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70
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:36pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:36pm
CajunSteve says
Why not? As long as anybody can push a door to get outside, what's the problem?
Most first year teachers make $30k/year + cost of bennies and pension, but schools can afford ONE (1) full time security guard at the entrance? In areas where first year teachers don't make $30k+bennies, a $9/hr job is considered plush, so still no problem finding and affording a guard.
Why don't we just lock the main door too then? And any visitor must get buzzed in?
Why not? As long as anybody can push a door to get outside, what's the problem?
Most first year teachers make $30k/year + cost of bennies and pension, but schools can afford ONE (1) full time security guard at the entrance? In areas where first year teachers don't make $30k+bennies, a $9/hr job is considered plush, so still no problem finding and affording a guard.
71
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 3:37pm
TwoScoopsPlissken says
That's what pretty much all schools do already.
Why not? As long as anybody can push a door to get outside, what's the problem?
That's what pretty much all schools do already.
72
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:40pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:40pm
CajunSteve says
Well, this one didn't.
And it's not a school in bumville with 100-200 students, but a massive campus of over 3000 students.
That's what pretty much all schools do already.
Well, this one didn't.
And it's not a school in bumville with 100-200 students, but a massive campus of over 3000 students.
73
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 3:40pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 3:40pm
CajunSteve says
Schools in that area seemed to all have a main entrance and then the admin office was right next to the main entrance and I think the community officer had his office one door down. You can't lock the place down because there are PE classes and students move from portables to interior classrooms during period changes.
Why don't we just lock the main door too then? And any visitor must get buzzed in?
Schools in that area seemed to all have a main entrance and then the admin office was right next to the main entrance and I think the community officer had his office one door down. You can't lock the place down because there are PE classes and students move from portables to interior classrooms during period changes.
74
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:44pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:44pm
He waltzed right in the door.
900 students on an average day just in this building. Many office buildings, many with a fraction of the people, all adults, have a FT guard at the entrance. And only one entrance for the public to enter; all other entrances only open with a valid key or keycard.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-map.html
900 students on an average day just in this building. Many office buildings, many with a fraction of the people, all adults, have a FT guard at the entrance. And only one entrance for the public to enter; all other entrances only open with a valid key or keycard.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-map.html
75
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 3:46pm
TwoScoopsPlissken says
Yes, it did. Read this article for the details:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.html
Well, this one didn't.
Yes, it did. Read this article for the details:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.html
76
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 3:47pm
Malcolm says
Again--read up. The school is locked down. The shooter knew the routine.
Schools in that area seemed to all have a main entrance and then the admin office was right next to the main entrance and I think the community officer had his office one door down. You can't lock the place down because there are PE classes and students move from portables to interior classrooms during period changes.
Again--read up. The school is locked down. The shooter knew the routine.
77
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:52pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:52pm
CajunSteve says
I just did, and nope.
Bullshit. If it had real security procedures and a dedicated guard for 1000 people, this wouldn't have happened.
The SRO is NOT a dedicated security guard posted at the entrance. He will be breaking up fights, looking for kids sneaking out of the building, pursuing truants, meeting with parents etc. Security means a person at the door at all times. The SRO may not have even been on the campus. This kid was KNOWN to the admins and staff.
And gunmen in, or perhaps non-custodial parents swooping in, eh? Totally retarded. Something so basically goofy only an Education PhD would think of and implement
Dumbassery on so many levels.
Yes, it did. Read this article for the details:
I just did, and nope.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High has fences, gates and emergency procedures to keep students safe, but a determined gunman found a way around them.
Bullshit. If it had real security procedures and a dedicated guard for 1000 people, this wouldn't have happened.
He came when he knew the gates would be open and set off a fire alarm that would dismantle a safety system, officials say. And the school resource officer, who is supposed to help protect students, may not have been on school grounds at the time.
The SRO is NOT a dedicated security guard posted at the entrance. He will be breaking up fights, looking for kids sneaking out of the building, pursuing truants, meeting with parents etc. Security means a person at the door at all times. The SRO may not have even been on the campus. This kid was KNOWN to the admins and staff.
Accused gunman Nikolas Cruz, who had been expelled from the school for behavioral problems, arrived on campus about 20 minutes before the school day ended.
That’s the time school officials usually open the gates around campus so students and staff parked in various parking lots, as well as school buses and parents picking up their kids, can get out easily, said Jerry Graziose, the district’s former director of school safety.
And gunmen in, or perhaps non-custodial parents swooping in, eh? Totally retarded. Something so basically goofy only an Education PhD would think of and implement
“During the day, those areas locked. But when you’re getting ready for kids to leave, all the gates in the different areas have to be unlocked, and it takes a few minutes for the person doing that,” Graziose .said
Dumbassery on so many levels.
78
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:54pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:54pm
CajunSteve says
The school wasn't locked down. There was nobody posted at the entrance. The staff had unlocked all the egress points before the school was officially closed. The SRO may not have even been in the building or the campus, much less watching the door and stopping visitors. That's not security.
Imagine if a MIC Contractor opened the gates 20 minutes before the end of day and didn't have a guard checking IDs at the entrance of a Skunkworks building. And the sole designated security person was somewhere else outside the facility (interviewing a potential employee?), much less checking IDs at the entrance points. Would you call that "Well Guarded?" "Why, Congressman, we were well guarded. The Chicoms just were well prepared when they stole the F-37 plans!"
From your own article.
Again--read up. The school is locked down. The shooter knew the routine.
The school wasn't locked down. There was nobody posted at the entrance. The staff had unlocked all the egress points before the school was officially closed. The SRO may not have even been in the building or the campus, much less watching the door and stopping visitors. That's not security.
Imagine if a MIC Contractor opened the gates 20 minutes before the end of day and didn't have a guard checking IDs at the entrance of a Skunkworks building. And the sole designated security person was somewhere else outside the facility (interviewing a potential employee?), much less checking IDs at the entrance points. Would you call that "Well Guarded?" "Why, Congressman, we were well guarded. The Chicoms just were well prepared when they stole the F-37 plans!"
From your own article.
79
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 3:55pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 3:55pm
CajunSteve says
? The article made my point, you can't lock the place down all the time and you can't lock it during a fire alarm. That is a big hole without a clear solution. It would have helped if the community officer were there, I read that he may not have been on campus, that is an issue. That may be THE issue.
At SDSU the classroom doors can be locked from the inside. If this is not the case, schools need to be able to lock classroom doors, maybe with a WiFi system.
Again--read up. The school is locked down. The shooter knew the routine.
? The article made my point, you can't lock the place down all the time and you can't lock it during a fire alarm. That is a big hole without a clear solution. It would have helped if the community officer were there, I read that he may not have been on campus, that is an issue. That may be THE issue.
At SDSU the classroom doors can be locked from the inside. If this is not the case, schools need to be able to lock classroom doors, maybe with a WiFi system.
80
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:57pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:57pm
I don't understand. When I was a kid, we had to wait until all the safety crossing guards were deployed before they let us out the door. All by walkie-talkies back pre-cell phone era, when only Drug Dealers and Executives had beepers and car phones.
I've seen temples and churches deploy staff for traffic purposes. A campus of 3000+ kids, bigger than most Churches, doesn't deploy staff members in and outside the building?
I've seen temples and churches deploy staff for traffic purposes. A campus of 3000+ kids, bigger than most Churches, doesn't deploy staff members in and outside the building?
81
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 3:58pm
TwoScoopsPlissken says
Of course it was. You can't keep it locked down when kids enter and exit. That's the point.
The school wasn't locked down
Of course it was. You can't keep it locked down when kids enter and exit. That's the point.
82
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:59pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 3:59pm
CajunSteve says
Your article states that the sole security officer may not have even been onsite, and everything was opened 20 minutes before the school closed.
That's not a lock down, that's a wide open.
Of course it was. You can't keep it locked down when kids enter and exit. That's the point.
Your article states that the sole security officer may not have even been onsite, and everything was opened 20 minutes before the school closed.
That's not a lock down, that's a wide open.
83
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 3:59pm
TwoScoopsPlissken says
So, what do you propose. Having a SWAT team clear the campus every day before and after school?
I don't understand. When I was a kid, we had to wait until all the safety crossing guards were deployed before they let us out the door. All by walkie-talkies back pre-cell phone era, when only Drug Dealers and Executives had beepers and car phones.
So, what do you propose. Having a SWAT team clear the campus every day before and after school?
84
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 4:01pm
TwoScoopsPlissken says
Nope--because having a security guard there would make no difference.
Remind me how the security guard at Mandalay Bay did?
he SRO is NOT a dedicated security guard posted at the entrance. He will be breaking up fights, looking for kids sneaking out of the building, pursuing truants, meeting with parents etc. Security means a person at the door at all times. The SRO may not have even been on the campus. This kid was KNOWN to the admins and staff.
Nope--because having a security guard there would make no difference.
Remind me how the security guard at Mandalay Bay did?
85
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:02pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:02pm
CajunSteve says
No, but at least one armed community officer to be on campus at all times. But, before doing anything, take a breath and don't go to extremes like on site SWAT teams or random gun legislation.
So, what do you propose. Having a SWAT team clear the campus every day before and after school?
No, but at least one armed community officer to be on campus at all times. But, before doing anything, take a breath and don't go to extremes like on site SWAT teams or random gun legislation.
86
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 4:03pm
Malcolm says
I agree with you except for the community officer part. He would have been the 1st casualty.
? The article made my point, you can't lock the place down all the time and you can't lock it during a fire alarm. That is a big hole without a clear solution. It would have helped if the community officer were there, I read that he may not have been on campus, that is an issue. That may be THE issue.
I agree with you except for the community officer part. He would have been the 1st casualty.
87
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:06pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:06pm
CajunSteve says
Different situation, he was trying to take out a sniper's nest, very defensible. This was a case of a sole gunmen penetrating a facility that in theory was secure. Guys, please grow up, the good guys don't always win in a gunfight, but it is at least a chance.
Remind me how the security guard at Mandalay Bay did?
Different situation, he was trying to take out a sniper's nest, very defensible. This was a case of a sole gunmen penetrating a facility that in theory was secure. Guys, please grow up, the good guys don't always win in a gunfight, but it is at least a chance.
88
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:09pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:09pm
CajunSteve says
But they ask you clear as day, on the questionnaire, if you are mentally unstable. It is a crime to lie on the form. LOL
Yes, we can spend a zillion dollars and put armed guards at every entrance and exit 24 hours a day, or we can simply make it more impossible for mentally deranged kids to get assault weapons.
But they ask you clear as day, on the questionnaire, if you are mentally unstable. It is a crime to lie on the form. LOL
89
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:14pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:14pm
CajunSteve says
Why do you take it as a certainty that the gunman would win against an armed community officer? First off, the AR15 can't really be concealed. In my scenario it is better than 50/50 that the officer would win, or at least the gunfight outside might have prompted a different response. The whole thing would have played out differently, including not being able to activate the fire alarm.
I agree with you except for the community officer part. He would have been the 1st casualty.
Why do you take it as a certainty that the gunman would win against an armed community officer? First off, the AR15 can't really be concealed. In my scenario it is better than 50/50 that the officer would win, or at least the gunfight outside might have prompted a different response. The whole thing would have played out differently, including not being able to activate the fire alarm.
90
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:16pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:16pm
CajunSteve says
How about ONE (1) security guard for just one building that alone contains 1000 students, staff, and faculty on an average day?
This isn't a one-room schoolhouse in Intercourse, PA or Dry Weeds, Nevada. This is a Campus with 3100+ students, plus a few hundred faculty and staff.
When you don't have ONE (1) dedicated security guard for the entire campus - not an SRO whose responsibilities take them off site but somebody at an entrance point watching cameras - you have NO security.
It would be a scandal if this was an office park. It's infamous that there was not a single dedicated security person onsite and watching the doors and/or cameras for what is a massive campus, a town unto itself.
So, what do you propose. Having a SWAT team clear the campus every day before and after school?
How about ONE (1) security guard for just one building that alone contains 1000 students, staff, and faculty on an average day?
This isn't a one-room schoolhouse in Intercourse, PA or Dry Weeds, Nevada. This is a Campus with 3100+ students, plus a few hundred faculty and staff.
When you don't have ONE (1) dedicated security guard for the entire campus - not an SRO whose responsibilities take them off site but somebody at an entrance point watching cameras - you have NO security.
It would be a scandal if this was an office park. It's infamous that there was not a single dedicated security person onsite and watching the doors and/or cameras for what is a massive campus, a town unto itself.
91
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:16pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:16pm
In addition, gunmen like this are actually cowards. Just seeing an armed presence might have deterred him.
92
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 4:17pm
Malcolm says
Because the security guard would likely be flirting with one of the secretaries or talking to a student or playing candy crush when the assault rifle toting murderer came up on him. The element of surprise would be squarely on the side of the kid.
Why do you take it as a certainty that the gunman would win against an armed community officer? First off, the AR15 can't really be concealed. In my scenario it is better than 50/50 that the officer would win, or at least the gunfight outside might have prompted a different response. The whole thing would have played out differently, including not being able to activate the fire alarm.
Because the security guard would likely be flirting with one of the secretaries or talking to a student or playing candy crush when the assault rifle toting murderer came up on him. The element of surprise would be squarely on the side of the kid.
93
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:18pm
Malcolm
2018 Feb 17, 4:18pm
CajunSteve says
Score one for CajunSteve
Because the security guard would likely be flirting with one of the secretaries or talking to a student or playing candy crush when the assault rifle toting murderer came up on him. The element of surprise would be squarely on the side of the kid.
Score one for CajunSteve
94
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:18pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:18pm
Here's what would have happened if they had one gatehouse at the entrance to the campus.
Kid drives up in an Uber. Guard gets the Kid's name, looks him up, he's on a list because the school already put out a warning he was not to enter and was expelled.
You've just prevented a mass shooting.
Kid drives up in an Uber. Guard gets the Kid's name, looks him up, he's on a list because the school already put out a warning he was not to enter and was expelled.
You've just prevented a mass shooting.
95
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 4:19pm
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 4:19pm
CajunSteve says
CajunSteve says
You responded perfectly to your first statement.
Yes, we can spend a zillion dollars and put armed guards at every entrance and exit 24 hours a day,
CajunSteve says
This is dumbassery
You responded perfectly to your first statement.
96
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:19pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:19pm
CajunSteve says
When the kid pulled the alarm, the guard would have seen the camera and saw a kid with a backpack fleeing the scene, which would have totally changed the encounter. He could have cancelled the alarm, put out on the PA to lock all classroom doors and stay inside, or take other actions that would have prevented many deaths.
And if it was a gatehouse guard, the kid probably wouldn't have gained entry. The Uber Driver ain't gonna ram the gate to deliver the gunman to the front door of the school.
Chances are the AR-15 was disassembled in the backpack, or it was a hell of a tall backpack.
Not having ONE (1) dedicated campus Security Guard on a massive 3100 Student (+100s of faculty/staff) != Amazing Security, and could not at all be called a Lockdown or even basic security.
Because the security guard would likely be flirting with one of the secretaries or talking to a student or playing candy crush when the assault rifle toting murderer came up on him. The element of surprise would be squarely on the side of the kid.
When the kid pulled the alarm, the guard would have seen the camera and saw a kid with a backpack fleeing the scene, which would have totally changed the encounter. He could have cancelled the alarm, put out on the PA to lock all classroom doors and stay inside, or take other actions that would have prevented many deaths.
And if it was a gatehouse guard, the kid probably wouldn't have gained entry. The Uber Driver ain't gonna ram the gate to deliver the gunman to the front door of the school.
Chances are the AR-15 was disassembled in the backpack, or it was a hell of a tall backpack.
Not having ONE (1) dedicated campus Security Guard on a massive 3100 Student (+100s of faculty/staff) != Amazing Security, and could not at all be called a Lockdown or even basic security.
98
CajunSteve
2018 Feb 17, 4:22pm
TwoScoopsPlissken says
lol--so every parent who comes to pick up their child has to be cleared by a security guard? Do you have any idea how long that would take and how impractical it is?
Here's what would have happened if they had one gatehouse at the entrance to the campus.
Kid drives up in an Uber. Guard gets the Kid's name, looks him up, he's on a list because the school already put out a warning he was not to enter and was expelled.
You've just prevented a mass shooting.
lol--so every parent who comes to pick up their child has to be cleared by a security guard? Do you have any idea how long that would take and how impractical it is?
99
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:23pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:23pm
CajunSteve says
I believe 90 was also against "Your Rules" @Patrick.
I'm an Armchair Quarterback for noticing there was not a single ONE (1) dedicated guard for an immense campus of 3100+ Kids.
I believe comment 99 is against your rules
I believe 90 was also against "Your Rules" @Patrick.
I'm an Armchair Quarterback for noticing there was not a single ONE (1) dedicated guard for an immense campus of 3100+ Kids.
100
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:29pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Feb 17, 4:29pm
Imagine if Lockheed-Martin, or the Department of Energy, or for that matter General Mills or the Florida Department of Agriculture or a UPS distribution center did not have a single dedicated security guard for a campus of over 3100 employees, nor a controlled gateway for vehicles.
If some crazed shooter, or random individual, entered that facility and killed somebody or stole documents, the lack of even rudimentary security would be a scandal.
Here we have a kid already on a list and known to the school authorities as well as the Sheriff's Office, who could penetrate a 3100+ campus without the least interaction with a human being, because there wasn't a single dedicated security person for a facility of that size.
And people are saying "What could we have done?"
If some crazed shooter, or random individual, entered that facility and killed somebody or stole documents, the lack of even rudimentary security would be a scandal.
Here we have a kid already on a list and known to the school authorities as well as the Sheriff's Office, who could penetrate a 3100+ campus without the least interaction with a human being, because there wasn't a single dedicated security person for a facility of that size.
And people are saying "What could we have done?"
101
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:27pm
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:27pm
anon_cf6c6 says
I'm wondering the same thing, it's every few months?
tatty/joeyjoey/happygilmore now CajunSteve, why do you keep signing up NEW profiles here? This new one was just signed up today?
I'm wondering the same thing, it's every few months?
103
anonymous
2018 Feb 17, 5:27pm
CajunSteve says
Since when is requoting a poster a problem?
@Patrick
I believe comment 99 is against your rules
Since when is requoting a poster a problem?
104
anonymous
2018 Feb 17, 5:27pm
CajunSteve says
Do many parents carry AR-15's with them when they pick up their kids?
lol--so every parent who comes to pick up their child has to be cleared by a security guard?
Do many parents carry AR-15's with them when they pick up their kids?
105
anonymous
2018 Feb 17, 5:27pm
"We have a security person. Our only choice is to ban all firearms."
"Where was the security officer at the time of the shooting?"
"Oh, he was 20 miles away interviewing the potential hire for the new Assistant Food and Beverage Director."
"Where was the security officer at the time of the shooting?"
"Oh, he was 20 miles away interviewing the potential hire for the new Assistant Food and Beverage Director."
106
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:27pm
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:27pm
Malcolm says
Exactly, he wouldn't
A trained LEO or ex military SRO would NOT be taken by surprise by a punk ass kid?
That's Hollywood movie fiction.
CajunSteve saysI agree with you except for the community officer part. He would have been the 1st casualty.
Why do you take it as a certainty that the gunman would win against an armed community officer?
Exactly, he wouldn't
A trained LEO or ex military SRO would NOT be taken by surprise by a punk ass kid?
That's Hollywood movie fiction.
107
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:28pm
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:28pm
Malcolm says
Exactly, he wouldn't
A trained LEO or ex military SRO would NOT be taken by surprise by a punk ass kid?
That's Hollywood movie fiction.
CajunSteve saysI agree with you except for the community officer part. He would have been the 1st casualty.
Why do you take it as a certainty that the gunman would win against an armed community officer?
Exactly, he wouldn't
A trained LEO or ex military SRO would NOT be taken by surprise by a punk ass kid?
That's Hollywood movie fiction.
108
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:28pm
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:28pm
Malcolm says
Exactly, he wouldn't .
A trained LEO or ex military SRO would NOT be taken by surprise by a punk ass kid?
That's Hollywood movie fiction.
CajunSteve saysI agree with you except for the community officer part. He would have been the 1st casualty.
Why do you take it as a certainty that the gunman would win against an armed community officer?
Exactly, he wouldn't .
A trained LEO or ex military SRO would NOT be taken by surprise by a punk ass kid?
That's Hollywood movie fiction.
109
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:28pm
MrMagic
2018 Feb 17, 5:28pm
CajunSteve says
Great, what NEW law, on top of the existing 20,000 gun laws should be written to accomplish that. Please be specific and refrain from hyperbole.
I'm seriously interested on how you can accomplish that.
What NEW laws would a mentally derange kid honor, since they don't honor any of the existing ones?
or we can simply make it impossible for mentally deranged kids to get assault weapons.
Great, what NEW law, on top of the existing 20,000 gun laws should be written to accomplish that. Please be specific and refrain from hyperbole.
I'm seriously interested on how you can accomplish that.
What NEW laws would a mentally derange kid honor, since they don't honor any of the existing ones?
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High school kids have ~50 years of unrealized labor potential, at a ballpark of 50k per year.
2,500,000 x 17 = $42,500,000 in lost potential wages
17 families will now have to bury a child. Average cost of funeral service 10k = $170,000
Let’s say on average 50 people attend each funeral, so they have to take a day or two of unpaid bereavement leave.
850 people x $500 in lost wages= $425,000 in lost wages
It’s not cheap to travel with no notice for planning, so we’ll use an average $1,000 per person = $850,000
100’s maybe 1,000s of survivors will now suffer from PTSD, which is hard to calculate costs but easily into the millions = $100,000,000- $1,000,000,000
So we’re already potentially north of 1 billion dollars in costs, without even beginning to consider all the ancillary costs to come, so we can pause and move over to the benefit side of the analysis.
Benefits
A gun manufacturer made a sale of ~1,000 which netted them a hundred or two in profits.
So who gets stuck with the tab for another gun nut taking his lame hobby of target practice to the local high school?
Oddly, not the gun maker. Because your halfwit Republican Government says that the gun worked as intended, to turn teenagers into bloody chunks.