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Discuss Anything

By Patrick following x   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 356,192 views   453 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Patrick.net is an anonymous forum. I hope to make it pleasant to use while still maintaining everyone's right to speak and to draw a following for their ideas. I especially want to people to have a place to politely say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

Moderation policy:

If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, your comments and posts are very welcome here. Mean-spirited comments will be deleted. That's the whole moderation policy.

I often get requests to block "bad" people from the site, but don't believe that anyone is entirely bad or entirely good, only that the amount of each fluctuates over time.

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

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https://patrick.net/post/1282720/2015-07-11-ten-reasons-it-s-a-terrible-time-to-buy-an-expensive-house
https://patrick.net/post/1282721/2015-07-11-eight-groups-who-lie-about-the-housing-market
https://patrick.net/post/1282722/2015-07-11-37-bogus-arguments-about-housing


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262   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 8:45am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
can we please eliminate this functionality? noone should be able to edit YOUR pat.net experience. If someone wants to mute their own experience, thats completely different. However, muting someone else's ability to view pat/net posts will destroy users ability to follow conversations and drive them from the site. We are down to a core 50... you dont want 25 of those 50 never seeing what the other 25 are discussing, unless you dont want discussions.


@Patrick, I agree. Aphroman blocking mods is him defacto circumventing the system to he can continue ad hom attacks on people.
263   Onvacation   ignore (3)   2018 Jul 11, 9:08am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
bitter Trumpublicans have run off most all opposing viewpoints

I think at least a few left because they could no longer belittle and abuse other posters.
264   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 9:23am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
@Patrick, I agree. Aphroman blocking mods is him defacto circumventing the system to he can continue ad hom attacks on people.


Or maybe he got tired of reading all the strawman arguments from the mods.
265   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 9:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
I think at least a few left because they could no longer belittle and abuse other posters.



Yes, some people get pleasure out of that. Don't want them around.
266   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2018 Jul 11, 9:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
@Patrick, I agree. Aphroman blocking mods is him defacto circumventing the system to he can continue ad hom attacks on people.


Patrick says
Onvacation says
I think at least a few left because they could no longer belittle and abuse other posters.



Yes, some people get pleasure out of that. Don't want them around.


Yet, you allowed Aphroman sign on with a completely new screen name/profile (and deleted his old one, which led the pack with comments in Comment Jail), only so he could continue his ad hom attacks under this new profile?

What's up with that?
267   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 10:44am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Yet, you allowed Aphroman sign on with a completely new screen name/profile (and deleted his old one, which led the pack with comments in Comment Jail), only so he could continue his ad hom attacks under this new profile?

What's up with that?


Can someone quote some of these supposed ad hom attacks from Aphro?
268   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yep--nobody left because they couldn't ad hom. They left because pat.net became a place where free speech was no longer welcome unless you are on the right team.
269   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 11, 1:10pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.
270   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


How is saying someone has a disease not a personal comment? TDS should not be allowed as it is a personal attack how is this not obvious?
271   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Yep--nobody left because they couldn't ad hom. They left because pat.net became a place where free speech was no longer welcome unless you are on the right team.
they left because having moderators only on 1 team is really not moderation at all.
272   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:22pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
MrMagic says
Yet, you allowed Aphroman sign on with a completely new screen name/profile (and deleted his old one, which led the pack with comments in Comment Jail), only so he could continue his ad hom attacks under this new profile?

What's up with that?


Can someone quote some of these supposed ad hom attacks from Aphro?
should have comment jail again and have mods reinstate messages after personal attacks have been corrected.
273   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 11, 1:23pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
The Right is batshit crazy, and they’re antithetical to everything America was founded on. It’s pathetic


I applaud you for critiquing a group rather than an individual.

Regarding your critique, who is the "right"? This is an honest question. Do you just mean R's? Or anyone who voted for Trump? Both of those groups? Right vs left has lost all meaning. Its just R's vs D's now, both pathetic groups.

Lose the R vD mindset and join libertarians like the cool kids
274   Onvacation   ignore (3)   2018 Jul 11, 1:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
they left because having moderators only on 1 team is really not moderation at all.

And that is the problem: teams.
I am not a republican. And I am certainly not a democrat. What team am I on?
If people would stick to the topic we could have a civil debate but the trolls and sockpuppets cant compete against facts so they attack anyone not on their "team" .
275   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 2:18pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


Pretty much. Not to mention the most vile, racist comments were levied by those crying "free speech!"
276   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 2:52pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


Nope--that's bullshit. It was ironman that caused the ad hom ban. He's on the Trump bandwagon.

Things were fine with banning ad homs. People didn't leave until Patrick chose to outsource moderation to one team.
277   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 2:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says

Pretty much. Not to mention the most vile, racist comments were levied by those crying "free speech!"


Nope--the most vile were Ironman. Without question.

Although there is an extremely racist post title currently active on the home screen. But the author is on the right team so it's no problem.
278   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 11, 2:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I had my posts deleted. But I just learned to not adhom instead of taking it personally and quitting.

RafiMaas says
LeonDurham says
Yep--nobody left because they couldn't ad hom. They left because pat.net became a place where free speech was no longer welcome unless you are on the right team.
they left because having moderators only on 1 team is really not moderation at all.
279   d6rB   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 3:12pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Although there is an extremely racist post title currently active on the home screen. But the author is on the right team so it's no problem.


If you mean Hey N... police your own, the author is HEYYOU and he is on no teams other than his own
280   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 3:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


Pretty much. Not to mention the most vile, racist comments were levied by those crying "free speech!"


Hey moderators, is saying someone has a disease a personal attack or not? Avoiding the question?
281   d6rB   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 3:40pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Lol Libertarians are indistinguishable from Republicans

Feel free to prove me wrong

282   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 4:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayne says
I had my posts deleted. But I just learned to not adhom instead of taking it personally and quitting.


Exactly. That's my point. Nobody left because of the adhom rules. They left because of the outsourced moderators obvious bias.
283   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 4:17pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
If you mean Hey N... police your own, the author is HEYYOU and he is on no teams other than his own


You're right. My mistake--I was thinking it was a different author.
284   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2018 Jul 11, 7:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
@Patrick why are you censoring my posts again? What is the excuse this time?


Isn't that the same issue as with your last profile here?

Some things never change.

Aphroman says
Rogue moderator coward with an axe to grind again?


Hmmmmm......
285   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 12, 1:04am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Lol Libertarians are indistinguishable from Republicans


McCain = HRC = Obama = Bush

Rand Paul is a totally different breed.

You still haven't answered the question of who is right vs left. Are you just talking about R's vs D's? Go ask George HW Bush who his scion R family all voted for in 2016 POTUS election. Then come back and tell us what right vs left means.
286   d6rB   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 12, 6:25am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Being that the issue is deeply rooted in racism, as Paul says, why is it important to ignore such an obvious fact?

Does pretending it doesn’t exist help somehow?

1. The fact that stupid drug war influences minorities more does not mean that currently it is rooted in racism. It was (initially, at least for MJ-but not necessarily for other drugs), but now the prohibition machine is crushing everyone who is poor, as minorities are poorer, they suffer more. Cause here is not race, it is economics. I am sure Hollywood and Washington are snorting coke like crazy yet poor guy is going to jail.

2. RP is R in name only as his voting record shows, and he run as Prez from Libertarian party many times. His voting record and views shows that L's are different from R's. Too bad R's redristricted him out of his district. Kind of similar to what D's did to Kucinich and Sanders.
287   PeopleUnited   ignore (2)   2018 Aug 9, 7:14pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
Aphroman says
Being that the issue is deeply rooted in racism, as Paul says, why is it important to ignore such an obvious fact?

Does pretending it doesn’t exist help somehow?

1. The fact that stupid drug war influences minorities more does not mean that currently it is rooted in racism. It was (initially, at least for MJ-but not necessarily for other drugs), but now the prohibition machine is crushing everyone who is poor, as minorities are poorer, they suffer more. Cause here is not race, it is economics. I am sure Hollywood and Washington are snorting coke like crazy yet poor guy is going to jail.

2. RP is R in name only as his voting record shows, and he run as Prez from Libertarian party many times. His voting record and views shows that L's are different from R's. Too bad R's redristricted him out of his district. Kind of similar to what D's did to Kucinich and Sanders.


Don't you think the primary reason for prohibition is that certain people will lose a lot of money if drugs were cheap, and legal? There are other reasons of course, for example making drugs illegal will theoretically make it harder to do stupid things like overdose and do crimes while under the influence both of which are a burden borne by those who have no involvement in the drug trade, competing legal drugs, or law enforcement.
288   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 9, 7:45pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I do think the primary reason for prohibition of marijuana was and is money. Keeping it illegal keeps prisons profitably full and prevents competition with alcohol interests.

It also provides a windfall to police though civil forfeiture:

Yet strong institutional forces have kept nearly every law enforcement professional association opposed to reform. Starting with the Reagan administration, police departments were encouraged to seize and sell property associated with drug busts, which significantly augmented their revenue. Between 2002 and 2012, law enforcement agencies collected about $1 billion from marijuana arrests, according to Justice Department data.


https://www.thenation.com/article/anti-pot-lobbys-big-bankroll/
289   WillPowers   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 20, 10:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Liberal media outlet: Politico, in an article dated 11/21/2013 shows how Obama, who did the same thing Trump is doing now, revoking national security clearances for national security reasons, was not shamed by the press for doing so:

https://mojomorning.blogspot.com/2018/08/media-war...
290   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 21, 10:38pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
especially pharmaceuticals, because cannabis is such an inexpensive and effective medicine.


You know they have to test drugs before they are used as medicine right? Go ahead and share you conspiracy theory though. Which major medication will marijuana replace?

Aphroman says
If you listen to what the Prohibitionist actually say, their main reason is to terrorize blacks and disempower the liberals


Link? I cant wait to read your "support" for this statement.
291   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 22, 6:46am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
Go ahead and share you conspiracy theory though. Which major medication will marijuana replace?


I'm not sure of big time medical treatments that will benefit people. Like curing a cancer or something. But off the top of my head, Tylenol, Advil, etc would take a beating for sure. Can't remember the exact compound in the plant, but weed with higher % of CBD I believe has a pain relieving effect. I stopped in CO last month to load up (not usually an active consumer - maybe 20 days a year) on pot supplies. I had some back pain, knew I was going to be doing some hiking and got some edibles with high level of CBD.

Result, worked substantially better then any pain killer I've taken. And I don't have to worry about my stomach bleeding or liver because I might have a drink or two at night. It would turn the pain killer market upside-down overnight. And that's a massive profit center for pharma because it leads to the perception that a pill will solve all your problems. It's a gateway.

And I'm not saying there aren't good drugs out there that help people with some fucked up shit, pharma does have it's place. I just know from first hand experience, with basic pain, certain varieties of pot help. My old man has cancer and has been on it now for about 4 months. He's a different person. The pain had been bothering him and now he's more like him old self. When you're in pain you're more likely to be agitated, angry, etc. That's gone with him now.

Obviously not some massive study by any means ;) , but pot does have it's place. Just wiping out the pain killer market would have a massive upheaval on the pharma industry. They don't want that as it would piss of shareholders pretty good.
292   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Aug 29, 3:02pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
If you listen to what the Prohibitionist actually say, their main reason is to terrorize blacks and disempower the liberals


Yeah, White Supremacists pushed for tough sentences for drug dealers.

293   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 29, 3:08pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Just wiping out the pain killer market would have a massive upheaval on the pharma industry.


If it cant relieve pain w/o making you high then it's a specialty use pain killer, not the twice/day pill that tylenol or aspirin can be. Also what about sports or just being able to give it to a kid in school?

Then theres cost. Can this marijuana extract be given for a few pennies per dose?
294   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2018 Aug 29, 6:20pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Liberals tend to rewrite history to fit their own narrative.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Aphroman says
If you listen to what the Prohibitionist actually say, their main reason is to terrorize blacks and disempower the liberals


Yeah, White Supremacists pushed for tough sentences for drug dealers.

295   curious2   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 29, 6:51pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayne says
Liberals tend to rewrite history to fit their own narrative.


Some people who call themselves "liberal" or "conservative" or "libertarian" do that, but it is neither a liberal nor conservative nor libertarian thing to do. You have repeatedly done that regarding Rome among other topics.
296   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 29, 7:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
Can this marijuana extract be given for a few pennies per dose?


Yes it can. The stuff is ridiculously cheap to make.
297   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 31, 4:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
Also what about sports or just being able to give it to a kid in school?


The NFLPA has been trying for a while now to get it off the banned substance list. So if America's favorite sport and athletes are wanting it, I don't think sports is an issue. While playing the game, sure I suppose it could have a detrimental effect. But you can't assume what they're taking anyway isn't detrimental to game day performance either.

The kids in school is a bit problematic, I'll agree there. I'd say it shouldn't be used as a pain reliever for minor things in a school setting. But if a kid has something serious, then sure, let them take it. There are varieties that don't get you nearly as high as what people would think. And if you actually NEED it daily, then you do build up a tolerance to the high.

If pain levels are that bad, it's likely that you're taking prescription anyway. And I presume you've read those labels on prescriptions. Wouldn't want my kid taking that shit, say after an appendicitis or gall bladder removal.

I'm not some hippy dippy, holistic guru guy either, but weed does work from personal experience. And other older folks I know who swore the stuff was the devil, gateway, etc. used it now at 60+ and swear by it. Believe me, before I tried it for pain reasons I thought the same thing, people just wanting to get high. Getting high isn't bad though either. Rather have stoned people walking around in public versus drunks if that's the most concerning side effect with no other physical, health damaging side effects. Get stoned and helps with pain.

I consume maybe 20 times a year roughly, when in states where legal. Mostly for recreation. So I'm not some pothead with an agenda to get high all the time without legal consequences.
298   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 31, 5:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
There are varieties that don't get you nearly as high as what people would think. And if you actually NEED it daily, then you do build up a tolerance to the high.


Cant they remove the "high" and leave the medicine?

My god if they could remove the "munchies" and perhaps the "stupid" from the high, it would be the perfect recreational drug.
299   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Aug 31, 5:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
people just wanting to get high. Getting high isn't bad though either.


If you are a chronic cancer patient, getting high could be therapeutic. At least it takes your mind off your tragedy for a while. Any extreme pain and getting high is half the solution, like a morphine drip from a man w a missing leg.

I'm just saying I dont see the conspiracy to keep it down for money reasons... or perhaps there are negative monetary reasons for some corporations, but many other see huge $$$. This isnt some corporations vs the small man situation. Phillip Morris could make more than anyone if marijuana is legalized. https://hightimes.com/news/tobacco-companies-investing-cannabis/
300   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Aug 31, 6:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
I'm just saying I dont see the conspiracy to keep it down for money reasons... or perhaps there are negative monetary reasons for some corporations, but many other see huge $$$. This isnt some corporations vs the small man situation. Phillip Morris could make more than anyone if marijuana is legalized. https://hightimes.com/news/tobacco-companies-investing-cannabis/


I understand this sentiment and get most people will go for commercial products if it were legalized. And new huge corps will spring out of nowhere as well. So I'm not arguing the big guys vs little guy point. There's massive money to be made because revenue from 1 acre is probably the equivalent of 500 acres of corn or soybeans (might be even more, just guessing).

Knowing our government though, they'll still probably make it illegal to grow a plant in your back yard if it was legalized. But IF growing was allowed, it's essentially free if you smoke it and minimal cost to make your own edibles. No one gets a cut in that market and that's the problem with allowing legal cannabis. Two plants can yield more then even the most potty of pots head could consume in a year. Nobody is making money off what's grown in your back yard and that's where there's a problem. If it reduces 10-15% of OTC and prescription pain killers, then it's going to impact things bigly.

And don't get me wrong, 80-90% of the customers, if it became legal, would be recreational users. But they're using it anyway and pot laws are very rarely ever enforced in non-legal states if you're out and about. So not much changes tomorrow if it becomes legal outside of new companies being born and new tax revenue that is just going to criminals now. Seems like a win win to me.

CBOEtrader says
My god if they could remove the "munchies" and perhaps the "stupid" from the high, it would be the perfect recreational drug.


I don't know, I can live with those side effects. Versus other prescription drugs out there? It's like getting a cut (Cannabis) versus being stabbed with a sword (oxy for example). Opioid pain killers legit do part of what's in the title, kill. Weed doesn't.
301   mell   ignore (1)   2018 Aug 31, 6:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
When you say “get high”, what do you think you mean? The euphoric feeling? Generally there’s not much impairment with cannabis consumption.


If you take an edible cookie say with 1/8 as serving and eat half of it, most people will either trip hard, pass out sleeping or throw up, or any combination thereof. Depending on the dosage impairment is significant. Less so when smoking as it is easier to titrate, but similar to alcohol you have a cumulative effect if you smoke too much too fast. It's all about dosage, in moderation alcohol is good for you, similar for cannabis. It should not be stronger regulated than alcohol.

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