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Slightly OT(but slightly not)...Why are people so dumb?
invite response
2011 Jun 11, 4:34am 21,740 views 174 comments
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I wouldn't attach this to California. People being "dumb"-as in stretching- is universal across the country. I know my fair share of people who bought HUGE mcmansions in NC during the bubble.
My take on the "greatest generation" and today's is that we as a generation were raised by the children of that generation. Back then it was more or less expected that if you had a job that paid halfway decently you could also afford a decent house and live a normal-if not somewhat boring , mundane life. In other words stability. This mentality was hammered into their children: Their parents lived the American Dream and so too would they, which many of them did for decades.
Enter modern times and that is no longer the case. There is very little stability in both the economy and the job market. Any and all jobs can be shifted to wherever at the drop of a hat. whatever benevolence companies once had for their employees is long-gone. US corporations are now multi-national conglomerates and their profits are no longer heavily tied to the US consumer. Buying a home today is more a liability than it was 30 years ago.
In other words the average American has an out of date attitude in regards to the "American Dream" basically because it doesn't exist and the idealized, romanticized notion of buying a home and living a mundane-yet comfortable and stable existence for decades is antiquated.
Secondly, while there has always been investing in real estate, I can't help but feel that there is a very strong attachment to the idea of buying houses for mere investment potential. Not sure why because anyone that took econ 101 will show you that stocks beat the crap out of RE all day long. Yet because its a cozy idea to buy a house and squeeze money out of it this has become a prevalent thing. It has tuned houses into this sacred thing versus just a place to live. That sort of mentality needs to go if we're to even come close to returning to a semi-normal RE market.
It Guru,
You sound like someone who doesn't have a family.
I guess you will never experience the joy of making and
raising your kids. Sure it is hard work. But the point
is that when you have family, you will want to leave
some and not spend it all in a blaze of glory.
Not sure why because anyone that took econ 101 will show you that stocks beat the crap out of RE all day long.
it's hilarious people think a house, that does nothing but provide shelter, could compete with an international conglomerate like General Electric which produces medical equipment, turbine engines, the next generation of power generation equipment as well as light bulbs.
do they own shares of GE?
of course not because the sheeple think their house, which provides shelter; similar to a cardboard box or a van down by the river, is a better investment.
it's mind boggling.
owning a house in the bay area is similar to buying a mid-level luxury sports car like a porsche 911.
you're paying a heavy premium to upgrade to nicer accommodations when you buy a home. it carries more cachet than renting. but it's ultimately not necessary, an indulgence. they both do the same job, but one with more style. similar to a porsche, the premium paid for a home is for the style (in this case the home owner's lifestyle).
renting is a toyota corolla. it's the financially responsible decision, it gets the job done, but won't impress the neighbors. it has no style and thus the cheaper alternative.
Affordability will be high when a median income can buy a median house and pay it off in 5 years or less.
...and when rents are so low that a cashier can rent a 5000sqft home. Wouldn't that be great? We'd all live like Puff Daddy.
Keep dreaming...
Haven't commented in a while, but MPIBTYP prompted me to agree about real investment vs. home buying... markets are markets and all markets (including housing) can make you money if you're smart, but in housing you make money (from capital gain) because other people are stupid. If the housing market were really efficient, then there would be no gain beyond inflation, since the intrinsic value of housing doesn't really increase.
Actual investment generates capital gain through the genuine creation of wealth - information, technology, or whatever, that makes something more efficient.
Blather on all you like about collecting rent - in an efficient market this won't grow much faster than inflation either. It'll go up or down with standard of living of your renters. Generally it seems like the landlord housing bulls here are not exactly slum lords, but they are not Donald Trump, either. Unless your renters are getting good capital gains, your collected rent won't go up much faster than wage inflation.
Unless, of course, you're screwing stupid people...
In the long view, how can collecting rent be as good (per unit capital invested) as stocks? Where do the landlord housing bulls think real wealth comes from???
I rent a small apartment, drive a beater, and save 1000 bucks for any emergency.
Sounds like a fantastic life :)
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Jun 12, 2:43am
The historic answer for why people bought in Cali even at those stupid prices was simple. For many decades Cali real estate offered otherwise ordinary people with few prospects a “solid†chance to get rich
"Historic", but not "current". In these parts, it is a cultural hangover of gao kao or whatever they call it, genuflection the API of the public K-12 schools in those neighborhoods.
Things like paying $750K for a house that rents for $2600/mo
Except, you get your numbers wrong. I bought a house for $550k that rents for $2850.- in one of the nicest neighborhoods that LA has to offer (agoura hills) with fantastic schools.
I guess I am just a bad and stupid person...
I should have stayed in the small, beat up shitbox we rented for 5 years for $2600.- and make my previous landlord richer. After all, that's what smart people do. It's common sense, right?
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2011 Jun 12, 3:42am
Things like paying $750K for a house that rents for $2600/mo
Except, you get your numbers wrong. I bought a house for $550k that rents for $2850.- in one of the nicest neighborhoods that LA has to offer (agoura hills) with fantastic schools.
I guess I am just a bad and stupid person…
I should have stayed in the small, beat up shitbox we rented for 5 years for $2600.- and make my previous landlord richer. After all, that’s what smart people do. It’s common sense, right?
Your anecdote does not refute the portion of my post that you quoted.
people will continue to spend 50% of their take home on housin
nobody spends 50% of their money on housing because the bank WILL NOT give you a loan for that scenario. Period!
You guys have to move past what happened in 2006...things have changed. Prices have come down. Lending standards are strict.
Your anecdote does not refute the portion of my post that you quoted.
I am giving you my personal real world example because your numbers are on 2006 levels and not accurate. You call people that buy right now stupid based on false calculations.
When rents are in line (and higher) than purchasing then I consider people that buy - smart.
Those smart people have waited out a massive crash, saved 20% for downpayment, have their taxes well documented, no debt, excellent credit and are now buying.
But I am sure all that sounds stupid to you.
dunnross
2011 Jun 12, 5:01am
Comments: 242
Los Angeles, CA
Sun, 12 Jun 2011 at 11:04 am Link Top Bottom Quote Email Flagdunnross says
people will continue to spend 50% of their take home on housin
nobody spends 50% of their money on housing because the bank WILL NOT give you a loan for that scenario. Period!
You guys have to move past what happened in 2006…things have changed. Prices have come down. Lending standards are strict.
Are you sure? What about all those people in the Fortress, who bought in 2000-2006. I know how much everyone at my work is making, and about 80% bought in the fortress during this period.
Are you sure? What about all those people in the Fortress, who bought in 2000-2006. I know how much everyone at my work is making, and about 80% bought in the fortress during this period.
Am I sure about what? That nobody that buys in 2011 is spending 50% on their income on housing?...Yes, I am sure because you cannot get a loan for that.
If you don't believe me...walk into Wells Fargo on monday. Tell them you make $100k and want to see what you qualify for. You'll be surprised. Because its not a lot. And if you have car payments and other debts its even less.
Which is great in my opinion. How it should be.
No point dragging on a conversation about idiots who lied about their income and got themselves into trouble (and the rest of us too) by buying houses that they should have never bought.
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Jun 12, 5:39am
about 80% bought in the fortress during this period.
dunross, I think 80% of homeowners in The Fortress have owned their homes for a whole lot longer than you say. It is one reason they can afford to stay there, with Prop-13 and all. It's also a reason that in some Fortress places like Cupertino, based on Prop-13 assessments the schools are not always so flush with operating cash.
klarek
2011 Jun 12, 5:59am
If you don’t believe me…walk into Wells Fargo on monday. Tell them you make $100k and want to see what you qualify for. You’ll be surprised. Because its not a lot.
It's over $450k. That's a lot. Are you saying it's not much because he could have gotten a $1m loan five years ago? Well, so fucking what, those times were plain insanity. To get a loan at even 4x your salary is dangerous.
You guys have to move past what happened in 2006…things have changed. Prices have come down. Lending standards are strict.
In SubOink's universe, reality is pegged at 2006. Have to prove your income? Lending standards are strict. Prices have come down? Then it must be a good purchase.
Would it hurt you to compare things to a more sane time in history, like ten or fifteen years ago? Making a comparison to a time when the lending industry was tripping balls is such a worthless point.
klarek
2011 Jun 12, 6:04am
When rents are in line (and higher) than purchasing then I consider people that buy - smart.
They're not higher where you live.
http://www.deptofnumbers.com/affordability/california/los-angeles/
klarek
2011 Jun 12, 6:10am
Except, you get your numbers wrong. I bought a house for $550k that rents for $2850.- in one of the nicest neighborhoods that LA has to offer (agoura hills) with fantastic schools.
I guess I am just a bad and stupid person…
I should have stayed in the small, beat up shitbox we rented for 5 years for $2600.- and make my previous landlord richer. After all, that’s what smart people do. It’s common sense, right?
1. You're saying that your house can rent for close to what you were paying to live in a shitbox. Beyond my disbelief in what you're saying, why wouldn't you have rented the equivalent of what you currently own all those years rather than the shitbox?
2. You're not breaking even at that price, for that equivalent rental amount.
3. You need help with math.
SubOink says
When rents are in line (and higher) than purchasing then I consider people that buy - smart.
They’re not higher where you live.
http://www.deptofnumbers.com/affordability/california/los-angeles/
I know what everyone is paying in rent here around the block and I know what I am paying in mortgage. Very easy but thanks for pointing me to a website with a hundreds graphs and statistics that somehow supposed to prove something.
SubOink says
You guys have to move past what happened in 2006…things have changed. Prices have come down. Lending standards are strict.
In SubOink’s universe, reality is pegged at 2006.
As a matter of fact, it seems that you and the patrick.net clan are the one that are stuck in 2006. That's why every other post is about how insane it is when you spend 50% of your income on a house...bla bla bla...
I know that lending standards are strict because I just went thru it and experienced it first hand. Did you? What do you know? Other than reading patrick.net and doom and gloom statistics.
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Jun 12, 6:32am
SubOink says
it seems that you and the patrick.net clan are the one that are stuck in 2006. That’s why every other post is about how insane it is when you spend 50% of your income on a house
That is because they are still bellyaching that they would have to do so in 2011 to buy in "The Fortress": and they are not open to buying outside The Fortress Walls.
My partner and I live outside the walls, it can be quite nice out here. Less pretentious, too. No need to keep up with the Joneses or the Chens or whatever.
And the kids don't have a that impractical peer-pressure-induced Sense of Entitlement.
Tiger Moms don't fret so much about keeping their Face in their social circle pecking order regarding how elite of a college their kids go off to... because already lost their faces a long time ago by not being a HomeOwner inside The Fortress walls. Getting that trauma behind oneself can be Liberating.
FortWayne
2011 Jun 12, 7:07am
Unfortunately it’s the American dream, entitlement. It’s not about hard work, it’s about being lazy, getting fat, and feeling like you deserve the world because you are American!
The really f’d up part about all that is the rest of us who try to be fiscally responsible just end up getting screwed and responsible for the other people’s mistakes. Really makes you want to get a FHA loan and the default and live rent free for a couple years…I actually don’t know why the hell I don’t.
Thats how I see our nation turning out to be as well. It was always about hard work and saving. Life was cheap back then too because of that. Today exact opposite, so many just want to sit on handouts crying that government needs to bail out their sorry asses because they are special.
Maybe we have been too comfortable as a nation for too long, without realizing that it was a lot of hard work that brought us to this level of success. Add government corruption, union thugs and fraud thats perpetuated all through every sector that government touches and this is where we are today.
I remember when conservative thinking has saved this nation from collapse, today that hope is bleak. Too many conflate conservatism with right wing extremes.
FortWayne
2011 Jun 12, 7:10am
I know that lending standards are strict because I just went thru it and experienced it first hand. Did you? What do you know? Other than reading patrick.net and doom and gloom statistics.
you can still put down 3% and qualify for the loan having low income and stretching once liabilities. Plenty of brokers in Glendale are doing just that today.
But you can ignore all the fundamentals and reality and tell yourself that you are "winning" because you spent all your money buying. Whatever makes you feel better.
you can still put down 3% and qualify for the loan having low income and stretching once liabilities. Plenty of brokers in Glendale are doing just that today.
That's what they say but in reality you won't be able to buy a decent house because you will be competing against a 20% straight ahead loan guy OR a cash offer and lose every time.
Nice Try Chris.
klarek
2011 Jun 12, 8:22am
3. You need help with math.
Definitely! But not from you
Just as well. Haven't needed to teach basic arithmetic to anybody since I was a teenager, so you could probably find better tutoring.
I know what everyone is paying in rent here around the block and I know what I am paying in mortgage. Very easy but thanks for pointing me to a website with a hundreds graphs and statistics that somehow supposed to prove something.
That page only had six graphs. What you call "statistics" are really just metrics. Not that I expected you to know the difference.
But sure, I'll take your word for it that rent is cheaper than owning in your area, even though your own math is showing otherwise.
As a matter of fact, it seems that you and the patrick.net clan are the one that are stuck in 2006. That’s why every other post is about how insane it is when you spend 50% of your income on a house…bla bla bla…
Well when the govt tries to implement quasi-bubble measures for "softening" the crash (thereby duping dumb people into believing the crash is over therefore buying), it's important to juxtapose their stupidity to what happened up through the bubble. We're using the bubble as a yardstick of stupidity. You're using it as a yardstick of normality.
I know that lending standards are strict because I just went thru it and experienced it first hand. Did you? What do you know? Other than reading patrick.net and doom and gloom statistics.
I know what it was like to get a loan ten years ago, five years ago, and today (I've been approved twice in the past eight months). So I have three points to compare. What do you have? Tell me.
dodgerfanjohn you bring up a great question but the answer to it is multifold. I don't mean to open up a can of worms but here we go.
The demands that employers ask from employees keep increasing. This is because the labor market has dramatically expanded post world war two. Civil rights coupled with womens rights (some might argue today gay rights) created equality in the legal sense in terms of employment. The government did not offer incentives to expand jobs during this and thus created a surplus of labor. It is not surprising that a household could not withstand inflation of the early 70's and thus had to have both parents work. Drug tests started in the 80s, background checks maybe in the 90's and today some even require credit checks. A bachelors degree is the defacto high school diploma of decades ago. Employers in the past that would let things slide and hire say a high school drop out frankly no longer exist. The military won't take people without at least a GED, box stores won't hire people without that and factory work is more sophisticated then ever.
Secondly government policies have gradually removed the family and put government in its place (no pun intended). I won't take some sort of religious right argument here but outside of government usually religious organizations are the second largest provider of social services (In Mass it's the Catholic church)
Social assistance in the form of welfare is nearly circular and compounds with time. It actually doesn't work as the low unemployment rates of the 90's would have killed it off. Heck Florida seems to be the only state that is starting to drug test those that are on welfare.
Third. It can be argued that the division of rich and poor is the mere possession of items (I don't believe this myself). So liberal economic policies are largely pushed along with any means of which to afford those items.
I used to do collections on phones (cell and then LAN lines). There was a debtor once that was owed $300..not a huge amount. They were paying $20 a month..BUT sent it western union each time which cost $10. So 15 months it will take them instead of 10..AND they'd end up paying $150 more or 50% more than the principle. When I pressed why they thought it would "Keep them in good standing!?" then again I saw people signing up for a credit card and giving SSN's out to someone just offering cheap crap..nothing even showed it was a real employee of that place. I worked in retail and a customer was sick of waiting. He claimed he spent 30K at the store. A manager took him up on that and said if thats true then everything he has is free. Ran some information..total lie.
------------
Lastly and this is more based on a conversation I had a few years ago in a interesting class. The US is the most successful former colony. Look at north and south america, africa, asia etc. In being a colony the important asked was to own things. Owning your own place with a huger of amount of space was seen as envious. A giant lawn (non productive land is what it really is). Reminds me of someone I know that's on welfare that traded a 3 year old rav4 for a new H3 (half the mpg..go figure)
Maybe we have been too comfortable as a nation for too long, without realizing that it was a lot of hard work that brought us to this level of success. Add government corruption, union thugs and fraud thats perpetuated all through every sector that government touches and this is where we are today.
I remember when conservative thinking has saved this nation from collapse, today that hope is bleak. Too many conflate conservatism with right wing extremes.
Ah, the old "things were way better back then" canard. You do realize that union membership and liberal policies were at an all time high in your days of yore? Post WW2 was the time of a liberal Democratic congress and Truman, JFK, LBJ, and Ike, who today would be considered a liberal even though he was a Republican. The policies of both parties, but mostly of the conservative wings of the Republican and Democratic parties, are what have killed off good paying jobs and funding of education, including huge tax breaks for the rich. Take a look at this graph:
I love how people wash off history and then recycle it in another form for their own purposes. And another thing...Paul Revere.
Sure, there is government corruption and there are some union thugs, but for the most part, it is corporate welfare and its lobbying for limited regulation are what have really hurt this country. In case you are wondering, Im a small business guy that has been involved in several successful tech startups. I have never worked for a union and Im very pro-business (but anti-corporate).
sybrib is right....Let me tell you some examples of real estate some other countries . One of my friends bough some condo for USD 30K in Mumbai and sold it for 350K ( It's more than 12 times ...!!!).
Go figure... No wonder they were okaay buying a house in Los Gatos without a problem. And It seems they have many such properties back home.
klarek
2011 Jun 12, 10:16am
…which is what this website advocates. Renting.
Not really. Go read the main page. It isn't anti-owning, it's anti-buying-like-a-dumbass. Those who strive to not make the biggest purchase in their lives like a dumbass have found value in this site.
Why are people so dumb?
Wow.
Go read the book “The Richest Man in Babylon†and report back to us. If you could understand 5% in that book, you would understand how the world work, and you might realize who is actually the dumb one.
After you’ve read that book and still didn’t learn anything from it. I will reimburse you for its cost. Are you up to the challenge?
Success isn’t by chance, but by choice.
The Richest Man in Bablyon has 7 basic principles:
1) Start thy purse to fattening - save/invest
2) Control thy expenditures - watch out for self serving brokers
3) Make thy gold mutiply - use powerful investments
4) Guard thy treasures from loss - watch out for brokers with
their hot tips.
5) Make of thy dwelling a profitable investment - rental properties, your own home---but stay within your means.
6) Insure a future income - do work that you love to do. Become excellent at it.
7) Increase thy ability to earn - education never stops. Keep reading good books like this one, The Millionaire Next Door, Rich Dad Poor Dad and so on.
1-3 (save, budget, invest) are the most important points.
bubblesitter
2011 Jun 12, 1:19pm
bough some condo for USD 30K in Mumbai and sold it for 350K
Good investment scheme. You may want to consider buying that for 350K and sell it for 3500K. :)
bubblesitter
2011 Jun 12, 1:26pm
If this were true, I expect interest rate to go down YOY, too.
I am very clear on that, whether interest rate go down or you expect it to go up, downward slide of home prices will continue.
B.A.C.A.H.
2011 Jun 12, 2:04pm
MyPunanyIsBiggerThanYourPunany says
Make thy gold mutiply
That pagan didn't understand that you need a very expensive nuclear reaction for transmutation.
Gold don't multiply. Yes, it is money. No, it is not an investment. Because it doesn't multiply/grow, nor does it make income.
FortWayne
2011 Jun 12, 2:58pm
Sure, there is government corruption and there are some union thugs, but for the most part, it is corporate welfare and its lobbying for limited regulation are what have really hurt this country.
Government corruption is corporate welfare. Don't take two as separate please. It's the clubby nature of Washington and K street.
What I mean to say is, I want to die with nothing in my pockets after having a great life enjoying the limited time afforded me. So many on these forums write about how much they have in the bank or in investments. They wake up looking at the balances and pinch every penny. I rent a small apartment, drive a beater, and save 1000 bucks for any emergency. I blow all the rest enjoying myself and on others. By the way I make a six figure salary and have zip in 401k or stocks or banks. They are all setup to take from us.
What the hell do you spend your money on? Prostitues and blow? haha.
SubOink says
klarek says
3. You need help with math.
Definitely! But not from you
Just as well. Haven’t needed to teach basic arithmetic to anybody since I was a teenager, so you could probably find better tutoring.
Love it! We are like Batman and the Joker. You're the Joker.
Well when the govt tries to implement quasi-bubble measures for “softening†the crash (thereby duping dumb people into believing the crash is over therefore buying),
This is what you seem to not get. I didn't buy because I think "the crash" is over. I bought because for years I knew what I wanted to spend and what kind of house I would like to buy. I waited until I could buy what I was looking for, for what I wanted to afford. The time came. I hated renting and wasted way too much money that way. That's not the only thing I hated about renting. But I won't get into it...we all know the reasons as they have been discussed with impunity in this forum.
SubOink says
I know that lending standards are strict because I just went thru it and experienced it first hand. Did you? What do you know? Other than reading patrick.net and doom and gloom statistics.
I know what it was like to get a loan ten years ago, five years ago, and today (I’ve been approved twice in the past eight months). So I have three points to compare. What do you have? Tell me.
Good for you getting pre-approved. Now, what does that have to do with knowing how the loan process goes these days?
Anybody can get pre-approved. There is nothing to it. You have nothing to compare until you go thru an 30 or 45 day escrow these days. Sorry, but your pre approval doesn't mean jack.
terriDeaner
2011 Jun 12, 3:38pm
Go read the book “The Richest Man in Babylonâ€
Oh for fucks sake! This is just more rhetorical horseshit for the chicken soup soul. Fuck. How 'bout "be excellent so that excellence becomes you"... or "losers never win, and winners never lose"? This type of pseudo-intellectual, masterbatory crap is worthless.
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I am not talking about IQ or intelligence level.
I'm talking about uncaring and unthinking. The people who walk or drive around in a daze....they have the intellectual capacity, but choose not to use it.
The people who buy houses in CA at the moment.
This is actually sort of a serious question. And for it I go back to my grandparents. Immigrated here from Germany in the early 1920's. Both their parents had fought in WWI for the Germans, and they came here because Germany was @^%$^ up. Seriously, my grandfather was starving to death in Berlin. Came here, learned english real quick, finished school up through 8th grade and thats it. Went to work. No advanced education. Not even a serious worker. My grandfather played semi pro baseball and was drafted by the Yankees, but broke his leg on the last game before reporting to the Yankees minor league team. My grandmothers life was unremarkable as well. I'm not even sure when they met.
But they did, saved, went to work really hard jobs during the depression, saved more, bought a house. In 1941 at age 37, my grandfather, with baby on the way, was drafted into WWII. He was a medic under Gen. Stillwell in southeast asia, assigned to assist a Chinese Army unit. At some point along the way, things were a real bloodbath there. I only know that from history, he would never talk about it except to complain about marching over the Burma road a couple times, and saying that they had to stand watch at night more due to the tigers than the japanese.
When he got back, they stayed in the same 2 bed/1ba house, even with a kid. He got a job at a nearby tire factory. They were happy and even though they never had a TON of money to spend, they enjoyed life pretty well. honestly, California seems to have been almost a magical place in the 50's. The picture perfect land of milk and honey.
After years at the tire factory, he became very involved with the union, eventually retiring and going to work for the union full time. At some point in the early 70's, he felt the union was pushing pay too much. He warned that the tire company would move if the union kept trying to negotiate higher salaries. He retired in 1975 in part because of the unions insistence on negotiating higher salaries. The tire factory closed in 1979, and I can't remember if they moved to another state, or overseas, but nearly all their production is now overseas. The location is now the Citadel shopping center in Commerce.
So he retired at 65, enjoyed the last 10 years of his life retired. Never spent a lot...def did not buy stuff he did not need. He did collect stamps, coins, and model trains. He started buying me baseball cards in 1979 when he would pick me up from school once a week. We would go and get an ice cream at Thrifty's and a $0.15 pack of Topps baseball cards. He drove the same car for 10 years before replacing it, took a vacation once a year, spent when it was justified, was frugal most of the rest of the time.
My grandmother was a clerk with the county part time for 30 years.
Despite no real education, they managed all this(with six figures in the bank as well). They used what was known as "common sense". Things they could not figure out for themselves...they took the advice of someone who was brighter. They did things the "tried and true" way. And they never needed, wanted, or pursued extravagance, even when they had actually worked hard and earned it. A night out once a week was an ice cream cone and movie in a more upscale area like Whittier or Downey. Vacation was a tent in Yosemite. A car was a means to transport them somewhere. Pleasure was a glass of fresh squeezed orange juice on the backyard patio.
So whats the point of all this? It's to question how people currently live their lives. Still after all the economic problems of the past 6-7 years, people still INSIST entitlement to material goods. People still stretch to buy the most house they can possibly get a loan for. And people still run around without any regard for common sense.
And so onto my question...Where is the disconnect? How did we go from immigrants who could not speak the language comming here and building a hard scrabble life into the quintissential American Dream....to what we have now days. People who are seemingly incapable of exercising common sense. People who spend nonsensical high 6 and low seven figure amounts on homes and land that in no way shape or form will ultimately sustain a value that high. People who make the largest(by far) purchase of their life on whimsy and emotion USING SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY(EFF U SUZANNE).