interest rates that Alan himself put in place.

Is he seeking protection, someone to point to when things go bad? It could help him, because many might blame him for keeping rates so low and getting the bubble started.

Maybe is he building political support for removing Fannie's implicit guarantee. If mortgage debt is $8 trillion, and Fannie re-issues $2 trillion of that, that's 25% of mortgage debt at risk right there, no? Maybe he's really concerned that a default is possible, and making people nervous about Fannie's future is his way to tighten up lending standards in general.

Please let me know if you have a better idea what's up.

Patrick

#housing

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15   praetorian   2005 May 22, 3:15am  

"In times of uncertainty gold is good for preserving capital. The physical, funds, mining stocks."

True. I would again mention inflation adjusted bonds. If china floats (or revalues) the yuan, there will be price increases in the US that (finally) make it into the official inflation calculations. Inflation adjusted bonds seem like a good conservative way to preserve (and moderately grow) capital at relatively low risk.

Cheers,
prat

16   Escaped from DC   2005 May 22, 5:12am  

I'm going to set up the subdomain. Worst case scenario, I can use the FrontPage bulletin board, which is suckage, but which is better than nothing.

17   praetorian   2005 May 22, 6:47am  

"Praetorian, inflation adjusted bonds follow some CPI indicators that the government cooks up. True inflation can be a lot higher than what the CPI says. Also, you may have to pay tax on “growth” of the inflation-adjusted principal portion as well. I don’t think any passive asset class is safe anymore."

I agree entirely. Any CPI that doesn't factor in the doubling of housing costs and a huge run-up in energy prices is nearly useless. I only think it will perhaps perform better than other investments, not spectacularly.

I also agree that this is a credit bubble first, and a housing bubble second. We are as one I assure you. Where we perhaps part ways is that I am not a particularly sophisticated investor, and making short plays on the market is something that I don't understand well enough to be comfortable with.

Unfortunately, this make be a situation where unsophisticated investors get eaten. _shrug_ We've got our God and we've got our Golf to see us through...

Cheerio,
prat

18   golden state bubble   2005 May 22, 9:51am  

amoney:
Good Observation. Thatz true the RE Bubble is the biggest in the
Blue States.
It is "Red Hot" in the "Deep Blue" Bay Area.

Individual markets are all blue with the exception of
San Diego/Orange County and Phoenix.

Even Las Vegas, and South FLorida are blue patches
in red states.

So does this mean Blue voters can't spot a bubble?
Red Voters are smarter to not get themselves into a bubble?

Or are the red states just so boring that nothing really happens
there? No booms, no bust.
Or are the Blue states so desirable that people are outbidding
each other to buy a house there?

19   Escaped from DC   2005 May 22, 12:35pm  

Jack, I think you're wrong.

I don't find blue states desirable. I find them packed with idiots who would commit to mortgages they can't afford. I find the culture to be part refreshing and part repulsive. It's only a matter of time til I move to a red state to get away from the intelligensia hoi polloi.

With the acknowledgement that Bush is a borrow and spend liberal, economically, I think the reason the bubble is in red states is one of culture, not one of desirability.

Conservative folks tend to be fiscally conservative and are less likely to overcommit to a house.

Liberal folks don't plan as much, tend to take life as it comes, and consequently are less concerned with whether they can pay back debts.

Just my 2 cents, Jack. I found your take not to be "harsh," as you euphemistically characterized it, but rather to be wrong and whining and partisan and every other reason why I despised John Kerry.

By the way, I'm not a Bush supporter, so don't think for a second I'm defending him - I just see in your response the standard liberal sneering that cost you the last election. Who's moving to California? Mexicans? You think California is "desirable" relative to the rest of the country? Jesus.

By the way, you're going to lose the Supreme Court soon, so get ready with more nastiness about justices who prefer to interpret the Constitution rather than redefine it.

20   golden state bubble   2005 May 22, 12:43pm  

Jack:

The 2000 Census shows a different migration pattern.

It's easier to compare trendz in terms of Congressional
Seats allocated to each state.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/Census00/HouseAndElectors.html

The Red states AZ,NV,GA,TX,FL had the biggest gains.

The Blue states PA,NY,MI,IL had losses.

CA shows a single gain. It prolly would have been constant if the
census was not held in 2000, the peak of the presence of
dot com workers ( out of country / out of state ) in the Bay Area.
A good chunk of them have since left the Area.

The red states had a net gain of 7 congressional seats
while the blue states had a net loss of 7 seats.

One could possibly argue this is one more reason the bubble
will bust, because prices are not justified by population
migration patterns.

Migration patterns of the last decade suggest a southward migration
pattern into the sunbelt.

Phoenix, Las Vegas had registered 82% and 45% population growth.
Atlanta, and Texas Cities also registered significant numeric increases,
but the growth rate was dwarfed, because of their own sizes.

These cities have little or no geographical boundaries , and can grow
pretty much in all directions. Unlike Bay Area and Los Angeles Basin
which are more or less fully occupied. Las Vegas can double before the
Las Vegas Basin fills up.

These cities have been oversupplied with (new) houses and rental vacancies are high. And I think they will be prime destinations for California Recession Refugees after the RE Bubble Bust.

This may look like over analysis to some folks. But never the less,
facts are facts ( of course some of it is my opinion based on facts).

21   praetorian   2005 May 22, 12:55pm  

Escape,

Please. Civil. I agree with nearly everything you said, save the part about not supporting our most entertaining and humble president. However, there is no point in being nasty about it. (I know what I think of your arguments keeps you up at night, tossing and turning: "But what does Prat think of me" you scream as you bolt upright in a cold sweat.)

Cheerio,
prat

22   praetorian   2005 May 22, 2:17pm  

"But because space IS limited in the Bay Area is the reason prices stay firmer in a downturn than places like Phoenix or Vegas"

That's not really clear. I live in Palo Alto. There is new construction around here. The inside of the bay is poorly utilized, with a lot of empty commercial space available that could easily be used for housing. San Jose still has plenty of infill room, and condo's are going up like spring flowers.

San Fransicco proper is built out, and is a special case, although I think that it may be in a bubble as well. (Actually, I think SF's problems are Europes: no children. It is a childless city, and it's public services reflect that fact.)

On top of this, the Bay Areas population has been decreasing, wages are stagnant and unemployment is high relative to the rest of the country. _shrug_ Who can explain these things? As soon as my wife and I are done with our current studies that tie us here, we are out.

Best,
prat

23   golden state bubble   2005 May 22, 3:06pm  

Jack:

Desirability of a location has a dollar value attached to it.
People can pay only so much extra for it. If the premium
increases too much, most people get priced out. Then the
premium has to adjust down to a level which can be
sustained.

Bay Area prices are 2.5 times the prices in the sun belt.
I am not sure desirability of Bay Area demands that kind
of premium. Median in Atlanta is 200K, in Bay Area it
is 500K.

Again these numbers are from a source which reports
these numbers for both the places
http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=579825&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=162679

And Bay Area Median house is much smaller than the
one in Atlanta.

Another way to look at these premiums is an oceanfront
property and a similar inland property in Los Angeles.
How much premium would one pay for the oceanfront?
Definitely not 250%, at least not me.

I think a 20-50% premium over Atlanta (or for even the ocean front
in LA ) should account for the desirability factor. Anything more
would be artificial , and creates a bubble.

Secondly Bay Area population has decreased since 2000, but the prices
have nearly doubled since then. Which again is in dire conflict
with the demand-supply equation. Can mean only one thing,
this demand is artificial and not supported by fundamentals.

And again desirability is such a subjective criteria. A person who
wants to have a big backyard in his house, Atlanta is more desirable.

Did'nt we all in Bay Area think Bush would lose. But he won by 3 million
votes. Point in case, there are other's who can think differently than
you and me, and they cannot be simply just written off.

The premium for Bay Area house has increased so much that
only 13% residents could afford a house, as compared to 20%
just a few months ago.

With as many 87% of the people priced out of the housing market,
these levels of desirability premium are just not sustainable.

24   Escaped from DC   2005 May 22, 9:07pm  

Prat, I couldn't sleep at all last night! First I was tossing, then I was turning. Awful stuff.

Anyway, OK, I'm going to do my best to be civil.

If all the Bay area folks here have "Cali Pride" or something like that, then I suggest you don't read any further. As for me, I don't have pride in any state, and I don't have a lot of pride in this country, either. I think pride is a silly emotion that causes many of our problems.

When I said "who finds California desirable, Mexicans?" I certainly was not attempting to be disrespectful to Mexicans. I have no issues with any person based on his/her country of origin. I can say that I have found that I dislike a greater percentage of folks from some countries. As for the Mexicans comment, I said it only to highlight what a later posted wrote - that the net migration to Cali, I'd suspect, is either not huge or comprises, significantly, illegal immigrants.

Jack, I dislike Bush almost as much as I dislike Kerry, so please recognize me as not part of the loyal opposition.

How did 1 in 8 folks end up in Cali? How is that relevant? There are 1 billion in china, but that doesn't make it desirable.

Laws start in Cali? Really, like what? Like the legislation that was tabled that would have, if passed, limited the number of overachieving Asians who get into the state university system?

Jack, you could be held up as an exemplar for the reason the liberals have been getting wiped out in national elections. I remember prior to Bush's 2nd term talking to my liberal aquiantances who thought Kerry would win. I thought they were misreading the situation. But that seems to be the norm for folks who view the world from that perspective.

I understand the right in this country. Their agenda is clear, and how they are going to get there is clear.

I do not understand the left. It's like watching a boxer (Barbara?) come back to his corner every round after getting demolished and listening to him tell the cornerman, "I think I got him where I want him." Worse, no change is being made.

This all ties in to california, because it is only the electoral college votes of California that is keeping the elections close.

You want to know what most people outside of californians who I have met think of cali?

I quote the eminent comedian Gallagher, who said, "Cali is like a bowl of cereal - what ain't fruits and nuts is flakes." By the way, I have not problem with anybody based on their sexual orientation, so save it.

In short, then, most people I have met don't view Cali as the leader of trends in the US, but rather as the leader of the trend down the toilet. And how is Cali's fiscal situation? Anybody want to comment on that?

I could write five pages on this, but I won't. Jack, I encourage you to consider how the right views your world - you may find it useful during the next election cycle.

Finally, I think the most egregious error in Jack's thinking is that red states are the past. This thinking is dangerous to liberal prospects. If all the time since the midterms of Clinton I's presidency have shown anything, it's that the country has undergone a major shift past the center to the right. The red states are the trend, and if the economy gets severe, beleive me that liberalism will be suppressed in response, and the conservative folk's mantra will ring even truer. The only hope on the horizon for the left is, in one word, Hillary. Ironically, the folks on the right with whom I have chatted think she's not electable. This is ironic because she is not only electable, she is the favorite, IMO. The right is going to let it's hatred of her foolishly camoflage the truth. How liberal of them!.

That's it, I hope that wasn't too uncivil. I love you as a person Jack.

25   Lisa9   2005 May 22, 10:30pm  

I lived in LA pretty much my whole life until we moved to PA 2 years ago. I do see migration into CA, but not among the type of people that buy 750K homes. The increase in population is a mix from south of the border and kids right out of high school or college looking to party or be famous. If you lived in another state and got two job offers for $100K (sorry if I'm insulting some of you with the low amount ;) ), one in CA and one somewhere with low housing costs, where would you go? I think the vast majority would go somewhere w/ low housing costs. I couldn't imagine anyone with children wanting to go to LA unless they were very wealthy because homes in the few decent school districts start at $750 (for a dump) or else you have to send the kids to private school. And my observation w/ people here in PA is that many of them would like the idea of living in CA, but when they hear about the home prices their jaws drop to the floor and they say they're happy where they are.

26   Escaped from DC   2005 May 22, 11:55pm  

Jack, interesting take on it.

Group hug [[[[ ]]]]]]

27   Lisa9   2005 May 23, 3:42am  

Hey Bubble Boy, you must be a boy if you don't remember the RE market crashing in the late 80s. BTW, several of us do own property or just recently sold property, so we not only got on the train, but got off right before it burst into flames...enjoy the ride :)

28   Escaped from DC   2005 May 23, 3:56am  

Bubble Boy, you smell like Fake P.

I just saw some of the best evidence of a bubble I have seen to date.

On,? The People's Court.

Guy mentions to neighbor, who he doesn't know, that he wants to buy a property but he's 158 on the waiting list. Stranger neighbor says if you give me 5k I know a woman who will get you to the front of the list. Guy gives neighbor 5k. Guy gets to front of list to find out that the house is 90k more expensive. Guy wants money back. No can do. Sue. Brilliant.

Wasn't it Joe Kennedy who got out of stocks a week before the 29 crash because he was getting a shoe shine and he heard the shoe shine boy giving advice on which stocks to buy?

29   Lisa9   2005 May 23, 5:00am  

BB, I personally purchased a condo in 1997 for $165K that had sold in 1991 (at the very tail end of the 80s crash) for $250K (exact same condo). This was the typical price fall in the area of Los Angeles that I was buying in & more than 10-20 percent.

30   Lisa9   2005 May 23, 5:03am  

Ooops, I meant 80s peak, not crash.

31   Escaped from DC   2005 May 23, 5:30am  

I worked with a guy in CT in 1992ish who had bought at the peak in the late 80s and didn't have enough equity to sell. Worse for him, he wanted desperately to move. Oh yes, a 10% decline in housing is going to cause a catalytic crash. Why?

Because Mr. and Mrs. Fat American with their heads up their arses are not going to be deterred from their consumption by anything until their fake equity dematerializes. At that point, they will slowly turn away from the plasma tv while slowly putting down their half eaten snickers bars. They will make eye contact. Their mouths will be agape. And, horrifyingly, the realization will hit them that the only thing more overextended than their waist lines is there finances. And the words Holy Shiite will be seen to form upon their lips. And they will know fear. And then they will look around and see that the things they have wasted their money on - the credit they institutionalized with the last 2 refis - have little value. They will recognize that their debt is virtually insurmountable and,

HUSH,

THEY WILL STOP BUYING CRAP.

And when that happens, get your googles on, because the crap is gonna fly.

32   Escaped from DC   2005 May 23, 6:43am  

NetGuru wrote, "Wow DC….you just sold your house for a gazillion more dollars than you bought it for. Why are you in such a bad mood?"

Well, mostly because I'm going to have to deal with the fallout. It's my libertarian perspective. I don't give too much of a crap what people do, as long as it doesn't affect me. But it bugs me when I know my taxes are going to go up to cover all the losses that will occur.

33   Escaped from DC   2005 May 23, 11:13am  

Heads up.

I just spoke with my former Realtor. He indicated that he is now telling clients in the DC market he works that the goal is to "sell your house within 30 days." For the last two years, at least, the goal was to sell it in a day.

Anecdotally, I have noticed a slew of houses come on the market. On my street, which has barely a score of houses, the fourth house in four months just went on sale. Unbelievable.

34   praetorian   2005 May 23, 12:26pm  

"I believe that in a society, everyone could work to profit together."

_smile_

And there, my trollish friend, is the rub.

No society ever got wealthy by trading pieces of paper with one another at a feverish rate. Society gets wealthy by, wait for it, producing wealth. The current market fevers really *are* a zero sum game: people exiting the market are taking money from people entering it. This is why I am exiting it. Perhaps in a few years I shall reenter it, if buying again becomes financially prudent. But right now the rent vs. buy numbers just aren't there.

I admire your commitment to capitalism, but todays credit driven economy is not capitalist. It is fantasy.

Perhaps I am wrong. and you shall get to rub my nose in it. But this is my honest and reasoned position.

Cheerio,
prat

35   Escaped from DC   2005 May 23, 2:42pm  

Another anecdotal bit of evidence that a crash will soon be upon us . . .

I'm listening to the radio tonight and I hear an add for a real estate course. The standard huckster crap that has sprung up in the last 12 months. Come to us and we'll teach you how to make money in the real estate market.

The difference? This ad specifically said, "yes, THAT'S RIGHT, you can use your 401k money to invest in real estate."

When folks start tapping into their 401ks to buy houses in the DC bubble, man, that's gotta be a bad sign.

36   golden state bubble   2005 May 23, 3:33pm  

P:

You are welcome. The crash would start in the San Diego and/or
Las Vegas Markets. DQNews is a consistent source to track CA home prices.

I posted a link in an earlier post which tracks year-over-year appreciation in CA Markets.
The next few months in SD market will pretty much turn the tide.
I think Las Vegas is several months ahead in this cycle. What we are
seeing in SD now, started happenning in LV in Oct 2004.

But getting any kind of data from LV has been a challenge.
Which ever market gets the media's attention first, will trigger the
panic selling in other markets.

And yes I do agree that Bay Area's price correction will be much
more severe than anywhere else. Most other local bubbles are
5 yrs old, but BA has a 10 yr old expanding housing bubble.

The prices will fall back to 95-96 levels, adjusted for inflation.
The near 100% appreciation of the last 5yrs will definitely be
wiped out. That accounts for a near 50% drop. Then the appreciation
of late 90's will account for another 10-20%. So 50 to 65% drop
in the next few years is about right.

Those who think it is too big to happen, Nasdaq lost nearly 80%
of its peak value, and is now stable at about 40% of its peak.

_____________________________

Jack:

2000 - 1 in 8 Americans lived in CA
2005 - 1 in 8 Americans lives in CA, 7 out of 8 still dont live in CA.

If in 2005, 1 in 5 Americans were living in CA, it could possibly
explain a demand driven appreciation. But that's not the case, it is an expectation driven appreciation, which is essentially a bubble.

I can agree to a 100% premium over North Dakota,
but not 100% over Atlanta.

______________________________

DC

I witnessed another anecdotal evidence that this is gonna crash
sooner than later.
As I walked back home I saw a Home Ownership Fair on a public park.
Every lender Bank in the area had a table there , giving information about
how to buy a house.
About 100 people seated in a tent were listening to a speaker
who was explaining things about home ownership.

When commodities of over half million are being marketed like
$3 hotdogs on a weekend afternoon.
The end is pretty near and clear.

37   praetorian   2005 May 24, 3:19am  

"If not why are you misleading people with something that you are not sure of?"

For sport, mainly. Seems like its working.

Deep breaths my boy, and repeat after me:

Prudence, prudence, prudence.

I offer this to assist you:

http://www.dinkytown.net/java/MortgageRentvsBuy.html

All the best,
prat

38   Escaped from DC   2005 May 24, 7:16am  

Mr. Mike wrote - " I feel that I am lucky to still have a job."

If more people felt like you, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Last week I ordered two sets of checks after I opened a new account.

One set of checks came with the wrong info on it, the other was "held" because they couldn't figure out that I sent one fax with two cancelled checks on it. As for the checking account, an ATM card was never ordered by the account opener. Why? Because these people do not "feel lucky to have a job." They think they're getting screwed.

Fake P - I appreciate your input. I don't understand it.

1st, I already stated I feel bad for the greedy pigs, but I won't lose any sleep over it. People should be responsible for what they decide.

2nd, I haven't figured out how to make money off a housing fall, and I'm not looking to get rich, anyway.

I'm talking about it the same way I talk about gene therapy - I think they're both interesting and both going to happen soon.

39   Lisa9   2005 May 24, 9:57am  

Interesting line from today's 'lead' story at yahoo finance about record setting home sales:

"By region, sales were up 7 percent in the South, 5.8 percent in the Midwest and 4.3 percent in the Northeast. They were unchanged in the West last month."

Think the speculators have left CA in search of greener pastures? I know the bay area is still on the upswing, but this leaves me feeling like so cal has definitely stalled.

40   Escaped from DC   2005 May 24, 11:18am  

Well Mike, i own a home. At least I have entered into a contract to own a home. And I do mean I will own it. It's great and it sucks.

I can't stop reading stuff. I haven't been this motivated to read since I was I was 50 pages into Atlas Shrugged, and before that, since I first started to figure out the molecular nature of cells. I've just read for 3 hours on line about various gold issues.

I found out that Roosevelt confiscated all privately held gold in 1933.

How is it that a man who most would describe as well educated has never heard of this? I am sadened by my ignorance. I am frightened when I consider how simple most Americans are.

I feel sadened by my pathetic education. I have four college degrees, including two graduate degrees, and not once was I exposed to any kind of education about the gold standard, fiat money, the Federal Reserve, etcetera. I'm embarrassed at myself for being so immature through the first 35 years of my life that I haven't had the inclination to examine my government's history more closely.

Wow. It's going to be tough to get any work done over the next few weeks.

It's time. It really is. Everything before was only the staging. The act begins soon. We, who have lived in the grandest cornucopia - albeit falsely purchased - will now face the product of our doings.

41   Escaped from DC   2005 May 24, 1:35pm  

netrugu, that's it exactly. The Internet is an awesome resource. I like it for alternative news. The fact is, from the advent of TV through to the talk radio explosion 10 years ago, a very few individuals at a very few networks had far too much control over information. Now, anybody with 150 bucks can start a web.

42   Peter P   2005 May 24, 2:08pm  

We are not completely balanced, although we do welcome reasoned counter-arguments. I am going to miss Face Reality. Hope that he will be back soon.

43   Escaped from DC   2005 May 24, 2:08pm  

This is the way I look at it. I've got a bunch of kids. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'd rather NOT have to worry about watching my saving wiped out by hyper inflation initiated by a RE B burst.

So I grudgingly have fought my way to the conclusion that I must prepare for what seems obvious.

I will add, however, that when I was in school in 1999, I was already telling people that our culture was unhealthy and that accumulated debt and lack of savings were going to catch up to us. The last 5 years have done nothing but confirm my observations. Heck, 5 years ago, relatively speaking, we weren't in bad shape.

44   praetorian   2005 May 24, 3:30pm  

"Are we balanced?"

It is conceivable that we are all wrong, and that housing is now a 20% per year asset. But until we see a compelling *why* housing changed in such a fundamental way in 1999-2000, we must rationally conclude that it is a short term aberration. Being a bear is never easy.

I am fully prepared to eat crow, as I am reluctantly doing so now with the google IPO. (Although I still think it too shall crash! A fool indeed!)

Chins up, gentlemen. And no schadenfreude. That would be unbecoming.

Cheers,
prat

45   Escaped from DC   2005 May 24, 7:09pm  

The Best Part (BP) about Mike's link is that the "investors" are described on line one as the "new day traders." Jesus. Isn't that a bad thing? I remember one of my wife's friends was a day trader. Yeah, sat around in his underwear eating chips and buying Amazon. Till Summer '00. Then he had to get a job after blowing, I'm guessing, much of their cash.

Whoever made the point on Bankruptcy "reform," great point. It's like "A Perfect Storm." All this shiite is coming together at the same time - credit bubble, dollar devalued, savings all time low, real estate madness, China's consumption ramping up. Dammit, screw the fish, let's get the boat the hell out of here.

OK - I am a doomsday guy. Here's how I see it going down. Copy this blog and check in a year to see how I did . . .

The trigger is real estate. At some point in the next 6-12 months the panic sets in, and there is a substantial devaluation of housing in many major metro areas.

Meanwhile, the Fed has continued to raise rates through the summer and fall, which contributes to the housing panic.

Unfortunately, it is too late to save the slumping dollar, which continues to fall versus world currencies.

Foreigners, who are watching their treasury note investments become devalued with each incremental drop in the dollar, begin to divest. In response, the Fed must raise rates further in a pathetic attempt to readdict the foreign creditors.

The housing market is now abysmal. Foreclosures become common, and suddenly Joe and Sally homeowner are worried. The SuperBowl has it's lowest TV audience in 15 years. The commercials don't seem funny.

Consumer spending slows, and what consumer spending remains is, at miserable exchange rates, used to purchase expensive goods.

The dollar continues its devaulation.

The housing market is now a pit. Nobody is buying. Interest rate increases at the one year mark are now starting to loom as portents of financial ruin to the 5%-20% of Americans who will not be able to pay their debts as they come due because they have taken too much credit in the form of mortgages or HE credit lines.

Bankruptcy filings increase, and consumer spending is further demolished by the inability of Chap 13 filers to purchase anything other than necessities.

Oil prices are going up in a spike, as China begins panic buying of reserves.

Unemployment surges.

Other countries are now begininng to panic. With their main consumer struggling to stay above water, the spiral pulls in most of the WTO.

Right about now is when Congress decides that FDR didn't do quite enough to drive us, as Marx correctly predicted, to Socialism, and

fuggetaboutit.

That's my take.

46   Lisa9   2005 May 25, 7:07am  

Going off on a bit of a tangent here...I know you guys like statistics...what do you make of this.

US 2005 Population (rounded up) 300 Million
Average Annual Growth Rate (rounded up) 1%

Data source: http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/

So, every year an addition 3 Million people
Estimate that an average of 3 people live in one home (I would say this is conservative as well)
So, US needs 1 Million new homes/year to keep up w/ population

Most recent data
1.316 Million new homes sales (annual, seasonally adjusted)

That's a lot of excess homes, especially when purchase of resale homes is not factored in. Am I missing something here? Are all the excess purchases by speculators?

47   Lisa9   2005 May 25, 11:15am  

Here some vegas price data, through March, for those of you that haven't seen it yet :)

http://www.salestraq.com/las_vegas/graphs.html

48   golden state bubble   2005 May 25, 11:28am  

Lisa

Thanks for the link.

49   Escaped from DC   2005 May 25, 12:09pm  

Las Vegas = Loser Magnet

I always thought the expression
"What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" was pretty close.

That is, if "what happens" is your money.

50   Escaped from DC   2005 May 25, 12:53pm  

Ptiemann. Sorry, my words are harsher in retrospect.

I don't dislike or look down on anybody who chooses to live in LV.

I just think, with the exception of CSI, the town is represtative of all of the bad things about human beings. I was there once. I found the place to be very sad.

I'll just throw out again, I don't care if people want to behave like children, run to LV to throw their money in the pit, hire whores and strippers, and otherwise waste money and act like fools. Unfortunately, I'll be the one they turn to when, mysteriously, they don't have sufficient retirement savings.

51   Escaped from DC   2005 May 25, 2:17pm  

Hey Max, I never said I like DC! I'm leaving!

52   Escaped from DC   2005 May 25, 11:53pm  

The U.S. Patent System is, to be polite, problematic.

The worst part? Fees taken in from filings and the myriad of other patent fees are more than is needed to support PTO activities. So where does the money go? You guessed it, the general fund. And given that patents have been issued on perpetual motion machines and EMR that is faster than light, . . .

screw it.
I can't change it and I can't stand it. Bad position.

53   Escaped from DC   2005 May 26, 6:03am  

You're looking for a website that's bullish on real estate?

Easy.

http://www.realtor.org/

54   Escaped from DC   2005 May 26, 12:35pm  

If we're wrong then I'll be retired in 5 years laughing at how concerned I was over nothing. Hey, I thought Y2K might be a problem as well. On the other hand, even a blind dog . . .

We're not wrong. Whatever created us may make us wait a year or two more to see it all start to unravel, but we are not wrong. The darkness will be upon us soon. Our fellow Americans are like cattle following the easy credit bell to the slaughter.

I represent the "dumb money." My dumb money likes P's theory. I don't give it past Xmas.

With regard to conspiracy theory, mine is not that they're trying to depress housing. That would be simple. Greenspan saying, "there is a bubble and we expect a strong downword trend within 6 months" would pop the bubble. No no. Instead, I think the conspiracy is to keep the entire thing hush hush until it explodes. Maybe until Hillary takes over, but at least after AG leaves office. It's like an affair that's getting more difficult to conceal. More people are noticing. There are unfamiliar panties under the bed. The dog looks upset. And why has she lost 30 pounds and dyed her hair? My conspiracy theory is that Bush, AG, and all those in the top eschelon are scared as hell that there is a crash coming. Again, AG telling folks 6 months ago, or whatever, that getting an adjustable rate loan would be a good idea SCREAMS of a last ditch effort to prop up the phony GDP.

Here's my question - - -

WHY THE F _ _ _ ARE NO SENATORS TALKING ABOUT THIS???

Honestly, screw the filibuster and the textualis/activist debate. I don't care anymore. If things keep up the way they are, nobody's gonna be able to get a decent tonsilectomy, forget about an abortion.

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