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How many million$$$ should I demand?

By CBOEtrader following x   2018 Dec 1, 2:27pm 529 views   12 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Well gents for those of you who read my court case update a while back... we won. Summary judgement awarded in our favor.

The judge has asked all partied to negotiate a settlement amongst themselves. We return to court on Jan 29 to give him our agreement. Interesting coincidence, Jan 29 is also my birthday. If we do not have a settlement, we go back to court for a judge to decide.

So...the question is how much do we ask for? The lawsuit is for $5 million. The defendant will say he only has $X million in assets, and therefore cant pay. There is a larger trading company who is also on the hook, but more vicariously than directly. The trading company has offered us $100 thousand for us to absolve them of responsibility. I expect the individual to lowball offer $1 million or even sub $1 million as his starting point.

We could legitimately make a case for $100 million, though more likely our upside is around $20 million. Anything over $4 million will probably require another multi-year legal battle.

How would you negotiate this process?
1   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 Dec 1, 4:03pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Summary judgment usually means the defendant did not put up much of a fight, or any fight, because they are not questioning any of the facts alleged in the lawsuit. It also may mean that they intend to declare bankruptcy based on the amount of the judgement. They do not want, or need, to continue paying for any more legal wrangling and are playing dead.

It is impossible to determine what should be asked without knowing the defendant's solvency or ability/willingness to pay without appeals, bankruptcy, or further legal proceedings. I would surmise that that would be in the lower ranges of the amounts you are dealing with.

A judgement that results in bankruptcy against an insolvent payer just winds up in another court, with likelihood that the judgement itself could be nearly worthless, competing with other debt claims etc. no matter what the face value, so going for a nominal high face value on the judgment could be meaningless.
2   CBOEtrader   ignore (3)   2018 Dec 1, 4:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ceffer says
Summary judgment usually means the defendant did not put up much of a fight


7 years of legal games capped off by massive evidence spoliation. Judge had enough of it

Ceffer says
It also may mean that they intend to declare bankruptcy


Very possible. This is a discussion we are having as well. I spoke to a BK attorney today about this.

Ceffer says
It is impossible to determine what should be asked without knowing the defendant's solvency or ability/willingness to pay without appeals, bankruptcy, or further legal proceedings. I would surmise that that would be in the lower ranges of the amounts you are dealing with.


Bro you have a knack of getting to the point. Very logical thinking. Yes the individual is in the low millions (our guess), but we have a strong vicarious liability case for the company and owners of the company. This would ofc require another legal fight. The company acknowledges $40 thousand that they disnt pay me on my way out the door, and claim no responsibility for the individual's actions. They want me to accept $100k and leave them out of it.

Ceffer says
A judgement that results in bankruptcy against an insolvent payer just winds up in another court, with likelihood that the judgement itself could be nearly worthless, competing with other debt claims etc. no matter what the face value, so going for a nominal high face value on the judgment could be meaningless.


Court, yes. HOWEVER the BK attorney today told me they can not waive a summary judgement awarded for fraud via BK. I'm probably using the wrong words here. Therefore I would have first claim against assets, and the lawyers think the company would eventually be held for the difference.

We will potentially start negotiations by reminding them how much more money they will owe us via another court battle, and ask them for full financial asset reports before we decide on our first ask price.
3   Tenpoundbass   ignore (11)   2018 Dec 1, 6:33pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBO! Come give your long lost Uncle a Hug!
4   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 Dec 1, 7:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yeah, just think of all the new relatives you will have, along with all the other ones who wouldn't cross to street to piss on you if you were on fire becoming your new best friends and guilt trippers.
5   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (0)   2018 Dec 1, 8:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You are negotiating from strength, just play it smart since you already know the cards.

Since you are naming the price first, it'll be the starting point of negotiation. Other side will try to reduce no matter what you ask. That's the common behavior. Go with what you think will be best.

I don't really know your situation and can't say that I've negotiated anything more than 2M.
6   CBOEtrader   ignore (3)   2018 Dec 1, 8:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Not sure anyone has any actual experience doing this. Maybe the duck will come back?
7   Strategist   ignore (2)   2018 Dec 1, 9:20pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
Well gents for those of you who read my court case update a while back... we won. Summary judgement awarded in our favor.


You first find out how much they really have. Let them keep 10% to 20% of what they have, and take the rest.
For the excellent advise you received from Patnetters, I recommend you share 20% of the proceeds with us.
8   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 Dec 1, 10:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tell your defendant that if he takes off all his clothes in the courtroom and runs around clucking with an ostrich feather in his ass, you'll give him $50,000.00 toward the settlement. Of course, he'll have to decide before the lawyers and the judge do it first.
9   Automan Empire   ignore (2)   2018 Dec 2, 12:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ceffer says
all the other ones who wouldn't cross to street to piss on you if you were on fire becoming your new best friends


Hey CBOEtrader, it's me ur best friend

CBOEtrader says
The company acknowledges $40 thousand that they disnt pay me on my way out the door, and claim no responsibility for the individual's actions. They want me to accept $100k


If you can leave their share on the table until you exhaust options with the main defendant, and rule out that they are going to pick up a higher dollar amount of slack once he's cleaned out great. Once you're negotiating a fixed settlement from them alone, maybe start at $190k and go no lower than $120k "because treble damages bro." Call this a stragegy of choosing price points that are likely to slip past psychological barriers without triggering a harder longer fight with little else to go on.
10   joshuatrio   ignore (0)   2018 Dec 2, 3:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

You first find out how much they really have. Let them keep 10% to 20% of what they have, and take the rest.
For the excellent advise you received from Patnetters, I recommend you share 20% of the proceeds with us.


This right here.
11   CBOEtrader   ignore (3)   2018 Dec 2, 5:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Automan Empire says
Ceffer says
all the other ones who wouldn't cross to street to piss on you if you were on fire becoming your new best friends


Hey CBOEtrader, it's me ur best friend


It sounds like a high sticker price, but after lawyer fees and their pro bono %, plus taxes, we will only keep maybe 40% of the paid settlement.

It's enough to buy a Ford Raptor and juice up my current biz, but FAR from enough to retire.
12   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2018 Dec 2, 6:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ask the max reasonable amount, then let the pissed off judge decide in your favor...

CBOEtrader says
7 years of legal games capped off by massive evidence spoliation. Judge had enough of it




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