patrick.net

It is what you get a pension for-or is it for grandma with cancer on munchies?

Satoshi_Nakamoto says

"Why anyone would want to carry a heavy gun when we have police to protect us all?"

"Give up your guns and depend on the racist, corrupt cops to save you."

Every job classification has it's chargers and slackers. Cop jobs are no different.
why is anyone surprised that a slacker happened to be in this position this time?
When everybody gets a trophy, whether they performed or not, this is what you wind up with.
People schooled from birth that performance means nothing...so why take on risk?

Sniper says

BayArea says

What percentage of trained and Glock armed police/security would have engaged the shooter and his AR15 in that halfway? 1%? 0.1%? 0.01%?

75%+, maybe more, (that is if they're there to take the job seriously).

You think a security guy with tactical training won't take on a snot nosed random kid with a AR?

Ya, if they have a shot, they take it. Do they step into a hallway with a kid firing an AR? No, most won’t. I could be wrong but that’s my guess.

BayArea says

Ya, if they have a shot, they take it. Do they step into a hallway with a kid firing an AR? No, most won’t. I could be wrong but that’s my guess.

With all the screaming and running of the kids in the hall, do you really think the shooter would even see the cop in that mayhem? In that situation, the cop would definitely have the advantage.

That freedom/liberty argument is bs. You can have all these measures and still have a free society. You don't need to go to the nightclub or airport or school if you don't like metal detectors and armed guards. Just stay on your ranch and homeschool your kids with or without guns, up to you. Nobody has the right to go to a nightclub or school/university and at the same time be as free as they want to be. I'd rather see free speech and metal detectors / security guards on Universities than no security and free speech restrictions. Batshit crazy leftoid world today where snowflakes have to be protected from "offensive speech" but a shooter can just go in and take out a whole gun-free zone because leftism.

Feux Follets says

If this gun thing for your own safety is such a rip roaring good thing for school children etc. - then why are there 5 Places Hypocritical Republicans Ban Guns for Their Own Personal Safety ?

1. The White House

Along with making Mexico pay billions for a wall it opposed and never taking a golfing vacation, Trump promised on the campaign trail to legislate a future in which guns could legally be brought into every kindergarten classroom and nursery. “My first day, it gets signed, okay? My first day,” Trump told supporters in Vermont in 2016. “There’s no more gun-free zones.”

While it’s true no president could unilaterally scrap federal law, it’s also true that Trump’s complicit Republican Congress would probably greenlight any pro-gun horrorshow he could dream up. Yet, in the year since he took office, Trump has not spoken out once—even via his digital bullhorn at Twitter—against the anti-freedom gun ban at the White House. What better way for this president to sign...

Again, you can ban guns for the visitors except for armed guards. Yes, it restricts freedom for the visitors, but you don't need to visit the WH or Mar-a-lago if you don't like it. Done, Next.

Feux Follets says

mell says

Done, Next.

Not done - if this country has been reduced to having armed security at every venue, private and public school, university, church, shopping center, what have you - and the public accepts it because "nothing can be done about the problem" - we are no better than any Third World Nation in addition to slowly and surely losing just a bit more freedom each and every day "because nothing can be done about the problem" instead of demanding that heads roll in the streets (literally if necessary) to get something done about the problem.

As long as you don't address the root causes of those problems, or accept to live with the casualties and more freedom (which is viable as well) these are your only choices. To pretend that gun control will change these numbers significantly is disingenuous and robbing people of freedoms on their personal properties, far worse than a control at the airport or nightclub. Next.

The root cause is the moral panic that destroyed the huge Mental Health Network we used to have to house and care for the Mentally Ill.

That there are people today who haven't figured out that most homeless are seriously mentally ill and cannot be relied upon to dose themselves, even if we give them free meds, except with alcoholic and drugs. And mere drugs aren't the end all of treatment, and that whatever cocktail of drugs initially prescribed is seldom the correct one. "Stay a few weeks and Release" is not the answer. Nor are slumlord half-way homes.

Lobotomies are no longer done, Schizophrenia mostly has Genetic Origin, and Nurse Ratched is a fictional character. Re-Open Kings Park and repeal the Lanterman-Petris-Short
in California and other State Laws Modelled on that terrible mistake.

Schizophrenia isn't "Bad social dynamics in the Family" it's genetic, aggravated by certain situations such as severe infant fevers. That idea is from a book that came out before the DNA revolution in the 70s, before Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Band in the age of the Dinosaurs.

Society isn't Crazy, Crazy Homeless People are Crazy.

Protect the Crazy People, and occasionally, Society from Crazies. Had we those "Evil" pre 60s/70s mental health laws, Cruz and ALL his victims would be alive today. Cruz might even be a functional person rather than a tortured soul to boot.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

The root cause is the moral panic that destroyed the huge Mental Health Network we used to have to house and care for the Mentally Ill.

That there are people today who haven't figured out that most homeless are seriously mentally ill and cannot be relied upon to dose themselves, even if we give them free meds, except with alcoholic and drugs. And mere drugs aren't the end all of treatment, and that whatever cocktail of drugs initially prescribed is seldom the correct one. "Stay a few weeks and Release" is not the answer. Nor are slumlord half-way homes.

Lobotomies are no longer done, Schizophrenia mostly has Genetic Origin, and Nurse Ratched is a fictional character. Re-Open Kings Park and repeal the Lanterman-Petris-Short
in California and other State Laws Modelled on that terrible mistake.

Schizophrenia isn't "Bad social dynamics in the Family" it's genetic, aggravated by certain situations such as severe infant fevers. That idea is from a book that came ...

Right into the bulls eye. Plus kids are treated like snowflakes without rough fatherly influence, everybody is a winner - until the day comes where nobody protects them from assholes, bosses, gold-diggers etc. Then they are on their own and every setback is of course society's fault in their eyes. Time go on SSRIs and then take revenge when those don't work anymore. We don't have any crazy people anymore by decree, Autism (esp. severe) is celebrated! YAY autism, because having no empathy for others and being an emotionless psychopath is AWESOM-O. Look how great it worked with Marissa Mayer as a boss taking away WFH parental care options while building herself a gigantic crib at work! It's a feature, not a bug! Everyone is great and doesn't need judgemental assholes.. until they go on a rampage, then it's the weapon of choice's fault! Good job.

Yes, sir.

But too many still say, James Holmes isn't crazy, society is crazy.



Imagine a Sheriff or School Nurse or Public Official not committing this guy in 1955.

"Don't commit crazy people who make psychotic violent threats and shoot people's animals while posting about becoming Pro School Shooters! It's inhumane! Muh Civil Liberties! Nurse Ratched is Real!"

Seriously, we actually have to have a debate as to whether an ancient civil liberty expressly placed into the Bill of Rights should be repealed, or whether we should reopen mental health facilities and create a pathway for forced hospitalization that lasts long enough to effect some kind of solution (ie not 72 hours and a 14-day supply of Clonezapam).

I think 39 visits by LEOs plus multiple school outbursts bad enough to result in expulsion to an 'at-risk' school, on top of reporting of threats by multiple peers, neighbors, and total strangers seeing his bizarre violent posts on the internet was kind of an little bit of an indicator that maybe kinda sorta we need to take a little bit of action here.

Feux Follets says

mell says

I'd rather see free speech and metal detectors / security guards on Universities than no security and free speech restrictions

“I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag.”

Me too. How is guarding public venues more unconstitutional than taking away the basic rights to own guns? It isn't.

Feux Follets says

mell says

How is guarding public venues more unconstitutional than taking away the basic rights to own guns?

Your right to bear arms may interfere with my right to live in a country free from armed security at every turn of the corner, but please - do so answer the question.

"Accept the casualties, live in a police state with armed guards at every turn and have more freedom" ?

I'm pressed for time right now but I can check back later. Hopping from foot to foot in anticipation of this one.

Clearly taking away guns from people everywhere is the bigger intrusion. It is not at every turn of the corner, just at mass gatherings which unfortunately are targets. I don't mind walking through security in public buildings, why do you mind? As long as I can have privacy in my home and remote nature it's all good.

Feux Follets says

mell says

without rough fatherly influence

How does that work then when someone turns into a looney tunes and shoots up everything insight and we find out he had one of those hero type rough fathers who used to put the fear of god and every other known entity in the kid ?

Great.

Please point out which one of the past mass murders had a father like that in his life at the time of the shooting.

We'll be waiting.

mell says

Clearly taking away guns from people everywhere is the bigger intrusion.

I have lived in or visited for prolonged periods of time (months) many countries - Canada, EU (both west and east), Japan. Among all these countries, the US is the least safe and people have the least personal freedoms. Taking away your guns is your least problem.

DryMap says

mell says

Clearly taking away guns from people everywhere is the bigger intrusion.

I have lived in or visited for prolonged periods of time (months) many countries - Canada, EU (both west and east), Japan. Among all these countries, the US is the least safe and people have the least personal freedoms. Taking away your guns is your least problem.

Actually I have lived in the EU as well and your observation seems quite biased. Wrt free speech the US beats the EU hands down where you can get prosecuted for free speech quite easily, same for Canada. Also safety in the US depends heavily on the state, city and hood, same for Europe. No difference really,

One only needs to check the size of the prizon population and the number of police killings to know which country is a police country. And unsafe.

That’s actually very accurate

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

None of these so called FREE!dom indexes measure access to ordnance. In the states, someone somewhere will sell you belt-fed guns to ensure no one fucks with your rights to personal security and mayhem making.

FP says

One only needs to check the size of the prizon population and the number of police killings to know which country is a police country. And unsafe.

One of the main reasons for high incarceration rates are the drug laws. Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe (esp. publicly) in drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, MJ etc.) or drive with an open can of beer in your cup-holder then the US - a nation founded by puritans - is certainly more restrictive. This is going to change significantly though as MJ becomes legal and we will see incarceration rates go down.

jvolstad says

I would have taken out that shooter. Good target practice.



(I am in the upper left-hand corner)

No mustache like Goose in bottom right corner?

I'm simultaneously proud and disappointed in you.

Update: it is now FOUR (4) Broward County Deputies that hung out while the shooting was in Progress.

Let's celebrate instead the Coral Springs Police who got 130 officers to the scene within minutes, probably every last cop they had, and stormed the place.

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

Feux Follets says

anon_cf6c6 says

Please point out which one of the past mass murders had a father like that in his life at the time of the shooting.

We'll be waiting.

Protocol and social etiquette prevents me from answering until I have let other questions previously asked and ignored get answered.

Translation: I got nothing to support the fake liberal narrative and lies being promoted.

Did certain "powers that be" turn a blind eye to this massacre knowing the political implications (i.e., gun control) of such an outcome?

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

In the end it is a bit subjective but I definitely feel like I have more freedom in the US than in the EU, even with the imbibing restrictions. However if we let extreme leftism / cultural-marxism / feminism continue to poison this country this may change at some future tipping-point (esp. for straight white males).

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

Somebody gets it

mell says

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

In the end it is a bit subjective but I definitely feel like I have more freedom in the US than in the EU, even with the imbibing restrictions. However if we let extreme leftism / cultural-marxism / feminism continue to poison this country this may change at some future tipping-point (esp. for straight white males).

What are you talking about, imbibing restrictions?

It’s sad that it’s a even a discussion about which other country are more known for Freedom than America

errc says

mell says

DryMap says

mell says

Surely if you measure freedom in the freedom to imbibe

Surely that is not all.
Those conditioned to live like Americans (for whom the default assumption is that whatever they may wish to do is not allowed) will not get it.

In the end it is a bit subjective but I definitely feel like I have more freedom in the US than in the EU, even with the imbibing restrictions. However if we let extreme leftism / cultural-marxism / feminism continue to poison this country this may change at some future tipping-point (esp. for straight white males).

What are you talking about, imbibing restrictions?

It’s sad that it’s a even a discussion about which other country are more known for Freedom than America

Not at all. Freedom of speech is amongst the best in the US. Also in many European countries you can get sued and ordered to change if your neighbor doesn't want the new color or design, of your house wall, if you have a bathroom airing out to the side etc. Or try running a business elsewhere, think bureaucracy is bad here? Think again. Can't get incorporated faster anywhere else. Some countries prohibit you to even carry a simply knife for self-defense. You can get prison time for extreme opinions solely etc etc. I'd like to be able to have a beer while driving as long as I don't go over the limit, so that I would like to see changed. Even weed laws are still stricter in some European countries than in the US. And you can get admitted to the mental ward against your will quite rapidly (which may not be a bad thing in certain cases), not in the US though. Abortion is illegal in many other countries, and gay marriage. Where do you not feel free (except for the drug laws) here?

That's life.
Welcome to the human race...
jazz_music says

THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH ENFORCEMENT TO MAKE oppressed classes of people NOT REACT to their plight en masse.

jazz_music says

Whole neighborhoods unite to try to overcome these "enforcement" scams.

They come up with "Black Lives Matter" to highlight the wasted lives they experience either by death or imprisonment only to be rubuked by "Blue Lives Matter" as if blue lives, or all lives, have anything to worry about. --except eclipsing the original statement on the part of oppressed classes of people.

Your own life becomes more unsafe the more those around you keep getting systematically shafted. Liberals think about things like that.

THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH ENFORCEMENT TO MAKE oppressed classes of people NOT REACT to their plight en masse.

Dude, it’s a small price to pay to save us from the Communist Socialists and Hilary Clinton!

jazz_music says

They come up with "Black Lives Matter" to highlight the wasted lives they experience either by death or imprisonment only to be rubuked by "Blue Lives Matter" as if blue lives, or all lives, have anything to worry about. --except eclipsing the original statement on the part of oppressed classes of people.

Black Lives Matter is bullshit because far, far, far, far more Blacks are killed by Other Blacks than police officers. Welfare Hos Jill Off watching their Thugs gun each other down.

jazz_music says

especially the undercover nazi skin head types that use the job as carte blanche

Provide one example. When you can't, let's all admit this is a leftist fantasy. It is a lie fed to you by CNN so that you feel superior to anyone who disagrees w you, w/o ever actually listening to their opinions. It's brainwashing so that you shut your brain off, and it appears to be working beautifully.

jazz_music says

Their opposition actually makes concessions to BLM

Who? What?

mell says

Not at all. Freedom of speech is amongst the best in the US. Also in many European countries you can get sued and ordered to change if your neighbor doesn't want the new color or design, of your house wall, if you have a bathroom airing out to the side etc. Or try running a business elsewhere, think bureaucracy is bad here? Think again. Can't get incorporated faster anywhere else. Some countries prohibit you to even carry a simply knife for self-defense. You can get prison time for extreme opinions solely etc etc. I'd like to be able to have a beer while driving as long as I don't go over the limit, so that I would like to see changed. Even weed laws are still stricter in some European countries than in the US. And you can get admitted to the mental ward against your will quite rapidly (which may not be a bad thing in certain cases), not in the US though. Abortion is illegal in many other countries, and gay marriage. Where do you not feel free (except for the drug laws) here?

Pure garbage. I've lived overseas for years in a number of different countries. Not a week in Paris now I know all about France. ,Like moved there, gotten bank accounts, bought or rented, got Dl etc. You can find individual examples of specific items country by country. Oh yes this country does this or that country does that. But America is not the shining beacon of individual freedoms or rights that you have been brainwashed to believe. It's actually a pretty good example of a the boiling frog. Losing rights little by little without noticing. The phrase land of the free has become a bit of a running joke around the world.

Go ahead, make your case.

How many first world countries can your neighbor sue and force you to change your house (you've obviously never lived with an HOA or historic district commision).

Tell me how bad the bureaucracy for business is in Ireland, Norway, or Singapore or even the UK compared to CA or NY. The US is ranked 8th in the world for ease of doing business.

How many first world countries can you be jailed for extreme opinions? You mean like this? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-comments-arrest-prosecution That kind of freedom of speech?

Fastest to incorporate? NZ,Hong Kong, Singapore, UK, Ireland, Denmark are all just as fast. Plus they actually do due diligence. The US is one of the best and easiest countries to set up an anonymous corporation (provided you aren't a US citizen) or to set up a bank account. Which is why so much dirty money is laundered through the US. International criminals love the security of having their dirty money in the US.

Weed? Very few first world countries have stricter laws than the US. Decriminalized stares are still subject to federal law. Some of the more sensible ones like Portugal and Switzerland are decriminalized all drugs and use the money they spent on enforcement for treatment. Very successfully. The US has the highest prison rate for drugs pretty much anywhere..

What countries can you be committed "quite rapidly"? All that i know of require going through the court system. There are any number of states where you can be committed just as rapidly. The only european countries that ban abortion outright are Ireland, Malta, Poland, and San Marino. There are a number of states where abortion is effectively banned. Only the eastern europe former soviet block countries prohibit gay marriage. There were 14 states that banned gay marriage until the supreme court knocked it down in 2015.

https://www.theroot.com/is-racist-law-enforcement-hunting-black-people-1821393072

"The most chilling part of the entire interview, however, was when Picciolini said this:
You know 30 years ago, we were skinheads. We wore swastikas and shaved heads, and you could identify us pretty easily. So we decided at that time to grow our hair out, to trade in our boots for suits, and we encouraged people to get jobs in law enforcement, to go to the military and get training and to recruit there.

Repeat last line: “We encouraged people to get jobs in law enforcement, to go to the military and get training and to recruit there.” Shoot and recruit. Sounds about Nazi."

CBOEtrader says

jazz_music says

especially the undercover nazi skin head types that use the job as carte blanche

Provide one example. When you can't, let's all admit this is a leftist fantasy. It is a lie fed to you by CNN so that you feel superior to anyone who disagrees w you, w/o ever actually listening to their opinions. It's brainwashing so that you shut your brain off, and it appears to be working beautifully.

To me it sounds like jazz is talking about agent provocateurs

http://www.offthegridnews.com/self-defense/how-to-identify-an-agent-provocateur/

there are examples in that article. I guess we all have to admit it's not a leftist fantasy.

Well, one thing the Broward Cowards Proved:

You can't "just call the police"

But he was following protocol! Don't you people know protocol is GOD!?

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Well, one thing the Broward Cowards Proved:

You can't "just call the police"

Do you think any internet chat forum mods would have been braver and rushed in and stopped the shooter? Lol lmao