patrick.net

CL says

wondered what you guys thought? :)

Gosh, I just don't know.

I look forward to hearing the opinion of this forum on realtors. No real idea what sort of responses you'll get.

With car salesmen, there's no illusion: they represent the dealership, and are your adversary. Wear a raincoat to protect your clothing from the slime which will be oozed all over you. It's even clear legally that they're not your friend.

Realtors, however, do not represent the party they legally represent, because they represent nobody but themselves. Plus, they don't know, and don't care to know, anything about real estate or the market. What they are expert in is back-door dealing with other realtors, collusion, and getting any contract signed which will get them the money.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

I look forward to hearing the opinion of this forum on realtors. No real idea what sort of responses you'll get.

I do.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

DIE, REALTOR FUCKS, FUCKING DIE!

That! :)

They are salesmen. Have you ever known honest salesmen?

Realtors of course in a free market would not exist because if you clearly saw the fees you were paying you'd object.

Information about prices is the secret information that car dealers don't wish people to know. However, smart guys are finding out online the exact dealer costs for cars. Today you can let several dealers bid *against each other* for your business to buy a car. This is how it should be, a free market with the consumer having knowledge.

In real estate there is still an archaic outdated system to fleece the house buyer of $10,000 in fees and commissions just to buy a house.

Mutual funds are another example. Previously all mutual funds carried a commission, or "sales load" of up to 5.75%.
However, if you were buying this product, you generally made money on this purchase over time, so people becoming rich over time would not complain too much. They received planning services in exchange for this commission.

But people had decided that they didn't want to pay this 5.75% sales fee, and now most funds are "no load". Even Fidelity previously sold funds with a sales load but eventually people figured out they could buy similar funds with no fee.

Realtors are like most salesmen, they are interested in the transaction taking place to make money. The transaction may or may not be a good deal for the consumer. The consumer must be careful always and not confuse the arrangement.

This topic is SO inefficient. It's so much easier to list why Realtors AREN'T bad.

For example:

Ceffer says

This topic is SO inefficient. It's so much easier to list why Realtors AREN'T bad.

For example:

We can list the ways they add value: To wit:

CL says

What would you tell a friend who thinks Realtors add value?

How many other Commission based sales people would say...

"There are higher other multiple bids being offered, so make
yours even higher to assure you get it."

Walk onto any Auto dealer and they treat you better than a realtor.
At least they are dealing with you, here and now, and not trying to compete with
other fictitious buyers which dont exist to inflate the prices and their commission.

Dan8267 says

Have you ever known honest salesmen?

Lots and lots in Business to Business transactions... there is a big difference
when dealing with a rep from IBM, HP, GE or other F500 company.
Your whole career hinges on honest representation...

One slip up and your fired or even worst...

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

Have you ever known honest salesmen?

Lots and lots in Business to Business transactions...

One slip up and your fired or even worst...

Does not apply to business to consumer sales involving non-repeat customers as in the real estate business.

Yes, the key to morality is the twin pillars of empathy and reciprocity. This is why science, not religion, is effective at advancing morality.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Realtors, however, do not represent the party they legally represent, because they represent nobody but themselves. Plus, they don't know, and don't care to know, anything about real estate or the market. What they are expert in is back-door dealing with other realtors, collusion, and getting any contract signed which will get them the money.

One of the biggest problems is that realtors don't have a real fiduciary duty to you. The lack of duty is even more important when one agency is a dual agent -- i.e. one realtor from that agency is a buying agent and another is a selling agent. Lawyers are not allowed to do this on related matters because it'd be a breach of ethical obligations, and there are burdens to representing adverse parties even when the matters are clearly unrelated and there is no conflict of interest.

In a dual agency situation, you should know damn well that your agent is sharing your confidential information with the other side in order to make the deal. Both agents only get paid if the deal happens, so their interest is in making it happen.

In addition, most agents I've run across seem to have little value in the things they are supposed to be experts in -- e.g. the overall real estate market, elements and features of a house, things about the neighborhood, etc. When I ask real questions that are material to purchasing the house, most realtors try to dodge the question because they don't know. It's very rare that they are honest or open. I've only ever had one real estate agent tell me it was a bad time to buy, and that was the guy I'd probably hire.

If you think about it -- there are other experts that are much cheaper to higher than someone who gets a percentage of the transaction, even though their value has no relation to the value of the transaction. You can hire a lawyer to do the paperwork, you typically hire an inspector, you can check out the neighborhood yourself at various times of the day and week and meet some of the neighbors to confirm, etc.

No doubt, there are some realtors that add value, but most of them suck.

Realtors are just plain evil! They encourage you to step in the water before they release the ravening crocodiles to gnaw your (financial) bones.
Car salesmen are the Diet Coke of evil. Just one calorie, not evil enough!

corntrollio says

If you think about it -- there are other experts that are much cheaper to higher than someone who gets a percentage of the transaction, even though their value has no relation to the value of the transaction. You can hire a lawyer to do the paperwork, you typically hire an inspector, you can check out the neighborhood yourself at various times of the day and week and meet some of the neighbors to confirm, etc.

Thats how typical business does when they are a client for buying/leasing property. NO Realtor BS Talk... the consumer side is so ladden with fraud.

corntrollio says

In addition, most agents I've run across seem to have little value in the things they are supposed to be experts in -- e.g. the overall real estate market, elements and features of a house, things about the neighborhood, etc. When I ask real questions that are material to purchasing the house, most realtors try to dodge the question because they don't know. It's very rare that they are honest or open. I've only ever had one real estate agent tell me it was a bad time to buy, and that was the guy I'd probably hire.

Back when I was first learning all there is to know about Real Estate here at Patnet, I was touring the houses for sale in the SFBA. I don't think a single Realtor knew as much as I did about any of it, and what I knew was very little.

Pick up a fucking trade magazine every once in a while!

A realtor, an auto salesman, and a monkey walk into a bar. They each order their own drinks. The bartender returns after the drinks are empty and asks "Do you want another?" The realtor and auto salesman immediately say "Yes", but the monkey pauses. He takes out his phone and makes a call. After some chatter, the monkey ends the call and looks at the bartender. "These two people on my left are after my money. I am in need of a car and a house and they have been following me around for days now." Apparently, a good portion of my savings will be sent to them because I am only a monkey and obviously not smart enough to know what I want. I just checked with my uncle who manages my savings, and, unfortunately, I am now broke, so I will pass on another".

Moral of the story: Don't be a monkey's uncle when realtors and auto sales people are in town.

/?p=1227424

Q. What do you get when you stab a Realtor 30 times?
A. An erection, and over 30 places to stick it.

Q. What does a Realtor look like in a microwave?
A. I don't know. I was too busy masturbating.

Q. What's the difference between a dead Realtor and a rock?
A. You can't skullfuck a rock through the eyesocket.

Q. Whats worse then finding a dead Realtor in your bed in the morning?
A. Realizing that you had sex with it the night before.

Q. What's the difference between a Cadillac and a pile of dead Realtors?
A. I don't have a Cadillac in my garage.

Q. What is the worst part about killing a Realtor?
A. Getting blood on your clown suit.

Q. How do you make a dead Realtor float?
A. Take your foot off of it's head.

Having bought my home without a real estate agent, I can say in hindsight that they CAN add value.

I spent countless hours negotiating with the seller, not to mention following up on issues that arose during the due diligent process before closing. It took a certain level of persistence to make the deal happen at all.

In hindsight, f I could have paid someone a nominal fee, it may have been worth it. That said, I couldn't trust someone to handle the negotiations in the same way I would have - so I went it alone.

Ceffer says

This topic is SO inefficient. It's so much easier to list why Realtors AREN'T bad.

For example:

Now that's funny!

EastCoastBubbleBoy says

Having bought my home without a real estate agent, I can say in hindsight that they CAN add value.

I spent countless hours negotiating with the seller, not following up on issues that arose during the due diligent process before closing. It took a certain level of persistence to make the deal happen at all.

In hindsight, f I could have paid someone a nominal fee, it may have been worth it. That said, I couldn't trust someone to handle the negotiations in the same way I would have - so I went it alone.

Yes, you did and did you low ball your offer saving a ton of money?

Yes there is a difference there !

Realtors are like little lambs compared to banksters.

Heraclitusstudent says

Realtors are like little lambs compared to banksters

I agree. If we all know they are salespeople that work for their own self interest and act accordingly--then I don't see the big problem.

The real problem, IMO, is the monopoly the MLS gives them.....

Look at the VERY REVEALING real asset price histories that are kept out of sight!
http://www.showrealhist.com/yTRIAL.html
The whole financial sector is bad, AND they have bought allies: journalism, higher education, holders of elected office.
It's a democracy -- blame yourselves, people, for your citizenshit.

The funniest thing I ever heard come out of a Realtor's month, that he represents my best interests. He was a so called Buyer Agent. Add to that it costs the buyer nothing to use a buyer agent. "The seller pays my commission!"

Ceffer says

This topic is SO inefficient. It's so much easier to list why Realtors AREN'T bad.

For example:

That's a lot.

CL says

My friend (who's in auto sales) is defending their commission-based wages. I compared it to Realtors, who he promptly defended. I told him that Realtors are parasites but wondered what you guys thought? :)

What would you tell a friend who thinks Realtors add value?

There is honor among thieves.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

have a head start on queuing up to sell important services like licking the toilets clean, or licking the floors and windows clean, for a tip.

Do you think realtors are more likely to take it up the poopenschaft than other members of the population?

corntrollio says

Do you think realtors are more likely to take it up the poopenschaft than other members of the population?

No..their "clients" are!

ttsmyf says

Look at the VERY REVEALING real asset price histories that are kept out of sight!

http://www.showrealhist.com/yTRIAL.html

The whole financial sector is bad, AND they have bought allies: journalism, higher education, holders of elected office.

It's a democracy -- blame yourselves, people, for your citizenshit.

Hey dude, I really appreciate what you're doing, but I think you may be schizophrenic.

corntrollio says

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

have a head start on queuing up to sell important services like licking the toilets clean, or licking the floors and windows clean, for a tip.

Do you think realtors are more likely to take it up the poopenschaft than other members of the population?

If it gets them the sale, why not?

EastCoastBubbleBoy says

Having bought my home without a real estate agent, I can say in hindsight that they CAN add value.

The issue isn't whether or not they add value to the sale price. It's pure speculation as to whether they could inflate the sales price of a home that's already been sold - but they would have to raise the sales price enough to cover their commission plus extra for pain & suffering.

Realtors believe that they are necessary to the sale of a house - and they're not. Even if they take over the negotiations, the seller & buyer still have to deal with the minutiae. The title company, appraiser, loan officers, etc are necessary. Realtors are bad actors who add drama but no value to the production.

A realtor is the Lindsay Lohan of the real estate production.

elliemae says

EastCoastBubbleBoy says

Having bought my home without a real estate agent, I can say in hindsight that they CAN add value.

The issue isn't whether or not they add value to the sale price. It's pure speculation as to whether they could inflate the sales price of a home that's already been sold - but they would have to raise the sales price enough to cover their commission plus extra for pain & suffering.

Realtors believe that they are necessary to the sale of a house - and they're not. Even if they take over the negotiations, the seller & buyer still have to deal with the minutiae. The title company, appraiser, loan officers, etc are necessary. Realtors are bad actors who add drama but no value to the production.

A realtor is the Lindsay Lohan of the real estate production.

On a 200k house sale, a realtor is making what, 6k?

The title company makes something like, 1500?

What the fuck does the title conpany do that makes them worth their exhorbitant fees

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

errc says

What the fuck does the title conpany do that makes them worth their exhorbitant fees

They pay a paralegal $5 to do a half-assed title search which a substantial fraction of the time omits crap that could cloud the title.

Mostly they have a guaranteed space in the gang bang queue in our glorious PRISON RAPE ECONOMY.

AIN'T NO ECONOMY
LIKE A PRISON GANG RAPE ECONOMY
CUZ A PRISON GANG RAPE ECONOMY DON'T STOP

elliemae says

Realtors believe that they are necessary to the sale of a house - and they're not.

How has the "industry" managed to keep the 6-7% clip? Collusion and regulatory capture?

Wouldn't an industry subject to capitalism have found someone willing to take 5% to get a larger share of the market by now?

And are Mortgage brokers as worthless as realtors?

CL says

elliemae says

Realtors believe that they are necessary to the sale of a house - and they're not.

How has the "industry" managed to keep the 6-7% clip? Collusion and regulatory capture?

Wouldn't an industry subject to capitalism have found someone willing to take 5% to get a larger share of the market by now?

And are Mortgage brokers as worthless as realtors?

Maybe. If this were a capitalist society

errc says

Maybe. If this were a capitalist society

How did my brokerage fees go down for equities? How do the price of other goods and services get determined.

Id' say we are pretty capitalistic, but the Realtors have managed to keep it at bay.

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Mortgage brokers have one job - instruct the borrowers on how to lie on a mortgage application so they can get a commission.

Do they at least get the client a lower rate?

Pretty capitalistic relative to what?

People don't even know what capital is. Some confuse land as capital, lol

errc says

The title company makes something like, 1500?

What the fuck does the title conpany do that makes them worth their exhorbitant fees

It's not really what the title company does now, but what the title company did several years ago. They went through the property records to determine chain of title a while ago. Now, they offer insurance based on that research.

Nonetheless, there is likely market failure here because the existing companies are likely entrenched into what is an inefficient property recording system in the modern world. They are able to make out-sized profits due to these inefficiencies.

As a counterpoint, if you didn't have title insurance, you'd probably have to spend 5 grand on a lawyer to sort out chain of title, but again that's because the recording system is inefficient.