patrick.net

Heraclitusstudent says

Did you read the discussion?

We are not talking of whether comparative advantage exists in principle.

All I said is: today in trade, "Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills" do not represent a comparative advantage for a country.

To use the example of silicon valley doesn't make sense: as I said 90% of jobs created by Apple are outside the US. Even a large chunk of Apple's profit are outside the US and not coming back. And what is Apple doing? Using commodity technologies that are also used by phone companies in China.

Silicon Valley is just a loin cloth in wild silk that hides how naked the US economy really is. 80% of this country is going down in a big way, and a few rich people in Silicon Valley will not change this.

Heraclitusstudent, our competitive advantage lies in "Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills" not manufacturing. The competitive advantage of China lies in manufacturing. That is why Silicon Valley thrives in California, while manufacturing goes to China, and software development goes to India.
Put the 3 together, and we have a smart phone at dumb phone prices.

Heraclitusstudent says

90% of jobs created by Apple are outside the US.

That doesn't indicate there is no comparative advantage in practice.

Strategist says

Getting goods and services at half price doubles our standard of living.

not when it comes with a trade deficit.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/intinvnewsrelease.htm

and not when distribution of the profits of globalism concentrate at the top.

some goods are radically cheaper now than 2000, yes, but the overall cost of living has not gone down.

as more and more jobs are purged from the paycheck economy, the situation is going to get more dire for more families.

Heraclitusstudent says

their competitive strength is based on their ability to bullshit.

no, Apple's only strength is that they design the whole enchilada in-house.

They don't design every item in the BOM in-house -- they didn't with the Apple series nor with the 1980s Macs -- but they were the system integrator.

Their deal with Microsoft for the BASIC for the Apple II actually hobbled the company, but designing both the OS and the hardware of Macs was how that platform survived the Windows monopoly.

Microsoft's least-common-denominator, backwards compatibility to 1982 enabled it to capture the bottom 90% of the US market, but not the top 10% who appreciated quality and were willing to pay more for it.

No other company other than Apple could have created the iPhone in 2007. Nokia got close, but in systems integration. 80% of the way is failure, because a system is only as strong as its weakest link (and API and graphics performance was horrible on Nokia).

Apple certainly had room for improvement with the iPhone in 2007-2008, but the product was solid across-the-board. Further iterations just give a great impetus for owners to upgrade every year or two, a win-win for Apple and how it got into the Fortune 5 out of nowhere.

Strategist says

in order to achieve what Silicon Valley has achieved, isn't it?

the soviet union was not big on freedom in general. Copy machines were licensed and watched!

this is not an environment conducive to technological innovation.

Strategist says

Countries that practiced communism

To understand communism one must understand how it differed from socialism.

And when you understand the answer to that question, you understand why the Eastern Bloc failed in the late 20th century.

Bellingham Bill says

Strategist says

in order to achieve what Silicon Valley has achieved, isn't it?

the soviet union was not big on freedom in general. Copy machines were licensed and watched!

this is not an environment conducive to technological innovation.

Exactly. When you suppress the freedom to innovate, you get no innovation. Capitalism works.

Our biggest enemy is our lack of morality. Without bible we are doomed

indigenous says

Heraclitusstudent says

90% of jobs created by Apple are outside the US.

That doesn't indicate there is no comparative advantage in practice.

No but it does imply that what Apple does is absolutely not a competitive advantage for the US.

In terms of jobs, it profits other countries more than the US.

Strategist says

Heraclitusstudent, our competitive advantage lies in "Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills" not manufacturing. The competitive advantage of China lies in manufacturing. That is why Silicon Valley thrives in California, while manufacturing goes to China, and software development goes to India.

Put the 3 together, and we have a smart phone at dumb phone prices.

The obvious fact is that most related jobs are not in the US.

It's not even worth talking of SV or technology: 90% workers in US have stagnant wages, or decreasing real wages: for a simple reason: the only competitive advantage they have is price. And the price is converging with wages in countries the US compete with. It's really as simple as that. You can't add a supply of hundreds of millions of slave-like workers in a free-trade system and claim it doesn't affect labor prices everywhere.

Most workers in the US are commodity workers: they don't have Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, or skills. The education system made sure they have no skills, and employers make sure they don't need any, so they can be replaced at will.

The obvious fact is that half the people are desperate for any job of any kind, just to eat, regardless of compensation, let alone benefits. And that's the result of sending good paying jobs in other countries where they are cheaper.

When people don't have revenues, demand goes down. And no demand, no investments. So the gov replaces revenues by debts, leverage, finance, ultra expensive houses, and eventually money printing... an increasingly tattered veil of wealth that doesn't really hide any more the fact that it cannot replace what was lost, and that rampant poverty is spreading.

Silly economists point at Apple, or Google, blah blah blah. They cherry pick statistics that obfuscate the facts. The obvious reality is that this economy, based on free-trade, simply doesn't serve the interests of most Americans.

Strategist says

Capitalism works.

You keep saying that. What does it have to do with this discussion?
Obviously you could have serious barriers from poor countries and still have capitalism, free entreprise, SV, stock market etc...

State Capitalism works. Not one post WW2 'real' non-city state Country has entered the Developed World without Central Planning and Government Directed Investment. Japan, Korea, Taiwan, FDR - all of them got abundant aid and centrally planned their industrial growth.

About half the workforce of China is employed in State Owned Enterprises.

thunderlips11 says

State Capitalism works.

What makes you say that? How can you isolate one from the other?

I'm interested to see you list all those "life saving" drugs. Especially off the top of your head, without using Google.

errc says

I'm interested to see you list all those "life saving" drugs. Especially off the top of your head, without using Google.

Polio, small Pox, Malaria, Interferon, Penicillin, AIDS cocktail, Lasik, Insulin.
And the hundreds of others with long and funny names.

thunderlips11 says

State Capitalism works. Not one post WW2 'real' non-city state Country has entered the Developed World without Central Planning and Government Directed Investment. Japan, Korea, Taiwan, FDR - all of them got abundant aid and centrally planned their industrial growth.

About half the workforce of China is employed in State Owned Enterprises.

LOL. You know Thunder, you have this strange skill (no sarcasm) to state something we know is incorrect right off the bat, but hard to answer.
Ever thought of working for politicians and lawyers?

Strategist says

LOL. You know Thunder, you have this strange skill (no sarcasm) to state something we know is incorrect right off the bat, but hard to answer.

Ever thought of working for politicians and lawyers?

This often means something you thought you "knew" was actually wrong the entire time. And you need to rethink what you previously accepted without question.

Strategist says

errc says

I'm interested to see you list all those "life saving" drugs. Especially off the top of your head, without using Google.

Polio, small Pox, Malaria, Interferon, Penicillin, AIDS cocktail, Lasik, Insulin.

And the hundreds of others with long and funny names.

Pretty cool list. Small pox vaccine was british, chloroquine german, penicillin scottish, insulin german canadian, interferon british/japanese although purified by an american, lasik was greek although the original prk was american using a excimer laser invented in russia, there are numerous aids cocktails most are glaxosmithkline which is british.

I guess this is a big comparative advantage for someone. Not very clear who.

bob2356 says

Polio, small Pox, Malaria, Interferon, Penicillin, AIDS cocktail, Lasik, Insulin.


And the hundreds of others with long and funny names.

Pretty cool list. Small pox vaccine was british, chloroquine german, penicillin scottish, insulin german canadian, interferon british/japanese although purified by an american, lasik was greek although the original prk was american using a excimer laser invented in russia, there are numerous aids cocktails most are glaxosmithkline which is british.

I guess this is a big comparative advantage for someone. Not very clear who.

The advantage is to all those who trade.
No trade, no life saving drugs. Most of us would either be dead or never have been born.

Strategist says

The advantage is to all those who trade.

No trade, no life saving drugs. Most of us would either be dead or never have been born.

Yea sure right. Pretty far off your original point.

Strategist says

The advantage is to all those who trade.

No trade, no life saving drugs. Most of us would either be dead or never have been born.

Yeah... we had to send all jobs to China, or we would be dead already. Nice argument.

indigenous says

thunderlips11 says

State Capitalism works.

What makes you say that? How can you isolate one from the other?

To which Lips answers:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/K8E_zMLCRNg

bob2356 says

Strategist says

The advantage is to all those who trade.


No trade, no life saving drugs. Most of us would either be dead or never have been born.

Yea sure right. Pretty far off your original point.

What difference does it make? both the points are right. :)

Call it Crazy says

Apple is a classic example of Marketing over Product. If you want to succeed in business, make sure you focus your efforts of 80% on Marketing and 20% on Product and the sheep will line up and buy!

Pretty much.

indigenous says

To which Lips answers:

I'm sorry I was away from the board for a few hours. I had to refill the IV next to my computer. Putin is very strict about work hours, and I really need another few cubic meters of nat gas to pay the bills.

Strategist says

LOL. You know Thunder, you have this strange skill (no sarcasm) to state something we know is incorrect right off the bat, but hard to answer.

Ever thought of working for politicians and lawyers?

Now as a Strategist, maybe you should find out if there are any exceptions to my claim.

thunderlips11 says

I'm sorry

agreed

Drunk White Trash Puppy Mill says

FortWayne says

Our biggest enemy is our lack of morality. Without bible we are doomed

LOL. As if the bible is a moral standard. No, without the bible you are doomed, the rest of us, who know it to be a primitive blog with no grasp on reality, will be just fine.

Nice. It took someone who calls himself "Drunk White Trash Puppy Mill" to state some some facts.

"A new objective in the proposed BCTPA would seek to negotiate the prevention and elimination
of government involvement in violations of IPR such as cybertheft or piracy. The enhanced
protection of trade secrets and proprietary information collected by governments in the
furtherance of regulations are contained in the negotiating objective on regulatory coherence."

So in other words if there is Cybertheft no government can intervene??? What is the TPP promoting Cybertheft then?
Is this legal or constitutional?

Montesquie: " This temper in a free nation is extremely proper for disconcerting the projects of tyranny,24 which is always slow and feeble in its commencement, as in the end it is active and lively; which at first only stretches out a hand to assist, and exerts afterwards a multitude of arms to oppress.

Slavery is ever preceded by sleep. But a people who find no rest in any situation, who continually explore every part, and feel nothing but pain, can hardly be lulled to sleep.

Politics is a smooth file, which cuts gradually, and attains its end by a slow progression. Now the people of whom we have been speaking are incapable of bearing the delays, the details, and the coolness of negotiations: in these they are more unlikely to succeed than any other nation; hence they are apt to lose by treaties what they obtain by their arms."

Entitlemented says

Montesquie: " This temper in a free nation is extremely proper for disconcerting the projects of tyranny

Oh it really does no good to anyone to quote Montesquieu. Why not Tocqueville?

Call it Crazy says

Apple is a classic example of Marketing over Product. If you want to succeed in business, make sure you focus your efforts of 80% on Marketing and 20% on Product and the sheep will line up and buy!

Disagreed. Design over marketing.

Heraclitusstudent says

Yeah... we had to send all jobs to China, or we would be dead already. Nice argument.

Got the impression that Americans don't want those jobs and factories because of pollution. USA is already the number one culprit in terms of CO2 emission per capita. The kind of factories we want are those fully automated kind which don't employ many people.

hanera says

Heraclitusstudent says

Yeah... we had to send all jobs to China, or we would be dead already. Nice argument.

Got the impression that Americans don't want those jobs and factories because of pollution. USA is already the number one culprit in terms of CO2 emission per capita. The kind of factories we want are those fully automated kind which don't employ many people.

Businesses don't want to deal with the crap of unions, OSHA, Workmens comp and government bureaucracy especially in California.
Consumers don't want pollution, and high prices.

Strategist says

Businesses don't want to deal with the crap of unions, OSHA, Workmens comp and government bureaucracy especially in California.

Consumers don't want pollution, and high prices.

Yes, they prefer to employ slave labor that they can exploit. Which is why OSHA, workmans comp, and government is needed.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Businesses don't want to deal with the crap of unions, OSHA, Workmens comp and government bureaucracy especially in California.


Consumers don't want pollution, and high prices.

Yes, they prefer to employ slave labor that they can exploit. Which is why OSHA, workmans comp, and government is needed.

Ok, but the harsh OSHA rules seem to be exploiting businesses. Workman's Comp is so expensive because Half the state seems to be on stress disability.
And what about pollution? I ain't breathing that crap.

Strategist says

Ok, but the harsh OSHA rules seem to be exploiting businesses. Workman's Comp is so expensive because Half the state seems to be on stress disability.

And what about pollution? I ain't breathing that crap.

Which OSHA rule is exploiting business exactly? Not sure what you're talking about re: stress disability. Do you have stats on that? And you're not breathing pollution because of government bureaucracy.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Ok, but the harsh OSHA rules seem to be exploiting businesses. Workman's Comp is so expensive because Half the state seems to be on stress disability.


And what about pollution? I ain't breathing that crap.

Which OSHA rule is exploiting business exactly? Not sure what you're talking about re: stress disability. Do you have stats on that? And you're not breathing pollution because of government bureaucracy.

I have some shares in a friends technology based company. They employ 40 to 45 people. They are so fed up with the government hassles, State taxes, Workmens Comps that going to Texas is now a serious consideration. Their expenses would take a dramatic fall, which would all end up in the bottom line. Even their employees would be able to buy homes instead of renting in over priced OC.
California is a dumb state that discourages business, while Texas encourages businesses and growth. I understand we cannot tolerate exploitation, pollution and lack of safety, but the same rules apply to Texas. What are they doing better that we don't?
Are conservatives really better at promoting businesses and prosperity than liberals? I think so.

Eat shit Crazy says

Call it Crazy says

Spoken like a true "isheep"

Well, you would know how sheep talk.

Snap out of it SBH, what the F is wrong with you?

Strategist says

I have some shares in a friends technology based company. They employ 40 to 45 people. They are so fed up with the government hassles, State taxes, Workmens Comps that going to Texas is now a serious consideration. Their expenses would take a dramatic fall, which would all end up in the bottom line. Even their employees would be able to buy homes instead of renting in over priced OC.

No shit. If they didn't have to worry about the safety of their workers, polluting the environment, or paying for the government that enforces the laws and provides the public works that allows the business to exist, they would probably be more profitable.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

I have some shares in a friends technology based company. They employ 40 to 45 people. They are so fed up with the government hassles, State taxes, Workmens Comps that going to Texas is now a serious consideration. Their expenses would take a dramatic fall, which would all end up in the bottom line. Even their employees would be able to buy homes instead of renting in over priced OC.

No shit. If they didn't have to worry about the safety of their workers, polluting the environment, or paying for the government that enforces the laws and provides the public works that allows the business to exist, they would probably be more profitable.

For the last few years a lot of the work is being outsourced to China, which is one reason they are very profitable.
My question to you is .....why is Texas a lot more profitable to a company when they too enforce ...."safety of their workers, polluting the environment, or paying for the government that enforces the laws and provides the public works that allows the business to exist"
Where are us Californians screwing up?

Strategist says

I understand we cannot tolerate exploitation, pollution and lack of safety, but the same rules apply to Texas.

You have interesting beliefs about benzene.

Texas is the biggest industrial polluter in the nation. Shrub dismantled Texas's already-lax pollution controls as governor.

Strategist says

Where are us Californians screwing up?

Because CA creates crushing costs by refusing to build enough housing for its population?