patrick.net

Well, if a muslim attacked other muslims in a mosque I can bet you no one would give a shit about that as well.

So are we gonna have any serious comments on this, or is it too difficult for Patnet members to look at a situation rationally?

Homeboy deletes comments. Nanny,Nanny, Boo,Boo

HEY YOU says

Homeboy deletes comments. Nanny,Nanny, Boo,Boo

Yes, I delete trollish comments like the one above. I'll leave that one just to show what kind of comments you make. Not really advancing the thread.

I agree with moderate infidel, its pretty tough to sell the idea that this is the same thing. a crazy in a church vs. A religion that wants to wipe out whole nations.

Also don't think this compares to blowing up 200 bystanders or running a jet into a building.

oldtimepatreader says

agree with moderate infidel, its pretty tough to sell the idea that this is the same thing. a crazy in a church vs. A religion that wants to wipe out whole nations.

Interesting. So when a Christian commits an act of violence, you do not consider it important. But a Muslim committing an act of violence IS important, because you think Islam is "a religion that wants to wipe out whole nations". Hmmm... no bias there.

Also, I don't recall saying this was the "same thing" as anything else. I said that when Muslims do something violent, there is great outrage, but when Christians do violent things, there is scarcely any mention of it. Spare us the strawman, o.k.?

Also don't think this compares to blowing up 200 bystanders or running a jet into a building.

200? There were only 3 deaths in the Boston Marathon bombing. At least 8 people have been killed by anti-abortion Christians. But hey, don't let any of those pesky facts get in the way of your hatred. I think it's perfectly reasonable of you to condemn a religion of 2 billion people because 2 crazy people committed a violent act. I'm sure Jesus would be proud of you.

Hmmm... I actually thought someone would try to make a cogent argument here, not just blind, over-the-top hatred. Guess I was wrong.

I agree with you homeboy - all religions are ridiculous. They all drive some of their followers to do violent acts. In the modern age, Islam is just better at it than others.

Homeboy, I see your point in this thread. However, the fact that it was not during a major sporting event (Boston Marathon), that there were no fatalites (9-11 and Boston Marathon, etc), tells me that it won't get the MSM's attention. Also, we don't know if the stabber is truly fuckin' nuts, or is anti-Christian, forgot to take is meds, etc.... With the Boston Marathon bombers, I think we found out what we were dealing with. Cold, calculated, well planned, etc. Can this be said of the stabber? We don't know anything from the dozen sentences that this CNN report....

Christians kill each other every day. Many of the gang homies are from nominally Christian families, as are the chollos who roll up to trade shots with them. They kill each other plenty good. The difference is something which eludes you. Christianity does not teach its followers to commit acts of violence (and don't bring in irrelevant Old Testament crap to argue me in this.) Islam has many passages which encourage violence for religious reasons against sinners and infidels. And worse, this is accepted doctrine among many Muslims. Numbers don't lie homeboy. No matter how much you'd like them to.

One doesn't have to plant bombs to be a religious terrorist. How about US evangelical Christians who were behind Uganda's "Kill the Gays" legislation:

http://atheism.about.com/b/2012/12/06/american-christian-evangelicals-celebrate-ugandas-kill-the-gays-bill.htm

Quigley says

Christianity does not teach its followers to commit acts of violence (and don't bring in irrelevant Old Testament crap to argue me in this.)

There's the crux of the problem right there. The two religions are actually very similar. Again, 2 billion Muslims - how many commit acts of violence? Not very many; we just make a huge deal about it when it happens.

The fact that you would cherry-pick passages from the Koran and claim the religion itself "teaches" its followers to "commit acts of violence", yet you dismiss identical passages in the Bible as "irrelevant", says more about YOU than it does about either religion.

I demonstrate to you how Christian violence is routinely ignored, while Muslim violence is routinely cited as supposed evidence that it is a "religion of violence", and you remain oblivious to simple logic.

Numbers don't lie homeboy. No matter how much you'd like them to.

Not sure what point you think you're making. If you tallied all the deaths at the hands of Christians and compared it to deaths at the hands of Muslims, the Christians would win hands down.

Quigley says

Christians kill each other every day. Many of the gang homies are from nominally
Christian families, as are the chollos who roll up to trade shots with them.
They kill each other plenty good. The difference is something which eludes you.
Christianity does not teach its followers to commit acts of violence (and don't
bring in irrelevant Old Testament crap to argue me in this.) Islam has many
passages which encourage violence for religious reasons against sinners and
infidels. And worse, this is accepted doctrine among many Muslims. Numbers don't
lie homeboy. No matter how much you'd like them to

Well, if you look at history, Christian nations have a very bloody history. Europe was constantly at war with each other-then you had the protestant and Catholic fights. Colonialism was practically invented by Christian nations and conversion into Christianity was a major undertaking.

All this culiminated in World War II-except Japan, all the majors were Christian nations.

Now having said that, after World War II, it looks like the Islamists have taken over the mantle and for the past few decades have been responsible for many terror attacks-ranging from places such as Bali, India, Thailand, USA, Pakistan itself and Europe. To deny that is silly.

Also Muslims do have a very savage history that rivalled or exceeded any Christian nation-they never were technologically advanced over the last century or so and couldn't do as widespread damage as the European nations and their weapons. It appears that they are catching up . But after World War II, one cannot deny that terorism and Jihadists/Islamists are almost synonymous. When one hears of a mass bombing, one immediately thinks it is a jihadist group-and usually it is.

Homeboy says

Interesting. So when a Christian commits an act of violence, you do not consider it important. But a Muslim committing an act of violence IS important, because you think Islam is "a religion that wants to wipe out whole nations". Hmmm... no bias there.

No. what you saw was a 'Fatwa' calling for all Muslims to commit acts of violence against the west (Christians).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fataw%C4%81_of_Osama_bin_Laden

Did you see the head of any Christian terrorist group announce an edict or such calling for ALL Christians be they catholic, protestant or any other instructing to kill Arabs and any other Muslims ?

lostand confused says

Colonialism was practically invented by Christian nations and conversion into Christianity was a major undertaking.

No.. Colonialism is pre-Christian and not exclusive to Europe.. since you can trace it back to Roman, Phoenicians, Egyptian, Greek times. The Mongols started their own colonialism as they spread West long before the "Age of Discovery" by European nations..

thomaswong.1986 says

lostand confused says

Colonialism was practically invented by Christian nations and conversion into Christianity was a major undertaking.

No.. Colonialism is pre-Christian and not exclusive to Europe.. since you can trace it back to Roman, Phoenicians, Egyptian, Greek times. The Mongols started their own colonialism as they spread West long before the "Age of Discovery" by European nations..

Yeah, but the Christian nations perfected it and took it to its zenith. The sun literally never set over the British empire and each European nation had its own empire that rivalled any of the ancient worlds. Now currently, Islamists do seem prone to terrorism and their history is pretty savage too-convert or face the sword. But that does not make Christianity's own savage history disappear. They did burn people alive ya know.

thomaswong.1986 says

No. what you saw was a 'Fatwa' calling for all Muslims to commit acts of violence against the west (Christians).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fataw%C4%81_of_Osama_bin_Laden

Did you see the head of any Christian terrorist group announce an edict or such calling for ALL Christians be they catholic, protestant or any other instructing to kill Arabs and any other Muslims ?

Oh, come one. Bin Laden was insane. To say that he had anything to do with mainstream Islam is like saying Jim Jones represented mainstream Christianity. You aren't serious with this, are you?

Right now, the batshit insane Westboro Baptist Church is saying that gay people should die. And there were 30 (Yes, 30) gay people murdered in 2011. http://www.washingtonblade.com/2012/05/31/report-anti-lgbt-murders-rose-11-percent-in-2011/ The difference between you and me is that I don't claim that is representative of ALL Christianity.

You have blinders on and don't see the facts that are right in front of your face.

Moderate Infidel says

How many christian or jewish terrorists blew themselves up over the last 10 years? I would include other religions in that statement but you seem focused on the Abrahamic religions.

Who cares how many Muslims blew themselves up?

I don't care if religious whackos blow themselves up if it doesn't involve anybody else, it's better for the entire human race by removing fantasy prone individuals from the gene pool.

What I do care about is killing other people besides themselves. Like Anders Brevik, Eric Rudolph, Ygal Amir, and of course OBL.

lostand confused says

But that does not make Christianity's own savage history disappear. They did burn people alive ya know.

Seriously... do try to read up on the Mongols invasion across Europe Middle East And Asia.

Homeboy says

Oh, come one. Bin Laden was insane. To say that he had anything to do with mainstream Islam is like saying Jim Jones represented mainstream Christianity. You aren't serious with this, are you?

Right now, the batshit insane Westboro Baptist Church is saying that gay people should die. And there were 30 (Yes, 30) gay people murdered in 2011. http://www.washingtonblade.com/2012/05/31/report-anti-lgbt-murders-rose-11-percent-in-2011/ The difference between you and me is that I don't claim that is representative of ALL Christianity.

sorry .. never heard of Westboro Bapist Church ? should I ? of course many in the middle east heard of OBL... and call him some kind of hero.

thomaswong.1986 says

sorry .. never heard of Westboro Bapist Church ? should I ?

Yes, you should have heard of them. But since you are obviously in denial, I guess radical religious sects don't interest you unless they are Muslim.

thomaswong.1986 says

of course many in the middle east heard of OBL... and call him some kind of hero.

Many in the U.S. think David Koresh was a hero. Do you? Do you think they speak for all Christians?

Homeboy says

Many in the U.S. think David Koresh was a hero. Do you? Do you think they speak for all Christians?

Many ? really how many ? and you base that on what ?

Homeboy says

Yes, you should have heard of them. But since you are obviously in denial, I guess radical religious sects don't interest you unless they are Muslim.

are you justifying the terrorist crimes based on someone from 20 years ago ?

thunderlips11 says

What I do care about is killing other people besides themselves. Like Anders Brevik, Eric Rudolph, Ygal Amir, and of course OBL.

Well both OBL and Yasser Arafat are leaders of Terrorist Organization. Certainly the others you list, are lone gunmen.

"In all but a handful of the 39 countries surveyed, a majority of Muslims say that Islam is the one true faith leading to eternal life in heaven, and that belief in God is necessary to be a moral person," the survey released Tuesday concludes. It adds that "many also think that their religious leaders should have at least some influence over political matters. And many express a desire for sharia — traditional Islamic law — to be recognized as the official law of their country."

Pack your burqa wearing sex slaves on your camel and take your crazy cult with you Mohammed.
Ever wonder why so many violent felons convert to Islam?

Homeboy says

So when a Christian commits an act of violence, you do not consider it important.

Where is there any indication he was a Christian? He wasn't a member of the church. Why isn't it possible he was just a nut off the street high on something? Why couldn't he have been an angry atheist, which is just as likely?

IslamReligion is a cancer that needs to be eradicated from the planet.

Fixed it for you.

thomaswong.1986 says

thunderlips11 says

What I do care about is killing other people besides themselves. Like Anders Brevik, Eric Rudolph, Ygal Amir, and of course OBL.

Well both OBL and Yasser Arafat are leaders of Terrorist Organization. Certainly the others you list, are lone gunmen.

So what? Where do the lone gunmen get their ideas? If we can point out that the Muslim Immigrant was led astray by whacky clerics, how did Eric Rudolph come to be?

When are we gonna smart bomb that church in Appalachia for it's violent teachings about blacks, abortion, etc.?

Moderate Infidel says

finehoe says

IslamReligion is a cancer that needs to be eradicated from the planet.

Fixed it for you.

I agree, only Islam is the highly aggressive form of cancer. Alot of "Christians" are right behind it though.

Christians are not "right behind" Muslims in terms of their radical dysfunction, violence and intolerance. Not even close. Why do people try to lump the other peaceful faiths with the dysfunction of Islam? Are they afraid of being called bigots and think it is safer to criticize all religion?

Did you see the latest Pew Poll of the Muslim Arab world? It is utterly depressing. Keep in mind they didn't even poll the 3 most Islamist countries (Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Iran).

For instance, almost 90% of Egyptians believe they should execute Muslims who leave the faith. Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Palestine are not far behind.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/04/daily-chart-20?fsrc=scn/tw/te/dc/Shariadolikeit

socal2 says

Why do people try to lump the other peaceful faiths with the dysfunction of Islam? Are they afraid of being called bigots and think it is safer to criticize all religion?

I put christians in quotations and said "some" meaning there are small minorities of bat shit crazy christians in this country. I agree that Islam is the problem as the other two cults, I mean religions, have for the most part adapted to the modern world.

thunderlips11 says

So what? Where do the lone gunmen get their ideas? If we can point out that the Muslim Immigrant was led astray by whacky clerics, how did Eric Rudolph come to be?

just as much as there is a difference btw a mugger and a gang member.

the terrorists are a group who will inflict much larger pain than a lone gun man.

thomasdong1776 says

homaswong.1986 says

are you justifying the terrorist crimes based on someone from 20 years ago ?

Much like you and Bill Ayers.

Lol! equally quilty.... and BA was also a member of a terrorist grooup.. hardly a lone gunman or bomber ...

socal2 says

Did you see the latest Pew Poll of the Muslim Arab world? It is utterly depressing. Keep in mind they didn't even poll the 3 most Islamist countries (Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Iran).

For instance, almost 90% of Egyptians believe they should execute Muslims who leave the faith. Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Palestine are not far behind.

what do they do to atheists ?

thomaswong.1986 says

Many ? really how many ? and you base that on what ?

Oh, I see how we're going to play it. O.K., then nobody thinks bin Laden is a hero either.

thomaswong.1986 says

are you justifying the terrorist crimes based on someone from 20 years ago ?

Westboro Baptist Church is quite active today. I gave that as an example of a Christian leader who advocates death for gay people. I did not justify any crimes. Not sure what you're talking about.

P N Dr Lo R says

Where is there any indication he was a Christian? He wasn't a member of the church. Why isn't it possible he was just a nut off the street high on something? Why couldn't he have been an angry atheist, which is just as likely?

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=9083398

St. Jude Thaddeus' pastor, the Rev. John Daniel, said Capener's mother was "very active" in the parish and serves as a Eucharistic minister there.

I think it's highly likely he's a Christian.

socal2 says

Why do people try to lump the other peaceful faiths with the dysfunction of Islam?

You are exhibiting confirmation bias. The vast majority of the world's 2 billion Muslims are peaceful people. You have already decided that their religion is "dysfunctional", and so any time you hear of a Muslim who is not peaceful, you believe it proves your belief.

But as I have shown here, I can just as easily point to Christians who are not peaceful. By the same unreasonable standard you set for Islam, I could "prove" that Christianity is "dysfunctional".

Reductio ad absurdum.

LOL, this is too funny. Posters arguing over which pile of shit stinks the most.

socal2 says

Did you see the latest Pew Poll of the Muslim Arab world? It is utterly depressing. Keep in mind they didn't even poll the 3 most Islamist countries (Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Iran).

For instance, almost 90% of Egyptians believe they should execute Muslims who leave the faith. Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Palestine are not far behind

This is utter bullshit, and you are a liar. Why are you quoting a second-hand source, and why are you cherry-picking only the bad parts of the survey? It does NOT say 90% of Egyptians favor executing those who leave the faith. And why cherry-pick that particular group when the overall response was pretty much the opposite?:

http://www.pewforum.org/Muslim/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec.aspx

The survey – which involved more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages with Muslims across Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa – shows that Muslims tend to be most comfortable with using sharia in the domestic sphere, to settle family or property disputes. In most countries surveyed, there is considerably less support for severe punishments, such as cutting off the hands of thieves or executing people who convert from Islam to another faith

Think of it this way: There are a lot of Christians who believe the Bible should be the law of the land in the U.S. But if you asked them individually if they would be in favor of sentencing adulterers to death by stoning, most would probably say no, even though the Bible clearly prescribes that punishment.

And why do you focus on the more radical views of a minority of Muslims, and leave out the positive responses in the survey, such as:

At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths....

Many favor democracy over authoritarian rule, believe that humans and other living things have evolved over time and say they personally enjoy Western movies, music and television – even though most think Western popular culture undermines public morality....

Few U.S. Muslims voice support for suicide bombing or other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam; 81% say such acts are never justified, while fewer than one-in-ten say violence against civilians either is often justified (1%) or is sometimes justified (7%) to defend Islam. Around the world, most Muslims also reject suicide bombing and other attacks against civilians....

In most countries where a question about so-called “honor” killings was asked, majorities of Muslims say such killings are never justified....