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Unions need to wake up and smell the world of competition. They already shipped USA jobs overseas by their unsustainable wages and benefits demands.
Unsustainable = more than $1.50/hour,
Unsustainable = offering any benefits
Unsustainable = making any effort at all to not turn the local environment into a toxic soup, where employees must wear masks when breathing ... anywhere.
Yah unions are the problem.
Corporations just saw an opportunity, first to undercut competitor on price, then to maximize profits and took it.
And both parties streamlined the way for this to happen.
God bless America.
When I was younger, I felt strongly that unions were dinosaurs from the past, obsolete in the modern workplace.
My position has changed in the last 15 years or so, seeing how workers' wages have stagnated versus productivity since 1980, while executives who contribute fuck all to actual core operations take away ridiculous multiples of the average worker's salary.
It is strange to watch fellow blue collar worker types merrily bashing unions and shilling for their own destroyers.
ETA: Any twinkie union bashers care to discuss the commercial baking experience of the last few Hostess CEOs, and the concessions that the unions made over and over in that time period, against the unfulfilled promise that the reduced wages would mean reinvestment in the plants and the brand? The unions repeatedly agreed to pay cuts that went straight into executive pockets, and when they finally said NO to another, the narrative became about how the unions killed the company financially.
ETA: Any twinkie union bashers care to discuss the commercial baking
experience of the last few Hostess CEOs, and the concessions that the unions
made over and over in that time period, against the unfulfilled promise that the
reduced wages would mean reinvestment in the plants and the brand? The unions
repeatedly agreed to pay cuts that went straight into executive pockets, and
when they finally said NO to another, the narrative became about how the unions
killed the company financially.
Driving the business into bankruptcy was what made this all possible, just like with GM. And, how convenient that the CEO and all the other top dogs walked away with their pockets full.
The local Hostess store looks like it just closed yesterday, and the shopping carts, signs and everything else are still there ready to open tomorrow if need be. Was it the long range plan, and wher's all the top dogs and CEO now???
ETA: Any twinkie union bashers care to discuss the commercial baking experience of the last few Hostess CEOs, and the concessions that the unions made over and over in that time period, against the unfulfilled promise that the reduced wages would mean reinvestment in the plants and the brand? The unions repeatedly agreed to pay cuts that went straight into executive pockets, and when they finally said NO to another, the narrative became about how the unions killed the company financially.
Don't confuse the right-wing nuts with those pesky facts.
Why didn't the union make a bid for the company? Why doesn't the union open up its own plant?
This thread is filled with management bashing. If its so clear what Hostess management did wrong then why doesn't the union make it happen?
Unsustainable = more than $1.50/hour,
Unsustainable = offering any benefits
Unsustainable = making any effort at all to not turn the local environment into a toxic soup, where employees must wear masks when breathing ... anywhere.Yah unions are the problem.
Corporations just saw an opportunity, first to undercut competitor on price, then to maximize profits and took it.
First .. it was the foreign corporations that undercut the US competitors on price by dumping below cost to produce ... the Japaneses did this in spades across many industries. The US and Europeans had little say just to survive by setting up mfg overseas much of it in Asia.
Second, like any Semiconductor "clean room", it wasnt what you breath in, but what you breath out which would not damage the wafer. Much like a hospital surgery room.
And dont forget what even with the contained toxic chemicals, the benefits of creating Semiconductors lead to decades in creating the "tech revolution"... rise in jobs, incomes, GDP...
Would you actually trade off all the success and gains we made and give it to someone else ?
Yah unions are the problem.
The auto unions won every strike, won every concession, and the results are now history.
Why didn't the union make a bid for the company? Why doesn't the union open up its own plant?
Huh? Because it's a labor union, not a venture capital firm. What kind of ridiculous question is that? Why isn't your barber a dentist? Because he's a barber.
Huh? Because it's a labor union, not a venture capital firm. What kind of ridiculous question is that? Why isn't your barber a dentist? Because he's a barber.
I'm pretty sure that it's been done before where the union did buy the company. With more time I might be able to find an example (might have happened before the internet though). I'm thinking it was a steel mill.
The the entire philosophy of the right is that corporations can do whatever they want to consolidate their power -- mergers, lobbying, writing legislation and handing it off to senators, forcing unconscionable contracts on the public, hiding assets overseas, and exploiting labor as much as they can get away with -- but god forbid labor consolidates its limited power. That's equivalent to being a traitor to America.
Huh? Because it's a labor union, not a venture capital firm. What kind of ridiculous question is that? Why isn't your barber a dentist? Because he's a barber.
I'm pretty sure that it's been done before where the union did buy the company. With more time I might be able to find an example (might have happened before the internet though). I'm thinking it was a steel mill.
Its not that uncommon. I would say 5-10% of the transactions I have done is where the employees purchase the company via an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP).
Biggest problem here would be financing, as you typically want to have that in place well before the purchase (which obviously wasnt the case here).
Its not that uncommon. I would say 5-10% of the transactions I have done is where the employees purchase the company via an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP).
Can you name one labor union that has purchased a mega-corporation? (Not the employees; the union). Just one name will do.
Its not that uncommon. I would say 5-10% of the transactions I have done is where the employees purchase the company via an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP).
Can you name one labor union that has purchased a mega-corporation? (Not the employees; the union). Just one name will do.
Whoops! My mistake, I didnt read closely enough. I was thinking of the employees, not the union.
As to your point, no, I dont know any unions who purchased the assets or entity - I suppose it could have happened, but I am not aware of this.
Yes, its always a good thing that unions are never around and that workers get paid less and less. That way the clueless right-wingers who are unknowing pawns of the various lobby and interest groups whom influence the right wing comedy they enjoy listening to and watching can then make even more money while convincing the right wingers how much better they will be if they continue to get paid less and less over time. Yep- that's how it woik!
Actually these days even with unions the new contract is often less than the old one. You know since if you don't make a concession, the factory is moving to Mexico, etc. Get with the times!
Actually these days even with unions the new contract is often less than the old one.
Then your argument falls flat. if your argument is that too bad unions aren't there and they won't get better pay, then I'm not sure whatever point you were trying to make...
The problem with unions are they are too political and can hamper a free market and growth of small businesses. As small businesses are already limited by large corporations that lobby to make sure the government doles out regulations that will make it prohibitive for the small businesses to compete where as for large corporations it's just the price of doing business in a bubble that protects them from innovation and price competition.
These large corporations that also have a Union labor force can implore union members to vote against small business friendly laws, and give them the day off to do so, when all non union workers are reporting to their menial lack luster jobs, where they dream one day of owning their own business. But little to they know, their Union counter parts are unilaterally taking part in the Democratic process that will dictate that they never will own their business.
Unions have reached beyond their own scope and have become political tools that vote against everyone else, instead of voting for things that are only in the scope of their own jobs.
Don't forget to flush and light a match I say. Unions can go to hell and DIE.
I'm just glad Hostess cakes are back. Yes they're bad for you, but we live in a world where everything causes cancer. I'd rather eat a few sponge cakes before I go down.
I'm just glad Hostess cakes are back. Yes they're bad for you, but we live in a world where everything causes cancer. I'd rather eat a few sponge cakes before I go down.
I didn't know that twinkies had been linked to cancer
However with a list of ingredients like this
Ingredients Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose corn syrup, vegetable shortening – containing one or more of the following: partially hydrogenated soybean oil, cottonseed oil, canola oil, and beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum, whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup solids, mono and diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate, natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow No. 5, red #40. [19]
You are putting yourself at risk of hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, leaky gut syndrome etc
Eat at your own risk
Or now thanks to ppaca, eat at the risk of everyone else shouldering the burden of paying for your sickcare
I really never liked Twinkies to start with. In fact I felt as a kid that Hostess brands snacks had a weird taste to them. Like how the chocolate icing didn't taste anything like chocolate. It tasted like sugar.
Either way, I don't eat that kind of crap these days anyway.
I didn't know that twinkies had been linked to cancer
However with a list of ingredients like this
Ingredients Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose corn syrup, vegetable shortening – containing one or more of the following: partially hydrogenated soybean oil, cottonseed oil, canola oil, and beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum, whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup solids, mono and diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate, natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow No. 5, red #40. [19]
You are putting yourself at risk of hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, leaky gut syndrome etc
Eat at your own risk
I don't think Twinkies cause cancer, I was simply commenting on the fact everything can kill you now. I was reading how living near a freeway can cause cancer. Now that I live near the coast, I am exposed to more sunlight so I am at greater risk for skin cancer. It's like, you can't win.
But twinkies, yes they make you fat, so does a rib eye steak. Not going to stop eating them. Everything is about moderation anyway, you eat too much fruit, you'll end up diabetic. You eat too much salad, and you'll be protein deficient. Regardless, I'd rather die 5 years earlier than have to eat bird seeds and drink spinach smoothies for the rest of my life.
I'm just glad Hostess cakes are back. Yes they're bad for you, but we live in
a world where everything causes cancer. I'd rather eat a few sponge cakes before
I go down.
I suggest you step up to your local Italian pastry shop, where you can enjoy true splendor on your way to an earlier grave. Why die for a mere Twinkie when the wonders of eggs, butter, sugar, flour, and cheese await you?
I suggest you step up to your local Italian pastry shop, where you can enjoy true splendor on your way to an earlier grave. Why die for a mere Twinkie when the wonders of eggs, butter, sugar, flour, and cheese await you?
I do like Cannoli's and napoleons.
In fact I felt as a kid that Hostess brands snacks had a weird taste to them.
So did I, Twinkies always had this like Cod liver oil after taste, that I never did reconcile.
I used to like Little Debbie, but those things have gotten smaller and I'm starting to notice they stick to the paper or plastic now. One reason I always like LD's were because no matter what product you bought, they slid right out the package with out one side losing the frosting or just generally coagulating to that waxy paper or the plastic they were in.
I might eat junk, but I refuse to eat Crap!
Unions have reached beyond their own scope and have become political tools that vote against everyone else, instead of voting for things that are only in the scope of their own jobs
Marcus will suck your dick if you take that back
But twinkies, yes they make you fat, so does a rib eye steak
How exactly does eating a rib eye steak make you fat? I'm confused
I might eat junk, but I refuse to eat Crap!
Still got your daughter on that steady diet of McDonald's Quarter Pounders? Don't worry, I'm sure that great healthcare plan you got will pay for the insulin. Which plan did you get again, the lead or the pewter?
I'm confused
True.
Well then, maybe you could clear things up for me a bit. Explain to me, scientifically, how eating a ribeye steak would make someone fat.
I wonder if these things are going to be difficult to buy for a while, since I am guessing that an initial buying surge from pent up demand should keep the shelves pretty empty for some time.
My favorite junk food is some of the Mexican pastries sold nearby where I live. I don't know what they're called, but there's these sort of cake muffin things with custard inside and I could probably eat a dozen of them no problem. They're dirt-cheap too.
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http://gma.yahoo.com/twinkies-return-hostess-unions-wont-030833930--abc-news-money.html
Twinkies Return, Hostess Unions Won't
he bankrupt assets of Hostess Brands, Inc., the company responsible for Twinkies, Ho Ho's, Sno Balls and Ding Dongs, are being put back to work by a buyout firm. What's not being put back to work are the former Hostess unionized employees.
The unionized workers had been on strike when the company folded late last year.
The company had imposed a contract that would cut its 19,000 workers' wages — 15,000 of whom belonged to the workers from the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM) — by 8 percent. (The Teamsters was Hostess' largest union, followed by BCTGM.) The contract would have also cut benefits by 27 to 32 percent.
Hostess filed for Chapter 11 in January 2012. In November 2012, the company announced it would be shutting its doors for good. By that time, it had lost about $1.1 billion, largely due to bankruptcy filings.
But last month Apollo Global Management, LLC, and Metropoulos & Co., which owns Pabst Blue Ribbon and Vlasic pickles, bought the 83-year-old company for $410 million, renaming it Hostess Brands LLC. It is planning to re-open four bakeries over the next two and a half months, in Columbus, Ga.; Emporia, Kan.; Schiller Park, Ill.; and Indianapolis. It is also contemplating a fifth in Los Angeles.
According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, C. Dean Metropoulos, the company's chief executive, said that between now and September, he plans to inject $60 million in capital investments into the plants, and hopes to hire at least 1,500 workers.
But those workers won't be unionized.
"It appears that they are discharging the union contract in bankruptcy," said Matthew A. Kaufman, a labor attorney in Los Angeles who is not affiliated with the case.
While Metropoulos did not respond to interview requests from ABC News, he told the Journal that he does "not expect to be involved in the union going forward."
A spokesman for the Teamsters declined to comment. But in a November 2012 statement the Teamsters noted that the "BCTGM's leaders are putting Teamster members in a horrible position – asking them to support a strike that will put them out of a job when they haven't even asked all their members to go on strike."
A spokeswoman for the BCTGM did not return phone calls to ABC News. In a March statement, BTCGM president David Durkee said, "We share the enthusiasm, energy and passions exhibited by new ownership, and believe our highly-motivated and skilled workforce will serve as indispensable partners in the seamless re-opening of factories," he said.
But, according to the Journal, Metropoulos and his son, Daren, felt confident that they would be able to hire non-union employees near the new plants.
"We're trying to find the most qualified people in these local markets to come work for the company," Daren Metropoulos told the Journal.