patrick.net

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

One practices Capitalism, the other practices Stupidity. You tell me which is which.

You mean to tell us, one country is run by Liberals?

Worse. Someone like Dan, SBH, Hydro, and Bob put together.

The worst things in the history of the United States...
1. Genocides
2. Slavery
3. Wars founded on lies
4. Carpet bombing of villages
5. Medical experimentation on unsuspecting civilians
6. False evidence used to convict and execute innocent people
7. Segregation
8. Homophobic laws
9. Disregard for the environment
10. Trashing of Constitutional rights including due process

Yet, Strategist and CIC are in favor of all of the above. 'Nuff said.

Dan8267 says

The worst things in the history of the United States...

1. Genocides

2. Slavery

3. Wars founded on lies

4. Carpet bombing of villages

5. Medical experimentation on unsuspecting civilians

6. False evidence used to convict and execute innocent people

7. Segregation

8. Homophobic laws

9. Disregard for the environment

10. Trashing of Constitutional rights including due process

Yet, Strategist and CIC are in favor of all of the above. 'Nuff said.

In other words we are no worse than the rest of the world. :)
Here is why are are better:
1. We fought and died to end slavery.
2. Everything else you mention is illegal and punishable by law.
3. The whole world wants to be American.
Aren't you glad you live in America?

Call it Crazy says

Worse. Someone like Dan, SBH, Hydro, and Bob put together.

Talk about the ultimate circle jerk...

Are you sure you want to explore this line of attack, given the mutual suckfest between you and your zombie shih-tzu Ingenous?

Feminists will just ignore and pretend people like this do not exist. It's much easier to drown in self pity for them and blame others for their own personal failures.

Strategist says

1. We fought and died to end slavery.

Well technically instead of blacks picking cotton, we just have Mexicans cook and do all the jobs we had slaves do. We moved slavery from black to "white south of the border". World is same today as it was years ago, just a little more window dressing.

Strategist says

1. We fought and died to end slavery.

And the Wehrmacht fought to end Nazism, side by side with the Allies!

Strategist says

In other words we are no worse than the rest of the world. :)

Here is why are are better:

1. We fought and died to end slavery.

2. Everything else you mention is illegal and punishable by law.

3. The whole world wants to be American.

Aren't you glad you live in America?

Most countries in the world didn't commit genocide and practice slavery. And a country doesn't get credit for eventually stopping what evil it does.

And liberals fought and died to end slavery while conservatives fought and died to keep it. Everything in the list I gave was done by conservatives and opposed by liberals.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

In other words we are no worse than the rest of the world. :)


Here is why are are better:


1. We fought and died to end slavery.


2. Everything else you mention is illegal and punishable by law.


3. The whole world wants to be American.


Aren't you glad you live in America?

Most countries in the world didn't commit genocide and practice slavery. And a country doesn't get credit for eventually stopping what evil it does.

Are you kidding me? Every region of the earth had slavery and genocide at some point in the past thousands of years.
The Native Indian tribes were always slaughtering each other, and taking women and children as slaves. They were very cruel. Same with Africa, where genocide still goes goes on. Humans are an uncivilized and barbaric species.
What makes USA different was it's willingness to admit a wrong, and it's resolve to end that wrong even at the ultimate price.
You guys are just disgruntled America bashers who unfairly blame America for anything that goes wrong in the world, without giving credit for the right things America has done. When you run out of feeble accusations, you take refuge in the evils of the past that America committed, even though we are a different country today, populated by different people.

Strategist says

Every region of the earth had slavery and genocide at some point in the past thousands of years.

If you vague up the term region enough... Hell, you could define the entire Earth as a single reason and make that claim, but then the claim still doesn't represent the vast majority of the Earth.

My statement was "Most countries in the world didn't commit genocide and practice slavery.". Now you are making a Straw Man argument because you cannot refute the actual argument I made.

Strategist says

What makes USA different was it's willingness to admit a wrong

Actually, people like you are whitewashing history and cheerleading your tribe rather than letting our country learn from its mistakes and not repeat them. Hell, if our society were to learn from its mistakes instead of whitewashing history, there wouldn't even be a marriage equality debate. Everyone would be pro-marriage-equality because they would have learned the mistake of prohibiting interracial marriages and would be familiar with Loving v. Virginia.

Strategist says

you take refuge in the evils of the past that America committed

To say that we have to either lie about our history or we hate America is a false dichotomy. It is not patriotic to lie about your country's history or pretend that it is nobler than it is. The first step to solving any problem is acknowledging its existence. To hinder that is to hinder a solution and that hurts America. White washing history harms America and Americans. It is the most unpatriotic thing you can do.

Again, learn the lessons of history. Early 20th century Europe proved that nationalism is a bad thing. If you want to show your patriotism, stop waving that flag and start volunteering at a soup kitchen or Jimmy Carter's Habitat for Humanity, or support social safety nets that keep families from becoming homeless. That says a hell of a lot more about your commitment to you country than chanting USA.

Strategist says

even though we are a different country today

Bullshit. The free/slave state map and the Obama/Romney election result map are the same damn map after over 150 years! We're still fighting the Civil War, and quite frankly, it's pathetic. Conservatives have yet to admit that they were on the morally bankrupt side of history and so they continue the sins of their ancestors. Again, if we had really changed, the entire marriage equality issue would have been settled in favor of equal rights for all under law. It's been over almost 240 years, and we're still not fulfilling the premise of our revolution and the founding of our country.

And the problem is that people like you keep us from making progress. If conservative scum like you didn't exist, our country would be as good as you like to make it out to be and it would have been that way for 200 years.

You wreck the country every time you support
- suspending Constitutional rights for anyone including terrorists
- any form of inequality under law including anti-gay legislation
- the squeezing of the middle class by the owner class
- the removal of social safety nets and anti-poverty nets
- tax breaks for the richest 1%
- pollution and other environmental destruction
- unnecessary warfare
- militarized police who are not held accountable for their crimes
- the targeting of civilians in war whether directly or as collateral damage
- increasing the unaffordability of health care to maximize corporate profits

In all these things, you conservatives are still on the wrong side of history.

Dan8267 says

Most countries in the world didn't commit genocide and practice slavery

Everyone did at one point or another. Just because you didn't hear about it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Most countries in the world didn't commit genocide and practice slavery

Everyone did at one point or another.

Reference?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

mell says

thunderlips11 says

Look at Christian Holmes IV I just posted

But what does that have to do with Liz Holmes? Sure money can buy an edge in education and get you/your kids into certain jobs, but she certainly didn't become a billionaire because all the nepotists decided to pour money into her company even though they thought it had no merit. She is smart, educated and started a business that benefits everybody.

Mell, She's certainly smart. But she's also backed by big money for the get go. How many 19-year old college kids you know have the money to hire a Standford professor to work for them? Forbes/CNN asserting she's self-made is fundamentally dishonest, IMHO.

Dan8267 says

Reference?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Go read history books beyond 5th grade level... try those things it'll help. When I was younger, I was interested in world history and so I read a lot of those. And every nation had some history where they slaughtered a whole bunch of people in order to claim territory or subdue others in slavery. You just got to read more than just a tag line.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Every region of the earth had slavery and genocide at some point in the past thousands of years.

If you vague up the term region enough... Hell, you could define the entire Earth as a single reason and make that claim, but then the claim still doesn't represent the vast majority of the Earth.

Many countries did not even exist in the past, which is why we have to use "regions" and even "people" when referring to to the past. Many countries that existed in the past no longer exist, but those regions still do. Eg. Troy and Carthage, who committed genocide and had slaves. South Sudan is the most recent country to be formed, but does not absolve it of crimes committed in the past.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

What makes USA different was it's willingness to admit a wrong

Actually, people like you are whitewashing history and cheerleading your tribe rather than letting our country learn from its mistakes and not repeat them. Hell, if our society were to learn from its mistakes instead of whitewashing history, there wouldn't even be a marriage equality debate. Everyone would be pro-marriage-equality because they would have learned the mistake of prohibiting interracial marriages and would be familiar with Loving v. Virginia.

We have no slaves, and our President is Black. Obviously we have learnt from our mistakes. We are still learning and changing, and will continue to do so till the end of time, because societies are always changing. Yet you criticize the country because you are not getting everything you want all at once. Can you name one perfect country?
I think we have not learnt from our mistakes because we don't shoot every terrorist on sight. You, Dan, do not get to unilaterally decide what country we should be.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

you take refuge in the evils of the past that America committed

To say that we have to either lie about our history or we hate America is a false dichotomy. It is not patriotic to lie about your country's history or pretend that it is nobler than it is. The first step to solving any problem is acknowledging its existence. To hinder that is to hinder a solution and that hurts America. White washing history harms America and Americans. It is the most unpatriotic thing you can do.

I agree. Stop focusing on just the negatives. Be objective and look at both, positives and negatives.

Dan8267 says

Again, learn the lessons of history. Early 20th century Europe proved that nationalism is a bad thing. If you want to show your patriotism, stop waving that flag and start volunteering at a soup kitchen or Jimmy Carter's Habitat for Humanity, or support social safety nets that keep families from becoming homeless. That says a hell of a lot more about your commitment to you country than chanting USA.

No thanks. If that's your definition of patriotism, you do it.

Dan8267 says

And the problem is that people like you keep us from making progress. If conservative scum like you didn't exist, our country would be as good as you like to make it out to be and it would have been that way for 200 years.

Stop whining. Again, you don't get to decide what's good for America. We all get to decide that with an equal vote. If you don't like Obama, vote for David Duke.

Dan8267 says

And a country doesn't get credit for eventually stopping what evil it does.

Yep. Claiming credit for NOT doing bad stuff any more is Chris Rock's definition.

Dan8267 says

- suspending Constitutional rights for anyone including terrorists

- any form of inequality under law including anti-gay legislation

- the squeezing of the middle class by the owner class

- the removal of social safety nets and anti-poverty nets

- tax breaks for the richest 1%

- pollution and other environmental destruction

- unnecessary warfare

- militarized police who are not held accountable for their crimes

- the targeting of civilians in war whether directly or as collateral damage

- increasing the unaffordability of health care to maximize corporate profits

And yet it still seems to be the number one destination for people around the world.

Call it Crazy says

!!!!!!!

Needs more exclamation points ...

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

Reference?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Go read history books beyond 5th grade level... try those things it'll help.

Translation: I have no facts to back up my assertion, so I'll just assert that the facts are documented somewhere and hope no one checks.

The United States recognizes 195 sovereign nations. The majority of them have not committed genocide. Go through this list and specify if and when each committed genocide. You'll maybe mark off 40 or so of the states.

Again, you are not entitled to make up facts.

Sorry, Dan. Owning people and forcing them to work for you under horrendous conditions is NOTHING LIKE simply denying religious affirmation to their homosexual perversions. Because that's what gay marriage is really about. It's not enough to have equal rights to form partnerships between two people. It's not enough to have laws forbidding workplace discrimination and ensuring equal treatment. What the gays really want is for the government and the church to declare their unions virtuous and holy. Otherwise they'd be pushing for civil unions to be recognized more widely. Instead, they want to force Christian cake artists to draw two dudes and a dildo on a wedding cake.

thunderlips11 says

Dan8267 says

And a country doesn't get credit for eventually stopping what evil it does.

Yep. Claiming credit for NOT doing bad stuff any more is Chris Rock's definition.

With your logic, Obama gets blamed for American slavery.

Strategist says

Many countries did not even exist in the past, which is why we have to use "regions" and even "people" when referring to to the past.

If we were to count up every tribe, every society in human history, the vast majority committed neither slavery nor genocide. Furthermore, your attempt to condone genocide and slavery in American history because other people did it is a failure. You might as well condone the Holocaust and say that all countries were as bad as Nazi Germany. It's simply not true.

Strategist says

We have no slaves

Not so

Strategist says

and our President is Black.

You do realize that everyone who says "Racism is over, we have a black president" is either an idiot or making fun of idiots who say this.

Plus, slavery is an evil regardless of whether or not it's racially based.

Strategist says

Stop focusing on just the negatives.

Acknowledging past mistakes is not "focusing on just the negative". In fact, the whole purpose of studying history is to learn from the mistakes, not to pat yourself on the back. Unlike you, while I point out the mistakes and evil doings of our history, I do so in order to point America in a better direction that solves the problems we've let grown.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Again, learn the lessons of history. Early 20th century Europe proved that nationalism is a bad thing. If you want to show your patriotism, stop waving that flag and start volunteering at a soup kitchen or Jimmy Carter's Habitat for Humanity, or support social safety nets that keep families from becoming homeless. That says a hell of a lot more about your commitment to you country than chanting USA.

No thanks

And that's the difference between a real patriot and a fake one. Those who wave flags and proclaim that America is the best country in the world are just posers. Real patriots do something to make their country a better place whether its supporting anti-poverty programs, or volunteering their time, or choosing a career that is beneficial to society and doing the best damn job they can. Helping America means helping Americans, like the family on welfare, or the person without health insurance because he or she can't find a job, or the child born into a poor household.

It sure seems like the people who say they love America hate Americans.

Strategist says

Stop whining.

Pointing out your hypocrisy isn't whining. It's truthing. (Yes, I just coined that term.)

thunderlips11 says

Dan8267 says

And a country doesn't get credit for eventually stopping what evil it does.

Yep. Claiming credit for NOT doing bad stuff any more is Chris Rock's definition.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/B0B_ekSrsEk

P N Dr Lo R says

And yet it still seems to be the number one destination for people around the world.

And so was Rome during the heyday of its empire. People go to where the economic activity is, not necessarily where the freedom is. Being the place with the largest number of immigrants does not excuse the atrocities committed by a society.

Just image how much better our society would be if none of those atrocities ever happened.

Call it Crazy says

NOMINATED!!!!!!!

Translation: I got nothing to say, but I love to hear my voice.

Quigley says

Sorry, Dan. Owning people and forcing them to work for you under horrendous conditions is NOTHING LIKE simply denying religious affirmation to their homosexual perversions. Because that's what gay marriage is really about. It's not enough to have equal rights to form partnerships between two people. It's not enough to have laws forbidding workplace discrimination and ensuring equal treatment. What the gays really want is for the government and the church to declare their unions virtuous and holy. Otherwise they'd be pushing for civil unions to be recognized more widely. Instead, they want to force Christian cake artists to draw two dudes and a dildo on a wedding cake.

Wow, you really don't know shit about the marriage equality movement.

A civil union is not an equal to marriage under law. If it were, the state would just declare same-sex marriages as recognized marriages or it would replace the term marriage with the term civil union in the tens of thousands of laws using that term.

Hell, we could pass a Constitutional Amendment declaring all laws and policies of the state (fed, state, local) to be immediately invalid. Then leave it up to the federal, state, and local government to write new laws that use the term civil union. But that's never going to happen because the chaos that would ensue is to great for our governments to handle.

Right now, gay married couples are taxed more than single. It is tax fraud to check marry on your 1040 if you are gay-married, even if that marriage is legally recognized by your state. So yes, it's about equality under law, not recognition from some stupid church.

Strategist says

With your logic, Obama gets blamed for American slavery.

Please, walk me through that logic.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

With your logic, Obama gets blamed for American slavery.

Please, walk me through that logic.

If you blame America, you must blame Americans. If you blame Americans, you must blame the number one American - The President.

Dan8267 says

P N Dr Lo R says

And yet it still seems to be the number one destination for people around the world.

And so was Rome during the heyday of its empire. People go to where the economic activity is, not necessarily where the freedom is. Being the place with the largest number of immigrants does not excuse the atrocities committed by a society.

Just image how much better our society would be if none of those atrocities ever happened.

Our society would have been the same. What cavemen did in the past, and how many women they dragged into the caves is irrelevant.

Strategist says

If you blame America, you must blame Americans. If you blame Americans, you must blame the number one American - The President.

A perfect example of the fallacy Guilt by Association applied twice. Now that I pointed this out, can you see how you are wrong or do you require me to hold your hand and walk through this?

Also, one cannot blame an abstract concept for problems made by individuals even if those individuals are working in some collective.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

If you blame America, you must blame Americans. If you blame Americans, you must blame the number one American - The President.

A perfect example of the fallacy Guilt by Association applied twice. Now that I pointed this out, can you see how you are wrong or do you require me to hold your hand and walk through this?

Also, one cannot blame an abstract concept for problems made by individuals even if those individuals are working in some collective.

That is exactly what you are doing by blaming Americans of today. If you blame Americans, the President must get blamed first. Simple.

Strategist says

That is exactly what you are doing by blaming Americans of today. If you blame Americans, the President must get blamed first. Simple.

Worst grasp of reasoning ever. Even when his mistake is explained to him, he cannot comprehend where he went wrong.

sbh says

Strategist says

With your logic, Obama gets blamed for American slavery.

The most mindless thing you've ever said.

I object. He has said many more mindless things.

sbh says

Strategist says

With your logic, Obama gets blamed for American slavery.

The most mindless thing you've ever said.

Strategist says

If you blame America, you must blame Americans. If you blame Americans, you must blame the number one American - The President.

Even more mindless than this.

Please explain.

Dan8267 says

sbh says

Strategist says

With your logic, Obama gets blamed for American slavery.

The most mindless thing you've ever said.

I object. He has said many more mindless things.

:) Who do you blame for slavery?

Martin Skrelli is a similar character that got jail time for much less. I say send Elizabeth Holmes to jail for a good long time. Is it too late to prosecute her on criminal charges after SEC has let Holmes off lightly on civil charges??