patrick.net

Dan8267 says

Bull-fucking-shit! I do not choose whether or not to believe in your false god.

We know Dan. But that is your choice. And it is not intelligent or honest.

PeopleUnited proves that Christianity is as dangerous as Islam. If assholes like him ever became a large enough minority, they'd wage a religious war against everyone else.

Dan8267 says

A mother dies and goes to heaven. Meanwhile on Earth her daughter is brutally raped. How the fuck could the mother be in perfect bliss? Hitler goes to hell, but Hitler's mom goes to heaven. How can any mother be happy when her child is being tortured for all eternity? Oh, Hitler's mom is also in hell? Then her mother can't be happy in heaven. OK with that? Keep regressing until you get to a common ancestor of you and Hitler. That ancestor and all others can't be perfectly happy either.

And once again, just as Dan cannot understand the Zen master story, he also does not understand what miracle God works in people's hearts when they are saved. When a person accepts the forgiveness of God, He not only forgives them, He gives them the ability to overcome their sins. On of those sins is being unwilling to forgive. A mother of a raped child (knowing that she is as guilty as the rapist, and yet was forgiven) who is Christian, has the ability to also forgive: the rapist, HItler, and any other scumbag. The reason you cannot understand this is that you don't understand forgiveness. You are bound by your negative emotions and living the hell on earth that the Zen master described.

www.youtube.com/embed/_uWMOZ0vaCY

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

PeopleUnited says

You are bound by your negative emotions and living the hell on earth that the Zen master described.

Yes, there is objective reality, but it has no meaning without subjective interpretation, and you do have some control over that. Hamlet: "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

The first chapter of the Dhammapada is about this idea: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

Given that Buddhism was known in ancient Greece and Egypt, I would not be surprised if Jesus picked up some of this philosophy in Israel. He said very similar things.

Dan8267 says

www.youtube.com/embed/_uWMOZ0vaCY

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

The real question Dan is are you willing to forgive?

rando says

PeopleUnited says

You are bound by your negative emotions and living the hell on earth that the Zen master described.

Yes, there is objective reality, but it has no meaning without subjective interpretation, and you do have some control over that. Hamlet: "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

The first chapter of the Dhammapada is about this idea: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.01.budd.html

Given that Buddhism was known in ancient Greece and Egypt, I would not be surprised if Jesus picked up some of this philosophy in Israel. He said very similar things.

The wisdom you have shared is appreciated. There are pieces of truth in the teachings you have cited. Jesus however, was not influenced by anything other than His relationship with His heavenly father and the Holy Spirit, His experience on earth as a human, and the Word of God which he meditated on. Jesus was not a capable of lying and if He thought people should study some other source of wisdom than the Bible He would have said so.

PeopleUnited says

Jesus however, was not influenced by anything other than His relationship with His heavenly father and the Holy Spirit, His experience on earth as a human, and the Word of God which he meditated on

God killed/subsequent resurrection is very common in Near East mythologies. Osiris is a well-known example. It is very likely that Jewish mythology, which Jesus is a part of, was heavily influenced by Egyptian mythology (just like Hebrew writing originates in Egyptian hieroglyphs). A question which a rational person can ask is - why should we believe in Jesus and not Osiris?

Back to the original topic: The story of the young man who was fired by Google for circulating his opinion is corporate sponsored censorship. It is an attempt to create a safe zone. It is a lot like Dan's threads. You can only work for Google if you are willing to live by their alternate facts. You can only post on Dan's threads until you refuse to accept his alternate facts.

PeopleUnited says

There are pieces of truth in the teachings you have cited.

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

PeopleUnited says

The story of the young man who was fired by Google for circulating his opinion is corporate sponsored censorship. It is an attempt to create a safe zone.

We are in absolute agreement there.

PeopleUnited says

The real question Dan is are you willing to forgive?

Don't try to dodge the question.

Dan8267 says

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

rando says

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

+1000000000

PeopleUnited says

It is an attempt to create a safe zone. It is a lot like Dan's threads. You can only work for Google if you are willing to live by their alternate facts. You can only post on Dan's threads until you refuse to accept his alternate facts.

More lies.

Most people on PatNet aren't assholes. About a dozen people are. They constantly troll. Banning a troll from your threads is not censorship anymore than not inviting assholes into your house to harass you is censorship.

Nor is it creating a safe place to not invite trolls into your room. Fail healers aren't invited into conferences on cancer for a reason.

Nor is what Google did even remotely close. Firing someone for violating political correctness is both scary and illegal in California. The author is right to sue. Hopefully he will win.

I'll tell you what my banning of your ass is really like. Imagine if I went into a church during mass, walked up to the podium, and started stating all the reasons why Christianity is bullshit and its god does not exist. I'd be kicked out immediately, the police would arrest me for trespassing, and I'd be given a police order to never return to that church under punishment of arrest. Unless you are for atheists being allowed to disrupt masses with speeches on why the Christian god is false, you are a complete hypocrite.

drBu says

A question which a rational person can ask is - why should we believe in Jesus and not Osiris?

This is a rational question.

The simple answer is that Jesus keeps His promises. No other source can make this claim.

Acts
5 The next day the rulers, the elders and the teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6 Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and others of the high priest’s family. 7 They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: “By what power or what name did you do this?” 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is “‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

Psalm 18:30
God's way is perfect. All the LORD's promises prove true. He is a shield for all who look to him for protection.

rando says

I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity.

Philosophy can only work if it is not combined with religion because religion will always corrupt and twist any philosophy no matter how good. And religion does nothing to enhance philosophy. Reason and evidence does.

rando says

No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

I'm pretty sure that PeopleUnited would have a problem with others worshiping Buddha as a god -- and I know Buddhists don't do this, but that's not the point -- and telling others to do so as well. Yet Buddha's philosophy is at least as nice as Jesus's.

And Buddha came first, so if anyone's the copy, it's Jesus.

Dan8267 says

Don't try to dodge the question.

To cowardly to address this?

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

The real question Dan is are you willing to forgive?

Don't try to dodge the question.

Dan8267 says

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

There are two kinds of people in heaven, the innocent, and the forgiven.
God created hell as a place for the devil and his angels, but there is one kind of person who will go there as well, the guilty.

Was she innocent, forgiven or guilty? God only knows.

But again, only someone who lacks understanding of what forgiveness is would have a problem with this event, or the words of the former Google employee.

PeopleUnited says

The simple answer is that Jesus keeps His promises. No other source can make this claim.

We do not know this more about Jesus than Osiris (e.i why should we believe claim about Jesus and not Osiris)

rando says

PeopleUnited says

There are pieces of truth in the teachings you have cited.

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

drBu says

rando says

I feel the same about Jesus. I'm a fan of his philosophy, but not a believer in His divinity. No problem with me that you believe and want to tell others about it though.

+1000000000

Thanks @Patrick and @drBu. You are evidence that civility can exist in the midst of disagreement.

Unfortunately totalitarian thinking is what dominates our universities, many corporations, and religious institutions. Each group seeks to control thoughts and punish those who dare question the dominant paradigm. It is the new slavery. A slavery of the mind. By the power of these organizations, people are chained to live inside the ideology of that organization. You are banished to live without a job, a church family, or a degree if you are not willing to bow to the narrative of those in power. These trends are actually accelerating.

PeopleUnited says

civility can exist in the midst of disagreement

If we are not trying to force our beliefs on others, then there is no reason to be vile in discussions. A polite discussion will make all of us more knowledgeable.

drBu says

PeopleUnited says

The simple answer is that Jesus keeps His promises. No other source can make this claim.

We do not know this more about Jesus than Osiris (e.i why should we believe claim about Jesus and not Osiris)

You should test it and see for yourself. Most people never really allow God's word a chance. Read the Bible check out Osiris and then you can decide. There is no shame in studying something and allowing yourself the opportunity to discover something new. I would suggest that seeking out someone who can share their experience/relationship with God may also be worthwhile but not necessary.

drBu says

PeopleUnited says

civility can exist in the midst of disagreement

If we are not trying to force our beliefs on others, then there is no reason to be vile in discussions. A polite discussion will make all of us more knowledgeable.

Well said my friend.

Dan and his tangents. Using tragedy of a confused little girl to promote his socialist agenda. You are despicable at times Dan.

And illogical. For example.

Dan8267 says

I'll tell you what my banning of your ass is really like. Imagine if I went into a church during mass, walked up to the podium, and started stating all the reasons why Christianity is bullshit and its god does not exist. I'd be kicked out immediately, the police would arrest me for trespassing, and I'd be given a police order to never return to that church under punishment of arrest. Unless you are for atheists being allowed to disrupt masses with speeches on why the Christian god is false, you are a complete hypocrite.

Dan, this is a discussion forum, not a church service. People don't come here to sit in a pew and listen to you. The come here to share ideas and receive feedback. You are so full of yourself to think people come here to listen to you like you are some kind of priest. Your analogy is more evidence of how you fail to understand what even this website is about.

PeopleUnited says

God only knows.

You are still dodging the question because it clearly demonstrates an unequivocal downside to the lie of the afterlife.

FortWayne says

Dan and his tangents. Using tragedy of a confused little girl to promote his socialist agenda. You are despicable at times Dan.

Bullshit. What is despicable is continuing to lie about an afterlife after this tragedy. That would be like taking no action after 9/11 to stop terrorism.

The entire point of history is to learn from the mistakes of the past and to not repeat them. There is a lesson to be learned from this tragedy, and that lesson is to not brainwash children into believing in a false afterlife.

If the afterlife was real, then this would not be a tragedy. So FortWayne, I ask you the same questions.

Dan8267 says

So it's a good thing that this 12-year-old girl killed herself then? After all, she's in heaven with her dad, and her mom should just kill herself too, so that she can be with her husband a child, right?

Or are you saying this 12-year-old girl is burning in hell right now?

Man up and answer those questions or stop brainwashing people with your despicable religion and lies of an afterlife.

Perception of reality matters because people act on that perception even when it is false.

PeopleUnited says

civility can exist in the midst of disagreement.

Practice what you preach.

PeopleUnited says

The wisdom you have shared is appreciated.

What a liar. In other words, other religions are bullshit, including Zoroastrianism which had the savior thing in it, centuries before Christ.

So the next lines are ...

PeopleUnited says

Jesus however, was not influenced by anything other than His relationship with His heavenly father and the Holy Spirit, His experience on earth as a human, and the Word of God which he meditated on. Jesus was not a capable of lying and if He thought people should study some other source of wisdom than the Bible He would have said so.

Yes, Patrick and others, your ideas are BS. Only PU's Christian ideas are true, because he'd been channeling spiritual entities, just like Paul, back in the time. Remember, Paul had never met Jesus... it was a vision, during his collapse on the road to Damascus.

You see, ppl like PU pray and meditate and then this entity, pretending to be a bearded man, appears in front of them, giving him the truth.

Sorry PU, but aside from your channeling experiences, you can't corroborate anything you're saying.

Dan8267 says

Bullshit. What is despicable is continuing to lie about an afterlife after this tragedy. That would be like taking no action after 9/11 to stop terrorism.

This has nothing to do with 9/11, there is no parallel. You are just going off on tangents again showing how your hatred blinded your reality.

FortWayne says

This has nothing to do with 9/11, there is no parallel.

The parallel is that religious beliefs cause people to behave irrationally. Religious brainwashing of children causes them to lose a gripe on reality that persists into adulthood.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

civility can exist in the midst of disagreement.

Practice what you preach.

Dan you happen to be the most uncivil person posting on this thread. When you pull the beam out of your eye... we can talk.

Rin says

PeopleUnited says

The wisdom you have shared is appreciated.

What a liar. In other words, other religions are bullshit, including Zoroastrianism which had the savior thing in it, centuries before Christ.

So the next lines are ...

PeopleUnited says

Jesus however, was not influenced by anything other than His relationship with His heavenly father and the Holy Spirit, His experience on earth as a human, and the Word of God which he meditated on. Jesus was not a capable of lying and if He thought people should study some other source of wisdom than the Bible He would have said so.

Yes, Patrick and others,

Rin, I sincerely appreciate truth no matter who said it. And I sincerely despise lies which is what it would be to equate Jesus with a man who learned from Zen teachers. So I appreciate any truth you have to share. But the gist of your message is that you are pissed about someone having faith that you don't understand. I'm not asking you to like it, but I would ask you to consider what you will say to God when you meet Him.

Dan8267 says

PeopleUnited says

God only knows.

You are still dodging the question because it clearly demonstrates an unequivocal downside to the lie of the afterlife.

The only downside to the afterlife is for those who are guilty.

PeopleUnited says

But the gist of your message is that you are pissed about someone having faith that you don't understand. I'm not asking you to like it, but I would ask you to consider what you will say to God when you meet Him.

Actually, I think that it's you who knows shit.

And no, I'm not afraid of dying at the age of [ 80 to whenever ] and meeting those entities in the so-called "light".

Christians, like New Agers, are also channeling entities and these things have fooled countless humans including you.

PeopleUnited says

The only downside to the afterlife is for those who are guilty.

You're guilty of drooling self-righteousness.

Cut/Paste for others on this thread. I'm done with this boring discussion.

--------------------

Many centuries before Christianity, the ancient Persians (READ: Not Muslim, but Zoroastrian) had an Avestan term for Savior, the Saoshyant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saoshyant

And then, in their own 'Book of Revelations', ok, it wasn't called that before the Roman Empire ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frashokereti

Excerpt: "At the end of the "third time" (the first being the age of creation, the second of mixture, and the third of separation), there will be a great battle between the forces of good (the yazatas) and those of evil (the daevas) in which the good will triumph. On earth, the Saoshyant will bring about a resurrection of the dead in the bodies they had before they died. This is followed by a last judgment through ordeal. The yazatas Airyaman and Atar will melt the metal in the hills and mountains, and the molten metal will then flow across the earth like a river. All mankind—both the living and the resurrected dead—will be required to wade through that river, but for the righteous (ashavan) it will seem to be a river of warm milk, while the wicked will be burned."

PeopleUnited says

The only downside to the afterlife is for those who are guilty.

So you're saying that 12-year-old girl's suicide has no downside? Wow, that's a crappy thing to say.

Rin says

Actually, I think that it's you who knows shit.

And no, I'm not afraid of dying at the age of [ 80 to whenever ] and meeting those entities in the so-called "light".

Could you elaborate? I don't catch your meaning or reasoning?