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All you proclaimed proud renters. Who do you think you're renting from?

burritos says

All you proclaimed proud renters. Who do you think you’re renting from?

very wealthy people; my rent checks go to downtown Boston. I'm in a reasonably nice multifamily place. It was sold last year for $100M, and the rents are around $11M/yr. Property tax is $1M, if I were king it would be $5M/yr, since the place is nice and all but it was built in the late 80s so much of the property value is sheer site value and not undepreciated capital investment.

Curiously, the county agrees with me. I see on the property roll that the land/improvement split is ~55/45.

burritos says

All you proclaimed proud renters. Who do you think you’re renting from?

Ans:

I only rent from individual landlords who have been landlording for 10+ years and who have purchased their properties back in the mid-1990's or earlier.

Being the "perfect" tenant allows me to have the luxury of choosing my landlord, just like they choose me. Goes both ways here.

I also check property tax records to make certain that the landlord is current on taxes, plus I do an additional loan check via a property profile through First American.
No newbies. No accidental landlords and certainly not any defaulters.

To clarify further, each and every landlord I have rented from is a multi-millionaire, generally Democrat politically although I have rented from conservative Republicans. Both, having the criteria I mentioned above, have been excellent landlords who I would recommend to any considerate tenant.

btw, "proud renter" = wealthy renter here, so watch your snark, please.

T/Y!

~Misstrial

I'll bet many of these investors are Chinese. This same thing happened in Vancouver Canada just before the 1997 reversion of Hong Kong to communist China. Hong Kongers were walking in with cash, buying up several $1M houses at once and leaving us mortgage buyers out in the cold. It's unfortunate, but expect it to continue with the demise of the US dollar and China's economic growth.

Misstrial says

:

I only rent from individual landlords who have been landlording for 10+ years and who have purchased their properties back in the mid-1990’s or earlier.

Being the “perfect” tenant allows me to have the luxury of choosing my landlord, just like they choose me. Goes both ways here.

I also check property tax records to make certain that the landlord is current on taxes, plus I do an additional loan check via a property profile through First American.
No newbies. No accidental landlords and certainly not any defaulters.

To clarify further, each and every landlord I have rented from is a multi-millionaire, generally Democrat politically although I have rented from conservative Republicans. Both, having the criteria I mentioned above, have been excellent landlords who I would recommend to any considerate tenant.

btw, “proud renter” = wealthy renter here, so watch your snark, please.

T/Y!

~Misstrial

These 10+ year landlords at one time were newbies. Or they inherited it, which from a meritocratic point of view, is even worse. So why can't there be new newbies? 10 years ago, I was just getting out of college, so I personally need some time to get up to speed to build my portfolio. Now, I'm not saying "you" need to rent from a newbie. But this thread gives me the impression that there should be no landlords newbie or otherwise and that all residences should be owned by the occupant.

I vote green in all elections.

burritos says

These 10+ year landlords at one time were newbies. Or they inherited it, which from a meritocratic point of view, is even worse. So why can’t there be new newbies? 10 years ago, I was just getting out of college, so I personally need some time to get up to speed to build my portfolio. Now, I’m not saying “you” need to rent from a newbie. But this thread gives me the impression that there should be no landlords newbie or otherwise and that all residences should be owned by the occupant.

First, thank you for voting green.

Second, there are many reasons why I will not rent from a new landlord. I would have to make a list in order to be of help to you. Don't have the time now.

Although I will say one thing about new landlords - they seriously underestimate the maintenance costs of property ownership and they generally carry heavy loans against the property that gives them an observable level of financial anxiety which leads to frequent rent increases because they failed to plan for their investment. I don't want to rent from someone who cannot afford to take care of their property.

This precarious financial position results in an over-anxiety about their investment situation and they tend to over-worry about everything since they are on the edge assetwise. They tend to be tense and overly concerned with power.

Established landlords who are wealthy and whose net worth isn't dependent upon one or two investment positions have a relaxed attitude and don't get all upset because the water heater needs to be replaced, the dishwasher has rust and the pipes are severely corroded, or that an overceiling water pipe burst during an earthquake necessitating ceiling repairs.

I could go on but you should get an idea of where I'm coming from. My spouse is an engineer who performs all sorts of repairs himself so the landlord's repair or maintenance costs are kept as low as possible. (We do not charge for labor, only replacement cost of items agreed upon.) Hate to brag, but we are ideal renters.

And another thing about new landlords is that they tend to withhold security deposits (for very minor repairs that are legally considered "normal wear and tear") more than established landlords.

I haven't personally experienced this however in my line of work (law) I do a fair amount of legal counseling to tenants who are facing this problem.

I have other reasons, don't have time to do a comprehensive list. In any event, for these causes I will not rent from a new landlord with less than 10 years experience.

~Misstrial

I've experienced this first hand. I'm a first time buyer with a baby on the way. I have been using Patrick's formula and trying to at least break even with a home around 400-430K in the San Jose area. The two houses I have found and made offers on have not worked out because in both cases I have had to compete with 5-10 all cash offers. It's discouraging to say the least.

Yep thats another way around it. Those dagnabity investors driving the price of houses down. WHY YOU COULD HAVE PAID MORE. I say we all go after that investor. Because he deprived you of paying 20% more. I think every retail buyer should pay more. Because well even a realtor will tell you nothing better than a big juicy steer for dinner.

So a realtor probably got screwed in this one too. See now you could go out an find a house for 20% less in this enviornment. Because if you look out your window realtors are now eating grass instead of food for dinner. But you have no window of course because the stupid investor stole that from you. I like Patricks formula also. However this give me a chance to ask if Californians like paying the highest gas prices in the land. Because well the tax base is so eroded. The price of gas has gone up. The only joy in this for me is the leeches have to pay for their freebies now.

ArtimusMaxtor says

However this give me a chance to ask if Californians like paying the highest gas prices in the land.

Hawaii has the highest gas prices, not California.

http://www.honolulugasprices.com/Honolulu/index.aspx

~Misstrial

Investors can be people like you & me. I know some of the REIT's I own are buying up the cheap real estate with dollars that people put into these funds & ETF's. They are getting income from the rentals which gets passed on to the investors. It's like hating oil companies, utilities, banks, etc. Almost everyone owns some of these stocks through pensions, retirement vehicles & mutual funds. If you dislike these people "buying low" so bad, join them. Look into buying some REIT mutual funds or ETF's that are benefiting from this bubble in real estate.

Investors are the bane of the existence of someone like me, a REAL first-time home buyer. I put in an offer on a short sale earlier this year. Above asking price. Listing agent told my realtor he didn't want to take my offer because the "first offer was gold." My realtor couldn't believe it--the bank hadn't yet closed the offer window. So about four weeks after my offer and after calling the listing agent weekly, we finally found out that the "first offer" had been accepted with a closing date two weeks earlier than mine. Last week I checked on the property and found out it sold for $6,000 less than my offer. My realtor and I could not believe it. Terms were exactly the same--20% down, conventional loan, and the only difference was my closing date was two weeks later. D'ya think there was something fishy going on there? And for what it's worth, folks, the reason we first-time home buyers are staying away is precisely because of crap like this. I cannot possibly compete with an all-cash investor (don't have $200,000 laying around gathering dust). And I might add that I actually want to live in the community and be a productive member of a community which is why I want to buy. Investors just want to rent for the highest rent they can get. You should see some of the homes that are being rented for top dollar and the renters just trash the place, and the "investor" doesn't give a rat's patoot. Puh-leeze. Spare me. And in my market prices need to come down another 25% to get back to historical affordability, a dubious term if ever there were one.

EconomicReasoning says

They are getting income from the rentals which gets passed on to the investors. It’s like hating oil companies, utilities, banks, etc.

This is like offering the jews at Auschwitz shares in I.G. Farben.

If you dislike these people “buying low” so bad, join them. Look into buying some REIT mutual funds or ETF’s that are benefiting from this bubble in real estate.

I don't dislike them for making money, I dislike them for being scumfuck leeches bringing down the system (increasing inequality and impoverishing others) at their personal gain.

http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/churchill_monopolyspeech.html

this is how they drive up prices... They scoop up houses for cash, do some cosmetic work, then put them back on the market at vastly inflated prices. Then you bid on one, win the contract, send out your inspector, and find it needs $40K in foundation, $10K in electrical, and another few thousand in roofing. So, in order to have liquid cash to fix the foundation on a 1914 farm house with no permits for the additions that have been plopped onto it, so it doesn't slide across the driveway in an earthquake, you ask to adjust the bid price down. They cry that they break even $30,000 *above* what you are offering, and say no. It's not your job to make sure the gamble they took pans out, so you walk away. It sits on the market for another month or so until a greater fool thinks it's a good deal. Bingo... house is way to expensive for condition, neighborhood, trouble.

Prairie Rose
If you're still looking for your first home purchase, then you are a renter. And you clearly think renters are inferior beings who trash places. So there's your reason why people don't like first-time homebuyers. They are renters now and will not know how to handle property of their own.

Watch your bigotries. They can come back to haunt you.

Wow, this appears to be a forum for people to slam each other instead of providing helpful advice. I'm sure that wasn't Patrick's intent in setting it up.

I don't have a huge resentment toward flippers/investors who legitimately spend their
effort fixing the property and sell it. Some how, maybe lack of my imagination,
I don't see it as a blatant act of inflating the price of housing. I resent the
fact that some investors just throw money at the housing market just to
inflate the price for their profit.

Here is what I vow to do. If I see any act of flipping with an intent just to inflate
the price of housing, I will just walk away. I hope some of you here will also be
wise enough to boycott the flippers and reckless investors. But if everyone does it,
the housing price will bottom out much faster, also.

Misstrial says

Now just think how much better we’d all be if you weren’t in this position to begin with, such as having lived within your means like renters have to do each and every month.
And you think you’ll recover in 3 years?
Having counseled hundreds of debtors in various legal predicaments, all I can say is that son, “You’re dreamin’.”
To this very day, the banks and lenders are not even granting secured credit cards until one year has passed from a foreclosure date (lenders look at short-sales as foreclosures).
And to top it off there is the big increase in energy, food costs, and interest rates coming by summertime.
Its sickening to see homedebtors and the broke-@ssed former property owners boast how quickly they’re going to make their comeback. Hah!

I think what really sickens you is how someone who has been down can recover while you just sit and watch. And saying "just think how it would be if you had never been in that position" is like telling someone "Well you shouldn't have been in a car accident and broke your legs". Sometimes things happen, we pick up, and move on. We all can't have a perfect lives but we learn and help others along the way as well. Pouring salt over open wounds doesn't really help.

Troy says

I don’t dislike them for making money, I dislike them for being scumfuck leeches bringing down the system (increasing inequality and impoverishing others) at their personal gain.

common_sense says

I’ll bet many of these investors are Chinese. This same thing happened in Vancouver Canada just before the 1997 reversion of Hong Kong to communist China. Hong Kongers were walking in with cash, buying up several $1M houses at once and leaving us mortgage buyers out in the cold. It’s unfortunate, but expect it to continue with the demise of the US dollar and China’s economic growth.

Only in The Fortress. That leaves the rest of Santa Clara County for us "API gentiles".

Nice head fake mistrall

ArtimusMaxtor says

Nice head fake mistrall

Its "misstrial" as in miss and trial.

~Misstrial

Infiltrate says

I think what really sickens you is how someone who has been down can recover while you just sit and watch. And saying “just think how it would be if you had never been in that position” is like telling someone “Well you shouldn’t have been in a car accident and broke your legs”. Sometimes things happen, we pick up, and move on. We all can’t have a perfect lives but we learn and help others along the way as well. Pouring salt over open wounds doesn’t really help.

Life has consequences and many times these consequences for faulty decision-making are worse than we could have ever imagined.

Not lacking compassion for you here, however, the multitude of those like yourself who over-borrowed, over-spent, over-loaned, over-everythinged has severely weakened the rest of the nation financially.

Try to think of how you and others like you have inflicted a tremendous amount of financial pain on America and particularly upon those who are innocent and had nothing to do with participating in the real estate run-up. People such as retirees with homes fully paid-for, disabled people on fixed incomes, injured people who subsist on disability payments, and renters who must live within our means all of the time.

btw, Salt is an antiseptic which is why there is a burning sensation. Other antiseptics such as rubbing alcohol, betadine (povidone iodine), dry red wine, hydrogen peroxide, propolis, and/or injected antibiotics all deliver pain to one extent or another. Sorry, but its time to man-up and take your medicine.

~Misstrial

@E-man,

Great comment above!

@Misstrial

>And another thing about new landlords is that they tend to withhold security deposits (for very minor repairs that are legally considered “normal wear and tear”) more than established landlords.

This, unfortunately, is he norm in Japan and tenants often have to use the threat of a lawsuit to get back their deposit (if it is deserved but not returned).

E man,

It was a group of investors. I should have mentioned it. The property was
closed quickly and put back on the market right away. The listing price went
up by 20%.

I was approached about 2 to 3 months afterward. They asked only 10% from the
original price. My original offer was 7% above their purchase price, so they thought
I would be a good buyer. I asked if they have renovated the place. No.
The place was as is. So I declined. If this was a legitimate owner occupying the
home, I would have helped by buying the property. And I would not have felt
this much resentment of losing out on the deal.

What I am trying to say is that you can tell investors/flippers by a simple
research through Zillow or other website. I feel that by purchasing the
properties like that would only contribute to the bubble.

My inclination and resentment happened for a reason.

American in Japan says

This, unfortunately, is he norm in Japan and tenants often have to use the threat of a lawsuit to get back their deposit (if it is deserved but not returned).

My LL was a nice guy and gave me back my Y220,000 in Y10,000 notes when I was leaving after 5 years.

He was kinda shocked that I kicked back Y20,000 to him to cover cleaning the outside veranda since I left that quite a mess.

I need to temper my LL-hate to remember that not all LL are scum. He bought in 1984 I think and I have zero problem with him pocketing 100% of my rent, since his building had 5 units in the footprint of a SFH of the area, which is very "virtuous" in the Georgist scheme of things (plus for bonus points he was living on the first floor, LOL)

http://goo.gl/maps/qG0o for the satellite view.

Nobody says

I feel that by purchasing the
properties like that would only contribute to the bubble.

You should have come in with an all cash offer like 33% of the buyers in February (and 50% if you are in Miami, Phoenix or Vegas). If it is a good price from the flippers don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Your one trasaction is not going to change the world of real estate one iota. The patrick posters that do not want to pump up another bubble are like a few pieces of sand on the worlds beaches. Others will purchase the property and capitalism will reward them.