patrick.net

MrMaddog says

Think about it. If a white person is murdered by say a black person in a bad situation, we don't hear about people all across the country protesting for those murdered if they were white. Why is that?

If a white person was murdered by a black person, and everyone knew who that murderer was, and that person wasn't even charged ?

a) I don't believe that's ever happened

b) If it did, people would make assumptions that are different than the assumptions here. Here (with Martin/Zimmerman) the assumptions are that either its massive incompetence, or systemic racism. Whereas if what you said (reversed situation) happened without the known shooter being charged, we would just assume extreme incompetence.

getting back to Patrick. I think you have to include the specific City's ethnic makeup first. So pick a city, look at the ethnic numbers, then start pulling the murder data.
As someone who used to live "in" chicago for 50 years,we might change those population numbers. i dont live there now, and I would give you the opportunity to guess why. but I'll save you the time...
"half of the town is bad news"... IMO...

Unbelievably, Patrick wrote:

"Most murders are within the same race, but even then blacks have a much higher rate of murdering each other than whites do."

My comment:

This sentence can be translated to:

"Most murders are within the same income level, but even then poor people have a much higher rate of murdering each other than rich people do."

Please don't spew this racist nonsense.

it is racist to say blacks = low income, aint it? Or, did you mean that blacks make up >12% of the low income population, in the EXACT same way they make up >12% of the drop out population, teen mom population, unwed births population, and murderer population? If that is what you meant, then that was not racist. But, if you just equated black with low income, that is racist. I think.

Bap33 says

if you just equated black with low income, that is racist. I think.

He (or she) was noting that it's low income blacks and more generally low income demographics in general where crime including murder happen much more. So making a generalization about murder among blacks actually implies something that is not true.

That is (just for you Bap), one might falsely infer that even among middle class (and above), African Americans are more likely to commit murder or be murdered. The latter could be true(being murdered), but if so probably because of communities that include lower income and gangs etc.

Bap33 says

it is racist to say blacks = low income

Also just to help you with your logic a bit more, if hc thought that black = low income, then he (or she) wouldn't have suggested that using one term in this context was racist, and that using the other was not.

HC's point was actually closer to: black does not = low income.

I think Chris Rock had it right: most of the people on welfare are "broke-ass white people." "Broke-ass, living in a trailer-home, eating mayonaise sandwiches, f***ing their sister, and listening to John Cougar Mellencamp records."

Hilarious.

Bap33 says

it is racist to say blacks = low income, aint it? Or, did you mean that blacks make up >12% of the low income population, in the EXACT same way they make up >12% of the drop out population, teen mom population, unwed births population, and murderer population? If that is what you meant, then that was not racist. But, if you just equated black with low income, that is racist. I think.

It is not racist to say black people are poorer than white people. Not in the least. It is a fact. And when you do the research, to find out why this is, it's because black Americans were and still are the most oppressed members of our society. An oppressed people = a poor people, regardless of skin color. And poverty leads to ignorance, which then leads to violence. I'm baffled by how many (not all) white folks don't get this basic fact. Who are the real ignorant one's in the end?

There's no question blacks were the most oppressed in America, historically.

Are they still actively oppressed? Or is a lot of the poverty just "inertia"?

I really don't know, I'm just an average "white guy."

Here's another way to look at it:

Fact: Red cars are more likely to get pulled over by cops

Fact: A red colored car will cost you more money in speeding tickets

Therefore, we can all agree that the color red is costlier than the color blue?

If you paint your house red, will you be more likely to get pulled over by a cop? And same thing if you wear red pajamas? Red is bad, red is bad!

wthrfrk80 says

There's no question blacks were the most oppressed in America, historically.

Are they still actively oppressed? Or is a lot of the poverty just "inertia"?

I really don't know, I'm just an average "white guy."

Funny question: "Are they still actively oppressed?" You mean it's okay to oppress them passively? Like the way a white HR hiring clerk might disregard applications from black people behind closed doors? They are most certainly still oppressed, though not as much as before.

housingcasino4865 says

Like the way a white HR hiring clerk might disregard applications from black people behind closed doors?

If they do that, shame on them.

But do they, in fact, do this? Is there evidence for it? Anything is possible, but the courts don't argue cases based on "mere possibility."

wthrfrk80 says

housingcasino4865 says

Like the way a white HR hiring clerk might disregard applications from black people behind closed doors?

If they do that, shame on them.

But do they, in fact, do this? Is there evidence for it? Anything is possible, but the courts don't argue cases based on "mere possibility."

Of course they do. I don't like saying this, but have you ever socialized with people in and outside of your local community or work? See this:

http://career-advice.monster.com/in-the-office/workplace-issues/do-black-names-matter/article.aspx

"In the movie Coach Carter, a pregnant teenage African American girl is asked what she plans to name her baby. "Loquisha," she says. Her friend replies, "Well, she might as well have the name 'Food Stamps.'"

The point is clear: Loquisha is a "black" name, and names affect destiny. That premise gained scientific backing with "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination," an MIT-University of Chicago study conducted in 2001 and 2002 and published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) in 2003. Researchers sent 5,000 fictitious resumes for sales, clerical and customer service positions in Chicago and Boston. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for initial interviews than those with African American-sounding ones. The racial gap was uniform across occupation, industry and employer size."

And keep in mind, the study was done in Boston and Chicago. Both are liberal. Now just imagine what it must be like in Conservative cities.

housingcasino4865 says

That premise gained scientific backing with "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination," an MIT-University of Chicago study conducted in 2001 and 2002 and published by the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) in 2003. Researchers sent 5,000 fictitious resumes for sales, clerical and customer service positions in Chicago and Boston. Applicants with white-sounding names were 50 percent more likely to be called for initial interviews than those with African American-sounding ones. The racial gap was uniform across occupation, industry and employer size."

Wow that sucks. I thought that kind of thing was relegated to the past.

I'm in engineering where there are just as many Indians and Asians as "white" people. It's true that there aren't many "blacks" where I work, though. There weren't too many black folks majoring in Engineering either, at least where I went to school (Erie, PA). Sad.

housingcasino4865 says

Here's another way to look at it:
Fact: Red cars are more likely to get pulled over by cops
Fact: A red colored car will cost you more money in speeding tickets
Therefore, we can all agree that the color red is costlier than the color blue?
If you paint your house red, will you be more likely to get pulled over by a cop? And same thing if you wear red pajamas? Red is bad, red is bad!

Maybe that's the problem.

Red = Danger (that's why stop signs are red and red means stop)

Black = Evil (the Black Plague, Black Magic, The Dark Side, Darth Vader's costume is black, etc)

wthrfrk80 says

Wow that sucks. I thought that kind of thing was relegated to the past.

I'm in engineering where there are just as many Indians and Asians as "white" people. It's true that there aren't many "blacks" where I work, though. There weren't too many black folks majoring in Engineering either, at least where I went to school (Erie, PA). Sad.

Blacks aren't into science or engineering because they're too busy being gangsta's thanks to social programming (aka, the media). Why be an engineer? That's not "coo," be a gang banger instead. If you need food or shelter, that's what section 8 and food stamps are for. Funny, it's the liberals who are oppressing blacks the most nowadays. Hollywood and the general media, which are both liberal do nothing but dish out gangsta videos/music and movies, and stupid reality shows with one pregnant black girl and five possible fathers. And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

wthrfrk80 says

Red = Danger (that's why stop signs are red and red means stop)

Black = Evil (the Black Plague, Black Magic, The Dark Side, Darth Vader's costume is black, etc)

Color connotations/associations can also be positive:

Red: energy, excitement, passion, eroticism, desire, lover, courage, joy, vigor, willpower, etc.

Black: elegance, authority, formality, modernity, sophistication, wealth, style, etc.

housingcasino4865 says

Blacks aren't into science or engineering because they're too busy being gangsta's thanks to social programming (aka, the media). Why be an engineer? That's not "coo," be a gang banger instead.

It's happening to white kids too. Example: Eminem and Insane Clown Posse.

leoj707 says

Color connotations/associations can also be positive:

True.

So what explains the bias against blacks then?

wthrfrk80 says

So what explains the bias against blacks then?

The simple explanation would be tribalism, but I don't think that it is that simple. There have probably been many volumes of information trying to accurately answer that question.

housingcasino4865 says

And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

Look up, "How unwanted pregnancies hold you down and ruin your dreams".

Also, look up how the biggest proponents of family planning were once Republicans, including the Bush family's support of Planned Parenthood.

wthrfrk80 says

There's no question blacks were the most oppressed in America, historically.

Are they still actively oppressed? Or is a lot of the poverty just "inertia"?

I really don't know, I'm just an average "white guy."

The minds of the people have not caught up with the times. Many still believe in the methods of the 60s revolution, when in fact, all they need to do is seek opportunities. During the 60s the people turned their backs on white America as had been done to them for 400 years. what you describe is a defensive mechanism....unfortunately, all youth are now following this same approach. IE Hip Hop Thug Nation Being white or black has nothing to do with it...its all about the impoverished thoughts that come with being poor and not knowing opportunity is right around the corner.

wthrfrk80 says

housingcasino4865 says

Blacks aren't into science or engineering because they're too busy being gangsta's thanks to social programming (aka, the media). Why be an engineer? That's not "coo," be a gang banger instead.

It's happening to white kids too. Example: Eminem and Insane Clown Posse.

You are both right, color is not a factor here though. Social and economic status are the culprit....along with piss poor parenting. I wouldnt want my daughter associating with EMINEM, KID ROCK, WILLIE NELSON, TED NUGENT or SNOOP DOGG. They are all miscrients, unfit for a society based on decency.

housingcasino4865 says

Hollywood and the general media, which are both liberal do nothing but dish out gangsta videos/music and movies, and stupid reality shows with one pregnant black girl and five possible fathers. And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

Your right to an extent, as this not only affects blacks but now affects everyone whom have adopted ANY culture of stupidity that I listed below.

My list of miscrients I dont want my daughter around:

1. Biker Gang
2. Street Gang
3. Rock N Roll
4. Hip Hop
5. Welfare
6. Trailer Park
7. Ghetto
8. Tattoo Fiends
9. Racists
10. Drug Abusers
11. Thugs of all kinds (KKK, Black Panthers, Prison Inmates)

Yes, Hollywood and Liberal policies enable stupidity by first projecting an image and then supporting the rights of those same miscrients who impede upon the rights of other citizens. We need stronger incentives for those who assume the lifestyle of any of the above cultures I mentioned to take responsibility for their lives. These cultures generally are not concerned with maintaining dignity but moreso their personal freedoms to roam the earth and impart their form of stupidity on everyone else.

CL says

housingcasino4865 says

And the liberal politicians encourage dependency and are more genocidal than the KKK ever was: look up "family planning."

Look up, "How unwanted pregnancies hold you down and ruin your dreams".

Also, look up how the biggest proponents of family planning were once Republicans, including the Bush family's support of Planned Parenthood.

I would also reccomend everyone look up EUGENICS and GENOCIDE on youtube. Planned parenthood was once used as a plot to rid society of Africans and native persons all over the world. Now, it rids society of unwanted babies that have a higher chance of growing up to be a miscrient due to the lack of love in their life. Neither is right.

The KKK lynched 500,000 conscious blacks during the early 1900s shredding any dignity that was left, not sure if abortion had the same effect on the mentality of my people....tit truly goes deeper than can be discussed on a computer.

@Clarence: According to contemporary scholarly research, your statistics are incorrect, sir.

It has been established that blacks have killed more blacks than the KKK ever did.
Q: How many individuals did the KKK lynch since the end of the Civil War?
A: from 1884 to 1900. The number of persons lynched in the United States during that period was 2,516. Of these about 66% were blacks, and (interestingly) 33% were whites [see R. Baker, American Magazine, "Following the Color Line," (1908)].
Tuskegee Institute, [now Tuskegee University], is recognized as the official expert credited with accurately documenting lynchings from 1882 through 1968. During that period they report that there were 3,446 lynchings of blacks and 1,297 lynchings of whites.
Before 1882, there were about 2,100 lynchings by KKK members. Assuming all those killed were blacks, we arrive at a maximum number: less than 5,600 blacks were killed by the KKK since its founding.
Indeed, "Lynching Century" states: "From 1865 to 1965 more than 6,000 blacks died in racial violence in the United States." [That is, 6,000 blacks killed by all sources, not by KKK members]. Intra-racial [not inter-racial], being the most prevalent homicide causality.
Thank you for the discussion. Julianna

Post Script: Two of my great great uncles miraculously survived Andersonville Prison Camp.

Clarence 13X says

My list of miscrients I dont want my daughter around:

1. Biker Gang
2. Street Gang
3. Rock N Roll
4. Hip Hop
5. Welfare
6. Trailer Park
7. Ghetto
8. Tattoo Fiends
9. Racists
10. Drug Abusers
11. Thugs of all kinds (KKK, Black Panthers, Prison Inmates)

That is a pretty wide net you are throwing. It is starting make you sound like the movie bad guy who bans dancing in the town.

JuliannaM says

Before 1882, there were about 2,100 lynchings by KKK members. Assuming all those killed were blacks, we arrive at a maximum number: less than 5,600 blacks were killed by the KKK since its founding.
Indeed, "Lynching Century" states: "From 1865 to 1965 more than 6,000 blacks died in racial violence in the United States." [That is, 6,000 blacks killed by all sources, not by KKK members]. Intra-racial [not inter-racial], being the most prevalent homicide causality.

I am not attempting to disprove the number of murders vs lynchings....but attempting to show the effect that lynchings had on my people far outweigh the effect abortions had. Lynchings put my people in the mindset that they were subhuman and unworthy of dignity.

leoj707 says

That is a pretty wide net you are throwing. It is starting make you sound like the movie bad guy who bans dancing in the town.

Would you prefer a gentleman or a miscrient to be your husband? I am anti-lowlife regardless of the color of the persons skin. My kids and family are good, fun loving people....just like the GAP commercials. We aspire to live a righteous life...not as bandits and unkept low lifes. People should aspire to do better in life not espouse stupidity simply because they love tattoos, long hair and freedom of personal choice.

There comes a responsibility with all those freedoms...especially if you choose to follow the wrong cultures.

Clarence 13X says

Would you prefer a gentleman or a miscrient to be your husband?

A gentleman of course, however several of the items on your list are not mutually exclusive with being a gentleman.

Clarence 13X says

My kids and family are good, fun loving people

Yes, this is the aspiration. I think more so that an "righteous" life. Righteous can be defined so many ways many of which are not good, fun loving or gentlemanly. The KKK, Black Panthers for instance thought that they were doing righteous work.

I of course agree with anything on your list that has the words: gang, thug, fiend, or abuse (we may disagree on what exactly a fiend or abuser is though). However, I have two basic issues with your list.

1. Blaming/judging someone for a situation they might not have control over, i.e.- trailer park, welfare and/or ghetto. Those living conditions are all a sign of where someone is in the socioeconomic ladder. Agreed that on average they are "lower class", but that does not mean that there are not many in those situations who are good, fun loving and/or gentlemanly/ladylike. I would not restrict my daughters associations merely because of where someone lives.

2. People can be good, fun loving and/or gentlemanly/ladylike while enjoying rock-and-roll, hip-hop, a tattoo or two, and a drink in the evening.

Also, keep in mind that many miscreants and low-life's appear "normal".

Someone objected that of course blacks murder whites at twice the rate than whites murder blacks, simply because there are many more whites around to get murdered.

Now it occurs to me that if that were valid, it would also be true that most murders of blacks would be by whites, again because again there are so many more whites around to be murderers.

But most murders of blacks are by other blacks. So it seems that blacks are statistically much more violent than whites, and it is in fact rational to be much more afraid of blacks. On average.

. leoj707 says

I would not restrict my daughters associations merely because of where someone lives.

we agree

I do not think I have ever asked my kid where her friends live. I only ask if they have both parents in the house, siblings, stuff like that.

This page is a delightful way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

I have read through most of these comments, some are thought provoking and some, not so much. My opinion about race relations between blacks and whites in america are as follows. While I see progress being made just in my short lifetime, especially with the election of a half black president, racism is still alive and prominent in the U.S, reading some of these comments reflects that, but I do believe we are moving in the right direction and it is going to take many more generations to get there. The Constitution of the United States was written by a man that owned black slaves and signed by many other men who owned slaves, our first president owned slaves. Although slavery was ended, through a bloody war, the institution of racism and opression survived openly in America until the civil rights laws were passed in the 60's. Thats only one or two generations ago, compared to hundreds of years of white supremacy in this country. Maybe in a hundred years or so, the conversation will be a little different.

What happened to the rape statistics thread?

Paul Mooney said something like: If you want to stop Racism, kill all the white people.

It's all about culture. Race is correlated with culture, but it is not causally related. Because race is correlated with culture, and more so in times past with greater geographic isolation, racial appearance was once a reasonably good predictor of cultural affiliation. This is no longer true, clothing is better. Being wary of another's culture is justified and reasonable. Culture is a form of man-made and self-induced reality programing that can and does directly influence our behavior. Hence, we all are, and should be, concerned about the relative health of our various cultural ideologies. Race has simply gotten erroneously thrown into the middle of this challenge due to the age old common sense error of inferring causation from correlational evidence.

housingcasino4865 says

Fact: Red cars are more likely to get pulled over by cops

Actually, this is not a "fact" it is a myth: http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/redcars.asp

Just goes to show that a lot of what people 'know to be true' is no such thing.

Peter P says

What happened to the rape statistics thread?

Squashed by political correctness.