patrick.net

Evan F. says

Patrick, why isn't crap like this excised? Seems pretty mean spirited, personal and without substance.

OK, that is personal, not about any particular topic. Deleted, thanks.

Evan F. says

Marcus has already said what he majored in. It wasn't Education.

I believe I had been talking about a Master's in Education, which is a retarded degree a HS dropout could earn without a sweat, so long as they were barely literate.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Marcus, you better call your Teacher's Soviet Komissar. The only way you could be making only $500 extra for an MA is if you were a first year teacher.

Neither it nor a Bachelor's in Education is remotely comparable to Pre-Med or IMHO even a Liberal Arts degree like Music where you have to at least learn and replicate complicated chord structures on demand.

If Marcus is only getting $500/year extra for a Masters of Science in Math, something is wrong. I already posted the pay scale for a California School System, and they all have the same graphic distribution.

Here is Sacramento, the most tightfisted district in California. No teacher with 5 years+ experience doesn't get at least $2,000/year with BA+45 Credits or a Master's. A 10 year experienced teacher with a Master's gets more than $7,500 extra per year.

https://d2qrgk75cp62ej.cloudfront.net/sites/main/files/file-attachments/2017-18_scta_all_final_updated_1.10.18.pdf

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

something is wrong

Yes, it's that you don't understand something that I explained pretty damn clearly. (see #23 above)

They give credit for certain classes beyond your bachelors and or beyond classes that met requirements for teaching credential . You get so called salary points for those.

When I say "the degree itself" I'm talking about a document indicating the completion of a program. That's what the $500 is for. But you couldn't have completed such a program, without taking a lot of courses that are good for salary points. I don't think these details are interesting to anyone, but do you now get it ? It's just the way some districts do it, including LAUSD.

Onvacation says

I disagree. If parents won't hold their kids accountable how can teachers?

Obviously. I was being facetious.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

marcus says

Relatively speaking, California's per pupil spending is pretty dismal.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

California is close to the Median Spend of about $11k per student. 26th in the Country. You can also infer this from your own chart.

The chart I showed has California 29th, if I counted right, and roughly half of what New York spends.

You don't have to be at the bottom of the list to be what I consider dismal. LAUSD pays decently, considering the cost of living in LA. But class sizes are WAY too large.

marcus says

When I say "the degree itself" I'm talking about a document indicating the completion of a program. That's what the $500 is for. But you couldn't have completed such a program, without taking a lot of courses that are good for salary points. I don't think these details are interesting to anyone, but do you now get it ? It's just the way some districts do it, including LAUSD.

Marcus, c'mon man. Are you saying you were arguing that the degree itself confers no income increase, just the credits behind it? hahahah C'mon Man.

I put up several pay charts, they all have both BA+X Credits AND MA.

Are you trying to say you don't make more because of the MS, but because you have several dozen credits? This is semantics, and it doesn't even seem to be the case since they deliberately list out Master's Degrees.

marcus says

The chart I showed has California 29th, if I counted right, and roughly half of what New York spends.

You don't have to be at the bottom of the list to be what I consider dismal. LAUSD pays decently, considering the cost of living in LA. But class sizes are WAY too large.

Doesn't matter if it's yours (29) or mine (26), it's much closer to the Median than either extreme.

Also, Economy of Scale. You'd expect more populous states with many large metro areas to do better because of larger school districts, even without extra pay.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

marcus says

The chart I showed has California 29th, if I counted right, and roughly half of what New York spends.

You don't have to be at the bottom of the list to be what I consider dismal. LAUSD pays decently, considering the cost of living in LA. But class sizes are WAY too large.

Doesn't matter if it's yours (29) or mine (26), it's much closer to the Median than either extreme.

What matters is the fact that California is on the bottom when it comes to educating kids. We are number one in wasting money, and number one in taxes. It's pathetic.

IS it the holidays, or the bad week Trump is having that's making the TrumpCucks even more assholish than usual ?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Also, Economy of Scale. You'd expect more populous states with many large metro areas to do better because of larger school districts, even without extra pay.

Really ? Interesting argument. Nevermind that Large cities have a higher cost of living for all the employees. And the scale is just fine in Cincinnati, and Tuscon.

marcus says

IS it the holidays, or the bad week Trump is having that's making the TrumpCucks even more assholish than usual ?

Neither. It's just the fact that hard working citizens are getting ripped off by their own government as usual.

TwoScoops: "Oh, that's how it works in LAUSD, thanks for taking the time to explain it to me. "

Just kidding. More like:

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Marcus, c'mon man. Are you saying you were arguing that the degree itself confers no income increase, just the credits behind it? hahahah C'mon Man.

I put up several pay charts, they all have both BA+X Credits AND MA.

Are you trying to say you don't make more because of the MS, but because you have several dozen credits? This is semantics, and it doesn't even seem to be the case since they deliberately list out Master's Degrees.

It's not semantics. I said I get $500 per year more for my Masters degree. Then I explained why that's not as bad as it sounds as a response to your silly comment, and oakmans more normal comment (not understanding how it works at LAUSD).

"both BA+X Credits AND MA."

"OR MA" is what it says.

Someone could take a lot of courses relevant to what they teach, and max out the number of salary points they have, and their salary (for the number of years they've taught so far. Then later, they might go to night school to get a masters in education, becasue they are thinking about becoming an admin or whatever. Their pay would only go up $500 per year. Seems like a good policy to me.

You really could have just read and comprehended comment #23. I'm not going to change my mind from believing that.

marcus says

I'm surprised there wasn't more intelligent discussion about this.

marcus says

I'm surprised there wasn't more intelligent discussion about this.

Intelligent discussion? We are part of the failed education system.

marcus says

It's not semantics. I said I get $500 per year more for my Masters degree. Then I explained why that's not as bad as it sounds as a response to your silly comment, and oakmans more normal comment (not understanding how it works at LAUSD).

No, you brought up credits way late into the discussion - you could have said it in the first place and now it looks like deflection. But Whatevs.

So you make more than $500 for having a Master's.

marcus says

I'm surprised there wasn't more intelligent discussion about this.

California spends the around the Median but gets near the bottom. That's what it tells us.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

No, you brought up credits way late into the discussion - you could have said it in the first place and now it looks like deflection. But Whatevs

comment #23 for the 100th time (okay maybe just the 3rd or 4th time)

A better man would admit his mistake. You do read, no ?

marcus says

Obviously. I was being facetious.

Hard to tell. I thought you might actually believe that good teaching negates bad parenting.

Ca has a 9.7% dropout rate... I wonder what their dropin rate is. You know, the kids that drop in once in a while and then just quit.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

California worst in Education

The obvious solution is to throw more money at the problem and move on to the next one.

If education was good, we wouldn't have so many liberals. Liberalism by default is a sign of very low education, aka people who can't figure anything out in their life so they want to take it from others.

marcus says

comment #23 for the 100th time (okay maybe just the 3rd or 4th time)

A better man would admit his mistake. You do read, no ?

And #8, #11, #13 long before that.

Your very first mention wasn't credits, but that you "only" get $500/year for having a Masters, which implied that's all you got. It wasn't until much later in the convo that you said you get paid for the credits in addition to the degree.

I was right - I knew you didn't just get $500/year for having just the Masters degree.

In my case I only get 500/ per year for having a masters degree.

Since I have so many classes beyond my bachelors degree, I would easily be making only $500 less than I make now, had I not even started the Masters program that I completed. Many many many many many LAUSD teachers that never started a Masters program, make $500 less per year than I (probably 90% or more of LAUSD teachers that have been teaching at least 15 years are in this category).

The graph you showed said 36 hours OR MA. The person that has 36 hours plus the MA doesn't get much for the MA.

You could just say. "Okay, thanks for explaining to me how it works Marcus. I now know that if I had read #23 and understood it, I would see that in your case, and you were referring to yourself, you are indeed getting only $500/year for your Masters Degree. Thanks for clarifying why what you said was in fact true. "

Strategist says

theoakman says

If you only get $500 for your masters degree, your union negotiated a crappy contract. My union, it's about an $8k difference. I'm wondering why you are all gung ho pro union when they clearly didn't negotiate well for you.

Pensions. Why care for a lousy $500 when you can get $millions in pension.

I'm a teacher in NJ. I fully expect my pension to be dead in the water and the absolute best I could ever hope for is 50% of what was promised. I doubt I get that though.

theoakman says

the absolute best I could ever hope for is 50% of what was promised. I doubt I get that though

"We can gaurantee your money, but can't guarantee its purchasing power".

"We can guarantee your money, but can't guarantee its purchasing power".

That is true if you are the Federal Gov with the printing press. Not so true for States and municipalities.

I'm a teacher in NJ. I fully expect my pension to be dead in the water and the absolute best I could ever hope for is 50% of what was promised. I doubt I get that though.

My wife was an elementary teacher in Va and NE. Both those States use a vesting system. Does NJ have some kind of defined benefit pension?

theoakman says

I doubt I get that though.

If you really think that, and don't have too many ties in NJ, did you ever think about moving to New York ?

marcus says

You could just say. "Okay, thanks for explaining to me how it works Marcus. I now know that if I had read #23 and understood it, I would see that in your case, and you were referring to yourself, you are indeed getting only $500/year for your Masters Degree. Thanks for clarifying why what you said was in fact true. "

No Marcus, you were exceptionally misleading - though perhaps it was just a brain fart - when you claimed you only got $500 for having a Masters, then AFTER I presented multiple Districts "Step And Lane" pay scales that showed compensation for BAs, BA+X, and Masters, you piped up with getting paid extra for credits.

I doubt even a crappy state like Arkansas pays only $500/yr more for a Masters.

I should have known better.

Like Trump, TrumpCucks will even argue actual facts, repeatedly, and the fact is reasserted, REPEATEDLY. I admit, I'm at a loss to function is a world where actual facts aren't a thing anymore.

It's an example of a term fact checkers have come up for a new type of lie (in the Trump era) : "the “Bottomless Pinocchio”

Just this month, the newspaper’s Fact Checker was forced to create a new category of lying just for the Trump era: the “Bottomless Pinocchio” for “when a politician refuses to drop a claim that has been fact checked as three or four Pinocchios, keeps saying it over and over and over again, so that it basically becomes disinformation, propaganda.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/opinion/trump-russia-michael-cohen-charity.html

I'm sure that Trump would be very proud of the degree to which you've adopted his techniques, and your impressive inability to accept the simplest of facts if it even sort of contradicts a position you've taken, however trivial and unimportant.

It's not as if simply learning something would be easier ?

marcus says

Like Trump, TrumpCucks will even argue actual facts, repeatedly, and the fact is reasserted, REPEATEDLY. I admit, I'm at a loss to function is a world where actual facts aren't a thing anymore.

Oh dear Marcus... look back on the thread. You said you only got $500/yr extra for having a Masters. I wasn't the only one who was dubious of that assertion.

FINALLY, you admitted you did receive compensation for "Credits" above your Bachelor's degree.

Give it a rest, already.

marcus says

theoakman says

I doubt I get that though.

If you really think that, and don't have too many ties in NJ, did you ever think about moving to New York ?

Absolutely not. I grew up 15 minutes outside of NYC. The cost of living is way too high and the schools suck. I'm also 38 years old. It's too late to try to switch careers to enter a different pension system. What I did do was leave my first district because the union was negotiating pay decreases in exchange for exclusive perks for members on the negotiation team. I was able to essentially negotiate a $30k pay raise on my own and make enough money to save for my own retirement. Teaching Physics gives you huge bargaining power. I also have built a significant private tutoring business here in NJ. Me personally, I'm fine. The other 99.9% of teachers who have entered the profession the past 10 years, they are screwed.

HeadSet says

I'm a teacher in NJ. I fully expect my pension to be dead in the water and the absolute best I could ever hope for is 50% of what was promised. I doubt I get that though.

My wife was an elementary teacher in Va and NE. Both those States use a vesting system. Does NJ have some kind of defined benefit pension?

10 years in, you get a pension. I'm in my 10th. 25 in, you are fully vested and supposed to get health insurance. But the system is on it's way to bankruptcy fast. They just recently cut the benefits of retirees to cut their health insurance. It's only the beginning of the problems. The state of NJ raided the pension system years ago in return for a promise to fund it in the future. But Chris Christie successfully challenged that promise in court and they have no plans to pay up. So they took the money, and never pay it back. The public workers of NJ were robbed.