patrick.net

RafiMaas says

Sounds like a great idea. Certainly it can't cost too much, what is stopping the US from doing the same? If other governments can come up with the money to issue voter IDs to their citizes surly the US government can come up with the money too.

"Some People" don't want voters having to show ID. Many states, like Washington, are entirely on the "Honor System" so they don't check for the validity of the voting.

Because they're on the honor system, they have no means to verify that fraudulent voting is happening, so they say "We have no evidence of fraudulent voting!"

If you don't look for something, you won't find it.

That's the lawfare trick to "Illegal Voting doesn't happen". You can't find what you don't look for.

There are numerous cases of proven illegal voting and voter fraud. This is fact. Calling it a myth is being anti-fact.

steverbeaver says

There are numerous cases of proven illegal voting and voter fraud. This is fact. Calling it a myth is being anti-fact.

So show the numerous cases of proven illegal voting and voter fraud. Remember Kobach sec of state kansas? The man spearheading trumps voter fraud complaints? He has testified about his review of 84 million votes cast in 22 states, which yielded 14 instances of fraud referred for prosecution, which amounts to a 0.00000017 percent fraud rate.

So 0.00000017 percent is numerous How does that work? I define numerous a different way.

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

bob2356 says

steverbeaver says

There are numerous cases of proven illegal voting and voter fraud. This is fact. Calling it a myth is being anti-fact.

So show the numerous cases of proven illegal voting and voter fraud. Remember Kobach sec of state kansas? The man spearheading trumps voter fraud complaints? He has testified about his review of 84 million votes cast in 22 states, which yielded 14 instances of fraud referred for prosecution, which amounts to a 0.00000017 percent fraud rate.

So 0.00000017 percent is numerous How does that work? I define numerous a different way.

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud-myth

That's a disingenuous argument. Democratic states REFUSED to provide the voter fraud commission the data they needed to validate if fraud was happening. It's funny..."show me instances where significant voter fraud is happening". Well, it's likely happening in Democratic states who won't let the issue be investigated, so it must mean it's not happening.

RafiMaas says

The only reason people want to require ID is to disenfranchise the poor, it's sad that they can't be honest about their real reason they want to have people provide ID.

No. The real reason is to stop voter fraud.

Aphroman says

What voter fraud?

Have to agree with you there. The whole system is a fraud when we are asked to choose (what we perceive ) to be the lesser of evils.
Raise your hand if you thought Hillary was a good candidate?

Fourteen cases of fraud is "numerous". Also keep in mind that as others pointed out, he was given conditioned data they thought was clean.
We aren't asking to take away your voter rights. We are simply asking for some common-sense vote integrity controls.

RafiMaas says

This is new to me. Federal law requires, when registering to vote, to put a driver license number or last 4 of SSN. I've looked and can't find were it says certain states don't check the validity of their registered voters.

Ensuring the security of the American election process is a worthy goal for the Advisory Commission on Election Integrity. As the Supreme Court said in 2008 when it upheld Indiana’s voter ID law, the U.S. has a long and well-documented history of election fraud, and fraud could make the difference in a close election.

The “honor” system we have for voter registration and voting is unreliable. The Heritage Foundation maintains a database of almost 1,100 proven cases of election fraud. Millions of deceased individuals remain registered. Others are registered in multiple states.

Many of these are administrative errors, but some involve fraud. How big is that problem and what steps should states take? We don’t know, because there hasn’t been any comprehensive study of these issues.

OUR VIEW:Trump's 'election integrity' panel is a sham

But we certainly have indications of the extent of the problem. A recent report from the Government Accountability Institute, comparing voter registration lists and voter histories in just 21 states, found almost 8,500 individuals who illegally voted in more than one state in the 2016 election. GAI estimated as many at 45,000 individuals in all 50 states may have voted more than once.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/27/voting-honor-system-unreliable-heritage-foundation-editorials-debates/105036600/

Honor System literally means it's your word alone. And States set their own voting rules, not the Federal Government.

RafiMaas says

Federal law requires, when registering to vote....

That is false.

Also, some municipalities (e.g. San Francisco) have begun registering illegal aliens to vote in local elections.

RafiMaas says

Federal law requires, when registering to vote, to put a driver license number or last 4 of SSN.

In CA illegals are issued the same DLs citizens get (unless the latter explicitly express the desire to get a Real ID and suffer a whole day ordeal at the DMV). So nothing prevents an illegal to register and vote in CA.

curious2 says

That is false.

Also, some municipalities (e.g. San Francisco) have begun registering illegal aliens to vote in local elections.

source?


Hassan_Rouhani says

In CA illegals are issued the same DLs citizens get (unless the latter explicitly express the desire to get a Real ID and suffer a whole day ordeal at the DMV). So nothing prevents an illegal to register and vote in CA.

That's false.

LeonDurham says

Hassan_Rouhani says

In CA illegals are issued the same DLs citizens get (unless the latter explicitly express the desire to get a Real ID and suffer a whole day ordeal at the DMV). So nothing prevents an illegal to register and vote in CA.

That's false.

Which part? The part where anyone can obtain a CA DL w/o proving he's in the country legally, let alone a citizen? Not false at all - it's a fucking law. What else?

LeonDurham says

source?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/SF-gave-undocumented-immigrants-voting-rights-12726237.php

Hassan_Rouhani says

Which part? The part where anyone can obtain a CA DL w/o proving he's in the country legally, let alone a citizen? Not false at all - it's a fucking law. What else?

Oh, but don't worry, when they hold state and local and Federal voting on the same day, by magic the non-citizen doesn't choose any Federal Candidates, so it's okay.

Anybody who says otherwise is a paranoid ignorant fascist.

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says

Oh, but don't worry, when they hold state and local and Federal voting on the same day, by magic the non-citizen doesn't choose any Federal Candidates, so it's okay.

You mean, the people who knowingly and willfully broke number of laws in order to "better their lifes" will suddenly obey another seldom enforced law? Do you also have an iron bridge for sale? I'm looking for one right now....

Hassan_Rouhani says

You mean, the people who knowingly and willfully broke number of laws in order to "better their lifes" will suddenly obey another seldom enforced law? Do you also have an iron bridge for sale? I'm looking for one right now....

C'mon Hassan, you know wherever non-citizens can vote the School Board Election is also the second Tuesday in November, they don't get the general ballot that includes Federal Offices.

That would never happen.

All you need a name. Voting lady will tell you your address, which you confirm with simple “yes”. And you can vote never showing a single id.

RafiMaas says

This is new to me. Federal law requires, when registering to vote, to put a driver license number or last 4 of SSN. I've looked and can't find were it says certain states don't check the validity of their registered voters.

Help America Vote ONLY applies those who register by mail.


And even the mail in requirement has massive loopholes:

At the time of voting, these first-time voters must submit either (a) a valid photo I.D.,
or (b) a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document showing their name and address. 13 However, voters are exempt from this requirement if, at the time of their mail-in registration, they submitted a copy of a current photo I.D., utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or government document showing their name and address. Voters are also exempt from showing I.D. at the polls, if they submitted their driver's license number or last four digits of their social security number with their mail-in registration, and this information was matched against an existing state I.D. record

https://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/ebook/part5/hava.html

You can be a non-valid voter (not a citizen) and yet have:
* Utility bill
* Bank satement
* Paycheck

with a name and address on it. It is "OR" not "AND" a photo ID.

The best way is to have a voter picture ID card, for which you need a birth certificate or naturalization papers to obtain.

I don't mind paying for free birth certificates.

Most countries do this, including ones far, far, far poorer than the US.

And just to head it off at the pass:

Don't talk to me about $500 per person/month guaranteed income for every citizen, when you balk at the few bucks per person once every 2 years that voter verification would cost.

RafiMaas says

to pay for a voter ID

Pay? Who said anything about charging people?

https://www.breitbart.com/2018-elections/2018/08/15/exclusive-eric-eggers-nearly-250-counties-have-more-registered-voters-than-eligible-voters/

Nearly 250 Counties Have More Registered Voters than Eligible Voters

RafiMaas says

Patrick says

RafiMaas says

to pay for a voter ID

Pay? Who said anything about charging people?

Really? Can you show me one state that has paid for voter IDs that has enacted voter ID laws. No you can't because they are designed to disenfranchis voters.

It's harsh, but so what. What's the big deal if it "disenfranchises" voters? If I own a fortune 500 company, say Walmart (fuck them FYI), I'm not going to ask the bagger to vote on important issues within the company. Like I said, it's a harsh point of view and not necessarily how our country was meant to operate, but at some point, if you can't afford say a $5-10 ID, then get lost.

There really is zero excuse for not being able to go out and get an ID. If someone can't or complains about it, they're just lazy in my opinion. You want lazy people picking who decides our policies, laws, etc? I sure don't. And maybe that's not American, but just being honest. You can't complain about a $10 ID when it literally takes something like 1.1 hours to get that money. There are 720 hours roughly in a month. Spending 1-2 of them to get an ID and having a problem with that is a bit goofy.