patrick.net

OO says

You should include Palo Alto as well.
Recently there has been a glut of parachuting Chinese hot money coming into the Bay Area, and all they are buying are Palo Alto and Cupertino, for schools. These buyers are typically Chinese investors who have just cashed out of their very over-valued Shanghai or Beijing condo properties looking for a way to park their money overseas. Most of them will end up getting a green card for their kids, who will come here to pursue education.

http://faq.visapro.com/EB5-Green-Card-FAQ2.asp
"Create full-time employment for not fewer than ten qualified individuals; "

I suspect if real estate purchase will qualify to get EB-5 green card. But then, if these things are happening, they must have found ways to funnel money in to the system and US. That's unfortunate - it's almost smells like money laundering...bordering illegal, activity in this activity.

OO says

You should include Palo Alto as well.
Recently there has been a glut of parachuting Chinese hot money coming into the Bay Area, and all they are buying are Palo Alto and Cupertino, for schools. These buyers are typically Chinese investors who have just cashed out of their very over-valued Shanghai or Beijing condo properties looking for a way to park their money overseas. Most of them will end up getting a green card for their kids, who will come here to pursue education.

http://faq.visapro.com/EB5-Green-Card-FAQ2.asp
"Create full-time employment for not fewer than ten qualified individuals; "

I suspect if real estate purchase will qualify to get EB-5 green card. But then, if these things are happening, they must have found ways to funnel money in to the system and US. That's unfortunate - it's almost smells like money laundering...bordering illegal, activity in this activity.

China is like a Casino. It is easy to get rich, but can also lose everything overnight.
Lots people think that they are in the "system". Then get "executed" next day.

desibaba ......More and more people are lookig away from cupertino becuase it's too hot for them to handle. I stayed away from cupertino becuase to me it's a grade ghetto full of chinidans. I wanted to live in a more diverse neighbourhood.

It's painful to see why people don't realize this ? Their kids cannot be just living in Cupertino for ever, who knows where they would go for employment ? So giving them richer experience would help

There are many other ways than EB-5.

I was once working in China helping some American businesses set up joint venture/ subsidiary there. The key officials in China got to decide all the rules, the tax holidays, the form of investment (cash vs. equipment), the valuation etc. So to make sure that the American side will make money, there are lots of things one must engage in. And I assure you this is all legal and clean on the table...

Let's take a hypothetical example. The only son of this key official will come to the US for undergrad study. He won't have enough money to show as financial support. It just so happens that this American business that is doing business with his dad has a scholarship freshly set up for Chinese nationals. It also just so happens that the criteria for this scholarship fits the kid just like a custom-made glove, and the set-up of the scholarship, the admin side of it is completely handled by an outside consulting committee which cannot be traced back to the American business. So, the son happily comes to the US on a full scholarship plus a generous stipend money. Now, the son graduates. It just so happens that a subsidiary of this American business is looking for fresh grad, and is more than willing to sponsor green card. It also just so happens that this son possesses all the skills and particulars this position is looking for.

The real life example that everybody knows is the son of the Chinese ambassador to the US. He went to UPenn undergrad on a full scholarship that "happens to be" sponsored by a prominent Chinese business person who can use his dad's influence just a bit.

There are so many variations of how a connected person from China can obtain permanent residency here. EB-5 is really for someone who has no better connections in either country.

@OO

Thanks for the above comment. I wonder if this case is fairly common then.

AIJ,

this particular hypothetical case is quite common among a certain circle. There are many more lighter versions of this happening every day.

Back to the topic of moving money in and out of China, it is a lot simpler and easier than people think. Just think about 30,000 of Chinese students pursuing undergrad studies here, over 90% of them with absolutely no scholarship nor permission to work. All their tuition is legally exchanged and wired out. They are on international tuition so we are talking about $40K tuition + room and board per year. And you think an average Chinese family can pony up ~$200K for their kid's college fee?

OO says

How naive. If you get caught in China, it is NOT because you break the law, it is because you stepped on the toes of those who are more important than you, it is because you allied with the wrong faction of the party.
There is a contemporary Chinese saying, law is made to be broken. Whoever that has ever did business in China will not cite official rules on anything as a proof that certain things cannot be done. If you cannot get around the official rules, you don’t deserve to do business in China, and your lunch shall be eaten, simple as that.

LOL! With that kind of business philosophy, i will be sure to expect the next Tong-Mafia to rise up in Cupertino.

OO says

All their tuition is legally exchanged and wired out.

Wrong, US Universities, allocate free tuition for International students for the sake of "diversity'.

If your a US citizen, you dont get these handouts. Tought luck kiddo, have a Coke and a smile.

OO says

And you think an average Chinese family can pony up ~$200K for their kid’s college fee?

Costs passed to native students and sometimes US taxpayers. UCB gets 30% funding from state.

Thomas,

you are wrong about the free tuition for international students for UNDERgraduate studies. Most international students pursuing college-level education do not get free tuition, in fact they have to pay a higher International Tuition, just go to any state university website and look for the difference between international tuition fee and in-state fee. International students are a key revenue source for most US universities now.

US students at least get grants and financial aid, which are all off limits to international students. Check your facts before you bark.

Don't worry, there will be Tong-Mafia rising up throughout the Silicon Valley, whether you like it or not.

all those fairytale stories with no way to verify. One ambassador's son in Pennsylvania does not drive up prices all the way in Cupertino. Why Crapertino when the same ill gotten cash can get you a lavish mansion somewhere else? or much better education in London, NY, or MA?

Children of ambassadors and tycoons don't need to go to crappy public high schools in Crapertino when they can get into a world renowned private school like Phillips Academy, Trinity School, or Horace Mann (all in the east coast). Even if they buy houses, they would not be slumming it with the commoners, They would be living in mansions in Atherton, Beverly Hills etc.

Actually out of all of the top 20 private prep schools, only 2 are in CA (1 in so Cal and 1 in Oakland) all the rest are in NY, MA, and New England.

Serpent,

Could be.

How do you explain the outward appearances of affluence in The Fortress?

Heck, I even noticed it a couple of months ago. I found myself over there during a time of the week when I normally do my grocery shopping so I stopped at the Trader Joe on Bollinger (in "San Jose" but only a technicality; it was in The Cupertino Schools "Fortress"). The price for the organic whole chicken was a lot more than what I usually pay at the Coleman Avenue location in San Jose.

Cupertino prices!

Interesting comment about wealthy Chinese investors and real estate prices. This would explain why Palo Alto (aka: Shallow Alto), Cupertino, Los Gatos, and Saratoga are hideously overpriced compared to the rest of the country. For me, I would rather work hard for 5-10 years, save and bank a million dollars into gold, silver and other asset classes and then retire at 45-50 overseas in Thailand or South America and live like a king! Of course, I also do not have kids or an expensive wife to worry about. California is WAY overpriced.

sybrib says

Serpent,
Could be.
How do you explain the outward appearances of affluence in The Fortress?
Heck, I even noticed it a couple of months ago. I found myself over there during a time of the week when I normally do my grocery shopping so I stopped at the Trader Joe on Bollinger (in “San Jose” but only a technicality; it was in The Cupertino Schools “Fortress”). The price for the organic whole chicken was a lot more than what I usually pay at the Coleman Avenue location in San Jose.
Cupertino prices!

Sigh... you seem to have selective amnesia, we've been over this many times
Really? price of organic chicken costing more in Cupertino as proof that rich aliens are fueling the fortress prices? You've gotta be kidding me. Trader Joe's don't set prices based on the source of money of their customers. They set prices base on the market and costs.

Why do people who livie in the fortress appear rich? because they make more money? people who have lived in the Fortress areas before prices exploded are enjoying low property taxes and low rates for HELOC. of course there are people who legitimately made fortunes in the Silicon valley, others feel the need to "keep up with the Joneses", early immigrants saved and lived frugal lives so that their kids can drive flashy cars and eat Sushi at Blowfish... etc etc.

its pretty easy to rack up debt to buy thousand dollar purses, party at Santana Row, and go on exotic vacations, even on a Vietnamese coffee shop hostess pay. its not hard to look and live rich with easy credit... how did we get here?

are there people here who smuggled money from China? possibly a handful, but driving up prices in fortress areas? No friggin way.

sybrib says

Serpent,
Could be.
How do you explain the outward appearances of affluence in The Fortress?

conspicuous consumption is not the same as wealth.

SJ says

Interesting comment about wealthy Chinese investors and real estate prices. This would explain why Palo Alto (aka: Shallow Alto), Cupertino, Los Gatos, and Saratoga are hideously overpriced compared to the rest of the country.

Started some 12 years ago with stock options from high flying IPO prices, once that dried up, over 100 SV public companies used back dating of options. After that you saw easy toxic loans boom to over half of home purchases. Go back before 1998, it was rather inexpensive without the enabler gone amok. It was pretty much reported back inthe papers how one buyer overbid by 100% back in the day. Like drunken sailors, didnt matter, there was plenty more options to cash out, or that is what they thought.

Fall Real Estate 2000
Publication Date: Wednesday, Sept. 20, 2000 & Friday, Sept. 22, 2000

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news_features/real_estate/fall2000/2000_09_22.lowmarkt.php

SF ace says

Observations about Cupertino and why the market is so strong.

Where was this madness pre-1998 for decades past ? We didnt see this kind of madness over RE. And when cities like Cupertino were booming in the 80s-90s, for all the right reasons, prices nudged a little higher, but never to the extent we seen in the past 10-12 years.

Cupertino schools any different vs back then, or just another hyped up realtor selling point?

thomas.wong1986 says

Cupertino schools any different vs back then, or just another hyped up realtor selling point?

Real quick search - yes
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2000/10/04/SantaClaraCupertinoUnionElemCupertinoMiddle.txt
840 in 1999
http://www.school-ratings.com/schoolRatings.php?schName=cupertino
916 2009

You have to admit Cupertino has changed a lot in the past 10 years, maybe more. Whether they have the money to support prices is debatable, but you cannot argue that Cupertino has become more Asian.

ch_tah says

You have to admit Cupertino has changed a lot in the past 10 years, maybe more.

More Asians today vs back than, is that what your saying ?

Are you gonna compare the students (the dumb nut white rednecks like me) from decades past who went into the workforce and built Silicon Valley, created new industries, new jobs and the tech revolution to who exactly ? Are they gonna be better and smarter and exceed accomplishments of the prior generation?

Repeat after me, chindians don't have magic fortune telling powers, they dont have gold egg laying dragons, they dont have unlimited commie money (lol), they dont make perfect financial decisions, they are not immune to the lies of realtors.

thomas.wong1986 says

More Asians today vs back than, is that what your saying ?

Are you gonna compare the students (the dumb nut white rednecks like me) from decades past who went into the workforce and built Silicon Valley, created new industries, new jobs and the tech revolution to who exactly ? Are they gonna be better and smarter and exceed accomplishments of the prior generation?

More Asians - Yes.

You asked the stupid question if schools are any different now compared to then. The answer by statistics (which everyone on this board loves when it proves their point - including you) is that Cupertino students get better scores now than they did then.

Better, smarter, exceed accomplishments - smarter (as described above, yes); exceed accomplishments, maybe.

Hopefully, their arguing skills will be better than past generations.

Serpentor says

Repeat after me, chindians dont have unlimited commie money (lol),

Actually, they do. Fed reserve is printing money like crazy, and Chinese government is saying "We must match the amount of money Fed is printing. or Chinese currency will be too strong :)"

ch_tah says

Better, smarter, exceed accomplishments - smarter (as described above, yes); exceed accomplishments, maybe.

Better test scores does not equate to "smarter". Critical, analytical thinking and judgment does not show up well on tests. I'll concede that they work a lot harder at doing well on tests...

pkowen says

ch_tah says

Better, smarter, exceed accomplishments - smarter (as described above, yes); exceed accomplishments, maybe.

Better test scores does not equate to “smarter”. Critical, analytical thinking and judgment does not show up well on tests. I’ll concede that they work a lot harder at doing well on tests…

These kids are smart using whatever criteria you want:
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/109472/teenage-entrepreneurs?mod=career-work

1. Thats one kid. Hardly data.
2. Her dad is a venture capitalist, I'd call that privledged rather then smarts.

sorry, but the VC industry is still dominated by the whites. The above example being an exception. (and the VC mentioned in the article is not one of the prominent silicon valley ones as far as I know)

Corner office folks live in Atherton & Los Altos Hills. Most Asians in Cupertino are engineers/middle managers, not corner office.

Serpentor says

1. Thats one kid. Hardly data.

2. Her dad is a venture capitalist, I’d call that privledged rather then smarts.

When I provide data, it doesn't count because it is test scores and it isn't "critical, analytical thinking."
When I provide an example of critical and analytical thinking it doesn't count.

I guess what you're looking for is:
Cupertino is exactly the way it was 20 years ago. It isn't more Asian than before. Houses don't cost any more. Nothing has changed. Same with Sunnyvale, regardless of zip code, houses cost the same, as there is no difference whatsoever.

Ahhhh...fantasyland...

ch_tah says

I guess what you’re looking for is:
Cupertino is exactly the way it was 20 years ago. It isn’t more Asian than before. Houses don’t cost any more. Nothing has changed. Same with Sunnyvale, regardless of zip code, houses cost the same, as there is no difference whatsoever.

Cupertino is surely not what it was 20 years ago. Houses cost more, and it's not a better than it was, it's worse.

the only data I'm interested in: income vs home price & Rent vs home price, and how they relate to comparable cities... basically the standard metric for housing affordability.
All that wealthy immigrant talk are just hand waving and story telling. Show me the money.

Don't you guys get tired of everyday replying or debating each other's point of view, when we know that the only thing that is for sure is that nobody have a crystal ball.

either you guys have a lot of free time or not working hard enough.

chip_designer says

Don’t you guys get tired of everyday replying or debating each other’s point of view, when we know that the only thing that is for sure is that nobody have a crystal ball.

Ego?

chip_designer says

only thing that is for sure is that nobody have a crystal ball.

For some its their job to predict future, with or without a crystal ball.

Here is one example...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Qualcomm-results-shine-amid-apf-1794197422.html?x=0

"For the current quarter, the company expects net income of 68 cents per share to 72 cents per share"

There are alot of people in SV, and many many other parts of nation, who work as Financial Analysts in corporations running quarterly and year end forecasts. Thats all they do... paid to predict the future. When asked what the future looks like by their CEO/CFO, they certainly dont answer back ' no one knows the future'. You better have a number. A little bit of math goes a long way.

ch_tah says

I guess what you’re looking for is:
Cupertino is exactly the way it was 20 years ago. It isn’t more Asian than before. Houses don’t cost any more. Nothing has changed

The difference it this...

The Brand Name of "Cupertino" ... by one big slick hype-marketing machine!

chip_designer says

either you guys have a lot of free time or not working hard enough.

Says the pot to the kettle

Shouldnt you be designing potato chips or something?

My friends' nephew over there did not get accepted to one of the elite UC's for last fall. Not to an elite Ivy, either. But I suppose Tufts has enough cache at least in their own minds so it will do.

And face has been saved in the mom's social pecking order.

sybrib says

My friends’ nephew over there did not get accepted to one of the elite UC’s for last fall. Not to an elite Ivy, either. But I suppose Tufts has enough cache at least in their own minds so it will do.
And face has been saved in the mom’s social pecking order.

and when he gets out and is just another cube dweller.

i'm sure mom will be beaming with pride after spending all that money on higher education. lol

Syphilis says

i spending all that money on higher education. lol

Also the shuttling between Cupertino and Boston is not cheap, either.

wait, so Cupertino schools didn't get them an automatic admission to Cal? gasp!