patrick.net

Renters are happier than homeowners was one sentence in that article, and I don't buy that for a second. Of course, having a big beautiful, echoing home with no friends or family would be miserable.

How about this: Have a home, have money to give others, have money to pay for experiences, and have a million dollars? How about that? That is very doable with prudent living and a decent job and a modest home.

The things you own end up owning you, no doubt about that.

If those things you bought are now paid off, that can be a lot of freedom, except for the damn taxes.

MsBennet says

If those things you bought are now paid off, that can be a lot of freedom, except for the damn taxes.

Maybe if you truly feel inner peace by owning them, often though people have to show off those things to others to get joy out of them. And then often those pesky others either don't realize how great those things are or are aloof about those things in general, so the people owning them have to tell everybody and post all day in forums about how great their things are.. Yes, and then there are also taxes ;)

mell says

MsBennet says

If those things you bought are now paid off, that can be a lot of freedom, except for the damn taxes.

Maybe if you truly feel inner peace by owning them, often though people have to show off those things to others to get joy out of them. And then often those pesky others either don't realize how great those things are or are aloof about those things in general, so the people owning them have to tell everybody and post all day in forums about how great their things are.. Yes, and then there are also taxes ;)

I am not sure what you are talking about, but if that is a subtle dig, I don't claim it. You haven't seem my modest house. Not xac-ly a palace. But it does have a nice flat screen tv, which my husband enjoys immensely, and he is not aloof to it. He is always commenting how much he loves it.

MsBennet says

How about this: Have a home, have money to give others, have money to pay for experiences, and have a million dollars? How about that? That is very doable with prudent living and a decent job and a modest home.

Yes, the above is great, however, I don't see that feasible in these overpriced suburbs around let's say Boston, NYC, etc. And believe me, a lot of folks around there have the 'Keeping Up w/ the Jones' mentality. It doesn't make for great neighbors or acquaintances.

However, 1+ hour away, in central or western MA, all of that is doable. I own my house 1.5 hours from Boston and now, I own it straight out, as the mortgage is paid off. I have no complaints at all about life. My neighbors are great and I have a lot of fun with ppl in my neighboring communities.

MsBennet says

I am not sure what you are talking about, but if that is a subtle dig, I don't claim it. You haven't seem my modest house. Not xac-ly a palace. But it does have a nice flat screen tv, which my husband enjoys immensely, and he is not aloof to it. He is always commenting how much he loves it.

Sorry, it wasn't directed at you, just commenting in general.

I can offer an apples to apples comparison, as I rented the house I now own for a couple years before purchasing it. Or maybe I can't, because I don't think I ever stopped and guaged my static happiness, relative to living here as a renter vs a mortgage debtor.

As a renter, the only maintenance I ever happened upon, was dropping a dead oak tree out back, because it was dangerous, and the "landlord" deal was "as-is". I was welcomed to do any improvements, but they made it clear that they weren't interested in any betterment of the place. Life was fun, we always had a good time.

Since purchasing, I've
-upgraded electric from the old fuse box
-sand and refinished the floors
-new over the stove microwave
-built a sunroom on the deck
- painted everything, at least once
- installed french doors from dining room on to deck
- built a half bath and mudroom in the basement
- new trim, ceiling fans, and some light fixtures
- installed bathroom fan
- installed 3 storm doors
- built partition from kitchen to living room

Currently in the works
- complete remodel of the bathroom
- ancient heating and cooling system needs replaced (6k)

I can't say any of these maintenance and upgrades, made me happier, persay. I do enjoy landscaping and gardening, so the backyard orchard, raised bed gardens, and countless landscaping do bring me joy. At times I think, when others compliment the house and say what a great deal I got (because the place is "worth so much more"), that renting still at my 2007 rent, would be easier/better. OTOH, having the acreage allowed me to adopt my dog, and he definitely makes me happy

What a Marxist load of Horse Hockey this whole thread turned out to be.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Need a sniper nest someplace high, protected and unobstructed.

I was no happier with reinforced footings for 88mm Howitzers on the perimeter than I now am with a simple, humble blind and a 50mm Barrett.

As Marx, whose teachings I follow in all things, says: the difference in value in exchange has little correlation to use-value.

(The Howitzer worked a lot better on police cruisers and schoolbuses at 3500 yards, though, but such targets were so far off my property that the value as fertilizer was nil.)

recently redone a bathroom from total scratch and went all out, imported tiles and vanity, super modern design (which I love) and I have to say - it makes me very happy every time I use it, even just walking by I find myself opening the door and admiring the design :) A sense of pride sets in when friends come over and complement it. Silly but true.

Her lovers queued up in the hallway, I heard them scratching at the door, I tried to tell her About Marx and Engels, God and Angels, I don't really know what for.
But she looked good in ribbons.

CaptainShuddup says

What a Marxist load of Horse Hockey this whole thread turned out to be.

The article was a good read. It wasn't just about housing making you happier. It was about how experiences and giving may make you happier than accumulating things for yourself. I liked the point that experiences may matter because they bring you closer to other people. I like those messages.

We got a few good jokes from AF, Mell and Hydro Carbon. What more are you looking for?

SubOink says

recently redone a bathroom from total scratch and went all out, imported tiles and vanity, super modern design (which I love) and I have to say - it makes me very happy every time I use it, even just walking by I find myself opening the door and admiring the design :) A sense of pride sets in when friends come over and complement it. Silly but t

I have this feeling about improvements I made in our *apartment*. I spent about 7k two years ago this month. I installed hardwood floors, some cabinets, a ceiling fan, new office furniture, added rugs and mirrors, and painted. It really helped make the most of a small space. I feel some pride in how efficiently we use the space now and how nice it looks. Those changes make me happy in a way that I think is similar to your bathroom. There are some good design ideas in the things we did.

Some people thought I was insane to spend the money on someone else's property when that money could have gone towards a downpayment. It has been totally worth it. Spread out over 3 years it is not much. The cost of renting a nicer place would have been more like 800 a month more. I feel good about all of it.

I'd like more room 2000 square feet versus 700 feet and a garage would be nice.

SubOink says

imported tiles

All the way from Exotic China!

JodyChunder says

SubOink says

imported tiles

All the way from Exotic China!

They will even throw in some toxic drywall for free!

JodyChunder says

SubOink says

imported tiles

All the way from Exotic China!

Chinese cheap knockoff tile is more of a victorville thing :) Go for it!

I'll stick to Italy when it comes to design and tiles.

SubOink says

I'll stick to Italy when it comes to design and tiles.

Okay, fancy dan...Made in Italy by Chinese!

You have several beautiful tile makers right here in California. Personally, I think tile's a little pedestrian. My entire house is comprised of hide, bone, stone and steel. The walls of my master bath are done up in black patent leather. That kinda deal'll set you back some...

JodyChunder says

SubOink says

I'll stick to Italy when it comes to design and tiles.

Okay, fancy dan...Made in Italy by Chinese!

You have several beautiful tile makers right here in California. Personally, I think tile's a little pedestrian. My entire house is comprised of hide, bone, stone and steel. The walls of my master bath are done up in black patent leather. That kinda deal'll set you back some...

LOL. I can almost see it...

...one can easily tell the difference between the chinese crap and premium grade porcelain tile. CA does have some good tile makers but the italians just gots the style! Always did, always will.

Here are a few links for you to peruse:

http://www.agapedesign.it/bathrooms

http://www.catalano.it/it/prodotti/premium/

http://www.nstile.com/neostile-tile.html

Now, thats style! :) InMHO - But lets not argue over taste...you keep your leopard carpets. They fit the neighborhood :) (just joking around)

magman says

buy nothing new, walk away,strategic poverty,get off the debt carosel, triple up housing, walk don t drive

I like it, especially the part about buying nothing new. I hate debt, too.

Im much happier not paying someone else's mortgage.

toothfairy says

Im much happier not paying someone else's mortgage.

Would you be happier if "someone elses mortgage payment" is 1/2 what your non-refundable costs would be if you bought that same house now?

New Renter says

toothfairy says

Im much happier not paying someone else's mortgage.

Would you be happier if "someone elses mortgage payment" is 1/2 what your non-refundable costs would be if you bought that same house now?

No I wouldn't be. That's called paying for a lifestyle you can't afford.

toothfairy says

New Renter says

toothfairy says

Im much happier not paying someone else's mortgage.

Would you be happier if "someone elses mortgage payment" is 1/2 what your non-refundable costs would be if you bought that same house now?

No I wouldn't be. That's called paying for a lifestyle you can't afford.

Right. So you are not so much "happier not paying someone else's mortgage" than you are happier paying less for comparable housing.

All I know is that I dont like to rent. I dont like shuffling around my belongings. I have stuff that'll be in the same place for 30 years if i want.

Thats without even considering the paying somebody elses mortgage part.

Actually owning is so worth it to me that I would be willing to pay double what it would cost to rent each month as long as I have a guarantee that at some point the amount I owe goes to zero.

toothfairy says

as long as I have a guarantee that at some point the amount I owe goes to zero.

But isn't that the point? In many of the nicer suburbs around Boston [ towns with the 'good' brand name school systems and low crime ], that's $600K to $800K, whereas in central or western MA, it's $200K to $300K. A person could easily pay back the latter mortgage, even if he's forced to temporarily move around for contract work, in other parts of the country. In a 'name' suburbs, one layoff could lead to foreclosure.

toothfairy says

All I know is that I dont like to rent. I dont like shuffling around my belongings. I have stuff that'll be in the same place for 30 years if i want.

Thats without even considering the paying somebody elses mortgage part.

Actually owning is so worth it to me that I would be willing to pay double what it would cost to rent each month as long as I have a guarantee that at some point the amount I owe goes to zero.

It will never go to zero. You will always have property taxes, insurance and maintenance.

New Renter says

It will never go to zero. You will always have property taxes, insurance and maintenance.

That part is not so bad, once you're out of bubbleland-ed suburbs of brand name chic cities.

In a way, it's good to own, if one's nearing retirement. The problem is that given the way things are in areas like greater Boston, NYC, SF, etc, those outside of high paying fields/tracks will never see that day.

toothfairy says

All I know is that I dont like to rent. I dont like shuffling around my belongings. I have stuff that'll be in the same place for 30 years if i want.

The only reason people wouldn't stay in a rental 30 years is their own choice. It's just not acceptable in the U.S. so people don't do it thinking that a rental is just a stepping stone lifting them up to their eventual ownership dreamy heaven.

It would be interesting to know how many people who own houses shift their belongings because of washing machine floods, improvements, fires, and just plain moves. Several have written at patrick.net that the average time in a house is only 7.5 years.

I get what you're saying, though, you're saying you personally think of owning as having the potential to deliver stable, unshuffled belongings for 30 years. Maybe you could rent with the same stability if it weren't for your thoughts?

When the Democratic Supermajority in California votes to override proposition 13 even renters will be paying more taxes.

inflection point says

When the Democratic Supermajority in California votes to override proposition 13 even renters will be paying more taxes.

Not likely.