patrick.net

Rin says

Since I didn't grow, with this female, then what's the point? I believe that ppl need to grow together through their formative years. This whole meeting someone, after everything is said and done, makes no sense to me. Those soldiers, who'd spent their nights in the trenches, know who their comrades are because they'd faced artillery and machine gun fire together. These persons become lifelong friends, as a result of their experiences. Since I'd done these X years w/o meaningful emotional support from a long term GF or wife, then what's my incentive for the future?

I agree with this premise. It's important for a successful marriage for both people to be in the "trenches" from the beginning and have those bonding experiences.

tr6 says

I agree with this premise. It's important for a successful marriage for both people to be in the "trenches" from the beginning and have those bonding experiences.

Finally, someone who gets my point.

And thus, what mainstreamers believe, which is love/soulmate/blah/blah, some Hollywood movie claptrap, is a bunch of nonsense.

Fleeting emotions are not the basis for a successful, long term union, esp in this day and age.

Speaking of mainstreamers, I do know of one mainstreamer, who advocates against marriage.

He's in his seventies and is still married to his 2nd wife. He's got a good relationship with his adult kids but can barely stand his wife. And he likes to spend his free time teaching, volunteering for his dioceses, and other things. It's not like he mopes around the house, bickering.

He's the only person who'd openly told me, "Rin, don't ever get married. You'll never any peace of mind, once you do. The sex part will fade within a few years and then, it's like having an annoying roommate who never goes away."

Aside from him, everyone else utters the 'power of positive thinking' claptrap.

I'm kind of surprised you've been so successful in your financial life. You have the conformity / willingness to brown-nose, and willingness to work hard part down. But optimism and desire to grow seem to be in short supply.

I don't agree that you have to grow together when you are younger to be happy and successful. You do have to grow together as adults. If you start growing in different directions, it's probably game over.

YesYNot says

But optimism and desire to grow seem to be in short supply.

I see that in a lot of folks who refuse to accept reality and live in the clouds.

lostand confused says

So if you are married to say Rin for the last ten years. The woman made no contribution to his financial success and like the typical LA wives I saw in the affluent areas-shopped, rode horses, went on vacations, had nannies for the kids and bitched and moaned about their husbands being so busy- suddenly decide they are done . By law they get half and on top of that you have to pay alimony etc etc etc. I mean if one wants to be an equal-you enjoyed the perks when you were together-now get off your ass and get a job and make sound choices. You don't want that, then live on welfare like the other 300 pound freaks. Why should one be forced to turn over millions just because ethey shared a bed together.

That's one way to look at it.
An other way is the lady have kids, works her tail off at home, invests her time in kids education, gives up her career or puts it on a slow track.

After 10 years she's has spent her youth, reproductive capacity and career options on Rin, then he dumps her for a young chick, and leaves her with kids, no revenues, very few career paths, and even less dating options. I'd say it's fair he pays up.

Now of course if you're working while your wife is shopping, something is wrong with you. You need to have a serious discussion with your wife. You have 10 yrs to see it coming.

YesYNot says

I'm kind of surprised you've been so successful in your financial life. You have the conformity / willingness to brown-nose, and willingness to work hard part down. But optimism and desire to grow seem to be in short supply.

Being successful in finance is about a combination of being shrewd and being lucky. If I wasn't so lucky, what I'd do instead, like a lot of other ppl, is attend medical school. And that's a function of one's MCAT score, not optimism, though you have to fake optimism during one's admissions' interviews.

As for how ppl grow, here's a bit of a blue print ...

On the whole, women do not grow, after the age of 30. For the most part, whatever patterns/behaviors they've instilled from ages 15 to 25, start to calcify during their early 30s.

On the other hand, certain men do make a huge leap forward, from ages 30 to 40, so that when you meet 'em at 45, they seem like a totally different person than their 29 year old self. Typically, this isn't the case and like a lot of women, men too also crystallize but closer to their mid than early 30s.

lostand confused says

I see that in a lot of folks who refuse to accept reality and live in the clouds.

And that's just my point. Outside this forum (where we can all let it hang out), I have to pretend to agree with them, so that I'm invited to soclal gatherings and such.

Rin says

errc says

Why do you waste so much time and energy over what society thinks?

I couldnt care less what anyone thinks

Very simple, I'd like to be able to attend a social gathering and tell ppl, I don't give a rat's *ss about dating.

Instead, to be sanguine with the crowd, because obviously I don't want to come off as combative or some misfit/misanthrope, I say things like, "Oh yeah, I'm meeting up with someone in Hartford, We'll see how it goes" and so-forth, basically a white lie to blend in.

So you care what people are thinking because you care what people are thinking?
That's one huge part of your problem.
That's why you think it's a question of society: because you are stuck with this society and you care way too much what people think.
All these constraints are what prevents you to operate based on true human needs.
You need to let this go before anything else.

Rin says

Is it my duty to create, half-white/half-Filipino offsprings to maintain my lineage?

If you don't like filipino go for Brazil - or Kyrgyzstan for that matter.
I'm just pointing out that being stuck on US women mentality is a limited argument.

Rin says

Those soldiers, who'd spent their nights in the trenches, know who their comrades are because they'd faced artillery and machine gun fire together.

Have a couple of babies and you'll spend enough nights in the trenches to make you feel like best comrades ever.

Rin says

Fleeting emotions are not the basis for a successful, long term union, esp in this day and age.

You're absolutely right about that. It's not for love, and it's not for pleasure.

Heraclitusstudent says

An other way is the lady have kids, works her tail off at home, invests her time in kids education, gives up her career or puts it on a slow track.

Personal choices. meg Whitman had kids, a career and reached the pinnacle of success and is more successful than the vast majority of men. Step up and take responsibility.

Heraclitusstudent says

So you care what people are thinking because you care what people are thinking?

Hello, do you know the difference between being a hermit and having a normal social life? A hermit is a misanthrope who rails against everyone he meets and soon, he's playing computer chess by himself. On the other hand, a social person attends parties, goes to shows, etc, etc. In other words, he's an congenial person, however, on the inside, he doesn't exactly agree with the majority p.o.v. It's like a Buddhist, attending an Anglican mass. If he tells 'em that the concept of J.C. as savior is false, more likely than not, he won't be invited to those masses anymore.

Heraclitusstudent says

Have a couple of babies and you'll spend enough nights in the trenches to make you feel like best comrades ever.

Isn't this putting the horse before the carriage? First, one needs a successful marriage and then, have kids. BTW, that seventy year old guy I'd mentioned, stopped having sex with his wife, after the first kid. So much for the World War I analogy, he's never at the VFW with the spouse.

Heraclitusstudent says

If you don't like filipino go for Brazil - or Kyrgyzstan for that matter.

I'm just pointing out that being stuck on US women mentality is a limited argument.

So again, in order to have a real relationship, one needs to first, be an ex-pat, and then partially assimilate into a different society, so that one can properly communicate with one's spouse without the relationship being a bunch of American-isms.

So far, I'd known exactly one person, who'd done that successfully in the Philippines. Most others, wear their Uncle Sam stripes and yes, in time, it puts a strain on the relationship and the kids get confused by the cultural disjunctions. So being abroad doesn't put a muzzle on divorce either. Plus, if you want to do the Islamic thing, since you'd mentioned Central Asia, where Muslim women follow their husbands, you also have to convert.

Rin says

Most others, wear their Uncle Sam stripes and yes, in time, it puts a strain on the relationship and the kids get confused by the cultural disjunctions. So being abroad doesn't put a muzzle on divorce either.

Here's an example, I know a Singaporean-American couple and they have a daughter. The girl hates herself for being part-Chinese and not fully white. Do you get the picture?

There is a huge straw man in the room. Rin and some others put forth the idea of a woman who shops and screws off all day while he works. He could date a professional woman (doctor, lawyer, etc., not prostitute) too if he lost the crappy misogynistic attitude. He'd have to be wary of gold diggers considering he has a nest egg, but that is not too difficult.

Rin says

He could date a professional woman (doctor, lawyer, etc., not prostitute) too if he lost the crappy misogynistic attitude.

Read my piece on the age of 29 and the fact that women, on the whole, don't change much, upon hitting 30.

And what makes you think that those professional women aren't a bunch of control freaks either? The expression, *my money is my money and your money is my money*, is more common than you think.

An easier solution, would be for the rules to change and that in an equal society-each person is responsible for their life choices and once people part ways-nobody owes anybody anything. That will force people to think long term. That will also successful people to take risks.

Also children-whoever is financially able can take care of the kids-the state does not get to dictate how I raise my kids.

lostand confused says

An easier solution, would be for the rules to change and that in an equal society-each person is responsible for their life choices and once people part ways-nobody owes anybody anything. That will force people to think long term. That will also successful people to take risks.

For me, I really don't care what society wants to do anymore.

After I get my package and finish medical school, I'll start doing my own research, and relocate to Australia.

There, I'll have affiliations with local universities and institutes, while boning hoes, once a week, for the rest of my life.

Rin says

For me, I really don't care what society wants to do anymore.

After I get my package and finish medical school, I'll start doing my own research, and relocate to Australia.

There, I'll have affiliations with local universities and institutes, while boning hoes, once a week, for the rest of my life.

I suspect that what will happen, during the my 40s/50s, is that a slew of my friends will probably be ending their marriages.

Then, esp if they have a work-from-home arrangement, they can visit me Down Under, stay at my place for a month or two, and we can go out, and bones hoes together. I'll be like the good olde days, but w/o the live Celtics games. I have a feeling that they'll like that lifestyle over what was their failed marriage.

Rin says

Read my piece on the age of 29 and the fact that women, on the whole, don't change much, upon hitting 30.

And what makes you think that those professional women aren't a bunch of control freaks either? The expression, *my money is my money and your money is my money*, is more common than you think.

I read your hypothesis on women changing after 30, and don't think you have much data regarding that. Even if you are right, you could go find a 25 yr old, or find a 30 yr old who shares many of the same thoughts, hobbies, and goals as you. You don't have to go through the formative years together so much as find someone who is sympatico and start growing together. When people get much older, they stop changing, and perhaps get more like themselves as they stop trying to mask their personality.

I don't really understand your complaint about professional women. Are they more likely to be control freaks then successful men? If you don't want a control freak, find a laid back professional woman. They are out there.

My wife and I have our own money pools and a shared pool. What would be considered hers on divorce is a matter of state law and a prenup. It's not too hard to figure that out, though. I'm pretty sure that most states assume that the money made during marriage is joint property. However, the money made before marriage or inherited does not become joint property unless it is commingled. If you want to spell that out, then see a lawyer and get a prenup.

YesYNot says

If you want to spell that out, then see a lawyer and get a prenup.

Prenups can and do get tossed. Then there is out sized child support-with some folks shelling out 150k a month. it should be the other way around, where you want something in the event of a divorce, you sign a prenup. Else you get nothing. Child support should be only if one parent cannot take care of the child.

Rin says

Heraclitusstudent says

So you care what people are thinking because you care what people are thinking?

Hello, do you know the difference between being a hermit and having a normal social life? A hermit is a misanthrope who rails against everyone he meets and soon, he's playing computer chess by himself. On the other hand, a social person attends parties, goes to shows, etc, etc. In other words, he's an congenial person, however, on the inside, he doesn't exactly agree with the majority p.o.v. It's like a Buddhist, attending an Anglican mass. If he tells 'em that the concept of J.C. as savior is false, more likely than not, he won't be invited to those masses anymore.

You lost the thread of the discussion. I was certainly not proposing to be a hermit.
In fact, you are more of a hermit now: living alone and without any real human relationship that are not based either on monetary transactions (hoes) or lies (social parties where you lie to people about who you are).

Such "parties" are a parody of being social. Being social is having friends who really know you and appreciate you that way.

Let this go, then you'll be more lucid.

Rin says

So again, in order to have a real relationship, one needs to first, be an ex-pat, and then partially assimilate into a different society, so that one can properly communicate with one's spouse without the relationship being a bunch of American-isms.

Or bring her to the US.
All this to say that the world is opened.
There are more possibilities than you consider in your rants.
You're just mentally stuck in one way of thinking.

lostand confused says

Personal choices. meg Whitman had kids, a career and reached the pinnacle of success and is more successful than the vast majority of men. Step up and take responsibility.

Meg Whitman is hardly representative of what the average woman can do.
You think it's about women (having a vagina, etc...) but this is really about kids: Women are cursed with motherhood, the time spent on this, etc...

lostand confused says

Prenups can and do get tossed. Then there is out sized child support-with some folks shelling out 150k a month.

Yes.

YesYNot says

Even if you are right, you could go find a 25 yr old, or find a 30 yr old who shares many of the same thoughts, hobbies, and goals as you.

For one, I'm planning on retiring in Australia. A big part of that visa process is being financially independent. Thus, I'll be forced to co-sponsor my spouse and then, by law, I owe her.

And finally, I've developed all of my hobbies alone or with male friends. The only thing I do with women are candlelight dinners and dancing.

And then, when I'm in Australia, unless I wanted to turn my retirement visa into a green card, why would I even marry a local Aussie gal? The culture is practically the same as America, minus baseball and American football.

Heraclitusstudent says

Or bring her to the US.

All this to say that the world is opened.

There are more possibilities than you consider in your rants.

You're just mentally stuck in one way of thinking.

Unless you marry a Catholic Filipina, who'll stick with practically anyone & don't believe in divorce, bringing a woman into America is not a great idea. So far, I'm yet to hear of a successful Russian women/American guy success story in my region. The success stories are mainly about ppl with similar backgrounds like both Iranian Shias.

Heraclitusstudent says

Being social is having friends who really know you and appreciate you that way.

This is the part that you don't get ... if you're a Buddhist, you can be friends with Anglicans. And vice versa. But you don't go into an Anglican church and tell ppl that Jesus is not a real savior but some historic character in literature.

Are you really that dense?

Rin says

Heraclitusstudent says

Being social is having friends who really know you and appreciate you that way.

I have friends who're married and miserable. Do I remind 'em of that, every time I meet them? No, I let them talk about their misery, when they feel it's appropriate.

Heraclitusstudent says

Meg Whitman is hardly representative of what the average woman can do.

You think it's about women (having a vagina, etc...) but this is really about kids: Women are cursed with motherhood, the time spent on this, etc...

Excuses, excuse. In every company I worked, I know plenty of women who make more than their male partners, have kids and made it to different levels of management. One thing I noticed in all the success stories-men/women-is that they never give excuses. It is the same with men-you will find a big subset, who don't mount to much-but will have a boatload of excuses. You want some whine with that toast?

Now if a man/woman is dead broke and happy-more power to him/her. But if you think you should be equal to so and so , but xyz-oh well.

Heraclitusstudent is so lame that he thinks that my friends are all fake, if I don't continually trash talk relationships and marriage around them.

For the life of me, why can't you see that the desperate person here is you? You don't understand the meaning of appropriate behavior.

Rin says

I say things like, "Oh yeah, I'm meeting up with someone in Hartford, We'll see how it goes" and so-forth, basically a white lie to blend in.

Rin says

if you're a Buddhist, you can be friends with Anglicans. And vice versa. But you don't go into an Anglican church and tell ppl that Jesus is not a real savior but some historic character in literature.

Sounds like you're more like the Buddhist going into an Anglican church, telling them you're Anglican, and attending service too.
You don't want to go live in the woods wearing nothing but loin cloth and a yellow robe, like a good Buddhist would do.

lostand confused says

Excuses, excuse. In every company I worked, I know plenty of women who make more than their male partners, have kids and made it to different levels of management. One thing I noticed in all the success stories-men/women-is that they never give excuses. It is the same with men-you will find a big subset, who don't mount to much-but will have a boatload of excuses. You want some whine with that toast?

You're suggesting women should be doing the same as men. I don't share this premise. I think they should take the larger share of kids care.
If they do it right, it will make a success story in a corporate environment a lot more rare.

Heraclitusstudent says

Sounds like you're more like the Buddhist going into an Anglican church, telling them you're Anglican, and attending service too.

You don't want to go live in the woods wearing nothing but loin cloth and a yellow robe, like a good Buddhist would do.

Very simple, I don't want 'em trying to set me up with someone, whenever possible. When you show yourself as a needy person, that's how concerned ppl respond, with pity and then, extending their hand. As for Hartford, I did go there but I'd met with a platonic friend from school.

And then, there are ppl, who don't ask about those private matters, as well.

So, you see, that's how one can be a Buddhist and attend Anglican mass, smile, and not get ppl into the whole *conversion* conversation piece. Am I making sense here? Or do you tell everyone ... that you're lonely and will they fix you up with a soulmate, every single time you meet up with them? If so, then you'll go from friend to acquaintance, very fast.

Rin says

Or do you tell everyone ... that you're lonely and will they fix you up with a soulmate, every single time you meet up with them? If so, then you'll go from friend to acquaintance, very fast.

You know these days people are ok with all sorts of things.
Some people say they're gay. You could just say you're not ready for a serious relationship.
If they put you in the acquaintance box based on that, then maybe indeed they should be just acquaintances.
Plus I wasn't suggesting you stay lonely. That was your premise.
I think you're just confusing social pressure (in general mostly from women) and actual human needs.
You're bowing to one but rejecting the other. I think it should be the opposite.
But hey... your life.

If your goal is to go to Australia as a financially independent guy, then I'd agree. That would be a tall order finding someone with the same resources and dream.

If all you want a woman for is candlelight dinners and sex, then I'd agree too. Just pay for the whores.

If you want a meaningful relationship with a woman, the only thing standing in your way is your attitude. You may have some other obstacles, but those are probably surmountable.

Heraclitusstudent says

You're suggesting women should be doing the same as men

But aren't we equal?

Heraclitusstudent says

Plus I wasn't suggesting you stay lonely.

Actually, I was implying that you (Heraclitusstudent) were lonely.

For me, I live alone but I'm not lonely.

And the problem is that some ppl, are simply trying too hard to help others, for that other person's betterment w/o realizing that that person really doesn't need it. This is where the Buddhism/Anglicanism analogy comes into play. The Buddhist likes to be friends and/or acquaintances with the Anglican diocese but doesn't necessarily always want to engage in the *conversion* conversation, since ppl do have other things in common besides the theological status of J.C.

And yes, if you (Heraclitusstudent) were to constantly moan/groan about not having a soulmate, every single time you meet up with ppl, then yes, a number of ppl will mark you as an acquaintance because in general, no one likes being around a negative person for too long.

A purpose of PatNet is that it allows us to spout off aspects of us, which are not politically correct in proper society. Do you really think that AF talks about cannibalism around his friends? And as for Dan, I suspect that in public, he doesn't trash religion as much as he does here. Same goes for a lot of other ppl here on their pet peeves.

YesYNot says

If all you want a woman for is candlelight dinners and sex, then I'd agree too. Just pay for the whores.

Yoga partner, also.

Now im confused. I get the staying single and boning hoes, but paying to take them along for a nice candlelight dinner? I thought we were singing the praises of single life here?

errc says

Now im confused. I get the staying single and boning hoes, but paying to take them along for a nice candlelight dinner? I thought we were singing the praises of single life here?

The dining is for the restaurant, its ambiance and staff, not for the woman's company. Haven't you gone to one of those 5 star restaurants where everyone there is a couple? I sometimes get a platonic female friend to go to one in America.

Call it Crazy says

Carry on!! Just remember, we are going to start charging you for these therapy sessions...

Well, aren't you using this forum to figure out how you want a dominatrix affair with Dan and company?

For me, it's to bash society's ideas and to encourage men like Strategist and Ceffer.

Yes he does...SBH is the only internet freak show that can take it in the ass and spit wooden nickles while on sabbatical...

Call it Crazy says

sbh says

LOL Such mindless hypocrisy.

Dude, you really have some serious mental illness.

Heraclitusstudent says

You seem to have unresolved family issues that basically make you scared:

Scared of actually investing real feelings in someone.

Scared of depending on someone.

Scared of having someone depending of you.

Rin, (EDIT: actually, ALL MEN) note this carefully. This is a typical shaming tactic. It goes like this: Not doing what I (==the writer, in this case Heraclitusstudent) want means that you are SCARED. Big Boys (TM) are not SCARED. So MAN UP and do what **I** want, or else you are not a Big Boy. You don't want people to think that you are not a Big Boy, do you?

Man Up == do what *I* want you to do.

justme says

Rin, note this carefully. This is a typical shaming tactic. It goes like this: Not doing what I (==the writer. in this case Heraclitusstudent) want means that you are SCARED. Big Boys (TM) are not SCARED. So MAN UP and do what **I** want, or else you are not a Big Boy. You don't want people to think that you are not a Big Boy, do you?

Man Up == do what *I* want you to do.

I'm aware of shaming tactics, which is why I don't bring up these topics in mainstream society because in effect, it would be the same as looking for a fight. Over time, it's best to let the indoctrinated ones, have their beliefs and walk away.

Since we're on PatNet, I can drop the facade and simply let loose.

Rin says

I'm aware of shaming tactics,

Of course you are, I edited to make that clear.

By the way, anyone remember the 1990s when men were always shamed as being "afraid of commitment"? Well, actually, it was the women that were unwilling to make a commitment. But that did not stop them from trying to use a cheap shaming to campaign to get all those perceived non-committers(*) to perform their supposed duty. Oh, no Ma'm (miss? Ms?), I'm not afraid, I'm a big committed boy, where do I sign?

(*)There had to be a lot of them, right? because otherwise every woman would be in a committed relationship, right? (sarcasm alert for the impaired)