patrick.net

nosf41 says

My opinion is that sitting in a church lead by a racist pastor for 20 years does count as evidence of somebody’s character. For me it is a pretty strong proof where his heart is on the issue of race.

I disagree. It's very weak proof. Why do you say that his pastor was racist? Because he's paranoid? Lots of white people are paranoid that blacks are out to get them too. How do you know Obama agreed with any of that?

You think he didn't like his white mother, or his white grandparents who took care of him? Maybe you just want to believe Obama is a racist. See "projection", above.

How about this one: “Obama has a deep seated hatred of white people”. Beck said that. Beck has no evidence, he’s just throwing it over the fence to try to get Obama to respond. There is no response to that, so Beck can say “see, he won’t respond to it.”

Hey, I've got one. How about someone who creates a thread with the topic that people who oppose Obama's healthcare plans are racists. I seem to remember that from a few weeks ago. Pot, kettle?

Most of the people on this forum (and the author of that particular thread) seem to be against the bailout mania of this administration and the previous one. I suppose the people opposed to the Obama bailouts must also be racist by the same logic that the people who oppose the healthcare plans must be racist.

I think it's mean spirited to make fun of Glenn Beck as it is to make fun of any mentally ill person.

Over and out.

Not sure why you are in such a bad place, Patrick, but I hope you work it out. Good luck.

Focus on the issues, they should be able to stand on their own. Do not attack those who are attacking issues with substance by labels, it just makes you appear desperate and pathetic. Focus on the issue, and if you thing Glenn Beck is a loon, why would you give him the time of day...unless you actually believe there is substance in some of his arguments that make you uncomfortable.

Whatever it is, from earlier posts where you have called those who do not agree with Obama racists to goofy attacks on a marginal host, have you no one around you who has told you that you are losing it, that you are going off of the deep end?

Sincerely, be well.

If only we COULD focus on facts! As it is the innuendo and false accusations seem to very easily supplant and obscure the facts of important debates. Just look at the heathcare discussions going on right now. The amount of crap going around on this issue is just staggering, and the only thing about it that surprises me is that the crap is taken seriously. Death panels!

And lets be honest - Glenn Beck is one of the leading suppliers of misleading information in this debate, and most others. Please just admit that and don't go on blathering innocently "well that MIGHT be true... or maybe not.." He discusses information thats easily verified. He has a very particular agenda and he's very aggressive about making his case, bully for him, but to defend him as an honest supplier of information is is just an outright misrepresentation and to pretend otherwise is beneath us. So if you're going to defend him then do it based on the real qualities he does possess, but adhesion to facts ain't one of them.

As loony as we may think he is we have to take him seriously - he's a high profile national figure that a lot of people listen to.

Here's what I believe, fyi: Many people believe and listen to the side of a story that supports what they already think. People like Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Rush L know this and will spout stories that exaggerate or misrepresent issues. However easily bebunked they may be, once they've been said on a national forum they're out there and they'll gain traction with the people who want to believe them. And I think the goal of many of these statements, particularly those surrounding the healthcare debate and Obana's origins are not meant to be verifiable, they're meant to excite people, to agitate them. The tactic there is not to win these debates by facts, but to obscure the facts and swamp the debate with emotions.

And, hey, whats with this crap: "Not sure why you are in such a bad place, Patrick, but I hope you work it out. Good luck." Save the croco-troll tears for other forums... nothing P said warrants that kind of statement and you just look silly saying it.

Anyone seen the tea party link in FP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y&feature=player_embedded#t=496&ref=patrick.net

Its amazing, all those idiots just followed what this and some right wing nuts told. They dont want Czars, but when the interviewer confronts them that it was created by Reagan and expanded by Bush, they were speechless.

When you know your viewers are idiots, you can tell anything. Simple!

Patrick,
Stick to blogging housing/financial topics, your site is one of the best ever. The only thing worse than having to vote for these pathetic politicians, is arguing over whether the turd sandwich (Obama) is better than the giant douche (Bush). We live in a corporate plutocracy. One that created the debt bubble disaster that youve helped many people tune into. Obama is more of the same. You voted for a dream, for history. Keep believing in that, and the plutocracy becomes more powerful while we're all distracted by the turd/douche debate raging on and on.

Obama having a deep-seated hatred for white people would make about as much sense as having a deep seated hatred for breathing.

nosf41 says

My opinion is that sitting in a church lead by a racist pastor for 20 years does count as evidence of somebody’s character. For me it is a pretty strong proof where his heart is on the issue of race.

I disagree. It’s very weak proof. Why do you say that his pastor was racist? Because he’s paranoid? Lots of white people are paranoid that blacks are out to get them too. How do you know Obama agreed with any of that?
You think he didn’t like his white mother, or his white grandparents who took care of him? Maybe you just want to believe Obama is a racist. See “projection”, above.

The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials:
http://theobamafile.com/ObamaRace.htm

Patrick,
You seem to have some deep hate for anyone who disagrees with Obama and you now use the small minded debating tool of calling these people rascist. That is just pathetic and to call all or most Beck viewers rascists or closet rascists is about as narrow minded as someone can get.
You add fuel to a debate that takes focus off the facts that Obama has been a big croc of BS and no change has come to the people who elected him. He is by Wall Street and for Wall Street's best interests. He lied to Main Street to get elected and has not stood by his promises. Business as usual in Washington. Dont matter if its Bush, Omaba, Rebublican or Democrat.
Our government is corrupt in every which way. Who do we trust in DC when we dont know who the true devils are.
I agree with the posters up there that you should stick to blogging about housing.
Moe
PS.
You use "projection" all the time and your blog is based 100% on it.

Glenn Beck is a hero. A modern day Paul Revere who is alerting a slumbering America to the detrimental effects of Socialism, Marxism and Communism. He has brought to light a historical perspective that has been hidden from our government education system for decades, even generations. We are reaping what has been sown by the progressive movement, the New Deal and the Great Society. These were nothing more then the few seeking power and control over the citizenry, now serfs, and the complete removal of true liberty and freedom. No free nation (and with America now dead, there are no truly free nations) would employ a burdensome tax code to manipulate behaviour. Yes America is dead and we are only living the illusion of freedom. Kind of like the demise of Rome. The Roman citizens continued to believe Rome was great up to the very end. It was Johann Wolfgang Goethe who said, “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” But I do give credit to Glenn Beck for at least trying. I personally believe the handwriting is on the wall and we will soon have a global currency. Our national soveriegnty will be a thing of the past. Obama has sealed the US-UN relationship (Financial Times Sept 8, 2009) and he will be the 1st President to sit on the UN Security Council. We are doomed but most have their heads buried in the sand and do not want to hear the truth. End time Bible prophecy is unfolding before our very eyes. Obama said he is the answer; he said government is the answer. He is a liar. Look to Jesus Christ as your answer before the final act. We are very, very close. Wake up! Do not trust the government or Obama. They will lead you straight to hell. Wake up. I do not push a religion or a denomination but only Jesus. He alone is the answer; He alone saves. Wake up before it is to late. His coming will be as the days of Noah. It will be a day like any other. Please discern the times. Wake up.

I find it amazing that people would actually try to sabotage Glenn Beck. He legitimately calls out one of Obama's czars (Anthony "Van" Jones for those that only watch mainstream media,) and leftist nuts try to link him to a rape. Show proof. Glenn Beck did of "Van" Jones and he tried to quietly resign on the weekend. I enjoy the site for info on the housing market, but you, Patrick, are showing a particularly high level of ignorance if you are labeling "most" of Glenn Beck's viewers as racist. I'm quite tired of Obama and the Democrats labeling people as racist if they disagree with Obama. The word is losing its meaning thanks to people like you. BTW, Obama's czar Van Jones has said
“The white polluters and the white environmentalists are essentially steering poison into the people of color communities because they don’t have a racial justice frame.”
Sounds kind of "racial," doesn't it? Talking about being accused of "rape?" If I discussed everyone that disparaged me or sued me, I would be giving them a platform they do not deserve. Let's all try to be a bit more even-handed.
Wen

"Generally Glen provides plenty of independently verifiable evidence."

HA HA, HA HA HA HA HA!

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348,00.html

Glenn Beck is laughing all the way to the bank, $23 million dollars last year (and that's what's been reported) - with much more to line his pockets this year. Meanwhile, people who swallow his bitter medicine are panhandling to make enough money to show up to his rallies (and no doubt buy his t-shirts and other official propaganda).

The article also discusses that he's made pro-Obama statements, but that doesn't make him enough money so he's resorting to the fearmongering now.
"The inevitable question is, How much of this industry is sincere? Last year, shortly after the election, Beck spoke with TIME's Kate Pickert, and he didn't sound very scared back then. Of Obama's early personnel decisions, he said, "I think so far he's chosen wisely." Of his feelings about the President: "I am not an Obama fan, but I am a fan of our country ... He is my President, and we must have him succeed. If he fails, we all fail." Of the Democratic Party: "I don't know personally a single Democrat who is a dope-smoking hippie that wants to turn us into Soviet Russia." Of the civic duty to trust: "We've got to pull together, because we are facing dark, dark times. I don't trust a single weasel in Washington. I don't care what party they're from. But unless we trust each other, we're not going to make it."

It appears that he changes his message to line his pockets. And he still hasn't responded to the question: Did he rape & murder a girl in 1990? An innocent man would proclaim his innocence, no matter the cost.

The link to this web site is juvenile as is most of this conversation.

Beck is a blowhard in many ways but, there are plenty on the left too. I listen to them all and maintain my objectivity. I firmly believe there is far too much group think. People should actively seek out those with differing opinions and views and process their message without labeling them nuts because they happen to not support your view of things. Beck has had some decent segments on peak oil and was ahead of the housing and financial crises. Some of us believe he is ahead of the Fed funding bubble now.

"The link to this web site is juvenile as is most of this conversation."

I'm telling my mommy you said that! I don't think she'll let us play together any more!

Patrick

I really enjoy your forum on the housing crisis. But I am very surprised that you've chosen to become so politically opinionated and thus why your donations have been decreasing lately and I'm sure your stats tells the same story as well. I was going to donate, but now I do not want to donate because of your strong bias towards one side.

Housing crisis affects all kinds of folks, both liberal and conservative, you've just managed to alienate about 1/2 of your audience.

I thought you were smarter than that.....remember keep religion, and politics out of this forum, only if it references specific legislation, policies or rulings that would affect the housing crisis.

Mr. Beck was with me that year in a Cambodian prison. He didnt do it.

Maybe ya'll are missing the point, here. The thread is funny! It's satire, aka parody. Patrick didn't create it (disclaimer: to my knowledge, he didn't create it. But by stating that, I'm making an assumption and possibly lying. This statement of deniability is by no means limited to the contents of this thread. I also deny that I had an affair with George Clooney.)

Glenn Beck is dangerous because he's given a national platform upon which he can spout his messages of hatred, lies & innuendo. He uses his platform to push his personal agenda, but that's what Faux News is all about. The more crap he spews, the more people that watch the network, the more money they make and that's what it's all about. Ain't nothin' grass roots about the tea parties, marches, etc. and people are too damn stupid to figure that out. They think they're marching for change - bu they're marching for ratings and money to line the pockets of the owners of Faux News. They're being played for profit.

What I don't understand is why people can spew messages of hate, lies & innuendo, but when anyone disagrees he's the bad guy.

Please put on your sense of humor hat and enjoy the link - it's fucking hilarious!

I couldn't point to Glenn Beck in a line-up.. nor have I ever heard or read anything from him. From the general controversy I've heard about him I assume (perhaps wrongly) that he and anyone who pays attention to him are over-the-edge ignorant fools. I need to move out of this ridiculous country. "Give me you tired, your poor" .. that's bullshit, Western European countries are waaaayyyy nicer to the tired and poor... way nicer. We just poop on 'em here. (and it's worth noting I am neither tired or poor.. I'd be very willing to pay even HIGHER taxes for things like single payer health care -- and I'd vote out at least 80 percent of military spending -- and before any wannabes respond to that.. you'd better be a veteran -- I am)

afghanmaker says

remember keep religion, and politics out of this forum

It's all political. Why should you pay your irresponsible neighbor's mortgage? That's a political question.

The answer to that question, and to our military spending, and to the bank bailouts, and to why our health care system makes little Bobby's parents choose between his chemotherapy or their retirement funds: corporate involvement in government.

Corporations play us and our representatives like a master musician, getting just the right notes to come out to block the public's best interest, and to protect the corporate best interest. Beck is one more instrument in their orchestra.

So, Patrick, do you deny that I had an affair with George Clooney? 'cause I did, I really did. Last night.

And then I woke up.

I wonder if George dreamed of me last night?

And now that I read this article http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/09/17/onthejob091709.DTL
I see the guy is right.

The debate is really going on at gut level and insurance reform advocates fail at that level. So... where can we find little Bobby, preferably blond and blue eyed, no, better, a girl, sweet and innocent and very very sick, and her bankrupted parents whose insurance won't cover the treatments? Or who can't get insurance.

That one girl could save Americans from themselves.

elliemae says

So, Patrick, do you deny that I had an affair with George Clooney? ’cause I did, I really did. Last night.

I don't deny it.

Patrick, I agree with afghanmaker. You do seem biased to the left. It seems to me that real estate is in the mess it is in because of leftist gov't policies and programs. Now it is being made worse by more gov't subsidies. Just like FDR made the depression much worse with his Communist programs. It's all about control and it looks like the one worlder's have won. Very soon we will have a new global currency and B.O. has signed a new agreement with the UN. B.O. will be the 1st U.S. President to sit on the UN Security Council. Amazing! It was Johann Wolfgang Goethe who said, “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Our liberty and freedom are gone because of the Democrat Party and their leftist/Communist agenda. We are serfs who are manipulated by a gov't tax code that taxes our labor and all we like sheep are led away to ...

Patrick,

What you don't understand is you cannot "project" all of the problems on Beck and others. You list about 5 to 10% of your posts on Beck and others. You are specifically targeting Beck, which is unfair and shows your true identity.

NO ONE can point to one political party and say they are the cause of health care issues, bank bailouts, etc. This is a losing argument if you are going to blame one party or another. What we have is a huge GREED and FEAR issue going on in this country and it is systemic.

I'm a physician and I can tell you that ALL of my colleagues oppose the ObamaCare bill. Yes, we want reform and not some behemoth (~1 Trillion dollars) of a pseudo-socialized medicine that gains very little. I will (and some of my colleagues) re-evaluate my role in medicine should this pass and many will simply retire since they will see more patients, less pay and more taxes, which will make it harder for us to pay our mortgages.

I just wished (and so many others that enjoy your housing posts) that you stop with your one sided political views. I never posted on this forum, but I joined today, because I thought you are wrong and so does other folks, which won't even both posting and worse, take you off their daily visits.

Just for sh*ts and grins, what is the traffic on the Beck links versus the other links you post daily? What has been your traffic lately? This should tell you something - (of course, hoping that I'm correct)

well I just love a guy who can cry on television.

wait, I take back everything I said.. Glenn Beck cries on TV? .. I'm hooking my cable back up.

few points Patrick,
about Obama and his pastor Wright and "How do you know Obama agreed with any of that?"
You don't bring your wife and kids to listen to someone lecture every Sunday that you disagree with.
As a physician, I can tell you that the government has not been successful in its role of quality care at a good price; the private companies have done it better. That said, you want health care costs to go down... tort reform might help. It's been $80,000/year for me before a single settlement against me and you can expect it influences doctor's decisions when they order tests. The government has been happy to give trillions to banks and certain large businesses, but they are cutting payments to nursing homes. As far as nationalized health care, Medicare is bankrupt and Medicaid doesn't even cover billing costs (paperwork) at the last hospital I was at. Have you been to a VA hospital lately? Why are we creating another nationalized healthcare bill when we can't afford what we have now? If you want "free" health care, I can tell you that you will get what you pay for. I wonder if people in other fields would be concerned if the government was going to take over their field. As far as "entitlement," you can get food stamps or go to a soup kitchen and the government won't let you starve, but the government won't pay for you to eat at steakhouses. Lowered expectations from patients will have to accompany any more nationalization of health care.
Wen

I think Glenn Beck is a paranoid schizophrenic and a fear monger. There's only one thing I like about him: He brings up a point of view and some material facts that many media outlets do not. For example: His coverage of Acorn. Acorn is corrupt.

Personally, I'd like to see him cover Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, and their connections to the Federal Reserve. Of course, he probably won't do that. The way that the system is set up now, investment banks get to engineer a financial bubble--an economic boom--and then when it's no longer sustainable shove the losses on the taxpayers.

The housing debacle is largely the government's fault. I say this because ultimately it was the government who established the Federal Reserve in 1913. True, it was drafted by bankers, but it was shoved through congress by a bureaucrat. Bankers only exploit the system because they know that the Federal Reserve will be there to take on all of their losses when the game is over. Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan seem to be mostly responsible. They own the U.S. Government.

In order for the media to do its job, it can't be politically motivated. The purpose of the media is to act as a unit of surveillance--to expose fraud and injustice and look out for citizens. The problem is that often the media turns a blind eye to issues that are politically damning for their corporate thugocracy. Perhaps this is why it is important to have different options: CNN--my favorite--NBC, ABC, FOX, etc. If there was only one outlet, we'd be screwed because we would hear only what the corporate controlled media want us to hear. This already happens now, but it would be far worse.

This debate is why I'm a registered Libertarian. Too many people are just partisan stooges getting played. There's no difference between a Republican and a Democrat, unless, of course, you're a politician. Then the only difference is whom your constituents are and whom you take rent from.

Erickk Hoogenbaum says

Personally, I’d like to see (Beck) cover Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, and their connections to the Federal Reserve. Of course, he probably won’t do that.

Yes, that would do wonders to rehabilitate Beck if he showed he was not purely 100% corporate-owned.

When the government is acting badly (as in creating the Fed, or Fannie and Freddie) it's doing it to benefit corporate interests, mostly banks it seems.

Glenn Beck's silence on this accusation condems him.

afganmaker, bwen,

Good comments.
I come to this site because it has a Libertarian bend that I find appealing. I'm objective enough to know that the liberal "low income housing" and neo-con "ownership society" are the same thing. I was always puzzled by the democrats dislike of Bush since he co-opted much of their platform. He reminded me of a 60's democrat.

Beck is a tool but, so are Bill Maher and Kieth Olberman. Surprising, to some degree that he is being bashed here since he was one of the few that called the financial crisis. He has done some decent segments on energy and I believe is one of the few talking about the federal deficit bubble. I haven't watched him since his move to fox though.

At first, I was a bit disturbed when this website began posting links regarding healthcare reform, but after a little thinking I realized it doesn't matter. Nothing Patrick posts will have any effect because this is the internet, and people here have already formulated their opinions and are not actually willing (most the time) to honestly evaluate them. Thus, pro-Reform people will click on each of these links and devour the information, anti-Reformers will probably just ignore them, especially the links to sites such as Huffington Post. And sadly, both sides are correct to do so, because the vast majority of information on the internet is presented with a bias (as is most the information on the nightly news). And one of the great things about people is that many of us are unable to see our own biases. So, Democrats don't understand how Republicans can consider Fox News fair and balanced, and Republicans don't understand how Democrats fail to see the bias in the so-called Mainstream Media. Thus, we simply circle each other and get nowhere, because we don't trust each other to be honest. A conservative on this site is apt to believe Patrick's links lead to unsubstantiated information or to a biased presentation of information, just as liberals are apt to assume any story about Obama's past associations is a smear campaign and has no credibility. Neither side often bothers to fact-check the other, assuming the worst. As a question to Patrick: how many of the articles linked to on this site have been fact-checked? Probably none, and yet we all agree to believe the information on the housing market, because it conforms to our bias, while letting our bias dictate our opinion on the other information.

If this self-described parody site cannot be commentary for Beck's endless rumormongering...then, wow--heap irony onto humor. Man, the false sincerity of the birthers, and that whole "Obama is evil" crowd is just too much. What a waste of oxygen...all for naught. LMAO.

I'm so glad to be an expat. Surf's up got to go.

"Beck is a tool but, so are Bill Maher and Kieth Olberman"

These

ahasuerus99,

That is one of the best posts I have read in a very long while.

I agree. We are now at a point where group think rules. Both sides generally want to hear only what reaffirms their believes. Any disagreement is immediately discarded as wrong. It's little wonder we can have back-to-back-to-back bubbles in our economy. We don't know any better and end up with childish web sites accusing a man of raping and killing a girl. It's a sad state we're in.

I am very glad that KurtS so eloquently proved my point. The Obama is evil crowd is in keeping with the Bush is evil crowd, the two go hand in hand. There was a Clinton is evil is crowd, a Bush the First is evil crowd, and a huge Reagan is evil crowd. And each side seems honestly unable to understand how the other side could possibly consider their guy evil. The Obama is evil crowd isn't racist, they are the same crowd that thought Clinton was evil, and that Carter was evil. Probably the foremost among the Obama is evil crowd is Thomas Sowell, himself an African-American. Different priorities and opinions yield different perceptions, and we all need to honestly attempt to see the other person's point-of-view or we will continue to be a polarized nation. Honestly evaluate this question, are the birthers any crazier than truthers? They aren't. Conspiracy theories are popular. There are those on the left who believe that Reagan's people arranged for the Iranian hostages to not be set free so that he could win the 1980 election. Are these people crazier than birthers? No, they are equally crazy. Next question, does a person holding a nutty belief such as birthers, truthers, or hostage agreement believers automatically invalidate all of that person's opinions? If so, the vast majority of people believe in some conspiracy theory or another (how about the Kennedy assassination), so if we eliminate all those people there aren't many left whose opinions we consider valid. Being dismissive of the other side never helps in the long run, because eventually the other side will be in power, and you'll be trapped in a see-saw of each side undoing the things the other side worked so hard to accomplish. That's a waste of a lot of time and energy. The key is building coalitions and finding common ground; those are the reforms that actually work. And no, I am not talking about bipartisanship, coalitions need not be bipartisan in the sense the word is usually used. A reasonable solution will attract all of one side and most independents, at which point the concerns of the other side are moot, but there will be limited danger of long-term change to the reform (provided it works). So far, healthcare reform has shown no signs of coalition building, with one side saying it will vote against anything without a public option and the other saying it will vote against anything with one. And the average person is so caught up in the screaming or the finger-pointing (examples of problems with the current system do nothing to prove the efficacy of the proposed changes, no one denies the current system is less than perfect) that they don't bother looking for a middle ground. I am not advocating what most might assume I am, that liberals should meet conservatives in the middle. I am thinking more, since the left is in power, that we can assume the most left wing of the party is at 100 percent reform, and that the middle left is at approximately 60 percent, the middle right is at 40, and the right is at 0. In this situation, a middle ground would probably be somewhere around 75 percent, a little closer to the middle left than the left because parts of the middle right can be pulled over as well. Would I support this plan? Probably not, but a large percentage of Americans would, and I would certainly accept it because the law of the land is the law of the land, and I find the threats of secession by right-wing states as silly as the threats from some liberals to leave the country if Bush was reelected.