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5

Pence walks out of Colts Game

By TwoScoopsMcGee following x   2017 Oct 8, 2:10pm 729 views   79 comments   watch   quote     share  






"Don't worry, we'll pick up the Milenials. They're all about Social Justice!"

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40 errc   2017 Oct 9, 9:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
It’s nice to see that pretty much all Americans disapprove of the Trump/Pence GOP stunt.

Those idiots thought that they would draw support for this publicity stunt, where they attempt to harm Americans and our economy. Not today, Failed Losers! Take that crap to North Korea where it belongs.
41 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 9, 9:35am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
errc says


So then what exactly is your gripe?

Or do you even know anymore?


Do you think a McDonald's Cashier who tells each customer: "Thank You, and think about all the cows you murdered!" is not going to be fired?
42 justme   2017 Oct 9, 9:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Does freedom of speech include the right not to speak? I think so.

Does the constitution therefore disallow employers from compelling employees to speak or express certain political views? Again, I think so.

These are serious questions, and should be taken seriously. Freedom is not, and should not be, a popularity contest.
43 justme   2017 Oct 9, 9:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says
So your employer would be OK with you hanging ISIS flags and Antifa flags all over where his paying customers will see them?


No, you disingenuous dumbass. We are talking about the right of employees not to have to be compelled to express the political views of their employers.
44 errc   2017 Oct 9, 9:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
errc says


So then what exactly is your gripe?

Or do you even know anymore?


Do you think a McDonald's Cashier who tells each customer: "Thank You, and think about all the cows you murdered!" is not going to be fired?


That’s up to McDonalds. I’m thinking that the manager would have a talk with them, and if it continued, they would be let go.

Now answer my question
45 justme   2017 Oct 9, 9:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says
So your employer would be OK with you hanging ISIS flags and Antifa flags all over where his paying customers will see them?


No, you disingenous person. We are talking about the right of employees not to have to be compelled to express the political views of their employers.

(move to paraphrase, your honor. Someone thought my response was uncivil, apparently)
46 justme   2017 Oct 9, 10:01am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
@Patrick, waah my comments are disappearing and I can't even find them in the uncivil comment jail. What up with that?

UPDATE: I just discovered that when I add a comment on a page that is full, then the comment will spill to the next page, BUT refresh does not get me to the new page. That might also be a bug, I have never experienced that before.
47 Patrick   2017 Oct 9, 10:06am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Thanks for telling me! Did you get an email saying it was marked uncivil?
48 justme   2017 Oct 9, 10:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
@Patrick, no email received, the problem is something else, see update above.
49 me123   2017 Oct 9, 10:25am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
justme says
me123 says
So your employer would be OK with you hanging ISIS flags and Antifa flags all over where his paying customers will see them?


No, you disingenuous dumbass. We are talking about the right of employees not to have to be compelled to express the political views of their employers.


So, if your employer came out and said he disputes And has a big issue with the message of ISIS and Antifa, you still feel it's your right to hang ISIS flags and Antifa flags in your employer's building and you wouldn't expect any backlash?

Just trying to understand how twisted in the head you are.
50 komputodo   2017 Oct 9, 10:29am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
errc says
It’s nice to see that pretty much all Americans disapprove of the Trump/Pence GOP stunt.


I would think that the 300 mil americans could give a crap about the 1000 or so that actually comment on this stuff.
51 komputodo   2017 Oct 9, 10:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
bob2356 says
The kneeling for the national anthem and flag, however, isn't punished.


That means the owners agree with the players.


Umm, I think not. All it means is that the owners know that by punishing the players, it will harm themselves even more. It's all about self interest like everything else in the world.
52 me123   2017 Oct 9, 10:39am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
justme says
Does the constitution therefore disallow employers from compelling employees to speak or express certain political views? Again, I think so.


When employees are on company time and being paid, they are required to follow the guidelines and wishes of the company, as they are a reflection of that company.

Is that concept so difficult for you to understand?

Where do you work?
53 iwog   2017 Oct 9, 10:48am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
Not at all. Pence is a representative of the United States Government. The symbols being disrespected are symbols of that Government.


You just attempted to make the argument that disrespecting a vice president is the same as disrespecting America. Your argument is shit and you've forgotten who is accountable to whom.

Also I again point out that it's only your forced interpretation that these players are disrespecting the United States of America. You're a special offended snowflake and so is Pence.

I'll also point out that disrespecting the government is VERY patriotic as well as entirely American and Thomas Jefferson would have your stupid head on a spit by now.

Also (lots of points to be made here) it is idiotic to be focusing so much attention on this issue when your great orange ape continues to beat his chest about a fairness doctrine for late night comics. You think football players are disrespecting the constitution? Your idiot president wants to shred it.
54 iwog   2017 Oct 9, 11:01am   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        
Reprinted here because it's hilarious.

55 errc   2017 Oct 9, 11:04am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Ouch. Take it easy on these special snowflakes, they are unstable
56 justme   2017 Oct 9, 11:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says
When employees are on company time and being paid, they are required to follow the guidelines and wishes of the company, as they are a reflection of that company.


Let's use the shorthand (1) to designate the above statement by me123. Statement (1) is balderdash. No company (in the US) can legally require or compel employees to follow the company's POLITICAL wishes. If you think that is allowed in the US, then to you have lost your mind. If you WANT (1) to be true, then you are the worst kind of totalitarian fascist. Why do you hate freedom so much?

If (1) were true, a company could even prescribe who you vote for in elections. If we were a banana republic with no individual rights, the following memo might land in your inbox:

MEMO to all employees: Every year, on election days, mandatory overtime is in effect during voting hours. You may visit voting stations during that time, but since you are on company time and pay, you are instructed to vote for candidate X. No vacation or personal time off will be granted on election days. Employees that do not follow instructions are subject to dismissal.
57 anonymous   2017 Oct 9, 11:17am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Why don't these grown overpaid men neal in neighborhoods where people are being killed every day. This crap is a bunch of bull crap so please get the hell up off of your knee unless you really want to make a difference. You're always fighting a damn cause but can't fix a damn thing. I'm not impressed at all... I'd walk the hell off as well... Don't blame others for bad choices in your life and stop letting damn white rich liberals make everyone a damn victim. You're a victim of your self if you don't have a damn education. Hell, I'm Native American and sick of this same stupid ass excuses as for the most part a damn white man is not your problem except for the ones who hand out the lazy welfare....
58 justme   2017 Oct 9, 1:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Wowee wow-wow. The right-wing snowflakes really are having a meltdown today. Faced with logic and proper analogies, they are left speechless.
59 me123   2017 Oct 9, 1:52pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
justme says
No company (in the US) can legally require or compel employees to follow the company's POLITICAL wishes. If you think that is allowed in the US, then to you have lost your mind.


@justme

ESPN just suspended Jemele Hill for her "political" statements. What do you think of that? Fascism??
60 me123   2017 Oct 9, 1:55pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
justme says
Faced with logic


Logic...

Maybe they should use helicopters with bright spotlights..

Or, if the cops can show up and shoot an unarmed, wait, make that a armed guy.

Yep, logic.
61 justme   2017 Oct 9, 2:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says
ESPN just suspended Jemele Hill for her "political" statements. What do you think of that? Fascism??


Wrong. Jemele Hill was suspended for "violating ESPN social media guidelines". Perhaps you can dig up the guidelines and see what guideline she might have run afoul, so that we can have a crack at determining whether the guideline is legal or not?

It could be something as simple as politicking on company time and pay, or using a company-provided computing platform to do so, who knows?

Why do I have to do all the work? Engage the brain and investigate it yourself. Maybe Hill has a case than can go all the way to SCOTUS?
62 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 9, 2:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
I'm saving this for posterity:
.

Rhodes is so confident in his Elite Opinion he has no idea he was an obvious hypocrite in just one tweet.

What I agree with: Protest
When I disagree with: Culture War Stunt

Keep it up, Left!
63 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 9, 2:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
justme says
No, you disingenuous dumbass. We are talking about the right of employees not to have to be compelled to express the political views of their employers.


That's not what the NFL Players are doing. They're deliberately making a political gesture.

The NFL fines Players for flipping the bird, dancing too long in the end zone, wearing unauthorized Eye Black, saying "Dammit", etc. etc. etc.. Why isn't that subject to "Free Speech"?

errc says
Now answer my question


It's don't know how many times I've made it as obvious as I can but I'll make it again: The NFL is selectively determining what "Free Speech" they will tolerate as "Free Speech" while saying other "Free Speech" isn't "Free Speech" subject to fines and suspensions.
64 me123   2017 Oct 9, 3:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
justme says
It could be something as simple as politicking on company time and pay, or using a company-provided computing platform to do so, who knows?

Why do I have to do all the work?


We're trying to educate you here. Sadly, it's not working. Maybe if we used a really bright spotlight from a helicopter, the logic might stick.

GO read ESPN's statement why she was suspended and report back and tell us if it had anything to do with free speech as an employee.
65 justme   2017 Oct 9, 4:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
It's don't know how many times I've made it as obvious as I can but I'll make it again: The NFL is selectively determining what "Free Speech" they will tolerate as "Free Speech" while saying other "Free Speech" isn't "Free Speech" subject to fines and suspensions.


I disagree. It is the NFL that has chosen to integrate a 2-minute political ceremony into their football games. That ceremony being political speech, my interpretation is that employees of the NFL may choose to exercise their right not to speak, or speak differently than their employer. Otherwise the NFL is compelling the players to speak a certain opinion, which I deem to be unconstitutional and an affront to basic individual freedom.

Other NFL rules that appear to swearing (etc) during games are just workplace civility rules. Those are common, whether explicit or implicit, in most if not all workplaces.

Do you see the difference?
66 iwog   2017 Oct 9, 5:24pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
justme says
It is the NFL that has chosen to integrated a 2-minute political ceremony into their football games


This.

TwoScoopsMcGee says
The NFL is selectively determining what "Free Speech" they will tolerate as "Free Speech" while saying other "Free Speech" isn't "Free Speech" subject to fines and suspensions.


Ummmmm so what? Management allows you to say "Cock" and "Pussy" in a strip club. Management does not let you say "Cock" and "Pussy" in a preschool. WTF is your point???
67 me123   2017 Oct 9, 6:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
justme says
my interpretation


and that's where you always run off the track.
68 me123   2017 Oct 9, 6:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
justme says
I disagree. It is the NFL that has chosen to integrate a 2-minute political ceremony into their football games. That ceremony being political speech, my interpretation is that employees of the NFL may choose to exercise their right not to speak, or speak differently than their employer.


@justme

Sadly, you're wrong, it's part of their rules, just like your employer has rules of conduct:

Here’s what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/25/does-nfl-require-players-stand-national-anthem
justme says
Other NFL rules that appear to swearing (etc) during games are just workplace civility rules. Those are common, whether explicit or implicit, in most if not all workplaces.

Do you see the difference?


Do players get to pick and choose which rules they will follow? Do you pick and choose which laws you follow when driving?

There is no difference (except in your head).
69 anonymous   2017 Oct 9, 6:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
The culture wars will never end with the douche Dotard. It's the only front on which he knows how to advance. Everywhere else he's just a vulgar miscreant shitting on history.
70 errc   2017 Oct 9, 7:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking

———————-

Must be on sideline

Should stand at attention.

I never realized that you were simply an uneducated immigrant from a 3rd world shithole, with no grasp on our language.

Must denotes a requirement
Should is simply a suggestion.
71 errc   2017 Oct 9, 7:28pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
It's don't know how many times I've made it as obvious as I can but I'll make it again: The NFL is selectively determining what "Free Speech" they will tolerate as "Free Speech" while saying other "Free Speech" isn't "Free Speech" subject to fines and suspensions.

——————-

I’m being dead ass honest here: what is the problem and what is your solution? Are they breaking some kind of law? Or merely hurting your feelings?
72 me123   2017 Oct 9, 9:46pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
me123 says
justme says
Does the constitution therefore disallow employers from compelling employees to speak or express certain political views? Again, I think so.


When employees are on company time and being paid, they are required to follow the guidelines and wishes of the company, as they are a reflection of that company.

Is that concept so difficult for you to understand?


@justme

Well look at that:



ESPN didn't like the way she was representing the company. Damn, I was right again.

justme says
me123 says
ESPN just suspended Jemele Hill for her "political" statements. What do you think of that? Fascism??


Wrong. Jemele Hill was suspended for "violating ESPN social media guidelines". Perhaps you can dig up the guidelines and see what guideline she might have run afoul, so that we can have a crack at determining whether the guideline is legal or not?


...suspended for "violating ESPN social media guidelines", and NOT politics?? Do you Really think that??

As a reminder, after her last outburst, here is what ESPN president John Skipper said in a memo to staffers:
"ESPN is about sports... It is not a political organization."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-09/espns-jamele-hill-urges-fans-boycott-anti-kneeling-nfl-advertisers

Hey @justme, why are you always so consistently WRONG?
73 me123   2017 Oct 10, 9:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
errc says
Should stand at attention.

I never realized that you were simply an uneducated immigrant from a 3rd world shithole, with no grasp on our language.

Must denotes a requirement
Should is simply a suggestion.


Really?? a "suggestion"?

Definition of "Should" in English (from the Oxford ENGLISH dictionary):
1.0 Used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.
1.1 Indicating a desirable or expected state.


So, if it's a "suggestion", if your employer tells you "should" report for work at 8 AM, you can ignore his request, and show up at 10AM or 11AM?? How long would he put up with that?

Talking about not having a "grasp":
Dean Vernon Wormer: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son." (Animal House. )
74 errc   2017 Oct 10, 9:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
"The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking

——————

The National Anthem Must be played

Must be on the sideline for the National Anthem


During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking


Two requirements, one suggestion

Sounds like the name for another movie, where you’re the feces slurping star, again.

Hahahaha you are so pathetic
75 justme   2017 Oct 10, 9:24am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
me123 thinks that an employer can compel (force) all the employees to express political speech in agreement with the employer's wishes. I say no, an employer cannot do that. It really is that simple.

And the mere fact that me123 WANTS his claim to be true tells a lot about what kind of person me123 is. He is a totalitarian, a fascist and hates freedom.
76 errc   2017 Oct 10, 9:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
justme says
me123 thinks that an employer can compel (force) all the employees to express political speech in agreement with the employer's wishes. I say no, an employer cannot do that. It really is that simple.

And the mere fact that me123 WANTS his claim to be true tells a lot about what kind of person me123 is. He is a totalitarian, a fascist and hates freedom.


Tell us something we don’t know about me123 Paddock.
77 PCGyver   2017 Oct 10, 9:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
errc says
justme says
me123 is a totalitarian, a fascist and hates freedom.


Tell us something we don’t know about me123


I'm guessing you already know about the goats.
78 me123   2017 Oct 10, 9:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
justme says
me123 thinks that an employer can compel (force) all the employees to express political speech in agreement with the employer's wishes. I say no, an employer cannot do that. It really is that simple.


So how many millions will Jemele Hill get from ESPN?
79 me123   2017 Oct 10, 9:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
justme says
And the mere fact that me123 WANTS his claim to be true tells a lot about what kind of person me123 is. He is a totalitarian, a fascist and hates freedom.


and when Facts and Proof interfere with @justme and his "Perception of Reality", the only thing left is a personal attack.

So sad.

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