patrick.net

MsAnnaNOLA says

There is no heirarchy telling you who to hate or telling you you are going to hell if you don't follow their rules.

Perhaps no one has told you about the caste system.

I never got how, if I killed somebody or stole some stuff, how Jesus could take the responsibility off my shoulders. I still did it.

MsAnnaNOLA says

There is a different god for everything.

There isn't a god for Premature Ejaculation, but I hear he's coming soon.

(apologies to Mel Brooks).

The Masonic Order was great before it was pussified by those Anti-Mason bastards. It was blood in, blood out, back in the day bitches.

Before that, the Church of England. Before that, the Roman Pantheon of Gods.

Men of stature and merit now worship in a sect so secret, even I cannot divulge the name. You cannot join our fraternal order without being asked.

Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq says

Before that, the Church of England. Before that, the Roman Pantheon of Gods.

Hmmm, you're skipping more than 1,000 years between Church of England and Roman Pantheon.

Some embarrassing secret in there?

Helloeeze says

Christianity -- FORGIVENESS, Baby!!!!!

Heck I'll forgive you too - for a price...

Indulgences anyone?

Patrick,

This was a bad idea. "Give ceasar what is caesar's and God what is God's". Your forums are clearly within the ceasar's world.

Why do you say this was a bad idea? I don't see it.

It is wrong to debate the merits of different religions?

leoj707 says

Perhaps no one has told you about the caste system.

Caste system is not necessarily codified in Hinduism. Caste system is a societal custom not a requirement of Hinduism. Caste system is now outlawed in India, though some people particularly in rural areas still practice it.

Oh another cool fact, there are Athiest Hindus. So basically you can make what you want. The athiest Hindus live by the philosophy of life but do not believe in god.

thunderlips11 says

There isn't a god for Premature Ejaculation, but I hear he's coming soon.

How about Skanda, son of Shiva who is god of war and virility? I am just saying...

MsAnnaNOLA says

Caste system is now outlawed in India, though some people particularly in rural areas still practice it.

Ah, ha, right... have you been to India? Have you had much exposure to actual practicing hindus?

Yes, the caste system is "outlawed" and perhaps it is "better" than 50 years ago, but every Indian is still very aware of the caste every other Indian they come into contact with -- and they act accordingly.

Have you ever seen how much caste plays a roll in arranged marriages?

You ever want to really piss off a hindu (note: this only works if you were born a non-hindu)? Tell them that you are a hindu convert, and your caste is brahman.

MsAnnaNOLA says

Caste system is not necessarily codified in Hinduism.

Correct. the operative phrase here is "not necessarily". In religious text, depending on how you want to interpret them, an argument can be made either way.

MsAnnaNOLA says

Caste system is a societal custom not a requirement of Hinduism.

No, it is not necessarily a "requirement", I am sure there is a minority of hindu sects that reject it (probably not attended by any brahmans), but as a whole hinduism has chosen to define the Varna system seen in hindu text as the caste system we see today.

But do you get to worship fire?

Fire worship has a lot going for it. Think of all the support already built into our society to ease the transition to fire worship. Every city and town in the United States has a Fire department, many cities have several. If we converted to fire worship, we have a network of places of worship fire already installed. A leadership structure is also already in place, with Fireman (also called Fire fighter), Crew manager, Watch Manager, Station manger, Group Manger, Area manager, Assistant brigade Manager, Deputy Brigade Manger and the high priest the Brigade Manager. There's also Fire Marshall's, they often carry carry a weapon and wear a badge to enforce the faith. Show me another religion with such a support infrastructure already in place.

MsAnnaNOLA says

I vote for Hindusim. There are so many cool gods. There is a different god for everything. You can choose the god for what you are into this week. There is no heirarchy telling you what to do and asking you for money....

I saw yet another remake of Clash of the Titan's on HBO the other night and it got me to thinking. The Greek Gods would make for a great miniseries. With all the Gods infighting and intrigue it would make for a lot of material for a show, hell maybe even a miniseries. (After looking up Greek mythological figures, the there be enough material for 20 seasons of a series) Hell just introducing the major gods at one a week would give you 14 weeks of material. Then there's all the legends they could bring to life, monsters, epic tales, minor gods, maybe even some screen time for those puny morals as well.

TechGromit says

I saw yet another remake of Clash of the Titan's on HBO the other night and it got me to thinking. The Greek Gods would make for a great miniseries. With all the Gods infighting and intrigue it would make for a lot of material for a show, hell maybe even a miniseries. (After looking up Greek mythological figures, the there be enough material for 20 seasons of a series) Hell just introducing the major gods at one a week would give you 14 weeks of material. Then there's all the legends they could bring to life, monsters, epic tales, minor gods, maybe even some screen time for those puny morals as well.

Why stop there? After you introduce the gods and other myths, you've got the Homeric epics and the Aeneid. That might be at least two years worth of material right there. Who needs Harry Potter (even though it can be quite entertaining) when you've got the classics? There have been some updated translations in the recent past that make these tales actually accessible to us mortals ;)

And for you born agains, it isn't un-Christian to read (and actually enjoy) pre-Christian history.

I'm changing my vote. No offense to the Setians.

I think that I'd be happier as a Pastafarian.

All Hail the Mighty Flying Spaghetti Monster!

TechGromit says

...with Fireman (also called Fire fighter), Crew manager, Watch Manager, Station manger, Group Manger, Area manager, Assistant brigade Manager, Deputy Brigade Manger and the high priest the Brigade Manager.

This is excellent. A religion/ workfare program. And, unlike Amway, nonbelievers will contribute even more than the chosen!

You could be the founder of that religion!

Could you please include cellphone excutives and corporate lobbyists?

And all of Microsoft.
And drug and insurance company executives.
And Fox News, Burson-Marsteller, and the Koch brothers.
Just to start.

Do we need a religion? Are we so hard-wired to believe in the divine that we have to look up to something other than our predecessors?
Religion is an instrument of control; we don't need any more of that.

theLandlord says

I follow the golden rule, just treat others how you want to be treated.

I hope you're not a sadist or a masochist!

My god is Mammon. I think that's essentially the dominant deity in the US now anyway.

Sorry sports fans, Judaism is the best religion. 13 million Jews out of out of a world population of 7 billion produced 10% of us college faculty, and 178 Nobel Prize winners. Of course, a lot of these are not religiously observant...maybe that's another good thing about Jews is that so many of them aren't really believers :-)

Just my $.02

Honestly, I'm surprised at the sheer number of people that still believe in any of the popular religions. I mean, really.. come on.

Religion who's teaching is based in the Holy Scripture is the true religion: check this out:
http://www.truthcaster.com/

This link will lead you to true religion:
http://theoldpath.tv/
"seek and you will find;" Mat 7:7

monkframe says

Do we need a religion? Are we so hard-wired to believe in the divine that we have to look up to something other than our predecessors?
Religion is an instrument of control; we don't need any more of that.

Yes, we do need religion - look at the bad things happen when we don't have it; for examples look to Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, etc.
Civil Society needs an external common moral reference to be sustained.

chemechie says

monkframe says

Do we need a religion? Are we so hard-wired to believe in the divine that we have to look up to something other than our predecessors?
Religion is an instrument of control; we don't need any more of that.

Yes, we do need religion - look at the bad things happen when we don't have it; for examples look to Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, etc.
Civil Society needs an external common moral reference to be sustained.

Yes, thats the same argument Adolf Hitler (lifelong Roman Catholic, at least publicly) made:
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith."
Nazi-Vatican Accord, 1933

i worship xenu! he rules all.

next meeting at his spaceship, 3 stops past jupiter.

I'd prefer a religion who's central claims are actually true, rather than just wishful thinking or speculation about "mere possibility." To me, it's harmful to believe something that simply isn't true.

Is there any way to verify the claims of the various religions? Or are they all just what philosophers call "technically meaningless" i.e. "not even wrong"?

wthrfrk80 says

I'd prefer a religion who's central claims are actually true, rather than just wishful thinking or speculation about "mere possibility." To me, it's harmful to believe something that simply isn't true.

Is there any way to verify the claims of the various religions? Or are they all just what philosophers call "technically meaningless" i.e. "not even wrong"?

Good point. Here is some footage which might help:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152270/abandon-all-hope

Budhism is it.Budhists don't make war and live to improve the richness of thier spirit .all other religions spawn war pigs and control freaks.Americans are christian and eat babies for breakfast.Problem is they don't even grasp the contradiction so I say that there is something about christianity that drives people insane and out of touch with the boundries of good and evil.Just ask the 3 million dead vietnamese peasants.100,000 guatemalans,60.000 el salvadorans,30.000 Chileans,30.000 Nicarauguans.1.3 million Iraqis.etc...the most civilised countries have the least practicing religious populations and the best access to higher education so runner up to Budhism would be non religious agnostics or athiests perhaps.much richer in spirit.Empty your cup and I will fill it up.humble yourself before others to enrich your spirit.Charity .compasion .empathy etc...simple truths that organised religion can't get a handle on.I read the bible three times before I was 15 and I liked it but the same Knowledge is abundant in literature poetry and Philosophy in prechristian cultures.Maybe I should start a new religion.I could sure make one more interesting.

It is wrong to debate the merits of different religions?

Nothing wrong with it. It's just pointless like debating which Teletubby would make the best president.

The world would be better off with no religion, mysticism/spirituality, superstition, etc. Morality and social justice are sufficiently complex subject matters that there is no point in making them even more difficult by introducing random nonsense into the equations.

toppcat says

I should start a new religion.

We all want to make a new religion just for the tax benefits. Unfortunately, the government only allows for old religions. The only way to start a new one is to spend shitloads of money on lawyers like Scientology has. But then you need to fleece the stupid to support your religion's expenses.

How about the Shakers. The only problem with them however is their strict adhearance to celibacy, for which I think they died out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers

To call this a debate is silly. Just a bunch of smug fools spouting off nonsense.

ChristianGuy says

To call this a debate is silly. Just a bunch of smug fools spouting off nonsense.

Ya think? Were you expecting something else from a discussion on religion?

bdrasin says

Good point. Here is some footage which might help:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152270/abandon-all-hope

Hilarious. But didn't the South Park guys also create an episode called "All About the Mormons?" that mocked Mormonism? "Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb..."

One of my favorite Carlin quotes:

there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more.

try this ... draw a cartoon of the key figures of each religion that was mentioned ... Then, the ones that don't show up to chop off your head should get some extra credit, right? Might be helpful for picking a winner.

One of my favorite Carlin quotes:
there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more.

Carlin's a funny guy. And yes, most organized religion is corrupt to the core. Some "Christian" megachurches shamelessly use corporate language like "customers" and "product" when describing their "operations." The Catholic church at one time actually sold forgiveness of sins for money. Ironic, since Jesus himself drove out the money changers from the Temple in his day.

Jesus also believed he was God (or, at the very least, the God of the Jews) and had the right to judge people and send some away for eternal punishment. That's why he was crucified...the charge was blasphemy, a capital offence in Judaism at the time.

Regardless of whether or not we believe Jesus' staggering claims, we are left with an unsettling question:
Why would a loving God mete out eternal punishment?

It sounds absurd at first glance. But under further examination, we realize that a loving God must punish evil. If God rewards both good and evil, than how can we call God loving? Even the secular world realizes the need to punish wrongdoing. God is love AND justice. Or at least that's the Christian position.

wthrfrk80 says

bdrasin says

Good point. Here is some footage which might help:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/152270/abandon-all-hope

Hilarious. But didn't the South Park guys also create an episode called "All About the Mormons?" that mocked Mormonism? "Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb..."

The South Park guys (aka Matt Stone and Trey Parker) have produced enough Mormon material to fill a couple of South Park episodes and a Broadway musical as well. Basically, they think Mormons are great people with good values and strong, loving families who happen to believe some really crazy things.

bdrasin says

Basically, they think Mormons are great people with good values and strong, loving families who happen to believe some really crazy things.

Maybe that's just the human condition. In order to have any hope or any values beyond "do whatever you can get away with", one has to believe some crazy things.

Otherwise, I suppose, life is just a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and the fury, signifying nothing.

Wasn't it Kurt Vonnegut, a humanist, who once said cigarettes were a "classy way to commit suicide"? I guess he didn't really believe that crazy idea that humans are basically good.

wthrfrk80 says

Why would a loving God mete out eternal punishment?

Another virtue of Zoroastrianism is that hell is temporary. You work off your debt, and you're done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism#Renovation_and_judgment