patrick.net

Why didn't the union make a bid for the company? Why doesn't the union open up its own plant?

This thread is filled with management bashing. If its so clear what Hostess management did wrong then why doesn't the union make it happen?

Quigley says

Unsustainable = more than $1.50/hour,

Unsustainable = offering any benefits

Unsustainable = making any effort at all to not turn the local environment into a toxic soup, where employees must wear masks when breathing ... anywhere.

Yah unions are the problem.

Corporations just saw an opportunity, first to undercut competitor on price, then to maximize profits and took it.

First .. it was the foreign corporations that undercut the US competitors on price by dumping below cost to produce ... the Japaneses did this in spades across many industries. The US and Europeans had little say just to survive by setting up mfg overseas much of it in Asia.

Second, like any Semiconductor "clean room", it wasnt what you breath in, but what you breath out which would not damage the wafer. Much like a hospital surgery room.
And dont forget what even with the contained toxic chemicals, the benefits of creating Semiconductors lead to decades in creating the "tech revolution"... rise in jobs, incomes, GDP...

Would you actually trade off all the success and gains we made and give it to someone else ?

Quigley says

Yah unions are the problem.

The auto unions won every strike, won every concession, and the results are now history.

thesafesurfer says

Why didn't the union make a bid for the company? Why doesn't the union open up its own plant?

Huh? Because it's a labor union, not a venture capital firm. What kind of ridiculous question is that? Why isn't your barber a dentist? Because he's a barber.

Homeboy says

Huh? Because it's a labor union, not a venture capital firm. What kind of ridiculous question is that? Why isn't your barber a dentist? Because he's a barber.

I'm pretty sure that it's been done before where the union did buy the company. With more time I might be able to find an example (might have happened before the internet though). I'm thinking it was a steel mill.

The the entire philosophy of the right is that corporations can do whatever they want to consolidate their power -- mergers, lobbying, writing legislation and handing it off to senators, forcing unconscionable contracts on the public, hiding assets overseas, and exploiting labor as much as they can get away with -- but god forbid labor consolidates its limited power. That's equivalent to being a traitor to America.

zzyzzx says

Homeboy says

Huh? Because it's a labor union, not a venture capital firm. What kind of ridiculous question is that? Why isn't your barber a dentist? Because he's a barber.

I'm pretty sure that it's been done before where the union did buy the company. With more time I might be able to find an example (might have happened before the internet though). I'm thinking it was a steel mill.

Its not that uncommon. I would say 5-10% of the transactions I have done is where the employees purchase the company via an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP).

Biggest problem here would be financing, as you typically want to have that in place well before the purchase (which obviously wasnt the case here).

CDon says

Its not that uncommon. I would say 5-10% of the transactions I have done is where the employees purchase the company via an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP).

Can you name one labor union that has purchased a mega-corporation? (Not the employees; the union). Just one name will do.

Homeboy says

CDon says

Its not that uncommon. I would say 5-10% of the transactions I have done is where the employees purchase the company via an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP).

Can you name one labor union that has purchased a mega-corporation? (Not the employees; the union). Just one name will do.

Whoops! My mistake, I didnt read closely enough. I was thinking of the employees, not the union.

As to your point, no, I dont know any unions who purchased the assets or entity - I suppose it could have happened, but I am not aware of this.

Yes, its always a good thing that unions are never around and that workers get paid less and less. That way the clueless right-wingers who are unknowing pawns of the various lobby and interest groups whom influence the right wing comedy they enjoy listening to and watching can then make even more money while convincing the right wingers how much better they will be if they continue to get paid less and less over time. Yep- that's how it woik!

Actually these days even with unions the new contract is often less than the old one. You know since if you don't make a concession, the factory is moving to Mexico, etc. Get with the times!

zzyzzx says

Actually these days even with unions the new contract is often less than the old one.

Then your argument falls flat. if your argument is that too bad unions aren't there and they won't get better pay, then I'm not sure whatever point you were trying to make...

The problem with unions are they are too political and can hamper a free market and growth of small businesses. As small businesses are already limited by large corporations that lobby to make sure the government doles out regulations that will make it prohibitive for the small businesses to compete where as for large corporations it's just the price of doing business in a bubble that protects them from innovation and price competition.

These large corporations that also have a Union labor force can implore union members to vote against small business friendly laws, and give them the day off to do so, when all non union workers are reporting to their menial lack luster jobs, where they dream one day of owning their own business. But little to they know, their Union counter parts are unilaterally taking part in the Democratic process that will dictate that they never will own their business.

Unions have reached beyond their own scope and have become political tools that vote against everyone else, instead of voting for things that are only in the scope of their own jobs.

Don't forget to flush and light a match I say. Unions can go to hell and DIE.

I'm just glad Hostess cakes are back. Yes they're bad for you, but we live in a world where everything causes cancer. I'd rather eat a few sponge cakes before I go down.

HEY YOU says

All the Rep/Con/Tea union members will get what they deserve.

More twinkies?

Goran_K says

I'm just glad Hostess cakes are back. Yes they're bad for you, but we live in a world where everything causes cancer. I'd rather eat a few sponge cakes before I go down.

I didn't know that twinkies had been linked to cancer

However with a list of ingredients like this

Ingredients Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose corn syrup, vegetable shortening – containing one or more of the following: partially hydrogenated soybean oil, cottonseed oil, canola oil, and beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum, whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup solids, mono and diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate, natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow No. 5, red #40. [19]

You are putting yourself at risk of hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, leaky gut syndrome etc

Eat at your own risk

Or now thanks to ppaca, eat at the risk of everyone else shouldering the burden of paying for your sickcare

errc says

high fructose corn syrup

Terrible stuff.

I really never liked Twinkies to start with. In fact I felt as a kid that Hostess brands snacks had a weird taste to them. Like how the chocolate icing didn't taste anything like chocolate. It tasted like sugar.

Either way, I don't eat that kind of crap these days anyway.

errc says

I didn't know that twinkies had been linked to cancer

However with a list of ingredients like this

Ingredients Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose corn syrup, vegetable shortening – containing one or more of the following: partially hydrogenated soybean oil, cottonseed oil, canola oil, and beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum, whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup solids, mono and diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate, natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow No. 5, red #40. [19]

You are putting yourself at risk of hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, leaky gut syndrome etc

Eat at your own risk

I don't think Twinkies cause cancer, I was simply commenting on the fact everything can kill you now. I was reading how living near a freeway can cause cancer. Now that I live near the coast, I am exposed to more sunlight so I am at greater risk for skin cancer. It's like, you can't win.

But twinkies, yes they make you fat, so does a rib eye steak. Not going to stop eating them. Everything is about moderation anyway, you eat too much fruit, you'll end up diabetic. You eat too much salad, and you'll be protein deficient. Regardless, I'd rather die 5 years earlier than have to eat bird seeds and drink spinach smoothies for the rest of my life.

Goran_K says

I'm just glad Hostess cakes are back. Yes they're bad for you, but we live in
a world where everything causes cancer. I'd rather eat a few sponge cakes before
I go down.

I suggest you step up to your local Italian pastry shop, where you can enjoy true splendor on your way to an earlier grave. Why die for a mere Twinkie when the wonders of eggs, butter, sugar, flour, and cheese await you?

Philistine says

I suggest you step up to your local Italian pastry shop, where you can enjoy true splendor on your way to an earlier grave. Why die for a mere Twinkie when the wonders of eggs, butter, sugar, flour, and cheese await you?

I do like Cannoli's and napoleons.

edvard2 says

In fact I felt as a kid that Hostess brands snacks had a weird taste to them.

So did I, Twinkies always had this like Cod liver oil after taste, that I never did reconcile.

I used to like Little Debbie, but those things have gotten smaller and I'm starting to notice they stick to the paper or plastic now. One reason I always like LD's were because no matter what product you bought, they slid right out the package with out one side losing the frosting or just generally coagulating to that waxy paper or the plastic they were in.

I might eat junk, but I refuse to eat Crap!

CaptainShuddup says

Unions have reached beyond their own scope and have become political tools that vote against everyone else, instead of voting for things that are only in the scope of their own jobs

Marcus will suck your dick if you take that back

But twinkies, yes they make you fat, so does a rib eye steak

How exactly does eating a rib eye steak make you fat? I'm confused

errc says

I'm confused

True.

CaptainShuddup says

I might eat junk, but I refuse to eat Crap!

Still got your daughter on that steady diet of McDonald's Quarter Pounders? Don't worry, I'm sure that great healthcare plan you got will pay for the insulin. Which plan did you get again, the lead or the pewter?

Homeboy says

errc says

I'm confused

True.

Well then, maybe you could clear things up for me a bit. Explain to me, scientifically, how eating a ribeye steak would make someone fat.

I wonder if these things are going to be difficult to buy for a while, since I am guessing that an initial buying surge from pent up demand should keep the shelves pretty empty for some time.

My favorite junk food is some of the Mexican pastries sold nearby where I live. I don't know what they're called, but there's these sort of cake muffin things with custard inside and I could probably eat a dozen of them no problem. They're dirt-cheap too.

edvard, do you live in SoCal or NorCal?

edvard2 says

I don't know what they're called

Torta con caca de nina

errc says

Well then, maybe you could clear things up for me a bit. Explain to me, scientifically, how eating a ribeye steak would make someone fat.

You don't understand how the human body stores excess calories as fat? Wow, pretty remedial, but here you go:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/416664-how-does-your-body-store-excess-calories/

Steak contains calories, just like every other kind of food. They are not "magic" calories.

Homeboy says

errc says

Well then, maybe you could clear things up for me a bit. Explain to me, scientifically, how eating a ribeye steak would make someone fat.

You don't understand how the human body stores excess calories as fat? Wow, pretty remedial, but here you go:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/416664-how-does-your-body-store-excess-calories/

Steak contains calories, just like every other kind of food. They are not "magic" calories.

Nobody except for you, labeled them as "magic" calories.

You also labeled them as "excess" calories

I had asked that you explain to me how eating a ribeye would make someone fat (scientifically).

You responded emotionally with some nonsense and a livestrong link lol.

Care to try again?

Umm because your average 16oz ribeye is nearly 1600 calories, half of which is fat?

That's almost your entire daily allotment of calories for the average sized person.

indigenous says

Torta con caca de nina

Well, I'm pretty sure it ain't baby poop.

Steak contains calories, just like every other kind of food. They are not "magic" calories.

This is also false. Steak doesn't "contain calories".

Ribeye is made up of fat and protein.

calories is somewhat of a misnomer. Its not an item contained within food, rather, a unit of measurement.

And when referring to food, we are technically talking about kilocalories, when we say calorie

The most weight I ever lost was by not eating anything white or dyed.

Which for the most part meant lots of meat and lots of broccoli.

Goran_K says

Umm because your average 16oz ribeye is nearly 1600 calories, half of which is fat?

That's almost your entire daily allotment of calories for the average sized person.

You seem to be operating under 19th century outdated information that assumed that all calories are created equal, which we now know to be false. Gotta love science.

If you ate nothing but ribeye steaks for a weak, and double your usual caloric intake, you would most certainly lose (fat) weight.

Only time I ever gained weight above what was considered healthy is when I got addicted to chocolate milk shakes back in college. I probably gained a good 15 pounds over my natural body weight.

But for the most part I've always been fairly thin, size 32 waist.