patrick.net

anonymous says

Whatever break you think you are going to get from Washington will get taken away by local and state taxes.

That is the current status, yes.

The philosophy has long been that taxpayers should not have to pay double, meaning that if they support their SALT funds, they can catch a break from federal. The states are not going to simply reduce their taxes. Real life doesn't work that way.

anotheraccount says

It's ok companies like Coke will "invest" when they bring money back from oversees at a discount.

I am torn on this topic. On the one hand, we should not be encouraging the largest corporations to seek global havens. On the other, trickle-down has not historically materialized hence the moniker "voodoo economics."

NewOldUser says

The states are not going to simply reduce their taxes. Real life doesn't work that way.

You mean states aren't subject to austerity? Why? If you live in California still, or any high tax state that imposes a high individual or corporate tax burden, you really should ask yourself why you think your statement above is true.

NewOldUser says

On the other, trickle-down has not historically materialized hence the moniker "voodoo economics."

Trickle down does absolutely work. There is more personal wealth in the Western World than there has been individually in recorded human history across any nation on the Earth. Just because there are poor people doesn't mean that a highly profitable and hot private sector ISN'T a good thing.

Apple has a market cap approaching a Trillion dollars. How many people does the company employ? How many have cushy benefits plans? How many have bought nice homes in the Bay Area due to their huge salaries? How is this not an example of trickle down economics?

Goran_K says

So the whole "SALT Is going to make poor people pay more" is a bit of a stretch since they overwhelmingly take the standard deduction anyway, and even if they do itemize, wow, a solid $50 a month hit. That's about the monthly impact of the recent gas tax for most commuters in Los Angeles, but Democrats are gleefully onboard with that. Not to mention the extra $25 to $175 per vehicle on top.

Lots of dishonesty being spread here.

Yes, and, as usual, you are the one spreading dishonesty.

Absolutely nobody is saying that eliminating the SALT deductions will hurt the poor. It will hurt the middle class, however, and THAT is what people are saying.

anon_3b28c says

Absolutely nobody is saying that eliminating the SALT deductions will hurt the poor. It will hurt the middle class, however, and THAT is what people are saying.

I just proved that it doesn't hurt the middle class. It actually will have very very little effect on them in most states not named California. If you want to complain about high tax burdens, and actually live in California, you're pointing your finger at the wrong people.

The only people I see crying about this are people who live in the Bay Area, SoCal, or any other pricey part of California.

Hope the Republicans enjoy their tax increase.
Has the U.S House of Republicans eliminated all Federal taxes on any money that paid any tax on any item,
no matter how small or do they approve of double taxation.?

Republicans' continuation of any tax is REDISTRIBUTION SOCIALISM!
"Increasing taxes" will be added to the Republican platform.
Brilliant plan to destroy America.
Hope everyone relishes Republicans' next step to Communism.

All the talk about which class gets tax increases is a waste.
A Republican tax increase is a Republican tax increase no matter what class one is in.
Voting Republican is a sure way to experience voter remorse.

Goran_K says

I just proved that it doesn't hurt the middle class

Actually you proved it does. More than half of the middle class use itemize. So you showed the exact opposite of what you claim.

Goran_K says

The only people I see crying about this are people who live in the Bay Area, SoCal, or any other pricey part of California

Open your eyes then.

anon_f1625 says

He/She got screwed at least twice - first time was at birth.

@WookieMan, this is what @Patrick is talking about.

@Patrick, anons probably should be blocked at this time. The above is someone who was put on ignore but still wants to troll. Why give them the chance?

Goran_K says

You mean states aren't subject to austerity? Why?

The wrong people will get hit by that. Yes, there are bad budgets and bad spending in CA. Federal funds are also wastefully dispersed in CA. Remember, the entire government is connected. There is no separate country.

If you are advocating a state bankruptcy in the largest state economy in the country, that is a very strange position to take in relation to MAGA.

anon_3b28c says

More than half of the middle class use itemize.

Correct, taking the position that the $200k to $500k taxpayers are not "middle class" is EXACTLY what was peddled by Obama Democrats.

Goran_K says

So the whole "SALT Is going to make poor people pay more" is a bit of a stretch since they overwhelmingly take the standard deduction anyway, and even if they do itemize, wow, a solid $50 a month hit.

Goran_K says

Lots of dishonesty being spread here.

That was the point I was making above. Most people don't even understand any of these tax proposals, they are just reacting to a specific sound bite from their MSM network of choice.

The majority of the middle class will get a benefit. Obviously, the ones making more money will see a bigger benefit? That's should be common sense.

What do these complainers want? Do they want the 47% of the population that doesn't pay ANY federal tax to get a tax break?

NewOldUser says

Goran_K says

You mean states aren't subject to austerity? Why?

The wrong people will get hit by that. Yes, there are bad budgets and bad spending in CA. Federal funds are also wastefully dispersed in CA. Remember, the entire government is connected. There is no separate country.

If you are advocating a state bankruptcy in the largest state economy in the country, that is a very strange position to take in relation to MAGA.

It’s already here. The CA pension unfunded liabilities are looking Illinois-like. The private tech sector is saving California from falling off the cliff (something Illinois lacks). But for how long?

anon_3b28c says

Goran_K says

I just proved that it doesn't hurt the middle class

Actually you proved it does. More than half of the middle class use itemize. So you showed the exact opposite of what you claim.

Goran_K says

The only people I see crying about this are people who live in the Bay Area, SoCal, or any other pricey part of California

Open your eyes then.

Bull.

Less than 30% of all under $100,000 earners Itemize. If you lower that to $30,000 a year it drops to 7%.

The SALT changes actually hit rich people the hardest and doesn’t even touch the majority of $100,000 and under earners. Stop watching CNN

If people in high COL states are so financially stretched thin because they bought way too much house and then can't take some hit on their tax deductions, that's on them. This is why so many people are screaming because they're hanging on by a thread so they can have that house on the hill and the Beamer. This is the reckoning for reckless financial spending, and I love it.

Why doesn’t the tax plan address the ISIS-like Christian Church and their leeching off working class America by not paying taxes?

The Founding Fathers are turning over in their graves. They would take up arms against such anti American behavior if they were alive today

just any guy says

If people in high COL states are so financially stretched thin because they bought way too much house and then can't take some hit on their tax deductions, that's on them. This is why so many people are screaming because they're hanging on by a thread so they can have that house on the hill and the Beamer. This is the reckoning for reckless financial spending, and I love it.

Well, that's like only 3/4 of the population, so what's the big deal?

80 Percent Of Americans Living Paycheck To Paycheck, Survey Finds
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/09/25/americans-paycheck-debt-survey/

Goran_K says

Trickle down does absolutely work. There is more personal wealth in the Western World than there has been individually in recorded human history across any nation on the Earth. Just because there are poor people doesn't mean that a highly profitable and hot private sector ISN'T a good thing.

Apple has a market cap approaching a Trillion dollars. How many people does the company employ? How many have cushy benefits plans? How many have bought nice homes in the Bay Area due to their huge salaries? How is this not an example of trickle down economics?

Because saying it doesn't make it so. Duh. You never learn.

It doesn't work. There, I win.

Time out. The Republicans have a shitty tax plan? You don’t say, colour me shocked

Timeout - not all of these comments are uncivil. Just need to avoid the personal attack types. It's a pain, but I'm really on board with cleaning this place up.

That was me right above.

just any guy says

If people in high COL states are so financially stretched thin because they bought way too much house and then can't take some hit on their tax deductions, that's on them. This is why so many people are screaming because they're hanging on by a thread so they can have that house on the hill and the Beamer. This is the reckoning for reckless financial spending, and I love it.

You are extremely mistaken. They don't underwrite large mortgages based on tax benefits. People can certainly foot the bill - but how is fair to them, when people on either side of the income levels are catching a break? The UMC is arguably the most talented and hard-working of the bunch.

The next time you need intense medical or legal assistance, or want your vehicle to stay safe when you crash - I hope you remember what you typed here.

anon_8cbcb says

Timeout - not all of these comments are uncivil. Just need to avoid the personal attack types. It's a pain, but I'm really on board with cleaning this place up.

Some of the lefties have gone off the deep end just like when Trump got elected.

So several personal attacks got flagged as uncivil and someone decided to flag several of Gorans posts as uncivil, even though they had no personal attacks whatsoever.

I’m sure Patrick will clean it up when he has time.

I’ll also note that I was previously one of the worst offenders when it came to personal attacks. I’m not gonna totally get into why except that it was a lot of fun when it REALLY pissed off another poster. Notice though that when Patrick expressed a desire to rid the board of such postings, I immediately fell in line. Personally I think the board is better with out moderation, but it’s Patrick’s site and he gets to make the decisions. If I don’t like it, I can stop posting and reading. I still like it.

anon_01c37 says

Goran_K says

Trickle down does absolutely work. There is more personal wealth in the Western World than there has been individually in recorded human history across any nation on the Earth. Just because there are poor people doesn't mean that a highly profitable and hot private sector ISN'T a good thing.

Apple has a market cap approaching a Trillion dollars. How many people does the company employ? How many have cushy benefits plans? How many have bought nice homes in the Bay Area due to their huge salaries? How is this not an example of trickle down economics?

If they are doing so well then why do they need a tax break?

Sniper says

anon_8cbcb says

Timeout - not all of these comments are uncivil. Just need to avoid the personal attack types. It's a pain, but I'm really on board with cleaning this place up.

Fucking White Male says

Some of the lefties have gone off the deep end just like when Trump got elected.

That's errc hitting all the posts as uncivil. It's Saturday, he's developed a pattern of going off the deep end on Saturdays. Just go back and look at his postings on Nov. 11th and go look at Comment Jail from that date. You'll see.

Look at you lying again. Why do you need to lie so frequently?

errc, stop feeding him. There is NOTHING TO BE GAINED.

Sniper says

errc says

That's errc hitting all the posts as uncivil. It's Saturday, he's developed a pattern of going off the deep end on Saturdays. Just go back and look at his postings on Nov. 11th and go look at Comment Jail from that date. You'll see.

Look at you lying again. Why do you need to lie so frequently?

A lie??

Really?

How many comments do you have in Comment Jail today?

How many went in last Saturday?

Do you have a problem with facts?

https://patrick.net/comment_jail

Why do you accuse OTHERS for what you do here on a regular basis? Projecting?

It's nice that you told Patrick you were going to clean up your act? Too bad that didn't last more than a day.

Lol go ahead and ask Patrick himself. He might not want to interact with you being that he banned you from his site and you spit in his face and return to harass people anyways. I don’t even have the ability to mark posts as uncivil. So you’ve been caught in a lie again. Shocking!

NewOldUser says

The next time you need intense medical or legal assistance, or want your vehicle to stay safe when you crash - I hope you remember what you typed here.

I'm 100% comfortable with what I typed here because I don't live beyond my means and I save like a motherfucker. Medical or legal assistance is nothing when you've planned your life and expenditures properly. It's called peace of mind.

NewOldUser says

People can certainly foot the bill - but how is fair to them, when people on either side of the income levels are catching a break?

#1 - The folks paying over $500K in mortgage interest and over $10K in property taxes are not poor. If they are, that's their mistake.
#2 - How is it fair? Why should renters have to subsidize taxes for homeowners?

NewOldUser says

anon_f1625 says

He/She got screwed at least twice - first time was at birth.

@WookieMan, this is what @Patrick is talking about.

@Patrick, anons probably should be blocked at this time. The above is someone who was put on ignore but still wants to troll. Why give them the chance?

NewOldUser,

Please stay on topic. Discuss how shitty the tax plan (not mentioning whose it is - saying on topic) is for the ... surprise, surprise... the little guy.

just any guy says

#1 - The folks paying over $500K in mortgage interest

How big a mortgage do you need to pay over 500k in mortgage interest?

bob2356 says

just any guy says

#1 - The folks paying over $500K in mortgage interest

How big a mortgage do you need to pay over 500k in mortgage interest?

Assuming a 20% down, roughly $650K mortgage. Plus, the plan is to grandfather existing homeowners to the $1M limit.

just any guy says

Why should renters have to subsidize taxes for homeowners?

I haven't the slightest clue what you're referring to on this point. Please elaborate how renters cover any costs for owner-occupied SFH?

bob2356 says

How big a mortgage do you need to pay over 500k in mortgage interest?

Assuming 4% rate, a single year's worth of the mortgage would be: $12,500,000.

Looks dubious...

NewOldUser says

bob2356 says

How big a mortgage do you need to pay over 500k in mortgage interest?

Assuming 4% rate, a single year's worth of the mortgage would be: $12,500,000.

Someone who can read. Excellent.

just any guy says

bob2356 says

just any guy says

#1 - The folks paying over $500K in mortgage interest

How big a mortgage do you need to pay over 500k in mortgage interest?

Assuming a 20% down, roughly $650K mortgage

That's a hell of an interest rate to pay 500k interest a year on a 650k mortgage. Loan sharks do mortgages now?

@ Patrick - Was out for a few days and missed most of this rubbish. In hindsight, not sure why this one is a #housing topic though. The OP title is about the tax plan. Yes MID has to do with housing and the cap gains proposed changes, but outside of that, this tax plan conversation is mainly political. It's a tax plan and not a housing plan.

The responses here are generally why I tend to stay out of the politics topic, which is where this post probably belongs IMO. There's cross over for sure, but this is tax policy, applied to housing. Tax policy is 100% political.

bob2356 says

That's a hell of an interest rate to pay 500k interest a year on a 650k mortgage. Loan sharks do mortgages now?

Indeed.

NewOldUser says

I haven't the slightest clue what you're referring to on this point. Please elaborate how renters cover any costs for owner-occupied SFH?

Why don't renters get a tax deduction on their monthly housing costs like homeowners do?

anonymous says

Large Job Growth Unlikely to Follow Tax Cuts for the Rich and Corporations.

Fox news and breitbart says it will. Don't be a party pooper by bringing up the fact it never has in the past. It's different this time.