patrick.net

The gender pay gap has always been bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/EwogDPh-Sow

If you want women to earn as much as men overall, then force women to enter the same fields as men, work as long as men, and not have children or take time off to raise children. Then women will have the same income as men and be utterly miserable.

Life is about choices, and it should be no surprise that men and women make different choices when it comes to the trade-off between work and life. Ultimately, every person has the right and responsibility to make his or her own choices and fuck what everybody else thinks. If women want more life and less work and are willing to take the financial hit for the free time and opportunities outside labor, then who the hell has the right to insist that they don't?

By the same token, don't bitch and moan that doctors make more than teachers. It a fucking hell of a lot tougher and more time consuming becoming a doctor than becoming a teacher. And time is life. How much of your life are you willing to forfeit for financial gain? Again, only each individual has the right to make that choice for himself or herself.

Ultimately a society that penalizes people for choosing parenthood in some capacity (and married men are also penalized if their wives are penalized by taking time off or not promoted for having kids) is destined for self destruction. It is really rather perverse if you think about it.

In the US woman have passed men in attaining higher education degrees. In a world with technology that will continue to displace physical labor, the future looks bright for woman and pay.

Everyone wants equality of results, not equality of work put in. Just look at all the government workers warming the chairs, sitting on their asses all day, doing the bare minimum. That's what America turned into for ya all!

Yep, Coal Mining, Garbage Collection, etc. is almost exclusively male.

There are far more female Upper Management types proportionally than Coal Miners. Or Oil Roustabouts. Or Line Workers.

More female English Lit MA's in Coal Mining, so they can see how easy White Rural Redneck Working Class Men have it because --- PATRIARCHY!!1111!!ONE!!ELEVENTY!

I'm pretty sure that women who are strippers earn way more then men who are. Same goes for porn stars.

dublin hillz says

Ultimately a society that penalizes people for choosing parenthood in some capacity (and married men are also penalized if their wives are penalized by taking time off or not promoted for having kids) is destined for self destruction. It is really rather perverse if you think about it.

Filled out an income tax form lately???

dublin hillz says

Ultimately a society that penalizes people for choosing parenthood in some capacity (and married men are also penalized if their wives are penalized by taking time off or not promoted for having kids) is destined for self destruction. It is really rather perverse if you think about it.

Society does not penalize people for choosing parenthood. Hell, our society unjustly punishes single and childless people.

Nature instills costs on becoming a parent. It takes time, effort, and resources to raise a child. These costs are the direct result of having a child and have nothing to do with "society".

A person who chooses to become a parent despite these costs has no entitlement that society pays for these costs at the expense of other people. Every person's life is a highly limited amount of time in existence. To steal some of that time, some of that life from one person to offset the cost of another person's life choices is morally and ethically wrong regardless of whether that choice is to become a parent or a crack addict.

There is absolutely no nobility in becoming a parent. If you want to become a parent, then fine, but that is your choice and your obligation, and you are doing it because you want to, not because society somehow benefits when you add another person to an already overpopulated planet. Society should not encourage reproduction at this point in our history. If anything, society should encourage restraint.

Quite frankly, I think it is utterly arrogant for any person to have a child without being financially prepared and willing to make the sacrifices (monetary, career, social, leisure, etc.) required by the role. And to demand that others compensate parents for having a child by giving up some of other people's salary or benefits to transfer to the parents is both selfish and egotistical. Unless the choice of whether or not you become a parent is socialized, the expense of your child shall not be socialized either. If I have to pay for your kid, I get to decide whether or not you have one, and I have damn high standards for parenthood.

rooemoore says

In the US woman have passed men in attaining higher education degrees. In a world with technology that will continue to displace physical labor, the future looks bright for woman and pay

And if only college was a complete joke, that would mean something. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for every person being highly educated. I just don't think education and college have anything to do with each other anymore. Couple that with the fact that half the degrees out there are worthless, and you can't reasonably expect that there will be a strong correlation between the ratio of men to women with college degrees and the ratio of their aggregated incomes.

However, it is true that as work becomes more intellectual and less physical, income should increase for both genders and equalize. On the other hand, outsourcing mitigates that greatly. Because of outsourcing, I'm not so sure the future is bright for developed-nation workers at all.

FortWayne says

Everyone wants equality of results, not equality of work put in. Just look at all the government workers warming the chairs, sitting on their asses all day, doing the bare minimum. That's what America turned into for ya all!

I would say that neither the equality of results nor the equality of effort should be the goal of a just economic system. I have no problem with
- the person who wants to work 80 hours a week and make $200k/yr doing so
- the person who wants to work 20 hours a week and make $50k/yr doing so

I have no problem with any person making any decision about where he wants to pivot his work/life balance. For some people, a high income is a pursuit of happiness. For others, time spent with family, friends, nature, alone, etc. is a pursuit of happiness. This choice is personal and should not be coerced by law.

The true goal of a just economic system is that the income a person receives is proportional to what they produce and is as close to 100% of what they produce as possible when subtracting for just taxes (i.e. taxes for just government spending), reasonable corporate profit-taking, minimal overhead, and entropy.

If a person is a genius who actually produced $200k/yr worth of wealth while working only 10 hours a week, then I have no problem with him taking home $190k/yr before taxes, if any. It's the assholes producing only $30k/yr who insist on $50k/yr incomes or, worse still, the mega-assholes producing negative wealth and taking in tens of millions in income.

thunderlips11 says

Yep, Coal Mining, Garbage Collection, etc. is almost exclusively male.

Yep, and that's not because of sexism. It's because men have to work. For women, it is still largely a choice. No one chooses to become a garbage collector or coal miner. You do these things if that's what you have to do to survive.

thunderlips11 says

More female English Lit MA's in Coal Mining, so they can see how easy White Rural Redneck Working Class Men have it because --- PATRIARCHY!!1111!!ONE!!ELEVENTY!

Yep, those women studies classes sure do filter out a lot of facts they don't like.

zzyzzx says

I'm pretty sure that women who are strippers earn way more then men who are. Same goes for porn stars.

True, but that is sexism. Women are considered far more valuable sexual assets than men even when reproduction isn't even an option. Female models make 50 times the income of male models. Yet, zero pseudo-feminist outrage.

rooemoore says

Okay, so the future is not bright for either gender thanks to the nerds and the geeks.

Don't blame the nerds. Blame the capitalists.

Geeks use technology to make the world a better place. Capitalists use it to concentrate capital. Get rid of all the capitalists and we'll be fine.

FortWayne says

just look at all the government workers warming the chairs, sitting on their asses all day, doing the bare minimum. That's what America turned into for ya all!

There are a lot of government workers who work much harder than you ever have, who resent this kind of bullshit.

humanity says

FortWayne says

just look at all the government workers warming the chairs, sitting on their asses all day, doing the bare minimum. That's what America turned into for ya all!

There are a lot of government workers who work much harder than you ever have, who resent this kind of bullshit.

They are in a minority. And that's not hard to see, just walk into any government office these days. While the rest of them... are practically on welfare, just know how to warm their chairs and occasionally pound their chest demanding equality and hand outs.

FortWayne says

While the rest of them... are practically on welfare, just know how to warm their chairs and occasionally pound their chest demanding equality and hand outs.

Such made up lies. MAybe you could show some evidence ?

You might have missed it, but all governments are in tough financial times for at least the last 5 years. You don't think they've tightened up and had layoffs, and one person doing jobs that used to be done by 2 ?

You're free to lie and make up all the bullshit you want. But the only ones that will respect you are the slimiest of the Fox news, hate radio semi-retard crowd.

IF working for the government is such a great gig, why don't you do it ?

Is it because you have too much integrity, to steal from the taxpayers like that ?

I'm guessing maybe you tried to become a fireman, and couldn't get it ? IT is one of the most sought after govt jobs. And they do sit around a lot.

Yeah that's probably it. You are the kind of guy that wishes he could sit around and be lazy, rather than being productive. That's why you're always accusing others of having that kind of work ethic.

In your world, I guess being productive isn't satisfying, and being a leach off of the state adds to a person's dignity and feeling of self worth.

In this day and age for Obama to pass that stupid law demanding equal pay is just silly. Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina and many other women have clawed their way to the top. If they can do it-so can any other woman. Stop complaining like a drunk loser in the bar who talks like as though if only given the proper opportunity-he would be the next Bill gates.

These kind of stupid laws make women a joke. It is like passing a law giving the drunk losers the right to be paid the same as Bill gates. CA has two women senators for ever-should men be asking for equal representation and sue?

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

If a woman wants a high paying gig, all she has to do is appear next to the car of a CEO in the parking lot and offer to suck his dick, same as a guy.

Unless they hate Freedom.

Dudes can offer that to. I think a lot of CEOs would accept it from either team, especially if they close their eyes.

This thread reminds me of Congress. A bunch of dudes debating women's issues. (And posting "data" that women are dumber than men.) Geez

If you are a dude and you think the women around you make more, then ask for a raise. If you are a woman and think they guys around you are making more, ask for a raise. If you don't get it, the suck it up or move on to greener pastures. If enough people move on, the company will be out of business...

If you notice, that same female groups that gripe about mid-aged, rich white male tech nerds are almost uniformly composed of mid-aged, well off white women liberal arts majoring bookworms.

"Our homogenous group demands your homogenous group become more heterogenuous. But you aren't allowed to comment on our behavior. Only Us, to you"

I'll care more about the gap of female Upper Management when the number of female coal miners exceeds even just 5%.

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zzyzzx says

dublin hillz says

Ultimately a society that penalizes people for choosing parenthood in some capacity (and married men are also penalized if their wives are penalized by taking time off or not promoted for having kids) is destined for self destruction. It is really rather perverse if you think about it.

Filled out an income tax form lately???

The tax credit that one gets for a dependant and credit for childcare expenses pale in comparison with projected costs of raising a kid these dayz.

Gee, just ask your typical fox in her string bikini if she would trade the advantages of her most favored status of sexual extortion, to become sexless, and be given the ground level privilege of fighting and competing her way into financial/material/status/power supremacy.

My guess is she would just jump at the opportunity every time.

humanity says

Women can learn how to use excel, and all the other basic skills for presenting and analyzing data, and they are often well suited for liaison type work, bridging the gap between different groups within an organization or working in a communication role with key outside interests.

OMG, is that how far down the standards have fallen? "Using Excel" may have been considered a tech skill in 1988, but it's like saying you know how to walk without falling today.

And "communication role"? Good communication skills is not a career, it's what expected of every single person regardless of their job, even if that job is janitor. What company is going to pay you a high salary because "you know how to talk"? There is no "communication role". Communication is simply part of your job just like breathing is. You don't get extra points for it.

Absolutely Relevant to this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/1FPFUrXbQgc