patrick.net

Catchy slogans... Real Estate Revolt!! Real Estate Revolution!! Real Estate Rebellion!!

I am on board with this. Bellingham Bob has a good point about rent-seekers, and if we were to organize, it would be good to have a demand that includes verbiage that makes it difficult for wealthy folks to become SFH slumlords.

I had started a thread a while back trying to come up with ideas that were actionable. This is a good one, and I am willing to to help out. It would be good to have a professional looking website with a list of demands that most working-class people could find reasonable. So, look at Occupy Oakland's demands, take note of how kooky many of them are, and make sure that this group's demands don't come-off like that. Really, something like this only accomplishes anything if it can amass a huge number of members / petition signers. We would need to gain participation from a significant number of people in the areas with $725k limits to try to make elected scumbags feel anything.

Group name: BADBUY (?)
"Bay Area Dwellings Being Unfairly (appropriate word starting with "Y")"
If someone can think of an appropriate synonym for "inflated" or "manipulated" that starts with a "Y", that would be sweet.

Ive been preaching about a buyers strike to all my friends for the past few years. Not only should this happen. It needs to be cast into the media spotlight.

ArtimusMaxtor says

Difference between me and most. I'm not fooled, paper is asswipe. It's the assets that make you rich and they are out there now in a big way. PAPER DETACHES YOU FROM ASSETS. See I can go to the grocery store with a fucking cow asking to trade it for a box of hamburger helper. They won't do it. See my asset has no value theirs does. They have very successfully established the means of trade. They have warehouses full of paper they can print more freely and take anything and everything they want. They take labor and material. With credit and paper. Thats the game.

Do you realize you have only property? That you have nothing that is legal for trade? That you can only trade paper for ANYTHING? That you can't legally publicly trade your property for anything but paper?

Don't site coins thats in the constitution and the US Government coins.

Tender:
the act of tendering; an offer of something for acceptance.
something tendered or offered

futuresmc says

In my darker moments, I begin to ponder whether this was the plan for the US housing market all through the bubble, setting up the next bubble in rental property, and getting a nice chunk of taxpayer change in the process. What caught them unawares was the global interconnectedness of the housing market and the domino effect of their derivatives.

I'm a bit of a conspiracy buff (by the way conspiracy is no longer theory) In my circles it has been common knowledge for years that one of the major goals of the NWO (New World Order) is to do away with Private Property. It's interesting because in the past 5 years there were quite a lot of eminant domain abuses that have occurred where the Govt has taken choice property from citizens, to give to the private sector (developers) using higher taxation as the reason that they have the right to do so. This is a blatent abuse of that law. They in turn have not given the owners market value. People should have been paying attention back then but that was during the boom when everyone was fat and stupid.

I do believe this entire bubble was staged to accomplish this goal, along with the endless attempts to keep the market prices over inflated, the refusal to lend money and the illegal back door deals.

Look I am addressing the subject of property in general. Not homeowners. There is no such thing as a homeowner. Ask anyone living in a fucking tent.

While I like the idea of not participating in a rigged market,
the reality is that I need shelter. My sister is due in December
and I need to move before I get suckered into changing that
first dirty diaper (I share a rental with my two sisters
and brother in law)
I have already made 3 offers since September and I'm going
to go look at a house today at 10:00.

REAL ESTATE IS RIGGED. FREE THE HOUSING MARKET!

They count on the prepetual need for food and shelter. Hey live on. I like occupy. I suspect right now even as we speak. They are devising ways of dividing their movement. Establishing leadership for one part of the division. You ask my opinion. Honestly. It's to no avail.

The bullshit of of them owning everything practically either by outright ownership.

Or as the only ones able to place value on your property. Meaning they benefit from EVERY fucking transaction. Getting much, much more out of ANY transaction than you. Even the transactions you make with your OWN property. Is over.

If you ask me. In my opinion. The deal is done. All thats left to do is watch them as they fall apart as we, laugh, party, sing and dance while it happens. Goodbye greedy

I'm with you, Patrick. The only slogan that comes to mind is Global Jubilee, 2012!

"It depends where you buy for cash. If you can buy in Reno at well under 100 dollars per SF, you would never be able to replace the house for that price."

Buy low, sell high. Or, at least, buy low. We haven't EVEN seen the "low" yet with a worldwide deflationary depression pending due to the EU and its Euro likely to dissolve triggering Japan to fail and for the "great Chinese hope" to tank (for now at least).

I listen only to people who actually predicted our current crisis and KNOW the underlying reason for it, like Kyle Bass.

To Superjet - buying is not your only choice when it comes to shelter. You're really going to buy a small house or condo for just yourself? What if you need to move or get married and have kids yourself? Then you're stuck in your bachelor pad....

Forcing housing prices to lower that quickly to where it destroys banks creates a whole new set of problems.

Superjet says

While I like the idea of not participating in a rigged market,
the reality is that I need shelter.

Of course you need shelter, but you definitely do not need to get yourself into debt!

Don't do it, don't be the slave of the money-lending law-corrupting 1%.

How about "Restore the Real Estate Market'

Or "No Debt, No Gimmicks. Keep it Real.'

Or 'Stop rigging real estate'...kind of what Ignatius said before

I agree wholeheartedly, though at this point, I don't think it should align with the whole occupy wall street thing. This is more of a libertarian/small government movement than like a 'tax the rich' thing...even if the super rich tend to benefit the most from the rigged real estate market.

How's this sound?

We're on strike!
Enough already!
Don't buy a house
'til they close FHA Fannie & Freddie!

DJ says

How's this sound?

We're on strike!
Enough already!
Don't buy a house
'til they close FHA Fannie & Freddie!

That's a few too many syllables for a protest chant in the last line. I'm going to sponsor a friendly amendment:

We're on strike
A buying freeze!
No market hike!
End GSEs!

futuresmc says

Not at the moment, but think back to 1980. Did anyone think that Bank of America, Citigroup, or JP Morgan Chase would exist in their current form? Ofcourse not. These banks merged and ate up smaller competition globally over three decades to get to be the TBTF banks

BofA, in 1998 than a SF based bank, was acquired by South Carolina Nations Banks. Latin American loans sunk the orginal BofA.

stop voting for D and R as a start.

problem is no one else will.

so this situation is hopless. OR its a perfectly functioning democracy - people WANT unnaffordable housing.......for the next buyer of thier crapshack who will fund thier retirement!

We all expected house prices to crash terribly after the bust but what they did was lower interest rates horribly instead in major planned effort to KEEP PRICES HIGH.

Now you cant earn $ on a CD and house prices are still too high. Worst of both worlds. Thanks Obama!

Count me in. I'm a little chicken about marching or occupying as I'll have to bring my kids along, and those billy clubs and the tear gas can't be good for developing brains. Speaking of little ones, Uncle Superjet, are you serious that you need to BUY a place to avoid bonding with your little niece or nephew? Truly? Is your sister so powerful she'll make you the sole diaper changer? What's the baby's father good for? What's your real reason?

The whole renter thing is new and a little weird because up until recently, buying was the ONLY way to go and renters were losers. I am happy to think that renters now will be a higher class of people, especially if they have chosen to honor a strike against a rigged market. On the other hand, the scammers are still at work scamming-- you can read at Piggington's about realtors who bought and sold to each other during the boom for ever ascending prices. Now in the bust the realtors can sell to each other for rock bottom prices because the deals never get out of the office. Shouldn't absence of ethics by the NARtards be addressed in the Strike Platform too?

What about Prop. 13? Has anyone considered that a 'SFH slumlord' might be a struggling fool who has a property he can't live in and doesn't pull in enough rent to fix up damage caused by RENTERS? My dad's job required him to move often, sometimes back to a location he'd worked in before, so when he bought a house he kept it, but has had really bad luck with renters trashing the place or not paying to the longest extent allowed by law. Now in retirement he's stuck with a bunch of stinkers but has fortunately discovered property management firms who will weed out the worst applicants. Bellingham Bill (I miss you, Troy!) suggests taxing the *beep* out SFH rents. Mr. Bill, would that be a tax on the profits (rent received minus expenses) or on the total amount (rent received before subtracting taxes, repairs, etc.)? It always seems like when there is a deduction or allowance for anything, the wealthy and well-connected end up not paying anything. I remember hearing about Reagan's Ranch out here (near one of the places we lived) which of course was a movie star/politician's playground, but because there were a few horses on it, it qualified as a "farm" and showed a net loss for tax purposes. General Electric got money BACK and paid no taxes on their billions. How do we root out the "parasites?"

The system hasn't given much reason for hope. Almost anything different is worth a try.

Slogan " Don't BUY into the SYSTEM!"

rubyrae says

I'm a bit of a conspiracy buff (by the way conspiracy is no longer theory) In my circles it has been common knowledge for years that one of the major goals of the NWO (New World Order) is to do away with Private Property.

Put on your tinfoil hat...

thomas.wong1986 says

BofA, in 1998 than a SF based bank, was acquired by South Carolina Nations Banks. Latin American loans sunk the orginal BofA.

No, it wasn't. Then-BankAmerica was acquired by NationsBank, which was formerly NCNB (for North Carolina National Bank). NCNB became NationsBank when it absorbed Citizens & Southern/Sovran. Prior to being NCNB, it was a merger of American Trust and Commercial National, which merged to be American Commercial, which renamed itself NCNB after a merger with another bank. The enterprise also bought numerous other banks at various points, including First National in Florida, First Republic in Dallas, BankSouth in Atlanta, and one of the biggest acquisitions was Barnett of Florida.

I'm pretty sure pre-NationsBank merger BankAmerica lost money in the Russian financial crisis, not Latin America. I don't think BofA got deep into Latin America until after it purchased FleetBoston (former BankBoston assets were based in Latin America, not as much for Fleet).

StoutFiles says

Forcing housing prices to lower that quickly to where it destroys banks creates a whole new set of problems.

Yes, but we're going to have big problems either way. The question is what segments of society will pay the heaviest prices, how long it takes to resolve, and what things will look like after the resolution. Big banks falling will cause massive problems for a year or two, particularly in the largest economies. However, I believe that the pain will fall more greatly on the people who caused this trouble, and that some semblence of justice and a truly free market will be the end result once we make it through the chaos and the banks are no longer TBTF. The other way, tollerating the zombies for at least another decade, will allow the slow bleeding of everyone BUT the people who caused the chaos, and allow businss as usual to continue, which means less justice and more kleptocracy. Once Sept. 2008 came around, any choices that could have allowed us to avert the chaos were lost. Now our only choice is how to deal with the chaos.

thomas.wong1986 says

BofA, in 1998 than a SF based bank, was acquired by South Carolina Nations Banks. Latin American loans sunk the orginal BofA.

My point was that these banks in 1980 were regional chains at best, no where near big enough to be described as global bohemoth TBTF monsters that will destroy the global economy without government bailouts. If large rental corps are permitted the same deregulation and the same type of fire sale deals in real estate that banks were given in the form of public/private partnerships (that only serve the private, while bilking the public as they grow) and favorable monitary policies, over the past 30 years, they will grow just as big if not bigger as they are actually backed by something people need, spaces to live, do business, and grow food.

Both parties are screwing the people.

Yes, make a form we can submit and use the list as a tool to communicate our view.

bgamall4 says

PockyClipsNow says

stop voting for D and R as a start.

It is a mistake to not vote Democratic for as long as they side with the Volcker Rule.

Democrats only support the Volker Rule because it's politically popular. If they got into power to a point where they could uniformally make it law, they'd water it down so it was meaningless. They are as bought and paid for as Repbulicans and the Volker Rule demands fiscal discipline from the banks and adult responsibility from elected officials.

OH YEAH!
AND ALSO RON PAUL 2012. NOW I'm GOING TO START PRAYING THAT HE PULLS FROM THE RIGHT AND GOES ON THE INDEPENDENT TICKET.

solver says

OH YEAH!
AND ALSO RON PAUL 2012.

Fanned.

I will sign up for this campaign. Will not attempt to buy until this crazy government stops throwing our (tax-payers) money away.

Just to break your dream, this will never work. WHY?

Because as soon as cash-flow make sense, "investors" will jump in and buy. Flip it or rent it out for rental income. It's capitalism. Big fish eat small fishes. There's no turnaround to this. You can boycott all you want, when the price is cheap enough, I'm buying my 3rd property. That's just me.

11 yrs ago (2000), I debated between buying into the housing game or stay out. I bought into the housing game because I KNOW we can't fight the system and win. You think you can, but you don't. Look at U.S. history again and again, the power of government manipulation is just too great. When I saw a bubble forming and it's generating huge income of local government, I know housing price will not easily come down. No one wanted it to come down. That's the main income revenue for our states & counties.

Government officials will do all they can to keep house price UP UP UP. They are homeowners themselves, for God's sake. They won't do anything for you or me. They are there to make a living - out of our trust & illusion of happiness - for themselves. Bigger house, better cars, more yard for themselves, not you or me.

What did I choose to do in this situation?

Anyway, to make a long story short, I bought my 1st home with less than 20% just to get in the game. Made my 1st bowl of cash by selling the 1st, bought the 2nd. Sold the 2nd and bought my primary residence now. Kept my primary and bought a rental properties with cash. Income more than 10% annual return.

Now, I'm looking to buy 1 or 2 more when the price is right. This is the game, folks. You can't beat them. It's too damn hard and simply not worthy the pain. There are better things to do in life than fighting the invisible hands. I rather spend my time with my kid, knowing that the renters cover his tuition down the road. He probably can't beat the system at that time by himself, so I am fighting it for him with me saving the money in advance. I advise all to do the same.

I hear you: "We need fairness in the system, we can't have the Fed Reserve, big banks monopolizing the system, hate the government lobbyists making the decision for Wall Street, not main streets, etc... "

I know that shit all too well.
I know that shit all too well.
I know that shit all too well for too long.

That's why I am not wasting my life fighting them. They built a fortress of regulations and an army of cash. We can't take them down. It's really too fucking big to fail now. I just don't believe it's time worth wasting. Learn the rule and play by the rules and I had proven to make some very profitable gain out of that. In my opinion, that's the practical way to work the system.

My .2 cents.

Paper makes your assets worth nothing. If you don't run the transaction through the people that have the paper your just fucked. PAPER IS LEGAL TENDER OR THE ONLY THING LEGAL FOR TRADE. Yep theres a fucking law that says that. Nice they could declare that and have the slow witted American government sign it into law. So they are the only ones that can print paper that is the only legal means of trade. See I go into Wal-fart with a brand new 45 inch big screen. I want a camera. A small one. They won't do it. Not only that its not legal to do so. So there is a middle man in every fucking trade that happens. Those dickheads with the paper. You know what hey I'll come out there I want in on all your deals hows that? Same thing.

Is it a ripoff? Hey are they building a pipleline from Iraq to Iran to refine oil because all the Iraqi oil refineries got blown up? Did Russia, Iran, Citigroup and America and China get the benifit for the invasion. Stealing Iraq's oil. Save me the bullshit and the trip. Russia has armed the other side of the conflict so has China for years. Everyone knows Russia sent troops into Afganistan to help the Americans and get the Gas pipleines. They could not get the first time they invaded. Its about resources. BUSINESS. Save your shit for the tourists. I am more or less pissed off being treated like a fool along with the rest of the populace. Not withstanding having to hear about it every single day. I am not buying into no one else appears to be either.

See thats sort of like does macy's ask gimbles or does a bear shit in the woods kind of thing.

Anyway since paper is legal tender. Or look tender up. Legal for trade nothing else is. See. Only other thing is quarters. So basically your property has ZERO VALUE FOR TRADE. (Paper looks at your property and says; YOU HAVE NO VALUE, YOUR WORTH NOTHING. ONLY I AM. NOT ONLY THAT IT SAYS I AM ONLY PAPER, AREN'T YOU A BIG SUCKER. YOU CAN'T DRIVE ME, LIVE IN ME OR EAT ME. BUT I CAN STEAL THAT ASSET OR RESOURCE FROM YOU EASILY.) Not unless they get in on the trade of course. Which you have to let them in on the fucking trade. You have no choice. Also if you sat down and figured it out. They get most of it.

Hey typical investor talk. Nothing new. I'll just roll with it. Hey I will too. I can sure say something however. Of course its not worth the time and the effort. Why deal with social issues. It's a waste of time. Hey I'm in the game. I know how we think. No investor can really say they would not like to take a wad of paper and ram it up some mortgage brokers **** though. I'll make out no matter what. Not dependant. It's the life. I guess I have a screw them attitude. Think about those payments while your trying to flip a house sweating sponjuliks while the next payment rolls up on you. Hey roll with it. I'm on hold buying in a negative equity market and have nothing better to do..

I have pondered for weeks now what a sneaky Russian would look like. A vodka swilling. Hey I'm on your side kind of dude. Would he or she be from Colorado or maybe. I have no groupings and have no homeland I guess.

Thing about them is they keep coming and never let on dumping useless garbage all over your lawn for you to clean up. Not that you haven't cleaned the garbage dumped on your lawn at least 20 times. The useless neighbor will throw it right back over the fence again.

A very intelligent crew to say the least. Hip, reasonable. Deal is no one figures they are in it for themselves. Playing as yet another group of philosophical, bullshiters that are nothing but business. Taking in the naive. Meanwhile dumping their useless garbage on someone, intelligent's, front lawn and sidewalk so the naive and trying to understand can trip all over it.

As I figure it to the mountains of Colorado are just a wonderful place to house norad. May not make sense to some. Sure starting to make sense to me.

bgamall4 says

futuresmc says

Democrats only support the Volker Rule because it's politically popular. If they got into power to a point where they could uniformally make it law, they'd water it down so it was meaningless.

Oh, is that why the hedge funds are stuffing Cantor's campaign coffers with record amounts, so they can get rid of Dodd-Frank? It is not Glass-Steagall, but if you repeal it banks will consolidate power further!

Gary Anderson strategicdefaultbooks.com

They are stuffing Republican coffers with record amounts because that is the Washington social contract. You stand up for the 1%, you get money for your next campaign. Democrats are engaged in political theater as much as Republicans. They talk a good game on the Volker Rule, but all the big players that caused the financial crisis will receive 'special exemptions', effectively neutering it. Dodd-Frank was weak, and the Republicans oppose it because that is their role in the drama. Democrats defend it, but if either party ever got a true mandate that couldn't be filabustered or blocked over and over (say over 65% of both houses and the presidency), nothing meaningful would get done regardless.

Buzzards in the desert. Adversaries? Yea sure ok.

China drilling oil in Iraq
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124293064819744203.html

Russia drilling oil in Iraq
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2011/10/26/Russias-Lukoil-starts-drilling-in-Iraq/UPI-35841319628832/

Iran building or to build oil refinery in Iraq
http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2010/10/29/iranian-company-to-build-oil-refinery-in-babil/

Actually in some reports 5 refineries

Iran Iraq sign oil pipeline deal (hey weren't these the guys blowing each others heads off not to long ago)

http://www.irannewsdaily.com/view_news.asp?id=148994

We have successfully established Democracy in Iraq. That is clear. Now I would not call this the spiders sucking the juice out of a fly as some might think. Some not all mind you of them OWS people think this was a war for oil.

So my question here might be is BP and China, Russia, Iran are they all going to send their oil through the Iranian pipeline in Iraq. That goes to the refinery in Iran? Makes sense to me. After all its expensive to ship heavy crude.

After all it was clear to us WHY we invaded. It's nice to have friends along for the ride and oohhhhhh grrrrr those nasty Iranians we have so much trouble with. WHY FUCK DORIS ITS THAT IRAN AND RUSSIA CHINA AXIS AFTER US AGAIN. Iraqi's might just be thinking with friends like this who needs enemies

Hey nuclear garbage adds even more stablity. So the oil concerns can operate without worrying about rebellion. Covers their assets. Keeps the Iraqi people in line.

ArtimusMaxtor says

China drilling oil in Iraq
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124293064819744203.html

Russia drilling oil in Iraq
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Energy-Resources/2011/10/26/Russias-Lukoil-starts-drilling-in-Iraq/UPI-35841319628832/

Iran building or to build oil refinery in Iraq

what does your post have to do with the main title of this thread?

http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/2010/10/29/iranian-company-to-build-oil-refinery-in-babil/

Yep anyway. Thats the bad part. America has to take note of one thing through all of this. Russia and China. BACKED sold arms to all of your so called opposed nations. So how do you feel about having to let in the Chinese and Russians and Iranians being let in to drill and build refineries. You dudes need to wise up just a little. It's a fun game I guess. Except I see you coming up short in a lot of ways though.

They played their part. Except for one thing. They mostly aren't in debt not yet anyway. Nor do the financiers shove them into every war and invasion they can find to put them in where they want to pig out on someones resources. Russia and China have it dicked in this game. It appears to me. You don't

America is in debt up to its neck and beyond. All of your citizens are to. America is the financiers number one BLUNT INSTRUMENT in the world for invading and taking resources. WHY? BECAUSE YOUR IN DEBT REALLY and IN A REALLY BAD WAY. Hey borrower is the slave to the lender. It's a Christian nation. At least a lot of your leaders say so. So in debt. That it makes you wonder where your paychecks come from even.

You look at it like hey survival. Doesn't everyone do it? They don't, you do. Deal is the bastards arm you to the teeth. Have you in debt with PAPER no less. Thats the ridiculous part of all of this. Thing is all those buddies the ones in these deals just might be laughing at you. Because your the ones that have to get shot up in these deals. Because you owe so much.

Your resources EVERYTHING you have in this country has no trade value. What says that LEGAL TENDER. The only authorized legal for trade item in the United States. Legal tender says your resources are worth nothing. Unless legal tender says so.

Contracts, Futures all traded with legal tender. They too dictate the value of your resources. SEE THEY SET VALUE, YOU DON'T. GET ROBBED WHY DON'T YOU. You look at it and you may not understand. They can set the price of anything. Not only that they can print and conduit this money and even keep fucking Macy's open which is a miricle in itself. Bloomingdales. Get real who the fuck goes there. Now since you acknowledge your debt (Which you shouldn't its nothing but a swindel) Simply write laws that forbid usury.

See Moses didn't say you have to participate in usury if your a gentile. Ask any of the 17 Banks in Israel. They could fax you something Im sure.

Don't continue to let Legal Tender devalue all your resources to zero. Legal tender say's hey I'm worth something all your resources aren't because they have no trade value. Only Legal tender does. That alone should scare the shit out of you. Not to mention that the only LEGAL means of trade is under the control of the Federal Reserve WHICH is a private corporation.

To protest government debt-mongering and the resulting enslavement of the 99% to employers and to banks, not to mention the giant Fannie/Freddie/FHA hole the federal budget, let us declare a general house buyer strike.

Ha HA.... seriously Pat you really need to go after the Realtors to make a difference. They inflate the price forcing many to take on higher debt.

"Buy now or be priced out forever"...

"Home values(price) always go up"..

"Foreign buyers are flocking in with cash"..

"Buy now! Etc Etc Etc ....

They done it before, they are doing it today, they WILL BE doing it down the road of time.

thomas.wong1986 says

oreign buyers are flocking in with cash

No they're not, not everywhere at least. Just in The Fortress.

B.A.C.A.H. says

No they're not, not everywhere at least. Just in The Fortress

be sure to lock the gates from the outside when they are all in.