patrick.net

Both parties hate Americans.

60% of H-1Bs are issued for the lowest classification jobs ("Programmer I, Software Engineer I").
http://cis.org/LowSalariesforLowSkills-H1B

The majority of H-1B slots are taken in advance by Consulting Companies who then "Sell on" the H-1Bs to clients, so the company isn't even fulfilling a need. It's a way of getting around employment laws and paying benefits while reducing the salary outlay a bit as well.

There is a glut of STEM workers already. This is the continuing trend of "Kicking the ladder down behind you".

And they wonder why would Americans not get degrees in science, when they can just outsource all the scientists in this country? They sure love beating Americans into poverty.

anonymous says

The Obama administration is helping some high-skilled, foreign workers remain in the country without being tied to their employers. The Department of Homeland Security announced Thursday new rules that would allow certain visa holders to switch jobs more easily while waiting for a green card, The Hill reported.

The idea is to make sure the best brains in the world stay in the US, instead of going back to their own countries. If we can't make our own "brains" because everyone is so damn scared of simple addition, it makes sense we just steal someone else's brains. Do we want to be numero uno or not? If so, we need to cheat.

Sigh -democrats were supposed to be for the ordinary Americans. Then you wonder why trump is so popular.

Strategist says

The idea is to make sure the best brains in the world stay in the US, instead of going back to their own countries. If we can't make our own "brains" because everyone is so damn scared of simple addition, it makes sense we just steal someone else's brains. Do we want to be numero uno or not? If so, we need to cheat.

Yea, there is a serious shortage of people with master's degrees willing to work 90 hours a week for 30k and are fluent hindi speakers. Why can't american workers belly up to the bar for these kinds of jobs. Lazy bastards.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

The idea is to make sure the best brains in the world stay in the US, instead of going back to their own countries. If we can't make our own "brains" because everyone is so damn scared of simple addition, it makes sense we just steal someone else's brains. Do we want to be numero uno or not? If so, we need to cheat.

Yea, there is a serious shortage of people with master's degrees willing to work 90 hours a week for 30k and are fluent hindi speakers. Why can't american workers belly up to the bar for these kinds of jobs. Lazy bastards.

Dan makes 100K+. And he can't even figure out Mac's are better than PC's.

Strategist says

The idea is to make sure the best brains in the world stay in the US, instead of going back to their own countries. If we can't make our own "brains" because everyone is so damn scared of simple addition, it makes sense we just steal someone else's brains. Do we want to be numero uno or not? If so, we need to cheat.

I fail to see how 60% of H-1Bs that are hired as Entry Level Coders and who hold two-year degrees (or bribed the registrar) from "Gupta's Coding School of Mumbai" are the "Best and brightest in the world." Cheaper yes, better, no.

Also, keeping Americans from American jobs means less consumption, equals less sales.

Finally, in the long term, not hiring enough Americans at entry level jobs means eventually no Americans with the skills to take on higher level work. And since many spend their money in India where it goes a lot further, they will return there and start up businesses with their experience to take business away from US Companies and Citizens.

Speaking of high-tech, Maddog McCain is hopping mad that United Launch Allaince got the ban on Russian Built RD-180 Engines for import removed in the latest spending bill. Without it, Atlas V launches would be in Jeopardy.

Orbital Sciences, developing the Antares launch vehicle, is using the RD-191. Russians don't make anything, of course, other than the world's best rocket engines so good that companies owned by Boeing and Lockheed Martin use them exclusively in all their rockets.

It's all Obama's fault!!!
It's part of the Democrat party's war on American workers.

I spoke with an elderly Puerto Rican woman this morning in the grocery store.
She said, she doesn't like Trump but will vote for him in the elections. I told her he'll let the good ones stay.
You know what she told me?
"Listen it's like my daughter tells me, ("You know some PR's are black dark skin while others are white as gringa's like me" she prefaced) My daughter is very dark, like a Black American.
She says she's black on the outside but a red neck on the inside" All her words.
She then said, But we all consider our selves Americans regardless of skin, and don't want foreign invaders.

Last night I spoke to several young guys ages 21 to 31 or so at Mickey Burns at last call at about 4a.m. After we left the Cha-cha-cha parlor.
Half said they were voting for Trump the other half was evenly divided between Rubio and Cruz. One person said he like Sanders to the geers of everyone. While everyone agreed Hillary is a vile disgusting evil character. They all agreed that if Trump gets past the primaries they will vote in the general election for him.

I like glancing over and catching a person with "Liberal Voter" painted all over their face. Writhing in excruciating pain, while all of the anti Liberal talk is going on. And me saying the same shit I've been saying here for the last 7 to 8 years about Obamacare and the Liberals in general. But this time rather than me being met with brainwashed Schoolbots, rebuking my political assesment while picking up a stick and yelling... "Git from here! Go ON GIT!!!" they are all chiming in on the bridge in a perfect pitch 5 part harmony. I get a good feeling out of that. It almost makes shed a tear over how far the kids have come since 2008.

OUR BABBIES ARE ALL GROWED UP!
The Establishment is Eph'd in the "A"!

In a very convoluted way, I suspect Obama thinks that he is helping US workers with these new rules. Basically, by letting the H1B workers out of their indentured servitude, he may be trying to (a) teach the hiring companies that they have to pay more, and (b) that therefore they may as well hire US workers. I doubt it will work.

It is the same sort of faulty thinking that he uses to justify the Trans-Pacific Partnership (the TPP trade agreement proposal): By raising the wages and working conditions, in Vietnam and Thailand etc, Obama thinks he will create jobs in the US. Again, it is very unlikely that this will work as hoped. Enforcement is difficult, and the time delay may be very long, and in the meanwhile, more US industry will go down the tube. I suspect Obama thinks also that IP protections will enable US pharma to protect and enhance their big profits, so that we can become the monopoly pill-supplier to the world. It's an idea, but it is not going to happen the way Obama is planning, Big pharma will screw everyone, and especially the US workers and the US sick in the process.

justme says

In a very convoluted way, I suspect Obama thinks that he is helping US workers with these new rules. Basically, by letting the H1B workers out of their indentured servitude, he may be trying to (a) teach the hiring companies that they have to pay more, and (b) that therefore they may as well hire US workers. I doubt it will work.

Nah, I think he is doing his best so he can get his 300k/hr speaking fees from his corporate masters.

zzyzzx says

It's part of the Democrat party's war on American workers.

Both parties have been waging a war on American workers. Republicans have more experience in the war and are more effective though. Obama really should come out of the closet and call himself a Republican. He is one in everything except name.

I have a solution to this. We let any tech worker from China or India immigrate to the U.S. and immediately become a U.S. citizen. There is no quota on the numbers, but here's the catch. For every tech worker that comes over to fulfill our "desperate need for skilled STEM workers", a person has to leave America and live in China or India as a low-wage factory worker. That person has to also leave all his wealth behind to compensate the STEM workers put out of work or whose wages are lowered as a result of this immigration. And finally, the order in which people are expatriated is in descending wealth order. The richest person in the country is always chosen, stripped of his wealth, and sent to work in the Chinese factory.

Then let us see how desperate the owner class is to import tech workers.

Dan8267 says

Both parties have been waging a war on American workers. Republicans have more experience in the war and are more effective though. Obama really should come out of the closet and call himself a Republican. He is one in everything except name.

Republicans are just up front on this issue - "outsource jobs so it's cheaper for businesses".
Democrats just lie about it - "lets give poor around the world a chance to succeed in America".

Different message, same old shit at the end.

Majority of H1s are used to reduce wages paid for American works. I work as a perma-temp for a major corp in the bay area: last year, my contract was not renewed because TCS was willing to place a candidate for less than $20 dollars of what I was getting paid. So, I went to work in the east bay.

I had a permanent job offer, but declined to take it because i was competing against H1 fulltimers, who are willing to work 60 hours a week. Imagine fighting for bonus, stock refresh in a group dominated by H1s: you are fucked.

raindoctor says

Majority of H1s are used to reduce wages paid for American works.

Yes, 100% is a majority.

raindoctor says

Majority of H1s are used to reduce wages paid for American works. I work as a perma-temp for a major corp in the bay area: last year, my contract was not renewed because TCS was willing to place a candidate for less than $20 dollars of what I was getting paid. So, I went to work in the east bay.

I had a permanent job offer, but declined to take it because i was competing against H1 fulltimers, who are willing to work 60 hours a week. Imagine fighting for bonus, stock refresh in a group dominated by H1s: you are fucked.

What would be a realistic solution?

Strategist says

What would be a realistic solution

Think of it as the movie industry in place as tech. You get major actors like the Hemsworths, Alanis, mel Gibson, Lupita Nyong, Sophia Loren and a wide variety of people from different places who for whatever reason come here and become movie stars. Those are the superstars, the tech talent that can create a lot of income/jobs and nobody will dispute that.

Now think of all the ordinary folks who do the lighting, production work-mundane , menial tasks-no need to use H1Bs for that. The bulk of that is being offshored, but the menial tasks that is needed here is being given to offshoring H1Bs. That is not the intent of the visa.

Now having said that-I am in the if you can't beat them , join them category. Instead of doing tech stuff, I have switched over to managing them and getting work done from a diverse team spread across the globe-yes bulk H1Bs and offshored. I am much happier, instead of worrying about the whole picture, I take care of me. I am in pretty good demand, as in today's worldwide organizations, the ability to get quality work done on time and on budget is very valuable.

Who knows maybe Trump will come and change everything and I will switch my skills again and be the onshoring champion!! Hahaha! But seriously, I have just learned that you can't change what you can't change and if they give yo a lemon , make lemonade. The sad thing is you don't find any loyal employees who care about the company anymore-why would they, when they know they will be fired if they can find another dude from ndia for 10 bucks less than ou?

American RAGE about Immigration and offshoring are what's skewing this current election cycle towards Trump. It almost doesn't matter what he says as long as he stays strong on these core and unrepresented issues. Americans can clearly see *aside from Strategist* that the Dems and Reps are whoring out their jobs to Chindians and Mexicans and any other group that will work for cheap without complaining. Trump is the only one who is addressing this issue in a believable way. Sure, Cruz has jumped on that bandwagon but nobody believes a word he says.
Personally I like Sanders, as a person, and think he has a lot of integrity. But he's totally soft on these core issues, or doesn't see the problem, or wants to teach the world to sing or whatever hippie crap so I can't vote for him either.
I dislike Trump, but these core issues HAVE to be addressed!

lostand confused says

Now having said that-I am in the if you can't beat them , join them category. Instead of doing tech stuff, I have switched over to managing them and getting work done from a diverse team spread across the globe-yes bulk H1Bs and offshored. I am much happier, instead of worrying about the whole picture, I take care of me. I am in pretty good demand, as in today's worldwide organizations, the ability to get quality work done on time and on budget is very valuable.

Who knows maybe Trump will come and change everything and I will switch my skills again and be the onshoring champion!! Hahaha! But seriously, I have just learned that you can't change what you can't change and if they give yo a lemon , make lemonade. The sad thing is you don't find any loyal employees who care about the company anymore-why would they, when they know they will be fired if they can find another dude from ndia for 10 bucks less than ou?

I like your analysis.

Quigley says

American RAGE about Immigration and offshoring are what's skewing this current election cycle towards Trump. It almost doesn't matter what he says as long as he stays strong on these core and unrepresented issues. Americans can clearly see *aside from Strategist* that the Dems and Reps are whoring out their jobs to Chindians and Mexicans and any other group that will work for cheap without complaining.

Why is that bad? It benefits us.
Strategist is not the only one. Bill Gates, and almost every other successful entrepreneur sees the need to import brains.

Strategist says

Strategist is not the only one. Bill Gates, and almost every other successful entrepreneur sees the need to import brains.

No there are plenty of brains here already. They see the need to import desperate people from shithole countries to make themselves as wealthy as possible while turning america to a shithole country also.

Strategist says

Why is that bad? It benefits us.

I see, by "us" you mean "we wealthy elite owners who want to compare financial penises with each other."
Meanwhile mainstreet America is getting crushed. Most people (who have jobs) work too hard for just enough to pay taxes and keep a roof over their heads. Eliminating more jobs with the H1 (and now H2 program for blue-collar as well) is just a way corporate America sucks up to the owner class by trying to maximize profits.
A lot of us are sick of it.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

Strategist is not the only one. Bill Gates, and almost every other successful entrepreneur sees the need to import brains.

No there are plenty of brains here already. They see the need to import desperate people from shithole countries to make themselves as wealthy as possible while turning america to a shithole country also.

Quigley says

I see, by "us" you mean "we wealthy elite owners who want to compare financial penises with each other."

Meanwhile mainstreet America is getting crushed. Most people (who have jobs) work too hard for just enough to pay taxes and keep a roof over their heads. Eliminating more jobs with the H1

They said the same thing when Japanese cars and TV's were displacing GM and Zenith.
They say the same thing about Chinese imports.
They now say the same thing about Indian software.
Myths myths myths.

Quigley says

(and now H2 program for blue-collar as well) is just a way corporate America sucks up to the owner class by trying to maximize profits.

A lot of us are sick of it.

I'm surprised at the "H2" Makes no sense to me.
Here is a question? Do you buy Japanese cars or Chinese TV's? Would you pay $10.00 for a toothpaste when you can get 5 of them for the same price at Costco? Businesses are no different.

Strategist says

They said the same thing when Japanese cars and TV's were displacing GM and Zenith

And they were right.

Strategist says

They say the same thing about Chinese imports.

And they are right.

Strategist says

They now say the same thing about Indian software.

And they are right.

Strategist says

Myths myths myths

Have you seen real wage growth for the working population? It's basically non-existent. In part because of what you list above.

I know you think buying cheap crap from overseas makes us wealthier, but you're wrong.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Myths myths myths

Have you seen real wage growth for the working population? It's basically non-existent. In part because of what you list above.

I know you think buying cheap crap from overseas makes us wealthier, but you're wrong.

How can that be Tatupu? "A penny saved is a penny earned" Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off. Everyone filling gas in their tanks now has a smile on their face. (Except Californians)

Except the person saving the penny isn't the person earning it.

Where are the high-tech jobs of the future?

I thought we were going to export to "A Billion Chinese Customers"?

Strategist says

How can that be Tatupu? "A penny saved is a penny earned" Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off. Everyone filling gas in their tanks now has a smile on their face. (Except Californians)

It's pretty simple really. Every job that gets outsourced is, what, 5,000,000 pennies? We don't save nearly enough on cheap Chinese crap to make up for that. Even worse, the HB1s that drive down wages make inequality worse. The savings in labor go straight to the owners, making them richer while the average Joe gets poorer.

lostand confused says

Now having said that-I am in the if you can't beat them , join them category. Instead of doing tech stuff, I have switched over to managing them and getting work done from a diverse team spread across the globe-yes bulk H1Bs and offshored. I am much happier, instead of worrying about the whole picture, I take care of me. I am in pretty good demand, as in today's worldwide organizations, the ability to get quality work done on time and on budget is very valuable.

You are unfortunately part of the problem.

Outsourcing often happens because mediocre US employers and managers feel their ego threatened by good employees and lower headcounts. Instead of hiring 2 good employees that will do high quality work at 200k each, they would rather hire 6 H1B at 100k each. They end up spending 600k instead of 400k, but their headcount (status) is higher, and the indentured servant-employees are obedient and will give all credit to the manager (who used to be a mediocre engineer himself). Also, the manager will argue himself a 100k raise for supposedly saving the company 600k=6*(200k-100k). He actually spent 200k more for the same work, but that got lost in the progaganda.

Does that sum it up?

tatupu70 says

It's pretty simple really. Every job that gets outsourced is, what, 5,000,000 pennies? We don't save nearly enough on cheap Chinese crap to make up for that. Even worse, the HB1s that drive down wages make inequality worse. The savings in labor go straight to the owners, making them richer while the average Joe gets poorer.

And, because there is a global savings glut with too much cash pursuing too few opportunities powered by record corporate profits and 1%er wealth, it leads to either rampant speculation or stagnation.

justme says

Outsourcing often happens because mediocre US employers and managers feel their ego threatened by good employees and lower headcounts. Instead of hiring 2 good employees that will do high quality work at 200k each, they would rather hire 6 H1B at 100k each. They end up spending 600k instead of 400k, but their headcount (status) is higher, and the indentured servant-employees are obedient and will give all credit to the manager (who used to be a mediocre engineer himself). Also, the manager will argue himself a 100k raise for supposedly saving the company 600k=6*(200k-100k). He actually spent 200k more for the same work, but that got lost in the progaganda.

Does that sum it up?

While disgruntled employees think so and I used to think the same, after my job was outsourced and I was on the curb, when the tech industry was down-reality is not that way.

In reality a CIO or even above usually hires a very big firm that does a "study". They usually come back with an analysis saying your current structure costs 100 million bucks a year and if you outsource your IT/backend business process etc you can save 30 million and your budget is now 70 million a year and you can show your shareholders and Wall street -increased earnings/gross margin. Then the board makes a decision and hey presto we are suddenly moving to an outsourced position. People below that only get to implement the board's "vision". either get with the program/decision that has already been made or they will find someone to do the job for them-nobody is indispensable.

Yeah it would be nice if the jobs stayed here, all the knowledge and decades of experience stayed put-but hey until a Trump or someone comes around and limits these deals-you gotta do what you gotta do. Currently there is a tech boom, yes, but that will pass and then what will you do. I choose not to compete with 20 year olds from Bangalore who are ready to do the same work as me at grocery store wages.

I mean it is not like the Obama and the dems are going to help the workers-he is the one expanding it through executive order. Trump is the only one coming out swinging against it-I don't hold my breath that he will do much-but hey Obozo actually is going against US workers.

I saw so many tech workers destroyed and -financially and mentally-because some worked in the same place for decades and didn't even know how to put together a resume and interview. Some never got over it and went downhill in life. others managed to survive and some thrived. You can't control life-just be realistic and decide what you want to do with the hand you are given.

Strategist says

"A penny saved is a penny earned" Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off. Everyone filling gas in their tanks now has a smile on their face. (Except Californians)

How exactly does someone that is unemployed because their job was outsourced buying the same thing at half the price leave us better off?

Strategist says

Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off.

When you outsource you don't get the same thing. You get a smelly Indian that really can't code very well. Or you get this:

Or this Chinese brake rotor:

Or this:

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

How can that be Tatupu? "A penny saved is a penny earned" Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off. Everyone filling gas in their tanks now has a smile on their face. (Except Californians)

It's pretty simple really. Every job that gets outsourced is, what, 5,000,000 pennies? We don't save nearly enough on cheap Chinese crap to make up for that. Even worse, the HB1s that drive down wages make inequality worse. The savings in labor go straight to the owners, making them richer while the average Joe gets poorer.

If you have a 401K you are part of the owner class.

zzyzzx says

Strategist says

Buying the same thing at half the price leaves us better off.

When you outsource you don't get the same thing. You get a smelly Indian that really can't code very well. Or you get this:

The corporations believe they are getting their moneys worth by hiring H1B visa holders.

thunderlips11 says

I thought we were going to export to "A Billion Chinese Customers"?

I guess they gave up on that. At the end of they day, they only just want more power and money, fuck the rest of us.

Strategist says

The corporations believe they are getting their moneys worth by hiring H1B visa holders.

Their customers would disagree.

Strategist says

Dan makes 100K+

I seriously doubt it.

lalalala says

I seriously doubt it.

Why, because you don't?