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How America Was Lost

By marcus follow marcus   2016 Feb 15, 11:27am 14,032 views   56 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Yep.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/15/opinion/how-america-was-lost.html?rref=opinion&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=Blogs

On the substantive divide between the parties: I still encounter people on the left (although never on the right) who claim that there’s no big difference between Republicans and Democrats, or at any rate “establishment” Democrats. But that’s nonsense. Even if you’re disappointed in what President Obama accomplished, he substantially raised taxes on the rich and dramatically expanded the social safety net; significantly tightened financial regulation; encouraged and oversaw a surge in renewable energy; moved forward on diplomacy with Iran.

Any Republican would undo all of that, and move sharply in the opposite direction. If anything, the consensus among the presidential candidates seems to be that George W. Bush didn’t cut taxes on the rich nearly enough, and should have made more use of torture.

When we talk about partisanship, then, we’re not talking about arbitrary teams, we’re talking about a deep divide on values and policy. How can anyone not be “partisan” in the sense of preferring one of these visions?

And it’s up to you to decide which version you prefer. So why do I say that only one party has gone off the deep end?

One answer is, compare last week’s Democratic debate with Saturday’s Republican debate. Need I say more?

Beyond that, there are huge differences in tactics and attitudes. Democrats never tried to extort concessions by threatening to cut off U.S. borrowing and create a financial crisis; Republicans did. Democrats don’t routinely deny the legitimacy of presidents from the other party; Republicans did it to both Bill Clinton and Mr. Obama. The G.O.P.’s new Supreme Court blockade is, fundamentally, in a direct line of descent from the days when Republicans used to call Mr. Clinton “your president.”

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17   MMR   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 15, 4:02pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

marcus says

of course the destruction of the family unit

unintended consequence of LBJ's 'Great America' but not a 'core foundation policy' by any means

18   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 15, 4:03pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

zzyzzx says

Those people will be voting for Trump.

Hopefully Sanders.

19   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 15, 4:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Marcus are you a union member?

20   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 15, 4:44pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says

Marcus are you a union member?

I say we reduce the burden on taxpayers by eliminating Tenure offering H1-Bs to Math Teachers from the Phillipennes, India, Jamaica, Barbados, Kenya, etc.

Why shouldn't Marcus compete internationally to make a living? Can he beat an H-1B who is happy to make $23,000 a year with no benefits ?

Why should math teachers be insulated from the positive, happy, win-win-win wave of Globalization?

If it's good enough for the rustbelt workers, it's good enough for California Educators, amirite?

After all, when they came for the factory workers, I said nothing...
When they came for the nurses, I said nothing...
When they came for the IT guys, I said nothing...
Now they're here for the teachers, and nobody left to say anything for Marcus...

21   Entitlemented   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 15, 4:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Not sure if racism is that bad (as it was years ago).

In my mind, the biggest Malinvestment that we did in the 90s was the CRA and Subprime/Ninja Loans. If we instead would have invested $5T into jobs, alt. eng., education, and infrastructure, people who were poor could have closed in on middle class and then paid normal loans back at 5-6%. It also further discouraged job investment for the poor, because, - hey you could become rich off your house/atm.

Instead, we had a distortive bubble created by a egoist social engineer, who although he meant well did not understand what ponzi scheme would unfold:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-cra-debate-a-users-guide-2009-6

To me this may have cost more than the wars, causes c

22   marcus   ignore (10)   2016 Feb 15, 6:01pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says

That's a stupid argument. If you accept this you basically condone doing nothing in the face of what is happening in this country.

For one thing, I wasn't making the argument, I was just translating. As for how stupid it is ?

I don't know, I think the people that voted for Nader in 2000, causing Bush to be elected were stupid, for essentially following your reasoning.

A voter might be wrong in their assessment that Bernie is unelectable, but voting for Hillary (in the primary) because of that assessment is hardly stupid.

23   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 15, 6:06pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

marcus says

I don't know, I think the people that voted for Nader in 2000, causing Bush to be elected were stupid, for essentially following your reasoning.

This line of argument assumes Hillary is a better candidate in the general election which I think is very questionable.

1. Sanders polls as well if not better against most of the potential GOP nominees
2. Hillary has multiple scandals brewing against her that could explode at any minute
3. She has very little excitement or grass roots support.

Voting for Sanders is not even in the same hemisphere as voting for Nader

24   marcus   ignore (10)   2016 Feb 15, 6:09pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

If I were voting in one of the upcoming primaries, I would probably vote for Bernie, becasue of a strong conviction that he is not going to be the nominee, and wanting part of his platform to be considered and debated in the general election. That is, I do not believe the country is ready for him, but I like the idea of the country moving in the direction of being ready for him or someone like him.

25   marcus   ignore (10)   2016 Feb 15, 6:11pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

tatupu70 says

Voting for Sanders is not even in the same hemisphere as voting for Nader

Actually, relative to my point it is very similar. The money now has Hillary more than three times as likely to be nominated than Bernie. And like Nader, Bernie can not win against a mainstream moderate conservative, although in that case Nader was the third candidate and his vote was indeed, even more of a protest vote than voting for Bernie is. But if you think Bernie has a chance of becoming President, you're dreaming far more than the Trumpeters. And I don't believe Trump can be elected either. But it's FAR more likely than Bernie.

26   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 15, 6:25pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Average of Polls has Rubio defeating Hillary by several points, outside the Margin of Error.

But Sanders is only defeated by a single point, which means he could win since it's well inside the Margin of Error.

Sanders beats Trump by a greater margin than Hillary.

Update : Found the Sanders vs. Cruz.

Kasich, Carson and Jeb! need a miracle turnaround to win the GOP nomination at this point.

27   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 15, 6:25pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

marcus says

And like Nader, Bernie can not win against a mainstream moderate conservative

I disagree with you there. What makes you think he couldn't? He polls above them. And he scores high among Independents

Nader had absolutely zero chance.

28   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 15, 6:30pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Sanders vs. Cruz

Sanders wins (and I'd bet $50 it would be well above 3 points. Cruz has gone so far to please Social Conservatives in the Primaries, he can't walk it back and thus can't win nationally).

Hillary vs. Cruz. Wins by 2/10th of one percent, very risky.

Said it before and I'll say it again. Two ways to win: Capture the Center or Enthusiasm. Sanders has the latter. Is Capture the Center a viable strategy at a time when Americans are registering their greatest disgust on record with the status quo and electioneering?

29   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2016 Feb 15, 6:38pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Hillary will be lucky if She beats prison. There are already motions to remove toothless Lynch from Clinton's case due to conflict of interest.
It seems her mornging McDonald's drive through gig is interfering with her job reponsibilities. They are going to promote to general manager and give her two stores.

Because she can't prosecute a traitor war criminal worth a fuck.

30   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 15, 6:47pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says

Hillary will be lucky if She beats prison.

That's the other risk with Clinton. If Hillary was some State Department Vice Associate Assistant to the Assistant, she'd be facing multiple counts and would be lucky to plea down to a few years in prison.

The thousands and thousands of insecure privately hosted emails with above Secret Clearance information is simply inexcusable. Some of this stuff by law could not have been disseminated out of a Special Locked Room where the computers have their USBs deactivated to prevent flash drives being used.

She absolutely hosted them privately to avoid the new laws on government record keeping.

Somebody - maybe Trump - needs to point out that Obama is pretty damned inconsistent for punishing Generals for breaking protocols, while allowing the Secretary of State herself to violate not only the Law, but State Department Policy secrecy protocols on a massive scale.

A "Leader" who routinely circumvents his own Policies thousands of times is a bad Leader. It's even worse when she's called for the heads of whistleblowers.

Apparently, in the FBI Agents are absolutely LIVID she is not facing charges over this. There's already more than enough information and evidence to begin the prosecution.

31   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2016 Feb 15, 6:57pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

Somebody - maybe Trump - needs to point out that Obama

He hasn't gotten to the Liberals yet he's going to do a number on them like you wont believe.
Even if he has to run as an independent. Wouldn't that be something if the RNC machine manages to make it look like Jeb won. Then Trump goes rouge and goes it in an Independent bid.
The polls show him strog enough that the primetime debates have to include him. First of all, it would be the first independent inclusion, they pretty much muscled Nader out of the Presidential debates.
It would be the first time in History that the winning Republican candidate from the primaries got to debate the Republican candidate winner beyond the primaries.

32   jazz_music   ignore (12)   2016 Feb 15, 8:39pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Keep hammering on those poor people eh? Those that own no congressmen or major media to bully for them. Ever thought of these towering dynasties of wealth accumulating from here offshore to hidey-holes? They NEVER WERE GOING TO CREATE ANY JOBS in this country in exchange for tax breaks.

Why don't they privatize the Reagan monument in Simi Valley? --it would flop, it would become too expensive. So ironic there.

zzyzzx says

Not really. Dems want as many people as possible on welfare programs.

33   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 16, 9:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Unlike many Clinton supporters, I am not writing to you because I think you’re naïve, or misguided, or sexist, or dumb, or any of the other patronizing and condescending crap that Hillary voters often say. In fact, I probably agree with you on most issues. I am writing to you because I am sincerely worried that you will hand this election to the Republicans, and I want to do my best to convince you not to do so.

The point of primary elections is not to select a president; it’s to select a candidate. For that reason, “electability” is not just one among many issues: It is the central issue. Yet despite having absorbed several dozen pro-Bernie articles and videos, I have yet to hear a plausible path to victory for Bernie Sanders.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/16/why-a-vote-for-bernie-sanders-is-a-vote-for-donald-trump.html

... other than the fact Bernie does as good or better than Hillary against every single Republican in Match-ups - see post above.

Hilarite Reactionaries keep pounding on the "electable" non-issue. Not a single poll I have seen supports this view. While many disagree with Sanders, they do feel that A) He is Honest and B) He has far higher Trust and Honesty ratings than Hillary. The Hilarite Reactionaries don't appreciate how deeply unpopular Hillary is with many across the spectrum, and that she is not a motivating candidate that brings out millions of voters in swing states that might very well stay home.

They're also dismissing the fact, not opinion, that Bernie is raising more money than Hillary and doing so without relying on SuperPACs. This is a leading sign of enthusiasm, particularly as most donations average about $27.

Finally, there are signs that Bernie will beat or match Hillary among Hispanics, who are more numerous than Blacks

34   Entitlemented   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 16, 10:15am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Hillary was a victim:

- Of her husbands dating while married issues
- Of her husbands legacy of CRA
- Of her husbands legacy of NAFTA

She was not the bad person - but she likely accepted it as a power couple for her future aspirations.
Hillary extends concerns in that:
- She was silent on Bills bad behavior
- She did a report on Saul Alinsky that shows lack of integrity, and worse a propensity for evil
- Clinton Foundation is looking like the largest influence buying lobbying vehicle by any non-profit
- Clinton Foundation and propensity to undermine US national interests cannot be overstated
- Sending Top Secret emails is illegal, and someone doing this cannot be trusted to safeguard the US

All of this said, Bernie Sanders is more like Saul Alinski that Hillary.
Hillary looks like Mother Theresa compared to Sanders.

She and the American People are being Alinskied

35   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 16, 10:43am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Entitlemented says

All of this said, Bernie Sanders is more like Saul Alinski that Hillary.

Hillary did not agree with Alinsky and turned down a job offer from him. She believed, unlike Alinsky,that change could come from inside the Establishment without any pressure from the public.
Ha!

36   Entitlemented   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 16, 11:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It appears that the effects of Alinsky, and the admiration both by Obama and Hillary have crunched the US economy.

Alinskies writings are similar to the writings of V. Lenin.

Alinsky is like the shyster at the used car lot trying to sell you a lemon, but he managed to get his ideas elevated to the power hungry grab power at cost Liberal Democrats.

But Bernie is a better liar than either Obama and Hillary. Lenin was a consumate liar, and he shaped the most idealist false impressions of socialism, that it would be a utopia. Luckily we have Russia, Venezuala, and Cuba as examples of Socialism gone bad, but people accepting free stuff can be lead down a path of destruction.

Atheists - you better look how the devil runs countries, its enough to make you at first agnostics, and then appreciate that liberty is better than enslavement.

1917-2017 is the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution. This is darkness. 1917 is also the year that Einsteins PhotoElectric and Relativity theorys were published. This is the light (pun intended).

The question is, which future will we chose?

37   anotheraccount   ignore (1)   2016 Feb 16, 11:10am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

he substantially raised taxes on the rich

Not really. He raised taxes a little bit.

dramatically expanded the social safety net

At a great cost to middle class. The root causes of unaffordable healthcare prices have not been addressed.

significantly tightened financial regulation

Dodd Frank is weak. Instead of banks holding "inventory" of junk bonds, mutual funds took their place.

encouraged and oversaw a surge in renewable energy

Full credit there.

moved forward on diplomacy with Iran

Credit there. What about screwing up Lybia, Syria, Ukraine?

38   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 16, 11:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

As for how stupid it is ?

I don't know, I think the people that voted for Nader in 2000, causing Bush to be elected were stupid, for essentially following your reasoning.

If everyone assumes Hillary is a better candidate and vote for her as a result, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and the result is to perpetuate the establishment lock on this country

Which is why I said it is stupid, and people should just vote for who they think is the best for the country, and ignore the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt generated by this same establishment.

39   marcus   ignore (10)   2016 Feb 16, 9:21pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I understood why you said it's stupid. But you're wrong. It's not that simple. Part of the goal of a primary is to find a candidate that can beat the other side in the fall.

I'm not saying even that they are right if they think this way. But they certainly aren't stupid, and they might be right.

I guess it depends in part in how bad you think having a Trump or a Cruz Presidency would be. Some of us think it would be quite a bit worse than a Hillary Presidency.

It's kind of a moot point anyway, because Bernie isn't going to win, which is why I would be willing to vote for him if I voted in one of the upcoming primaries.

I know. It's twisted.

40   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 17, 8:30am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says

If everyone assumes Hillary is a better candidate and vote for her as a result, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and the result is to perpetuate the establishment lock on this country

The sad thing is that according to most polls Bernie is as good, or the better, candidate in most of the matchups against Republicans than Hillary, but the Media pretends he's a long shot.

41   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 17, 10:48am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

The sad thing is that according to most polls Bernie is as good, or the better, candidate in most of the matchups against Republicans than Hillary, but the Media pretends he's a long shot.

A lot of people assume Bernie would fare worse in a general election because he's farther left.
That's underestimating how hated Hillary really is. People are super energized against her.

42   CornPoptheOriginalGangster   ignore (5)   2016 Feb 17, 11:15am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Heraclitusstudent says

A lot of people assume Bernie would fare worse in a general election because he's farther left.

New Poll: Bernie has the edge in most matchups against Republicans

WASHINGTON — Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders fares a bit better than rival Hillary Clinton in head-to-head matchups against Republican presidential contenders, a USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds, and he has pulled within 10 percentage points of her for the Democratic nomination.

The nationwide survey, taken Thursday through Monday, underscores how formidable an opponent the 74-year-old democratic socialist has become against one of the Democratic Party's most established figures.

Clinton — a former first lady, two-term New York senator and secretary of State — is backed by 50% of likely Democratic primary and caucus voters, down 6 points from December. Over that time, Sanders' standing has surged 11 points, to 40%.

While Clinton argues that she would be more electable in November, Sanders shows somewhat more strength against four possible Republican opponents, although almost all of the matchups fall within the poll's margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/02/17/usa-today-suffolk-poll-whos-more-electable/80452560/

43   marcus   ignore (10)   2016 Feb 17, 7:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

The sad thing is that according to most polls Bernie is as good, or the better, candidate in most of the matchups against Republicans than Hillary, but the Media pretends he's a long shot.

I guess if you want to assume that the eventual republican nominee will be unacceptable to huge swaths of the middle of the electorate (say Trump for example), then you may be right.

But if and when the republicans settle on someone moderate, that would get the votes of the evangelicals, the tea baggers, the business corporate conservatives, the red necks, the Foxbots, all the Fort Wayne's of the world that think Reagan was the greatest President ever, etc, it is a long shot that Bernie can win. At least that's what common sense would suggest.

Hell, they get millions of idiots in fly over country hating politicians for being "socialists" that are in reality right of center moderates. Whereas Bernie actually describes himself as a socialist. The fact that he could possibly win New York or California is irrelevant.

44   marcus   ignore (10)   2016 Feb 17, 7:19pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

New Poll: Bernie has the edge in most matchups against Republicans

I don't know whether it's a bs poll, or whether it has to do with the fact that the republicans don't have anyone that everyone is getting behind (YET). But I don't believe it.

Keep in mind, that there are some very powerful interests that would very much like to see Bernie as the democrat candidate, because of the fact that he can't win. So there is a lot of ridiculous propaganda flying around.

45   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 18, 5:24am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

But if and when the republicans settle on someone moderate, that would get the votes of the evangelicals, the tea baggers, the business corporate conservatives, the red necks, the Foxbots, all the Fort Wayne's of the world that think Reagan was the greatest President ever, etc, it is a long shot that Bernie can win. At least that's what common sense would suggest.

Hasn't this election proved to you that "common sense" is wrong yet? I think you have to disregard conventional wisdom on this one.

There is a reason Clinton is doing so poorly and it won't change in the general election.

46   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 18, 6:02am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm hugely impressed by Bernie's success so far. I also agree with tat that there is a reason Clinton is doing so poorly. There is so much Hillary hate out there, and there are the scandals and distrust. It's like she's dragging a giant bag of shit with her, and we're all wondering if the bag is going to rip open and cause a big mess.

It is also looking more and more like the Donald will be the Repugnican at large. It could be a terribly interesting election. And "conventional wisdom" is dead at this point.

All of that said, we are still in the primaries. I'm wondering if people will break for a more traditional candidate in the general election when things start to feel a little more permanent.

47   jazz_music   ignore (12)   2016 Feb 18, 9:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

As I read this thread I am reminded of the Frank Zappa quote: "Government is the Entertainment division of the military-industrial complex."

And I fear that this election is one of the final distractions from the transformation to the new feudal order of things.

I'm influenced by having read arguments on the web that the globalized world is bracing for some kind of uprising this year in the USA. These elections are a theatrical production giving us, the distracted, the FEELING of being a part of something important but in the end this may turn out to be the final distraction from us doing anything real.

Speaking of something real. You may be interested to look up the stories of the Occupy movement. It seems that they are being watched like a hawk by several levels of enforcement.

Considering what America could have been, the prospects of us all passively being manipulated into a new feudal order are very creepy.

The US Navy recently published some results from 20 years of research about cold fusion. Cold fusion is viable in the near term. This technology could completely change our world, but currently preeminent elites would be undermined by the prospect of it. My reaction to that is that we would have to DRIVE OUR GOVERNMENT bring these wealthy elites in line to stop them from deciding the course of our history in a way that maximizes their amassing of wealth and power.

48   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 18, 10:52am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

I guess if you want to assume that the eventual republican nominee will be unacceptable to huge swaths of the middle of the electorate (say Trump for example), then you may be right.

But if and when the republicans settle on someone moderate, that would get the votes of the evangelicals, the tea baggers, the business corporate conservatives, the red necks, the Foxbots, all the Fort Wayne's of the world that think Reagan was the greatest President ever, etc, it is a long shot that Bernie can win.

Wake up: If republicans settle on someone moderate then Hillary is even more fucked than Bernie regardless.

If you don't believe polls, take the anecdotal evidence: I know several people who normally vote democrat, but would vote Trump any day over Hillary, if Hillary got the nomination.

49   Quigley   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 18, 10:56am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

Yes, everyone knows this is the core foundation policy of the democratic party. Well, that and of course the destruction of the family unit, and increasing abortion and homosexuality as much as possible, and of course let's not forget taking away everyone's guns.

Finally Marcus says something I can agree with! Bravo, @Marcus! Glad you finally saw the light!

50   marcus   ignore (10)   2016 Feb 18, 7:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

tatupu70 says

There is a reason Clinton is doing so poorly and it won't change in the general election.

Is she doing poorly ?

She's the establishment democrat right ?

Name me an establishment republican that's doing as well as she is. The money has her at approximately 75% chance of getting the nomination.

The primary season is when the more extreme candidates, that fire up the base are supposed to do well. Then in the election, the question is who can win the most of the independents and moderate middle.

51   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 18, 10:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

Then in the election, the question is who can win the most of the independents and moderate middle.

Who can win the most independents is not Clinton. Just look at NH.

marcus says

Is she doing poorly ?

Out of 2 states she barely won 1 and got wiped in the second. Hardly a good start.

52   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 18, 10:45pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/18/fox-news-poll-clinton-feels-bern-trails-sanders-by-three-points-nationally.html#

Bernie Sanders now tops Hillary Clinton in the race for the Democratic nomination.  The latest Fox News national poll finds 47 percent of Democratic primary voters now back the Vermont senator, up from 37 percent in January.  Clinton gets 44 percent, down from 49 percent a month ago.

53   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 18, 11:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

{The Democratic Party’s Presidential contest isn’t really a contest between ‘idealism’ versus ‘pragmatism,’ such as some propagandists claim. To characterize either candidate as ‘the idealist’ versus ‘the pragmatist’ is false. That characterization of this contest is actually deeply deceptive, because it focuses on vague abstractions, whereas the real issue in the Democratic Party primaries now is totally nitty-gritty, and it concerns two alternative diagnoses of what has been going wrong with America’s economy in recent decades.

In Bernie’s view, American democracy is now in the emergency room; in Hillary’s view, complainers (against anything other than bigots) are like mere hypochondriacs who simply don’t understand the experts who say that things aren’t so bad, and that therefore no “revolution” is needed.

Is America’s basic governmental problem bigotry (i.e., certain cultural and ‘values’ problems), as Hillary says;

or is it instead corruption (i.e., certain economic and governmental problems), as Bernie says?
}
-----------------
I think the answer is clear:
The problem is not that experts are right and no one understands what they are trying to do.
The problem is corruption.

54   tatupu70   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 19, 5:02am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

Is she doing poorly ?

Yes

marcus says

The primary season is when the more extreme candidates, that fire up the base are supposed to do well. Then in the election, the question is who can win the most of the independents and moderate middle.

Exactly. Look at the NH results. Independents voted for Bernie by a 73-25 margin. So, tell me how Clinton is a better candidate again?

http://www.cbsnews.com/elections/2016/primaries/democrat/new-hampshire/exit/

55   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2016 Feb 19, 7:19am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I see Bernie polling well below Clinton at the moment nationally, but he keeps gaining on her, and if he can compete in each state as the primaries roll through, he may get there. He certainly doesn't have the political baggage the Clinton has, and his personal story is more compelling. But older people and higher income people are less interested in rocking the fuck out of the boat to see what happens. Those people are more likely to be interested in Clinton.

56   dublin hillz   ignore (0)   2016 Feb 19, 9:45am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If we break up the big banks tomorrow, there will still be traffic fatalities over the weekend.

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