patrick.net

Oh no, another duck! : )

FYI Duck goes quite well with Yam.

New Renter says

I've been told utility companies don't like these systems. On-Grid home power generators can be a safety issue when performing maintenance on the local grid.

A problem easily solvable with an automatic switch. I.E. - during a power outage situation, you want your home grid to disconnect from the utility so that you aren't potentially backfeeding then.

freak80 says

rohk says

I live in California, so actually, according to the Federal Government (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2), the Leaf (120 g/mile) *is* more CO2 clean than the new Plug-in Prius (190 g/mile), or the regular Prius (222 g/mile).

I'm assuming the fueleconomy.gov site takes local/regional electrical plants into account? If you live in an area with mainly carbon-free electrical plants, EV's *are* eco-friendly.

Sorry, but using "local" grid numbers is not correct. The grid is widely interconnected, and soon will be completely interconnected across ALL of North America(*). It is faulty to think that one can use the argument that "my locally generated power is greener than the average grid mix".

(*) The final tie in the North American grid is described here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tres_Amigas_SuperStation

So rohk, this is another case of you imagining that your electric car is cleaner than it is. Our government is unfortunately in on the scam, trying to rig the numbers to make things look better than they are.

freak80 says

Raw,

You're another "data point" that supports my (growing) belief that the far-left is just as unhinged as the far-right.

Oil company profits are illegal? Really? Yes, oil companies have been caught doing all sorts of shady things, but that doesn't mean that ALL of their profits are unethical, much less illegal.

If you want to call something as illegal, see OPEC. OPEC is an *actual* cartel. If US anti-trust laws had jurisdiction, OPEC would probably be considered a "trust."

No, I don't work for an oil company or have investments in said companies (other than indirectly via an index fund).

I just don't like oil companies
They pollute...lie...cheat....control our politicians....influence the voters....collude with other oil companies....take government subsidies....make enormous profits and pay little or no tax.
And most of all...Rape mother earth.

Be that may but any kind of a modern lifestyle is much harder to impossible to achieve without them.

New Renter says

Be that may but any kind of a modern lifestyle is much harder to impossible to achieve without them.

For now.
The future holds a clean and pollution free world.

Raw says

New Renter says

Be that may but any kind of a modern lifestyle is much harder to impossible to achieve without them.

For now.

The future holds a clean and pollution free world.

Or an overheated hellhole where the rising sea levels have put all coastal communites literally underwater.

New Renter says

Or an overheated hellhole where the rising sea levels have put all coastal communites literally underwater.

That's the scenario I'm betting on.

Our endless "one-upmanship" will ultimately bring about our extinction.

Seems fair.

justme says

It is faulty to think that one can use the argument that "my locally generated power is greener than the average grid mix".

I admit, the workings of "the grid" are totally beyond my circle of competence.

With alternating current, a lot of the "common sense" goes out the window.

justme,
Sure, we're all interconnected now, but note that one benefit of Tres Amigas is to make it easier to ramp up production of renewable electricity.
@freak80 -- Tres Amigas is actually a high voltage DC interconnection (as the three amigas that it connects are AC islands that aren't synchronized with each other).

EBGuy says

Tres Amigas is actually a high voltage DC interconnection (as the three amigas that it connects are AC islands that aren't synchronized with each other).

Those guys were *never* synchronized with each other.

EBGuy says

justme,
Sure, we're all interconnected now, but note that one benefit of Tres Amigas is to make it easier to ramp up production of renewable electricity.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm all in favor of full connectivity, as I think should be obvious.

But note that the Tres Amigas interconnection can be used in detrimental ways as well.

For example, whenever east-cost coal-fired electricity is cheaper than west-coast natgas-fired electricity, Tres Amigas can be used to INCREASE the gCO2/kWh by purchasing and transferring electricity from the east cost and transferring to the west coast, all the while reducing output from west coast natgas plants. Basically the grid mix can be made WORSE if someone has economic incentive to do it. For sure, grid mix can be regulated by law, but who knows whether and how that might happen in practice.

Only one thing is certain: Tres Amigas creates a truly national market for electricity, and it will no longer be possible for anyone to claim that "the electricity *I* use is greener than what other people use".