patrick.net

anon_313db says

KimJongUn says

The calculator disagrees.

That stat about 250K/500K was only about california Prop 30. Regarding Trump's tax plan - it's clear that he and his apparatchiks are trying to punish "lexus liberals" who live primarily in CA and New York/Jersey. However, there will be serious collateral damage among wealthy core republicans especially those who live in orange county. Talk about irony - they primarily voted for him hoping for a tax cut only to be slammed with a tax increase....

Again a ridiculous position by you. California and NY/NJ are about as far away from electing Trump as it gets, regardless of how many Republicans in those states vote for him. .

anon_313db says

However, there will be serious collateral damage among wealthy core republicans especially those who live in orange county. Talk about irony - they primarily voted for him hoping for a tax cut only to be slammed with a tax increase....

There is no irony to talk about because their vote didn't matter one iota in this God-forsaken gone-to-donkey-shit state.

KimJongUn says

There is no irony to talk about because their vote didn't matter one iota in this God-forsaken gone-to-donkey-shit state.

Their vote did not matter, but they certainly did not matter to trump. Just placed on the altar to be sacrificed to Baal.

anon_bb95f says

KimJongUn says

There is no irony to talk about because their vote didn't matter one iota in this God-forsaken gone-to-donkey-shit state.

Their vote did not matter, but they certainly did not matter to trump. Just placed on the altar to be sacrificed to Baal.

Meaningless word gymnastics.

mell says

It's not socialist. The opposite is socialist, having itemizations benefitting some at the expense of others, That is socialism. No deduction at all or the same standard deduction for everybody only levels the playing field and upholds equal opportunity without fostering bubbles. There are absolutely zero reasons except for crony capitalism / socialism to allow a homeowner to deduct mortgage interest for their homes but not to allow a stock investor to deduct their margin interest. Or a piano collector to deduct their interest from debt accrued from buying pianos.

sounds like you can't itemize much so you hate seeing other who can itemize and come out better than you. that is pure jealousy.
"if i can't take advantage of it no one can" bullshit.

by your pick & choose what can and cannot be deducted, you demonstrated a very poor grasp of the how the government use taxes to encourage economy growth as a whole. investing in stocks does nothing for growing the economy. buying a house will because it creates jobs for a lot of people. you are just angry because you can't afford a house.

same thing they'll give you tax breaks for having kids and helping produce a future work force or take out a student loan and not a personal loan. nothing crony capitalism about any of these. you spend money on growing the economy in a way not many are willing to do (like opening a business or hiring) or benefiting society as a whole (teaching expenses as you mentioned), you get a tax deduction. that is the essence of the tax deductions. instead of complaining no fair you should think more objectively and stop having a victim mentality.

Updated version of Senate Bill is much better. Please try the calculator again to see what shakes out.

NewOldUser says

Updated version of Senate Bill is much better. Please try the calculator again to see what shakes out.

Not a single person knows the full details of what is in the plan that just passed the senate vote. Not a single soul. It's over 450 pages, with hand written annotations in the columns, and lobbyist pork added all over it just in the past 4 hours.

What it may do for taxes in income it doesn't at all do for other deductions the plebeian underclasses use, and it is "soft repeal" of the ACA to boot.

Anything you are using as calculation right now, isn't even 1/4 of the story of what this bill is. Your income taxes may go down, but unless you are a many-times-over multimillionaire, you probably just lost ... because the majority of the American people and consumers lost tonight.

Rew says

Your income taxes may go down, but unless you are a many-times-over multimillionaire, you probably just lost ... because the majority of the American people and consumers lost tonight.

Yeah right. So you must be God, because you claimed this.
Rew says

Not a single person knows the full details of what is in the plan that just passed the senate vote. Not a single soul.

lostand confused says

Yeah right. So you must be God, because you claimed this.

If you believe the idle rich will "trickle down", than you can just call me wrong, and move on. If you think I believe this bill is bad, simply because it was created by the GOP congress, and that I am only partisan in my position, you can stop reading now.

--

From what I have managed to read of the bill, and what I can see from reporting on the process used, the following is clear:

A) This wasn't a "tax bill", alone
B) Its primary intent was NOT helping the middle class
C) It makes the growing economic inequality in the nation worse. (i.e. this is not a bill that will fuel economic growth.)

The bill's primary motivation was to give back to donors and reduce taxes on inheritances. It had over 6 thousand lobbyists actually working on it. During this legislative push, multiple congressional members have stated motivations of giving back to their donors.

Yes, many of us will be up a few thousand on income taxes. We will lose elsewhere, in greater amount. Because this bill benefits fewer individuals than it helps and it pays for it by running up the deficit by 1 Trillion dollars.

A society where private jets have more tax exemption than school supplies, and where a 40K pension has a higher tax rate, than a multi-million dollar inheritance, is one doomed to fail.

We all lost, even those that think they won.

Sniper says

You and the whole Dem party are partisan in your positions. Why dance around that fact?

Please explain why the Senate bill got approved exactly down party lines, that only one Repub didn't vote for it and EVERY Dem didn't vote for it? You want us to believe that not a single Dem Senator saw anything good in the plan?

You think if there's one good thing and 1000 bad things, a senator should vote for it?

This bill was a complete piece of shit. Every non-partisan organization that has looked at it agrees. It's a complete sell-out to the 1% donors of the Republican party. Senators have even gone on record saying they have to pass this or else they will not get any donations when it comes time to run for re-election They don't even hide the fact that they are bought and paid for by the 1%. It's very sad.

But folks on here don't care because Trump says Merry Christmas.

anon_3b28c says

This bill was a complete piece of shit.

If that's the case, why didn't MORE repubs vote against it? They haven't been afraid to vote against other bills this year.

anon_3b28c says

Sniper says

You and the whole Dem party are partisan in your positions. Why dance around that fact?

Please explain why the Senate bill got approved exactly down party lines, that only one Repub didn't vote for it and EVERY Dem didn't vote for it? You want us to believe that not a single Dem Senator saw anything good in the plan?

You think if there's one good thing and 1000 bad things, a senator should vote for it?

This bill was a complete piece of shit. Every non-partisan organization that has looked at it agrees. It's a complete sell-out to the 1% donors of the Republican party. Senators have even gone on record saying they have to pass this or else they will not get any donations when it comes time to run for re-election They don't even hide the fact that they are bought and paid for by the 1%. It's very sad.

But folks on here don't care because Trump says Merry Christmas.

Link a few articles.

I assume you won't because those "non partisan organizations" are not so non partisan.

The fact is that nearly every article against the tax plan as it stand actually makes up facts and misrepresents statistics. The most basic lie is a simple one...that a tax "cut" is actually an expense or somehow a giveaway. Its like someone took an accounting class and didn't quite understand that lowering tax rates isn't an "expense",

Its a beyond preposterous position and I'm ready to label anyone who makes that argument a complete and total liar.

Sniper says

If that's the case, why didn't MORE repubs vote against it? They haven't been afraid to vote against other bills this year.

anon_3b28c says

It's a complete sell-out to the 1% donors of the Republican party. Senators have even gone on record saying they have to pass this or else they will not get any donations when it comes time to run for re-election They don't even hide the fact that they are bought and paid for by the 1%. It's very sad.

Fucking White Male says

The most basic lie is a simple one...that a tax "cut" is actually an expense or somehow a giveaway.

It's not an expense its a pay cut, which increase the amount by which the government already cannot pay its bills.

The budget score came in approximately an hour after the bill passed in the Senate. Just as standard process and norms dictate. (snicker)
https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=5046
And, the score is exactly as McConnell promised. "Should be Revenue Neutral" ... meaning it absolutely isn't.

There ARE things worth ballooning the deficit over, like an infrastructure bill, like stabilizing a collapsing economy. Tax breaks for myself and millionaires didn't make my list. Did they make yours?

The calculator has been updated with the final bill.

Ran the numbers again: yuuuge tax break for me despite deductions cap at $10K

Rew says

It's not an expense its a pay cut, which increase the amount by which the government already cannot pay its bills

Were just gonna let this sentence incubate.

anon_313db says

That stat about 250K/500K was only about california Prop 30. Regarding Trump's tax plan - it's clear that he and his apparatchiks are trying to punish "lexus liberals" who live primarily in CA and New York/Jersey. However, there will be serious collateral damage among wealthy core republicans especially those who live in orange county. Talk about irony - they primarily voted for him hoping for a tax cut only to be slammed with a tax increase....

Nope. For the first time since the Great Depression, the crony capitalists in Orange County decided their future was better in the corruptible hands of Clinton. Not since FDR!
http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-pol-ca-2016-orange-county-results/

Cheer now. Your kids will pay for all this.

anon_313db says

Regarding Trump's tax plan - it's clear that he and his apparatchiks are trying to punish "lexus liberals" who live primarily in CA and New York/Jersey.

You're learning, voting Democrat and voting for Hillary has consequences.

But in reality, it's your STATE representatives that are fucking you over in those states. Stop voting for the Blue team.

anon_313db says

Regarding Trump's tax plan - it's clear that he and his apparatchiks are trying to punish "lexus liberals" who live primarily in CA and New York/Jersey.

Well, the calculator based on the final version of the bill disagrees: they won't be "punished".

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

anon_313db says

Regarding Trump's tax plan - it's clear that he and his apparatchiks are trying to punish "lexus liberals" who live primarily in CA and New York/Jersey.

Well, the calculator based on the final version of the bill disagrees: they won't be "punished".

Calculator shows that Cali millionaire household with $18,000 property taxes (1.5 million dollar home) and $60,000 in interest costs will pay a little more than $1,000 in federal taxes than they used to. The punishment will be unbearable...

You forgot state income tax deduction.
I’m not remotely close to a millionaire but SALT deduction cap at $10K hurt my refund dramatically.


anon_7ebb1 says

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

anon_313db says

Regarding Trump's tax plan - it's clear that he and his apparatchiks are trying to punish "lexus liberals" who live primarily in CA and New York/Jersey.

Well, the calculator based on the final version of the bill disagrees: they won't be "punished".

Calculator shows that Cali millionaire household with $18,000 property taxes (1.5 million dollar home) and $60,000 in interest costs will pay a little more than $1,000 in federal taxes than they used to. The punishment will be unbearable...

All CA republican senators and House rep better brush up their resume because hey are all FIRED next election.

BorderPatrol says

All CA republican senators and House rep better brush up their resume because hey are all FIRED next election.

Except it was all the DEM elected politicians that voted for and allowed the ridiculous property taxes and state income taxes in the first place in CA.

Please focus on the real SOURCE of the problem.

Voting DEM has consequences!

BorderPatrol says

You forgot state income tax deduction.
I’m not remotely close to a millionaire but SALT deduction cap at $10K hurt my refund dramatically.

I'll call BS on this one.