patrick.net

dublin hillz says

It's a tough situation - based on what you are describing it sounds like he had complete trust in you when he disclosed the cheating. Personally, I would not tell his wife.

Yeah, my general feeling is, it wouldn't be right for me to be the exposer. I'm going to chat with him, and if he wants to continue, it's his choice. Although, I do think I would rather keep our relationship more "professional" and business-like from now on.

Are you going to tell him you've been discussing it on a public forum?

Silence is golden.

I don't cheat on my GF but I gotta admit monogamy is NOT natural, it's a completely made up social construct (obviously).

That said, you really shouldn't say anything, let them sort out those kinds of things themselves.

CrazyMan says

I don't cheat on my GF but I gotta admit monogamy is NOT natural, it's a completely made up social construct (obviously).

Sure monogamy is natural. Lots of people (and other species for that matter) practice monogamy. That said cheating and multiple partners is also natural.

There's a lesson to be learned here.

Loose lips sink ships.

You never know when someone you thought was your friend will turn around and stab you in the back.

Goran_K says

during my days at Goldman Sachs

If you had worked at GS, you might have learned to trade against your clients. What is this mean? If GS says buy, perhaps one should really sell because that is what GS is doing for their own account.

First thing is to verify the truth... did you see him having sex with the mistresses?

I haven't seen the act in person, but I don't see any reason why he would purposefully lie to me.

Like I said, I've sort of decided to keep out of the actual confrontation that may occur, but I will tell him my opinion of his activities.

Goran_K says

I haven't seen the act in person, but I don't see any reason why he would purposefully lie to me.

Maybe he is telling another close friend about a "steady" in Atlanta, and another about one in Boston.

Now he quietly waits to see what steady lover his wife is going to complain about.

Trust me, she already knows.
Having a friend point out the obvious would put her on the spot to make a decision based on what people thought about her, rather than what she would rather do.

That being said, I am not a horn dog, and can't bring my self to be one. But I do have friends, family and acquaintances who are huge horn dogs, and I'm quite certain their wives know. They've only broken up about ten times over the course of their marriage over it.

You may motivate her to act on the information you have, but that doesn't mean she will be grateful, and none of four of you, will never be the same friends again. Probably more than likely they will continue as a couple, he's showering her with his bounty right now. But they'll cut you guys off from their lives so they don't have to deal with the awkwardness of having to deal with you again.

Time wounds all heels.

He'll get his in the end, about the time, he's chewed up and spat out on the down slope of his climax in his career. About into the 2nd year of job hunting, and foreclosure notices start coming. Hornboy wont be so damn sexy to her then.

Goran_K says

Yeah, my general feeling is, it wouldn't be right for me to be the exposer. I'm going to chat with him, and if he wants to continue, it's his choice. Although, I do think I would rather keep our relationship more "professional" and business-like from now on.

I wouldn't even do that.
He's throwing you a bone, because you have camaraderie with him, if you break that link and seem judgmental on his life choices, then what good would that do you?

You can keep it professional, by saying things like "Ah, uh, gee how 'bout those Mets?" when he brings the subject up.

leo707 says

Maybe he is telling another close friend about a "steady" in Atlanta, and another about one in Boston.

Now he quietly waits to see what steady lover his wife is going to complain about.

Well he does remind me of Tyrion Lannister.

CaptainShuddup says

He'll get his in the end, about the time, he's chewed up and spat out on the down slope of his climax in his career. About into the 2nd year of job hunting, and foreclosure notices start coming. Hornboy wont be so damn sexy to her then.

Though that would be sad, I do believe in karma, which is why I'm willing to chat with him about it.

Goran_K says

Though that would be sad, I do believe in karma, which is why I'm willing to chat with him about it.

Well you do what you want, but people tend to not appreciate moral superiority.
That's not to say, we don't love to be morally superior.
See there's a problem, You're on your high horse, and he's on his horse well there's a horsie on his Ferrari. You both trying to head each other off at the pass, but with different objectives.
He's trying to throw you a bone, in the form of work, he's supposed to be the "Good boy", now if you're trying to the be long ranger too, by telling him, he's a bad man. Then his efforts is all for naught. There's not enough hand rails on that ride for two, one of you will have to get off.

I say rat him out big time. It will make your life a lot more dramatic and interesting for a while, but maybe not as pleasant.

Also, his wife might decide to revenge fuck all of his friends and acquaintances, and you might be on the list!

DO NOT DO IT.

Divorce is extremely costly. It can cause family wealth to diminish upwards of 75% when you account for attorney and court fees.

Divorce is also extremely unfair to men in America.

If you really are his "friend", you would keep your mouth shut.

And it's not only for him but for the kids.

Once his children have finished college, then you can go rat him out if you want. Although I still advise against it.

It's also better you keep your nose out of people's affairs and business which is none of you concern.

Children become permanently scarred through divorce. Screw his money-hungry bitch of a wife.

The children are more important than her.

If he had no kids, than fine. Go rat him out. Even than I would not suggest it.

But since he has kids, I DEMAND AND FORCE YOU TO SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Goran_K says

What if she ends up getting some horrible STD?

What if the kids end up as some horrible criminal because they don't have a father?

Majority of male criminals in prison are raised from single mothers because they never had a father figure or male role model to guide them properly. Mothers are useless when it comes to becoming a man.

Majority of std-infested prostitutes, porn stars and whores come from single mothers.

The wife probably already has an STD. Let's now prevent the children from becoming criminals and getting STDS.

Fuck the parents. They are not important. They have already lived their life. Let the kids live in peace and give them a chance a normal healthy life.

And you want to rat him out because you had a small little issue, quarell or disharmony with him?

Goran_K says

betraying his families trust

Divorce attorneys will betray his families trust.

PLEASE SHUT UP AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

I have had a lot of experience with divorce, it's effects, costs and have done a lot of research into it.

Do not get involved in other people's stuff. People have been brutally murdered over stuff like this.

Not saying you will be, but you never know.

Instead of getting involved in other people's mess, go worry about yourself.

And no, I don't think it's good with what he did and is doing.

Goran... You are just like fucking realtors...

Fucking up the children's inheritance and family wealth.

Keep your mouth shut, none of your business, etc.

If he tries to bring it up again tell him to drop the subject, and tell him to be careful on who he tells this shit to. You are an honest guy and probably would never blackmail anybody, but some people would.

Tell him that it's in his best interest to shut up.

lol

I'm not going to rat him out. I think that's a horrible idea, and I do think he might harm me (who wouldn't).

But I still want to try and talk some sense into him.

Goran_K says

While I do find her attractive, I couldn't do it. Sleeping with your friend's wife is probably one of the worst things I could think of ever doing.

And also the tawdry premise of a lot of bad porn...

"I need you to fuck my wife..."

what is 'rub beards'? urbandictionary doesnt have it.

Funny thread but be aware if you interfere with a mans marriage/children that is 'declaration of war' and you might not like the rules he plays by.

Well he could instantly cut my income by 20%. So it's not like this goes without risk.

That being said, he's a good friend, I doubt he would flip out with me trying to talk him out of being a cheater.

Goran -- first off, I admire your moral hygiene. You're a regular Galahad, whose heart is in the exact right place here.

My first bit of advice: don't assume everyman is about as good a person as you are, (or strive to be), and therefore, accountable to the same code. You also cannot assume that every woman expects or anticipates that their man is about as good a person as you are, (or strive to be). I think some people just don't want to be totally alone in the world is all, and they put up with the inevitable vagaries of long term commitments as well as the shortcomings of shitty men (and asshole women).

It could well be that there are undercurrents in this man's marriage that both he and his wife already sense, but which remain untagged in order for each of them to function as reasonably "together" human beings. IOW, the idea that this stuff has not yet or will never come out in the laundry is totally farfetched. Most women's intuition is impossibly acute. As insane and counter-intuitive as it sounds to someone with a high moral thread count, it could be that this particular time is just not the best for either of them to look under the rug at all the bugs they've both been sweeping under there. I think this thing will take care of itself eventually.

And, as someone else mentioned, it could also be an open marriage, perhaps even only implicitly. As progressive and fashionable as this sounds to some middlebrow intellectual types, this arrangement will also not last, (because really, what is the point anyway?), and is usually a last gasp in a relationship.

The best thing for you to do is to learn from this experience. Be sensitive to the woman and open up to your own woman about how it makes you feel. Really, seriously -- talk about it. As for your friendship with this fellow...he sounds like more of a colleague than friend. Therefore, I recommend keeping your cards close. Asking anyone to look at something they're doing is almost always going to create tension, but especially something of this magnitude. The fact that he's so glib about his corruption and dishonesty toward the one person on the planet he should be striving to do right by has probably already diminished your respect for him, which makes tasking yourself with the herculean effort of putting him in touch with himself that much less compelling.

In other words, fuck that guy.

If it were me, I'd let it slip to my wife that he was fooling around. Your wife can probably better gauge what to tell, or what not to tell, his wife. She will probably be able to drop a very subtle hint that plants the seeds of doubt with the other wife (if she doesn't already know). If she does already know, she'll brush off the subtle hint, otherwise, she'll start watching him and looking for signs (which would be pretty easy to spot). Not to drop stereotypes, but guys totally suck at reading this sort of stuff.

His announcing it to you so casually means either he:
a. trusts you (which will be destroyed if you tell)
b. thinks he's indestructible (which means he's lost touch with reality)
c. wants out of his marriage, but doesn't want to initiate it.

I had a similar problem w/ a really good friend while we were in college. He'd cheat on his girlfriend of 6 years. yes, I know it's not the same thing as being married, but a 6 year relationship from HS into college says something.... I was dating my friend's roomate, and they all had suspicions (sp?)... I denied, denied, denied when asked. I had arguments w/ my friend, saying "do you have any idea of the kind of 'estrogen shit storm' you put me through the other day?!".... Well, she eventually broke it up, and he was a mess for a while.... In your case, yeah it sucks you are burdened w/ the truth that you didn't ask for..... But at the same time, you are enjoying being his friend on a few levels. ($$, friendship, etc)....C'mon, this is a no-brainer. You don't tell ANYONE, and keep it to yourself. Maybe you have a drink w/ your friend, and genuinely express your sadness about his 'bombshell'. Remind him that you now have to 'keep up appearances' now that you have this in your head. Hopefully he'll understand, and maybe you can ask him not to talk about his 'adventures'. I know it's not fun, but good friends are rare.......As far as my friend and his story? I was his best man at his wedding 5 years after we graduated. He's got 3 kids and never strayed. He's a godfather to one of my sons. He's a good friend that I put up w/ through thick and thin 'back in the day'. That what good friends do.

Goran_K says

Well he could instantly cut my income by 20%. So it's not like this goes without risk.

That being said, he's a good friend, I doubt he would flip out with me trying to talk him out of being a cheater.

You keep posting that you plan to "talk him out of it"

Play that out,,,on paper,,,in your head, whatever. Because I don't see that as any type of solution to what you percieve as a problem.

Gorank : hey buddy, I really think you ought to say sober when on the road, and just retreat to your hotel room early for a cold shower, and skype your wife and kids until you nod off,,,

Friend : what, you mean instead of making rounds with hordes of hot pieces of ass merely looking for a fling, while I'm away on bidness? Why, I never really thought of that,,,good idea.

Gorank: well that was easier then I thought,,,everyone at patnet was telling me to mind my own business. Idiots

Friend : hahaha that they are! Thanks for showing me the light.

gbenson says

If it were me, I'd let it slip to my wife that he was fooling around. Your wife can probably better gauge what to tell, or what not to tell, his wife. She will probably be able to drop a very subtle hint that plants the seeds of doubt with the other wife (if she doesn't already know). If she does already know, she'll brush off the subtle hint, otherwise, she'll start watching him and looking for signs (which would be pretty easy to spot). Not to drop stereotypes, but guys totally suck at reading this sort of stuff.

His announcing it to you so casually means either he:
a. trusts you (which will be destroyed if you tell)
b. thinks he's indestructible (which means he's lost touch with reality)
c. wants out of his marriage, but doesn't want to initiate it.

-----------------------------------
What? No, you don't tell the old lady nuthin! No good can come out of this advice. Nothing. Now you have two people w the 'screw eye' when this guy's friend and wife come over. It will ruin the guy's friendship, the whole family dynamic between the families, the guy's marriage, the friendship between the wives. Total catastrophe. Don't buy front row tickets for this event you are causing. Let him fuck it up himself (which he may or may not do)... Goran has two options: 1) act like this info never happened or 2) do the slow fade in friendship (which i don't know if it's possible).

Yeah I think rub beards is a reference to cunnilingus.

Thanks for the advice Jody, gbenson, and AverageBear. He probably won't listen to me, but in the 1% chance he snaps out of it, I'll let him know the best thing to do is just enjoy is awsome beautiful wife instead of the lonely home wrecker he's using on business trips.

AverageBear says

No, you don't tell the old lady nuthin! No good can come out of this advice.

Meh, that's your opinion. My attitude on this, (and I suspect Goran's may be similar) is that he's turning the situation around. Ask yourself if your wife was cheating and your wife's friend knew about it, would you want her to tell you?

I once had dinner with a CEO of a company in Japan and a sales exec who was, shall we say, very flirtatious, while on the road. Both were married and had kids. Over dinner (one of those posh private chefs deals at a 5 star hotel) the subject of how far you'd go on the road came up and I stated my belief that I'd only do what I'd feel comfortable that my wife was doing while she was on the road. I could tell by the expressions on their face that neither of them had ever considered it from that perspective, or perhaps didn't want to. Not sure why, but the CEO whispered something to the hostess and the Geisha's waiting for us to finish dinner left shortly after. I suspect I ruined their evening, but I can still look my wife in the eye.

It's a heavy cross to bear, but I knew being a godless Atheist liberal wasn't going to be easy among all these family values religious conservatives running amok... :'P

gbenson says

I once had dinner with a CEO of a company in Japan and a sales exec who was, shall we say, very flirtatious, while on the road. Both were married and had kids. Over dinner (one of those posh private chefs deals at a 5 star hotel) the subject of how far you'd go on the road came up and I stated my belief that I'd only do what I'd feel comfortable that my wife was doing while she was on the road. I could tell by the expressions on their face that neither of them had ever considered it from that perspective, or perhaps didn't want to. Not sure why, but the CEO whispered something to the hostess and the Geisha's waiting for us to finish dinner left shortly after. I suspect I ruined their evening, but I can still look my wife in the eye.

How'd the deal with that company work out?

Goran_K says

But I still want to try and talk some sense into him.

Goran, just happened to think, you could always use the old reverse phycology trick on him. Next time this topic comes up with him, say, "Whew, I am glad we can talk about stuff like this. Cause you know, while you were away on your last trip, your wife was flirting with me pretty bad. It's great to know you two have an open enough relationship to where you'd be cool with what happened."

Too much? :)

New Renter says

How'd the deal with that company work out?

They had flown me to Tokyo to do a dog an pony show of their product (we were their star customer), so there weren't any business repercussions. (Besides, we were all pretty much plastered by then anyway on some really good Sake) Not sure about the CEO, but the sales guy changed jobs a few moths later to a position where he wouldn't be on the road as much and could stay home with his family.

Hysteresis says

have you masturbated while married without your wife knowing? rhetorical question. i know the answer.

it's not that different than cheating, he just does it (orgasm with someone other than the wife) with real people instead of a computer. lol.

I masturbate to pictures of my wife and it's hot.

If this guy is a true serial cheater, there's pretty much zero chance he will change his behavior if you talk to him. Do a little web surfing on serial cheaters if you are interested in the psychology. So if your only reason to talk to him is to convince him that he needs to stop, you might as well not waste your time.

As above, my main concern would be health risks to his wife. Plenty of Japanese housewives have wound up HIV positive courtesy their husbands' "golf trips" to Thailand. For those who have posted that telling the wife will likely have adverse effects on the kids, how do you think the kids would be affected by their mom slowly wasting away from AIDS? Or dying from hep C induced liver failure? If you knew your wife was out fucking random guys, would you have unprotected sex with her?

Your friend has placed you in a lose-lose situation. If you talk to him, his behavior won't change and your relationship may take a turn for the worse. If you don't talk to him and things blow up, your wife will be suspicious as to whether you knew what was going on, and that means trouble for you.

I think the suggestion to have a conversation with your wife is a good one. This is the kind of stuff that partners are supposed to share with each other, and the potential fallout affects both of you.

rooemoore says

Hysteresis says

have you masturbated while married without your wife knowing? rhetorical question. i know the answer.

it's not that different than cheating, he just does it (orgasm with someone other than the wife) with real people instead of a computer. lol.

I masturbate to pictures of my wife and it's hot.

She's hot? Prove it!

CaptainShuddup says

You may motivate her to act on the information you have, but that doesn't mean she will be grateful, and none of four of you, will never be the same friends again. Probably more than likely they will continue as a couple, he's showering her with his bounty right now. But they'll cut you guys off from their lives so they don't have to deal with the awkwardness of having to deal with you again.

I agree with everything the Captain said. I wouldn't mention it. And anything you say is not going to stop the guy anyway. I would just change the subject if it's brought up. He probably has some level of guilt about it. He was hoping you'd say yes, you cheated, so he could feel better about himself.

Actually I do agree he may have been looking for some sort of validation from me, looking for me to recount some wild "cheat" stories I may have. It was sort of an awkward end to the conversation, and I know he could tell I was a little bothered. Part of me thinks he won't bring it up again, he's not a dumb guy, he's sharp, and perceptive. You need to be when you're in his position.

Not only should you rat him out but you should make up a bunch of horrible lies to add to the narrative and then have an affair with his wife.