patrick.net

In know in Florida the new land lord would still have to take you to eviction court.
That can take 3 to 6 months.

Sounds to me that the new property managers are morons.

NuttBoxer says

I asked if they would help with storage fees, movers,

seriously? entitled much?

Per your description, you are on a month to month lease, you landlord gave you notice in accordance with the lease, and you think they owe you something to make you do your part? wtf?

In the reverse, if you gave your 30 day notice, would it be ok if your landlord said, "hey, time are tight, could you pay a little extra rent, I've been a good landlord to you these years?"

Of course not. you both have a contract. you both have lived up to your side, they don't owe you anything extra and neither do you.

NuttBoxer says

WRONG! Property managers wouldn't budge of date, even though close of escrow was set for two weeks after 30 day

There could be many reasons for that:
1. repairs required for the sale that they can't do while you are there.
2. buyer requiring an inspection with the property vacant.
3. loan for owner occupied, which would mean the entire purchase loan could be delayed or denied, or break the loan lock, if you are there near closing. (lender underwiting might assume non owner occupant purchaser in that case)
4. They might be worried you don't move at the end. what if your new apartment isn't ready on time. what if the prior tenant in your new apartment doesn't get out? that could cause you to wait even longer.

A sale is a huge thing, and it might not be worth the risk to trust you in there for a couple more weeks to the seller/owner. If the sale falls through, they could lose serious money waiting for another buyer.

They don't need to explain any of this to you. Your lease apparently required one months notice, and they gave it.

NuttBoxer says

So knowing the law in California I told them I won't be leaving until the day we take possession of the new rental.

Really? which California law allows you to unilaterally change a contract to suit yourself? please, feel free to tell me that code!

While typically, a landlord doesn't file a forcible entry and detainer until 5 or 10 days late on rent payment, that isn't required.
If I was your landlord, I'd file it right now, based on your expressed intent to not honor the lease, and write in hardship reasons for a speedy trial: impending sale of the home that your overstay may put at risk.

ONE of the results of a forcible entry and detainer is an eviction. THE OTHER is damages. Your assumption that the case can be dismissed if you vacate before the court date is incorrect. It can be dismissed unilaterally by the filing party, i.e. the owner, not the defendant. You would with almost 100% certainty lose the case, and the only question would be the amount of damages. Your prior rental rate will not matter, as damages are how much money the owner lost due to your overstay, plus legal expenses for filing the case.

AND you would now have an eviction on your records. When I check credit on potential tenants, these show up. I get an email on them even after the initial credit pull, so it is possible the owner of the property you are moving into would get an update that you are now party to an eviction. I have actually returned a deposit check and cancelled a lease on tenants who were at my house with a truck, ready to move in, because they lied on the application, were being evicted by their current tenant, and I got that email the same day I was supposed to give them the keys. I entered into the contract with them, based on fraudulent representations on their part, hence I can void it if I choose to, and I chose to void it.

You chose to make a lease assuming they would give you two more weeks time, which was foolish. You could have had this discussion with your old landlord PRIOR to signing your new lease. Now, it is your problem, solve it like an adult. Negotiate with your old landlord, or move it into storage and crash at a friends house.

blowmeironvagina says

While typically, a landlord doesn't file a forcible entry and detainer until 5 or 10 days late on rent payment, that isn't required.

Maybe you can provide the section, but what I've been told by my friend who is a landlord, and has done this in California, is 5 days from when our 30 day is up, is mandatory, before filing with the court.

blowmeironvagina says

Your assumption that the case can be dismissed if you vacate before the court date is incorrect.

http://www.scscourt.org/self_help/civil/ud/ud_overview.shtml
"An Unlawful Detainer decides if the landlord can take the property back from the tenant. The landlord is the plaintiff. The tenant is the defendant. If the defendant moves out before trial, the case is dismissed or, can be changed to a regular civil action."

If I show up and request dismissal, it has to be granted. I can also provide the the CA gov link stating same...

blowmeironvagina says

THE OTHER is damages.

Small claims court. They would have to show proof that pushing out the closing date by a week caused damages, and that they could have closed on that date otherwise. Means the lending bank was ready to issue the loan by close, an area that can often cause delays in a sale. They would also have to go through the cost of doing this in the first place. If it was an individual, I could see them being that vindictive, but hard to imagine a real estate company is going to go to SC over such a small issue.

blowmeironvagina says

A sale is a huge thing, and it might not be worth the risk to trust you in there for a couple more weeks to the seller/owner. If the sale falls through, they could lose serious money waiting for another buyer.

This is completely alarmist. Have you never heard of an addendum to a contract?

Take advantage of that "first month is $1" offer from a storage company, stash your shit for a few weeks, and check into a hotel. Call it a family vacation! Make sure it has a pool for the kiddies. You'll be the family hero without any lasting legal issues!

NuttBoxer says

the case is dismissed or, can be changed to a regular civil action."

If I show up and request dismissal, it has to be granted. I can also provide the the CA gov link stating same...

so, in CA it changes to a "regular civil action"

fantastic to have that on your credit report!

NuttBoxer says

This is completely alarmist. Have you never heard of an addendum to a contract?

so two other parties to a different contract have to amend their contract, because you don't feel like living up to yours?

Also, what you don't seem to know, is that loan approvals and rate locks have EXACT dates on them. They charge for extensions. As a buyer, if I had to pay a charge because a seller couldn't perform per the contract, you had better believe I'd expect a concession equal to or greater than my expense.

you are an entitled whiny piece of shit. live up to your contract, quit being a spoiled child.

Quigley says

Take advantage of that "first month is $1" offer from a storage company, stash your shit for a few weeks, and check into a hotel. Call it a family vacation! Make sure it has a pool for the kiddies. You'll be the family hero without any lasting legal issues!

Why are people so scared to use the system to their advantage? I'll take an hour or so of hassle, and some dirty looks over $300 plus storage fees, having to move myself twice, and another $600 for hotel.

youareworthless says

you are an entitled whiny piece of shit. live up to your contract, quit being a spoiled child.

What a bunch of vindictive responses. This is why I said I'd be more worried if I was dealing with an individual.

Also, interesting none of you apparently EVER have to negotiate anything. Everything is black and white in your pseudo-reality, where exceptions never, ever occur.

I think it's really about sour grapes because a tenant peon knows some law, and is serving one of your land owning buddy's right up the ass.

Not sure if I have much to add. I do think the LL was an idiot for not selling the house vacant. They probably could have gotten more for the home and not had to deal with these issues. If this is a negotiation (and it appears to be) you should be dealing with the current owners (not their inept lackeys). Looks like the court fee is $240 for filing the unlawful detainer, so maybe you can get $500 to go away quickly. That said, if you interfere with the sale, the LL can put you in a world of hurt (unlikely they will, unless they're very spiteful). Personally, I don't have the stomach for stuff like this and would go the Quigley route.

IANAL. YMMV.

If your friend is a landlord why dont you ask him what if his tenant do that to him would he be ok with it? You are in a landlord forum most people in here are either former landlord,current or investor, most of them will never be on your side. Im not with you on this, wait until you are one if ur tenant do that to you would you be ok?

Ohh, and may I point out the double standard that I should obey the law when it comes to the 30 day notice, but ignore the law when it comes to time frame needed to get an eviction to court, dismissal of eviction if premises are vacated before said date, and unlikelihood of a large real estate firm to seek damages for a close being pushed out 1 week.

dang007 says

wait until you are one if ur tenant do that to you would you be ok?

This is kind of a separate issue, but I think property ownership is a joke in this state. If you own something you should have total control over it. Having said that, it's a me against them scenario, that I tried to avoid. They took the hardline, and I've gotta put my family's best interests first.

Shoe on the other foot, what would you do if you were the tenant? Throw away money or thumb your nose knowing they can't really do much?

You sign a contract with them both side need to go with what the contract say. You can do what you want but karma is a bitch.

NuttBoxer says

Also, interesting none of you apparently EVER have to negotiate anything

From your postings, it doesn't sound like you're negotiating-it just sounds like you asked for concessions and then moved right to threats.

Did you offer something for the right to extend your stay? After they said no, did you sweeten your offer?

NuttBoxer says

Shoe on the other foot, what would you do if you were the tenant? Throw away money or thumb your nose knowing they can't really do much?

I would have found a place that I can move into before my lease runs out. That's what I did every time I moved.

Or, I would have negotiated the extra 2 weeks BEFORE I signed with the new place.

zzyzzx says

Sounds to me that the new property managers are morons.

It's part of what economists call "diseconomies of scale." When you deal with a small company, people know each other and tend to know what they're doing, and can make rational decisions. As the company grows, it achieves economies of scale, and making the 1,000th widget costs less than making the first widget. If the company becomes too big to manage, it runs into diseconomies of scale, where the millionth widget or escrow or whatever costs more than the 1,000th one did. Somebody's job might be to empty that house on schedule, and that person might be under pressure from a boss to do the specified job on time, and that boss might be under pressure from another boss. It's what gave rise to the WWII acronyms SNAFU and FUBAR, when conscription enabled vast armies of unprecedented scale.

EBGuy says

I do think the LL was an idiot for not selling the house vacant.

The LL might have been hoping to sell to another LL, in which case having a good tenant in occupancy would add value. Empty houses can quickly become attractive nuisances and lose value.

EBGuy says

If this is a negotiation (and it appears to be) you should be dealing with the current owners (not their inept lackeys).

If you can find them. The consequences of ZIRP include bailing out TBTF banks and empowering over-extended buyers that are too big to manage. I happen to know someone whose building got bought by a bailed out TBTF bank, which is now doubling his rent; he will leave until the bubble bursts, wasting time and effort, his tax dollars and Fed dollars at work.

NuttBoxer says

Ohh, and may I point out the double standard that I should obey the law when it comes to the 30 day notice, but ignore the law when it comes to time frame needed to get an eviction to court, dismissal of eviction if premises are vacated before said date, and unlikelihood of a large real estate firm to seek damages for a close being pushed out 1 week.

Why do you insist on being an "asshole" Just move as per agreement. Next time buy, not rent.

Why do you insist on being an "asshole" Just move as per agreement. Next time buy, not rent.

Because some people are entitled in this country, let some1 else pay for their mistakes.

NuttBoxer says

youareworthless says

you are an entitled whiny piece of shit. live up to your contract, quit being a spoiled child.

What a bunch of vindictive responses. This is why I said I'd be more worried if I was dealing with an individual.

Also, interesting none of you apparently EVER have to negotiate anything. Everything is black and white in your pseudo-reality, where exceptions never, ever occur.

I think it's really about sour grapes because a tenant peon knows some law, and is serving one of your land owning buddy's right up the ass.

au contraire! As your landlord, I'd negotiate, and you'd definitely pay.

I would have sent you a notice along the lines of the following:

I am giving you 30 days notice, please vacate the premises on or before such and such date.

Should you continue tenancy after such and such date, as a tenant in suffrage, in addition to legal proceedings to reclaim the premises, your new rental rate will be $250 per day, payable in advance for the anticipated tenancy.

Legal. enforceable. That way, if I was dealing with an entitled prick who thinks the world should just give him crap, like you, I wouldn't even have to bother going to court. Rather, I'd report your debt to all three credit bureaus, same as any other renter who doesn't pay according to their rental contract.

Unless

Looks like you have 3 weeks at your disposal:

"Unlawful Detainer Lawsuits

Before seeking eviction, a landlord should first speak with the tenant refusing to move to find out why. Courts customarily give evicted tenants time to move out as well; anywhere from five days to four weeks. Also, many municipalities prohibit eviction when temperatures fall below a certain level. To avoid potential legal issues, always ensure you follow state and local landlord-tenant lease termination rules and regulations."

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/tenant-not-leave-30-days-notice-41499.html

PS. What's your deposit situation?

tatupu70 says

NuttBoxer says

Shoe on the other foot, what would you do if you were the tenant? Throw away money or thumb your nose knowing they can't really do much?

I would have found a place that I can move into before my lease runs out. That's what I did every time I moved.

Or, I would have negotiated the extra 2 weeks BEFORE I signed with the new place.

Bingo. It would have delayed signing the new lease by a few hours, or perhaps one day, to call the old landlord and have that discussion beforehand. To just assume "hell I'll just stay longer, and if the old landlord doesn't agree, fuck him, it will take longer to evict" is what an UTTER ASSHOLE thinks.

If you go through with this, I hope they do ruin your credit, you deserve it!

that landlord is an idiot.

Try to negotiate a "fair standard", that negotiation works wonders. And they probably won't go to court (its more of a headache to them than it is for you). Just don't negotiate based on who can do what to whom (you'll lose that one), those are fun on forums but not in real life.

You can't really insist on having the right to overstay the end of the rental agreement. Landlord is technically under no obligation to honor the extension. Just like in a hotel, you can't insist on staying a few extra days without payment just cause something comes up, at best they may allow a late checkout free of charge.

In the future, I would advise that if you continue to rent go with a national reputable company like avalon or whoever bought out archstone. Things are much better spelled out and you will avoid the ambiguities that come with renting from a private individual. Besides, you can invest in a REIT and get some money back in a form of a dividend lol

If you rented in the PRoB you wouldn't be having these types of problems. It's positively feudal out there.

@nuttboxer--

In all honesty, you must have a plan--how you do foresee this playing out?

You should demand a free blow job and an ipad. Otherwise, you will be laying on bed masturbating on closing day. That should spice up the walk through.

Oh they are closing, then to best of my knowledge they can't just toss you out on the street because someone is closing. Either the buyer or seller has to buy you out.
I would fillibuster if I were you.

Tenpoundbass says

I would fillibuster if I were you.

WTF?

@NuttBoxer : just continue to negotiate. Take the high road. Don't let this tip toward litigation ... you have been legally served your 30 days. That's it. There isn't a judge in the world that goes against that. Basic contractual law. Don't think that if you force them toward a legal path they won't reach out and try and exact comeuppance for whatever you pull. They are on really solid ground. YOU are not. No amount of web searches into legal mumbo-jumbo will save you.

NuttBoxer says

... only recourse is an unlawful detainer that may not even get filed in court before we vacate, and can be dismissed if we leave before the trial day.

How good do you feel about making a choice like that? You think that's the right thing to do?

What do they owe you? Why?

I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in.

tatupu70 says

I would have found a place that I can move into before my lease runs out. That's what I did every time I moved.

Or, I would have negotiated the extra 2 weeks BEFORE I signed with the new place.

I asked about pushing up the date, and I will again once it gets closer. But the current tenants of our new place are military being deployed. The military is moving their stuff for them the week before, not much flex there.

This place is $350/month lower than our next best option. For that I'm willing to take some risk...

tatupu70 says

From your postings, it doesn't sound like you're negotiating-it just sounds like you asked for concessions and then moved right to threats.

Did you offer something for the right to extend your stay? After they said no, did you sweeten your offer?

I shouldn't have to explain this, but negotiation starts with one party asking for something they want, and the other party counters with something closer to what they want. A flat no is not negotiating, and that's what they said to both requests I made.

To the last, I haven't threatened. Simply stated we don't have the means to pay for storage and hotel, and don't have another place to go. I offered to pay for the 21 days up front, as I should. Not much I can do when they shut me out right away...

Change the locks!

And only communicate with him through the mail slot.

We got Rew on the ropes don't wuss out on us now.

dang007 says

Because some people are entitled in this country, let some1 else pay for their mistakes.

I haven't made any mistakes. The PM should've remembered who I am, and negotiated. They tried to stick me with the fee for a mouse infestation at this place when they had a huge hole in the garage that let all the mice up to into the attic. I researched and found out that owner is always responsible for pest abatement, stuck to my guns, and they backed off. Some people don't learn though...

This whole thread is why I didn't care if 2010 wasn't the bottom or not, turns out it was, for now any way.
I just got tired of Landlord crap, the house I was in sold three times in 7 years. I didn't care if my house went down another $40K and still woudn't, so my taxes will be cheap when I pay it off soon.

Because now I'm sick of mortagage company, insurance companies having me by the short and curlies when it comes to insurance.

blowmeironvagina says

Legal. enforceable. That way, if I was dealing with an entitled prick who thinks the world should just give him crap, like you, I wouldn't even have to bother going to court. Rather, I'd report your debt to all three credit bureaus, same as any other renter who doesn't pay according to their rental contract.

Unless

What if I didn't agree to the terms and never signed? OHH, YOU'D START THE UNLAWFUL DETAINER SUIT. AHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Straw Man says

PS. What's your deposit situation?

I've confirmed through law and a friend, deposit cannot be touched except for damage to the residence. We will be having a pre-inspection, and we will be taking lots of pictures...

tatupu70 says

@nuttboxer--

In all honesty, you must have a plan--how you do foresee this playing out?

When they said no to financial assistance I replied back that I don't have the means to pay for storage/hotel, and don't have a place to go. I offered to pay the full rent during my time around the first as usual. Their response has been silence. If I feel like it's gotten too far, I will bring in my friend's lawyer. Both my friend who's in real estate, and my friend who own's properties say I have nothing to worry about. The laws I read are on ca.gov sites. I think my footing is pretty solid here...

Rew says

@NuttBoxer : just continue to negotiate. Take the high road. Don't let this tip toward litigation

That's not my interest at all, but they are refusing to offer up any sort of compromise. And I'm open to additional compensation their way if they wanted it. Something to get talks going...

Direct the landlord to this site and then tell them that you are APOCALYPSEFUCK.

NuttBoxer says

What if I didn't agree to the terms and never signed? OHH, YOU'D START THE UNLAWFUL DETAINER SUIT. AHAHAHAHAHA!!!

on a month to month lease, the landlord can change the rent to anything they want, and/or terminate the lease with one month's notice. No signature needed. (some few california rent control cities have different rules but that is the general rule)

you are one of those trash dumbfucks who think they know what they are doing, but actually doesn't.

it may work out your way this time, but the risk/reward ratio on your course of action is just stupidly tilted against your decision. I have literally destroyed assholes like you in court. Your landlord could sign a lease with someone else, promising them the place literally for the day after your lease expires, that person shows up from NY with a truck full of stuff and no where to go. Then, they sue the landlord, and you for: motel for the 2 weeks, truck rental fees for 2 weeks, restaurant meals for the family for 2 weeks since they can't cook at home. ALL legitimate. Why? because you were given legal notice to leave, and choose not to.

the last jackass tenant like you I had, I left his credit in flames. I actually paid the extra $20 to record the small claims judgement against him and his wife on county public records too, just to make sure it kills his ability to rent or buy for years to come.

grow up. you created this situation by not taking your lease turns as serious. quit being a spoiled entitled little child.

blowmeironvagina says

with one month's notice.

Code of Civil procedure Section 1161.3.

Two months if you've inhabited the dwelling for over a year. For a landowner, you don't know much about California rent laws...