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How countries go backwards

By Patrick following x   2018 Sep 14, 7:53am 3,408 views   76 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


https://www.edge.org/conversation/how-to-get-rich

To understand these losses in extreme isolation, the easiest case to understand is Japan, because the loss of firearms in Japan was witnessed and described. It took place in a literate society. Guns arrived in Japan around 1543 with two Portuguese adventurers who stepped ashore, pulled out a gun, and shot a duck on the wings. A Japanese nobleman happened to be there, was very impressed, bought these two guns for $10,000, and had his sword-maker imitate them. Within a decade, Japan had more guns per capita than any other country in the world, and by the year 1600 Japan had the best guns of any country in the world. And then, over the course of the next century, Japan gradually abandoned guns.

What happened was that the Samurai, the warrior class in Japan, had been used to fighting by standing up in front of their armies and making a graceful speech, the other opposing Samurai made an answering graceful speech, and then they had one-on-one combat. The Samurai discovered that the peasants with their guns would shoot the Samurai while the Samurai were making their graceful speeches. So the Samurai realized that guns were a danger because they were such an equalizer. The Samurai first restricted the licensing of gun factories to a hundred factories, and then they licensed fewer factories, and then they said that only three factories could repair guns, and then they said that those three factories could make only a hundred guns a year, then ten guns a year, then three guns a year, until by the 1840s when Commodore Perry came to Japan, Japan no longer had any guns. That represents the loss of a very powerful technology.


And without guns, they were pretty much fucked when Commodore Perry showed up.

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37   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 14, 7:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Herdingcats says
Then why don't Trump supporters call him out on his hiring of foreign workers?


Does he hire illegals?


Are you implying non-illegal foreign workers don't dilute the power to negotiate wages by American workers?
38   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 14, 7:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Rocketmanjoe says
If people don't agree with it they are free not to use the service


Nope, not free in a de facto sense. See the comic above:


Nope, phone company = internet service provider
Social media = patrick.net = customer of isp.

Does this link take you to Infowars https://www.infowars.com/
If so then Infowars has not been banned from the internet and if one agrees that phone companies should be regulated then they should also agree that isp's should be regulated. But not social media.

What regulations would you propose for social media?
39   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 14, 8:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
What regulations would you propose for social media?


@patrick

What regulations do you propose for patrick.net?
40   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 14, 9:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Jones got banned from Twitter for violating it's abusive behavior policy. Do you consider abusive behavior non-violent?


Since when is grilling a public figure "Bullying".

Rubbish.

Jones treated the CNN guy Oliver Whatshisface... the way politicians and pundits ought to be treated by reporters generally.

Getting in his face, being a little dismissive/insulting, demanding answers.

You ever see British or Irish or Aussie TV at work on a interviewee? Jordan Peterson with that Channel 4 Gal... Stephen Sackur...
41   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 14, 10:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Jones treated the CNN guy Oliver Whatshisface... the way politicians and pundits ought to be treated by reporters generally.


Apparently these companies feel their policies had been violated. What is your solution? Government control? All social media? What controls should the government put on patrick.net?
42   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 14, 11:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
See the comic above


So, @Patrick, do you really feel patrick.net should be regulated like a utility? Or do you not agree that patrick.net is social media?
43   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 14, 11:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Apparently these companies feel their policies had been violated. What is your solution? Government control? All social media? What controls should the government put on patrick.net?



We just found out that Google Executives gave Left-wing activists groups bumps in the search engine and pumped up hashtags for users that fit certain criterion. No denialist BS - unlike a smearjob NYT/WaPo Column it names the email author and position.

They had a mournful conversation after the President was elected, vowing somebody like him would never be elected again and they need to develop machine learning and AI to stop it from happening again.

That they thought they needed to help the forces of progress. They display 80-90% of all search results in the world (inc. the USA). Now they're building a censored Chinese internet.

So it's pretty clear what their intent of more machine learning/AI really is - to be deployed against their perceived political opponents.

But all the Big Tech firms claim only to be Platforms - when they edit like a very biased Publisher

The same people who didn't want Comcast charging them extra for Youtube or Facebook, are now telling us Youtube and Facebook should have the power to completely ban users and content creators according to Opaque Standards. But a browse of #VerifiedHate - @VerifiedHate who did no more than retweet anti-white, anti-male, anti-straight tweets from "blue check" verified Twitter accounts, was banned but the quoted accounts remain - is proof of bias.
44   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 14, 11:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
The same people who didn't want Comcast charging them extra for Youtube or Facebook, are now telling us Youtube and Facebook should have the power to completely ban users and content creators.


So then what do you propose to be done? I am not hearing any solutions. How do you propose to force YouTube and Facebook to not ban users that they feel violated their policies?
45   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 14, 11:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
So then what do you propose to be done? I am not hearing any solutions. How do you propose to force YouTube and Facebook to not ban users that they feel violated their policies?



I hinted at it. Enforcement of open, obvious criterion - like no CP. No calls to violence. Standard stuff

Anything beyond that makes you a Publisher, not a Platform.

That means you can be sued over the content.
46   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 15, 8:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
I hinted at it. Enforcement of open, obvious criterion - like no CP. No calls to violence. Standard stuff

Anything beyond that makes you a Publisher, not a Platform.

Not true. Look up section 230 of the communications decency act and quote to me where it says this. That is the piece of legislation that provides immunity. Do you always misrepresent facts?
47   Herdingcats   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 15, 8:53am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Herdingcats says
Does he hire illegals?


Are you implying non-illegal foreign workers don't dilute the power to negotiate wages by American workers?


Does Trump employ H2B visa holders? How does this not take service industry jobs away from Americans?
Why don't Trump supporters call him out on this practice? These are Jobs that Americans would be much more interested in doing than picking fruit.
48   HEYYOU   ignore (25)   2018 Sep 15, 9:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Vote Republican or Democratic to save America.
49   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 15, 11:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Patrick says
See the comic above


So, @Patrick, do you really feel patrick.net should be regulated like a utility? Or do you not agree that patrick.net is social media?


What say you @Patrick ?

You said to see the cartoon, and I did. So now I ask, why should your social media site be regulated like a utility?
50   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 15, 11:51am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@Rocketmanjoe please point out any instance of a political point of view that was censored on patrick.net, ever.

Didn't think so.

But also, is patrick.net a monopoly, or do you have easy alternatives to patrick.net?

Thought so.
51   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 15, 12:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says

But also, is patrick.net a monopoly, or anywhere close to it? Do you have easy alternatives to patrick.net?


Are you implying there is no alternative to Google or YouTube?

Pretty sure I can watch Alex Jones whenever I want whether he's on YouTube or not.
52   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (5)   2018 Sep 15, 12:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Patrick says

But also, is patrick.net a monopoly, or anywhere close to it? Do you have easy alternatives to patrick.net?


Are you implying there is no alternative to Google or YouTube?

Pretty sure I can watch Alex Jones whenever I want whether he's on YouTube or not.


I can install solar panels on my roof and Tesla Powerwall in my garage and cut the power line but this doesn't mean PG&E is not a fucking monopoly. And the great fuckin state of California agrees and regulates the fucking thing as a fucking monopoly it is.
53   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 15, 12:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DASKAA says

I can install solar panels on my roof and Tesla Powerwall in my garage and cut the power line but this doesn't mean PG&E is not a fucking monopoly. And the great fuckin state of California agrees and regulates the fucking thing as a fucking monopoly it is.


lol-the government CREATED and enforced that monopoly. Not exactly the same thing.
54   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 15, 12:45pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
But also, is patrick.net a monopoly, or anywhere close to it? Do you have easy alternatives to patrick.net?


No patrick.net is not a monopoly nor is Facebook, Twitter, YouTube or apple not to mention millions of other social media sites that I could choose to spend my time at but so far since 2006 I've chosen to spend a larger amout of my time here at Patrick.net than anywhere else. I've had my Facebook phase, my zerohedge, max keiser and others that are all doing social media differently. You got your shtick they got theirs but it all falls under social media. So who chooses which social media sites need regulation? And how does one regulate them?

You bring up the word monopoly, which companies do you believe are monopolies and how do the fit the description of a monopoly? How who you propose breaking up these monopolies?

Patrick says
please point out any instance of a political point of view that was censored on patrick.net, ever.


I personally have been Censored on this site. I believe not being allowed to discuss moderation is censoring the politics of this site. Prove me wrong.


I've come to your social media site Now for around 12 years. There were some great people here. It's sad that they have decided to leave. Why do you think they left? What was it that they had the biggest issue with of your policies on this site that made them decide to spend their time elsewhere?
55   marcus   ignore (7)   2018 Sep 15, 1:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

President Donald Trump's Presidency is a real world demonstration of ___________________________________________________



Patrick says
How countries go backwards


But not in the way he means, when he says MAWA, or MAGA.
56   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 15, 1:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yes, I would think deleting anyone that points out the political bias of the moderators would qualify as censorship.

It's Patrick's site, so he can run it however he wants, but at least be honest about what the site has become.
57   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 15, 1:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Comparing a stand alone website to Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube is absurd.

It's like saying "So there's only Walmart Supercenters for groceries within an hour drive. But there is Ray's Pizzeria, Papa Johns, and Pizza Hut, so there is no food monopoly. "
58   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 15, 1:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Comparing a stand alone website to Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube is absurd.


Who is doing that?
59   bob2356   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 15, 2:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says


But also, is patrick.net a monopoly, or anywhere close to it? Do you have easy alternatives to patrick.net?


Typing infowars.com is not an easy alternative to typing facebook.com? Is the w missing on your keyboard?
60   bob2356   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 15, 2:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Comparing a stand alone website to Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube is absurd.

It's like saying "So there's only Walmart Supercenters for groceries within an hour drive. But there is Ray's Pizzeria, Papa Johns, and Pizza Hut, so there is no food monopoly. "


Comparing a grocery store to restaurants is even more absurd.
61   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (5)   2018 Sep 15, 3:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
DASKAA says

I can install solar panels on my roof and Tesla Powerwall in my garage and cut the power line but this doesn't mean PG&E is not a fucking monopoly. And the great fuckin state of California agrees and regulates the fucking thing as a fucking monopoly it is.


lol-the government CREATED and enforced that monopoly. Not exactly the same thing.


Nope, government did not "create that monopoly" it grew onto one by itself.
62   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 15, 3:51pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Patrick.net as a Free Speech site


You're still very free to give whatever opinion you want, just not free to deliberately insult the other users.

No one wants to visit a site where they will be personally attacked for their honest opinion. People prefer a site where they can have a polite and friendly discussion on every possible topic. At least I do.
63   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 15, 3:58pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Aphroman says
Patrick.net as a Free Speech site


You're still very free to give whatever opinion you want, just not free to deliberately insult the other users.

No one wants to visit a site where they will be personally attacked for their honest opinion. People prefer a site where they can have a polite and friendly discussion on every possible topic. At least I do.


Yet we are not allowed to discuss moderation. So we are not allowed to discuss every possible topic.

Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom.
64   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 15, 4:17pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You may not insult the moderators, as they are also users, but I welcome friendly discussion of moderation.
65   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 15, 4:22pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

NuttBoxer says
Like characterizing someone as either Right or Left, and using that characterization to summarily dismiss everything they say?


Nobody moderate is quoted or their words remembered even and especially on Patnet. Only the most ridiculous positions are noticed in this hyper information sphere.
66   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 16, 8:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
You may not insult the moderators, as they are also users, but I welcome friendly discussion of moderation.


Good. The moderation, while a noble idea, has utterly failed in the implementation.
68   Hugolas_Madurez   ignore (5)   2018 Sep 16, 12:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Patrick says
You may not insult the moderators, as they are also users, but I welcome friendly discussion of moderation.


Good. The moderation, while a noble idea, has utterly failed in the implementation.


Take up Patrick on his offer yo set up a personal forum for you, keep it unmoderated and I promise I'll come and play there. Will bring friends too.
69   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 16, 12:52pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Comparing a grocery store to restaurants is even more absurd.


Not at all. The comparison is excellent.

Major Social Media and Search Engines are most non-porn internet traffic: The top three are Google, Youtube, and Facebook.

The point is to keep non-Establishment opinions locked in bespoke Echo Chambers and out of the main Public Marketplace of Ideas. Most people won't seek out an Infowars, or DailyKos, or MotherJones, or Breitbart - especially if they either can't be linked to or posts linking to them are "downgraded" from Timelines - and that's the point. The point is to prevent anti-establishment voices from having influence at the General Town Meeting. "But you can meet in the Pub across the street with your little group of friends, you're just banned from the big meeting with everybody talking about everything from LOLcats to Hurricanes. But CNN, MSNBC, Vox, and Buzzfeed are scheduled 5 minutes at the beginning of every Town Meeting"

You can develop an App like Infowars did, but if your opinion is too outside the narrow Overton Window for Google and Apple, it ain't gonna reach 90% of potential users. And given the search rigging, won't even know you exist before they find out your app is unavailable on 90%+ of mobile devices.

When two companies control 90%+ of all mobile devices, they're monopolies.
70   bob2356   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 16, 1:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
The point is to keep non-Establishment opinions locked in bespoke Echo Chambers and out of the main Public Marketplace of Ideas. Most people won't seek out an Infowars, or DailyKos, or MotherJones, or Breitbart - especially if they either can't be linked to or posts linking to them are "downgraded" from Timelines - and that's the point. The point is to prevent anti-establishment voices from having influence at the General Town Meeting. "But you can meet in the Pub across the street with your little group of friends, you're just banned from the big meeting with everybody talking about everything from LOLcats to Hurricanes. But CNN, MSNBC, Vox, and Buzzfeed are scheduled 5 minutes at the beginning of every Town Meeting"


Nice circular argument. Keep trying though.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
bob2356 says
Comparing a grocery store to restaurants is even more absurd.


Not at all. The comparison is excellent.


It's true because I believe it should be true. Got it.
71   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 16, 1:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says
Nice circular argument. Keep trying though.


You saying it is, doesn't make it so.

Most people are using mobile devices today, and most people go to places recommended on Social Media by associates.

Banning sites from being on Social Media (and then deliberately concealing posts that link them when users post them) is the equivalent of being de-listed from the old Yellow Pages.

AAA Auto Parts won't get many phone calls if the Phone Book won't list it.

The solution is clear: One is either a neutral platform that only bans illegal or Adult content according to clear rules, or one is a publisher. Publishers, however, are responsible for the content, legally.
72   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 16, 2:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The solution is clear: One is either a neutral platform that only bans illegal or Adult content according to clear rules, or one is a publisher. Publishers, however, are responsible for the content, legally.


Or make a site that people want to go to...
73   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Sep 16, 2:09pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Internet bill of rights is coming. Guaranteed.
74   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 16, 2:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Would be nice

CBOEtrader says
Internet bill of rights is coming. Guaranteed.
75   bob2356   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 16, 4:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
The solution is clear: One is either a neutral platform that only bans illegal or Adult content according to clear rules


Clear to people who live on conspiracy and russian propaganda which is what is being cleaned up. Who defines what is illegal? That means the government would the censor. That has always worked so well in so many places throughout history. Let me count the ways. Maybe jones could just stop making shit up and get back on social media. No, say it ain't so joe.
76   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 16, 5:22pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

Clear to people who live on conspiracy and russian propaganda which is what is being cleaned up.


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