patrick.net

Bellingham Bill says

not too bad actually

and think how much worse our unemployment would be if we had a $100B/yr defense expense not $600B

I was talking about Japan, but I disagree that military spending is good for the economy. It's wasteful and mostly non-productive and counter-productive. That money could be spent providing education for all, creating far greater benefits.

Dan8267 says

That money could be spent providing education for all, creating far greater benefits.

Sure, but if we cut $500B/yr out of the DOD, much of the US would get a lot, lot worse. That's around 10 million jobs straight away.

Then remove those 10 million jobs from local economies and see how many other jobs are then lost.

Then run the next round further out.

Our entire economy would nosedive like 1929-33.

Japan actually substitutes a rather aggressive public works program for defense, so they have a nicer place to live than us, mostly.

Dan8267 says

Damn, it took 20 years though. What a waste of time and money for an entire generation.

And people wonder why their economy is bad. Ransacking an entire generation's income prevents that generation from consuming which in turn causes lower productivity,

As Patrick said, Japan's demographics suck, but has anyone argued yet that the biggest cause of the Japan demographic baby-bust was their immensely stupid housing bubble?

I think that may be the long-term effect in the US as well. Except we are not an island with strict border controls.

Dan8267 says

With the low birth rates and the anti-sex attitude among both young men and women, I suspect you are correct. A declining population causes lower housing prices.

I highly doubt there is an anti-sex attitude among men. You know better than that, Dan. The problem is that Japanese young women have completely priced themselves out of the market.

In fact, the same thing is happening in the US and all Western countries. Come to think of it, I think it would be descriptive to say there is a chick-bubble. A bubble with insane prices and very low sales volume. And low inventory. Nothing on the market. You read it here first!

justme says

I think it would be descriptive to say there is a chick-bubble. A bubble with insane prices and very low sales volume. And low inventory. Nothing on the market.

LOL! That's exactly right - nothing new and unused is available.

But they think you should pay new prices for used and road-worn! It's like getting a "new" car and finding other people's hair and boogers on the floor because they've been letting random guy friends drive it whenever. But feminism tells women they should act like men, and so they do. That repulses men, and the women wonder why, never questioning the feminist bullshit which is actually fatal for their own marriage prospects and happiness.

Female chastity is a traditional virtue for a reason.

Bellingham Bill says

Sure, but if we cut $500B/yr out of the DOD, much of the US would get a lot, lot worse. That's around 10 million jobs straight away.

Then remove those 10 million jobs from local economies and see how many other jobs are then lost.

The same could be said about cutting welfare and unemployment benefits.

Furthermore, spending that $500B/yr to hire teachers instead of soldiers would be far better for the economy. At least with education you get better workers and all the benefits you are claiming from warfare spending without any of the counter-productive, economy-destroying effects of warfare.

So if you're going to have the government run a massive jobs program, it's should be jobs that do useful work like increasing the skills of the next generation or repairing and upgrading our infrastructure. Hell, it would be better if instead of spending $500B/yr on war, we spent that money tearing down ghettos and replacing them with good housing that we give to the poor. Again, all the benefits of a jobs program plus real economic productivity and none of the negatives of warfare.

^yup, not disagreeing with you, just saying the $500B *more* than we spend vs. Japan is how we keep our economy going for the surplus people, partially.

It's part of Sander's program to divert this spending into more wealth-accreting investments I suppose.

And that's what we should be doing, like you said.

If you could take all the money -- not just money but labor and resources -- we incinerated in the mideast since 2001 we'd have a fucking nordic utopia here, 15 years on.
We're talking trillions and trillions, and all the labor and capital that buys.

justme says

I highly doubt there is an anti-sex attitude among men. You know better than that, Dan.

I look at evidence, not preconceived notions, to determine the truth. Like it or not, the evidence counters what you believe.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

A survey in 2011 found that 61% of unmarried men and 49% of women aged 18-34 were not in any kind of romantic relationship, a rise of almost 10% from five years earlier. Another study found that a third of people under 30 had never dated at all.

Aoyama cites one man in his early 30s, a virgin, who can't get sexually aroused unless he watches female robots on a game similar to Power Rangers.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/06/22/national/social-issues/nearly-40-of-single-japanese-not-interested-in-romance-survey/#.Vtxg1-ZNh4o

39.1 percent of women and 36.2 percent of men said they do not want a romantic partner.

http://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-japanese-people-arent-having-sex-2015-7

According to a 2011 report from Japan's population center cited by Max Fisher at The Washington Post:

• 27% of men and 23% of women aren't interested in a romantic relationship

• From ages 18 to 34, 61% of men and 49% of women aren't involved in a relationship

• From ages 18 to 34, 36% of men and 39% of women have never had sex

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/23/aziz-ansari/startling-stat-checks-out-46-percent-young-women-j/

Ansari brings up the figure about young women not being into sex in his book with a host of other scary statistics, writing, "In 2013 a whopping 45 percent of women aged 16 to 24 ‘were not interested in or despised sexual contact,’ and more than a quarter of men felt the same way."

A quarter of young men "not interested in or despising sexual contact" is indicative of something seriously fucked up.

Bellingham Bill says

^yup, not disagreeing with you, just saying the $500B *more* than we spend vs. Japan is how we keep our economy going for the surplus people, partially.

It's the worst possible way to "keep the economy going" and is no justification given the enormous number of better alternatives. Even paying criminals to commit crimes and cops to catch them would be less destructive.

Dan8267 says

justme says

I highly doubt there is an anti-sex attitude among men. You know better than that, Dan.

I look at evidence, not preconceived notions, to determine the truth. Like it or not, the evidence counters what you believe.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

Dan, I have already seen tons of articles like the ones you linked to. I should have mentioned that in my comment. I thought everyone knew that your links represent the the standard narrative about sex in Japan. My view is that the standard narrative in the mainstream media (MSM) often is very far from the truth, and that this is a case in point. Sorry I made you waste time on digging up links.

>>• 27% of men and 23% of women aren't interested in a romantic relationship

This just means that the gap between buyer and seller, so to speak, is too high. It is not that they are not interested.

justme says

This just means that the gap between buyer and seller, so to speak, is too high. It is not that they are not interested.

Dan8267 says

Aoyama cites one man in his early 30s, a virgin, who can't get sexually aroused unless he watches female robots on a game similar to Power Rangers.

There's something fucked up going on.

Dan8267 says

A quarter of young men "not interested in or despising sexual contact" is indicative of something seriously fucked up.

They call it 'herbivore boys'

https://discoverjapannow.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/who-are-japans-grass-eaters/

justme says

The problem is that Japanese young women have completely priced themselves out of the market.

Got any links expressing this?

Dan8267 says

It's wasteful and mostly non-productive and counter-productive. That money could be spent providing education for all, creating far greater benefits.

We still live in a bad bad world. If it wasn't for defense, we would be speaking Arabic.

The Germans couldn't get 2 dry boots on our soil after declaring war on us.

The camel jockeys would have a markedly harder time crossing the Atlantic.

Unless by "we" you mean Israelis or something.

Bellingham Bill says

They call it 'herbivore boys'

https://discoverjapannow.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/who-are-japans-grass-eaters/

Your link seems to contradict your comment. "Masahiro Morioka is an university professor who came up with the term, soushokukei danshi, and made it popular. Morioka defined the term as the following: “Grass eating men are those with gentle hearts. They are neither tied to the traditional sense of masculinity or greedy for love. They are not good with hurting people or being hurt by others.”
***
Do some of them refuse to date, have sex, or marry? Maybe, but they’re not the majority.
***
Grass eaters exist in Japan, but the definition of the word is much broader than what’s been reported in the media and those who are featured in it are extreme examples."

My favorite part is where it quotes Einstein saying that “information is not knowledge.” You seem to stare into the tea leaves of FRED data, but emerge mainly with confirmation of what you wanted to see there.

Bellingham Bill says

The Germans couldn't get....

"The largest invasion of American soil during World War II came in the form of eight Nazi saboteurs sent to the United States on a doomed mission known as Operation Pastorius. The men—all naturalized American citizens who were living in Germany when the conflict began—were tasked with sabotaging the war effort and demoralizing the civilian population through acts of terrorism. In June 1942, U-boats secretly dropped the two four-man crews on the coast of Amagansett, New York, and Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida. Each team carried up to $84,000 in cash and enough explosives to wage a long campaign of sabotage."

Strategist says

We still live in a bad bad world. If it wasn't for defense, we would be speaking Arabic.

If it weren't for the military industrial complex, there wouldn't have been terrorist attacks on Americans. Learn you history. Start by Googling Eisenhower study military oil regimes.

Dan8267 says

If it weren't for the military industrial complex, there wouldn't have been terrorist attacks on Americans.

Typical liberal naiveté. Dan you are really losing it man. You might as well blame a victim for being a victim at this point.

Dan8267 says

There's something fucked up going on.

Are Japanese men, merely a poor version of Rin, meaning one who's too bored (or annoyed) of dating but doesn't have the cash flow to bonk hoes? Unlike America, seeing hoes in Japan is perfectly acceptable.

just_passing_through says

The SFBA is full of average to ugly looking women

Fashion challenged for sure.

Dressing up in New York: Wearing the latest fashion

Dressing up in SF: wearing a patagonia hoodie.

Dan8267 says

(From Guardian newspaper) Aoyama cites one man in his early 30s, a virgin, who can't get sexually aroused unless he watches female robots on a game similar to Power Rangers.

A journalist can always find an outlier that supposedly "proves" their point and fits the narrative they are trying to construct. That does not mean the narative is true.

Dan8267 says

There's something fucked up going on.

That I agree with.

Booger says

justme says

The problem is that Japanese young women have completely priced themselves out of the market.

Got any links expressing this?

search: economics of marriage in japan

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2015/12/09/moving-beyond-marriage-in-japan/

Discussions of sex in Japan typically spotlight the extremes of the social landscape: from the hypersexualised (2D girlfriends, hug cafes, erotic manga) to the sexless. Gender is skimmed with reference to ‘herbivore men’ and ‘parasite singles’. But beyond the salacious and the superficial, sex and gender are topics that demand careful consideration from Japanese policymakers as well as scholars.

This declining trend in Japanese marriage rates reflects socioeconomic barriers, such as economic insecurity and underemployment, as well as differing perceptions of marriage and marriageability between men and women. The qualities that make individuals marriageable and marriage-minded — along with the circumstances in which prospective partners meet — have shifted considerably since the post-war period.

Note: "Marriagebility" is a euphemism for "women demanding more than they deserve".

search: economics of marriage in china

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/23/176326713/for-chinese-women-marriage-depends-on-right-bride-price

Most young men getting married in China today are expected to fork out, often providing an apartment, sometimes a car and a betrothal gift, too. Things were much easier when his parents got married four decades ago.

Strategist says

We still live in a bad bad world. If it wasn't for defense, we would be speaking Arabic.

Defense is irrelevant when your president is happily inviting them in by the tens of thousands.

Every mosque is a base for propagation of hate and planning of attacks. That is the nature of Islam.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

We still live in a bad bad world. If it wasn't for defense, we would be speaking Arabic.

If it weren't for the military industrial complex, there wouldn't have been terrorist attacks on Americans. Learn you history. Start by Googling Eisenhower study military oil regimes.

LOL. Thank God you're not the President.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

If it weren't for the military industrial complex, there wouldn't have been terrorist attacks on Americans.

Typical liberal naiveté. Dan you are really losing it man. You might as well blame a victim for being a victim at this point.

Hey Dan, I thought you said you aint a pot head.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

If it weren't for the military industrial complex, there wouldn't have been terrorist attacks on Americans.

Typical liberal naiveté. Dan you are really losing it man. You might as well blame a victim for being a victim at this point.

Calling your opponent naive is not a counter-argument. No wonder you like Trump. You're as dumb as he is.

justme says

Dan8267 says

(From Guardian newspaper) Aoyama cites one man in his early 30s, a virgin, who can't get sexually aroused unless he watches female robots on a game similar to Power Rangers.

A journalist can always find an outlier that supposedly "proves" their point and fits the narrative they are trying to construct.

Oh, there are many examples of such fucked up shit in Japan, especially revolving around Anime and video games.

There's no dearth of examples.

Dan, once sex robots are actualized, I'll be joining these Japanese men. Between now and then, it's hoes!

Dan8267 says

Oh, there are many examples of such fucked up shit in Japan, especially revolving around Anime and video games.

You can find some people with strange proclivities in any population larger than 100 people. That does not tell you anything. Some of the more sensational stories are mostly sensational because the twist is a little different than what you would find in Western countries. The fact remains that most Japanese men are not or would not be having strange behaviors in this realm if the female half of the population was not making sexual relationships very difficult to obtain.

justme says

The fact remains that most Japanese men are not or would not be having strange behaviors in this realm if the female half of the population was not making sexual relationships very difficult to obtain.

You could also blame Japanese men for being clueless about what women actually want. They probably listen to what women say, which is about the worst thing you can do.

Send them over to Reddit Red Pill and tell them to start lifting.

Rin says

Dan, once sex robots are actualized, I'll be joining these Japanese men. Between now and then, it's hoes!

These men are gonna end up in a psychiatric ward. This is by means normal behavior.

justme says

You can find some people with strange proclivities in any population larger than 100 people.

I think Japan is slightly outside the bell curve.

Rin says

Dan, once sex robots are actualized, I'll be joining these Japanese men.

Sex bots are not the future. It would be cheaper and a better (more addictive and thus more profitable) experience to have virtual sex through a subscription model app that directly stimulates neurons in your brain. Why build robots or a holodeck, a one-time sale, when you can get customers to pay per view. Customers will also prefer the infinite variety that a pure software solution provides. This is how business works today. You don't sell a product. You sell a service. It's more profitable. Plus it's harder for people to copy your intellectual property.

Dan8267 says

It would be cheaper and a better (more addictive and thus more profitable) experience to have virtual sex through a subscription model app that directly stimulates neurons in your brain. Why build robots or a holodeck, a one-time sale, when you can get customers to pay per view. Customers will also prefer the infinite variety that a pure software solution provides. This is how business works today. You don't sell a product. You sell a service. It's more profitable. Plus it's harder for people to copy your intellectual property.

Sign me up!

Then I can retire in Boston and enjoy my Celtics and not have to relocate to Australia, where brothels are legal. Granted, I'll spend much of Dec to Feb over there, to avoid the major northeast snowstorms but that's enough of a snowbird experience, to make me a happy man.

Dan8267 says

justme says

You can find some people with strange proclivities in any population larger than 100 people.

I think Japan is slightly outside the bell curve.

I can agree with that. But the real question is WHY? And that is the question I have attempted to answer in this thread.

justme says

I can agree with that. But the real question is WHY? And that is the question I have attempted to answer in this thread.

Here's why ... America is inflicted by Puritanism. Men are suppose to fall in love, date, marry, and procreate. When men, meaning ones with the right degrees (see engineering, law, medicine, MBA, etc) and careers (white collar mainly) oppose it, they are deemed as misfits, weirdos, etc. This is the situation I face today, where I'm the only person of my peer group, who isn't actively dating or settled down.

In Japan, however, without the Church of Oliver Cromwell imposing his will upon the the masses, men are freer to choose their sexual destinies; instead of dating a primadonna/control freak ... how about seeing hoes, or RealDolls with some anime porn?

And thus, Japanese men would rather indulge their inner fantasy life than in dealing with society as a whole. In a way, I'm not too different except that proper American society forces me to at least pretend to play the game, so that I can be a successful person in the financial services industry.

Rin,
You have it All Figured Out, everyone's motivations, etc.
You sure?

Dan8267 says

Sex bots are not the future. It would be cheaper and a better (more addictive and thus more profitable) experience to have virtual sex through a subscription model app that directly stimulates neurons in your brain. Why build robots or a holodeck, a one-time sale, when you can get customers to pay per view. Customers will also prefer the infinite variety that a pure software solution provides. This is how business works today. You don't sell a product. You sell a service. It's more profitable. Plus it's harder for people to copy your intellectual property.

It would be cheaper to implant electrodes in your brain to directly stimulate pleasure centers at orgasm level 100% of the time.

Heraclitusstudent says

It would be cheaper to implant electrodes in your brain to directly stimulate pleasure centers at orgasm level 100% of the time.

But that's not what people would want. There are people who suffer from having dozens to hundreds of orgasms a day -- both men and women -- and none of them like it. It's highly disruptive to life and makes them social outcasts because they can't be anywhere around children given our society's puritanical view of sex.

Furthermore, mere orgasm does not fulfill the complete emotional repertoire people want in short-term or long-term romantic relationships and affairs. True virtual reality indistinguishable from reality, like The Matrix, would satisfy all fantasies.

On the down side, people would work just enough to pay for their service, so the GDP might plummet.

Dan8267 says

On the down side, people would work just enough to pay for their service, so the GDP might plummet.

downside for our corporate masters perhaps, but not for the people enjoying the service.