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Does social status still matter at a certain age?
invite response
2019 Mar 5, 6:40am 1,791 views 18 comments
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1
anonymous
2019 Mar 5, 6:42am
The Psychology of Social Status - How the pursuit of status can lead to aggressive and self-defeating behavior
Nobel Laureate economist, John Harsanyi, said that “apart from economic payoffs, social status seems to be the most important incentive and motivating force of social behavior.” The more noticeable status disparities are, the more concerned with status people become, and the differences between the haves and have-nots have been extremely pronounced during the economic recession of recent years. Barack Obama campaigned directly on the issue of the “dwindling middle class” during his 2008 presidential run and appointed vice-president Joe Biden to lead a middle class task force specifically to bolster this demographic. Despite some recent economic improvement, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont just two months ago cautioned that “the reality is that the middle class today in this country is in desperate shape and the gap between the very very wealthy and everyone else is going to grow wider.” Concerns about status likely will not be leaving the public consciousness any time soon.
Of course, status differences are not simply relevant to economic standing, but they appear to be on our minds at all times. As renowned neuroscientist, Michael Gazzaniga, has noted, “When you get up in the morning, you do not think about triangles and squares and these similes that psychologists have been using for the past 100 years. You think about status. You think about where you are in relation to your peers.” Between CEO and employee, quarterback and wide receiver, husband and wife, status looms large. Recent work by social scientists has tackled the topic, elucidating behavioral differences between low-status and high-status individuals, and the methods by which those at the bottom of the totem pole are most successful at climbing to the top.
Psychologist PJ Henry at DePaul University recently published an article demonstrating that low-status individuals have higher tendencies toward violent behavior, explaining these differences in terms of low-status compensation theory. Henry began this work by observing that murder rates were higher in regions with landscapes conducive to herding compared to regions that are conducive to farming, consistent with prior research showing an association between herding-based economies and violence. The traditional explanation for this pattern, popularized by psychologists Dov Cohen and Richard Nisbett, is that herding cultures have a propensity for maintaining a Culture of Honor. The story goes that because herders from Southern Britain originally settled in the Southern United States (and also established a herding economy on the new land), this left them in an economically precarious position. The possessions of these herdsmen—the most important of which was their livestock—was susceptible to theft, forcing individuals to develop a quick trigger in response to threats, economic or otherwise. In comparison, the farming economy of the North was far more secure, requiring a less aggressive and protective stance toward one’s personal resources.
Henry took on the traditional Culture of Honor hypothesis to suggest instead that differences between herding and farming cultures in violence actually stem from differences in status. His theory is based on a considerable psychological literature demonstrating that individuals from low-status groups (e.g. ethnic minorities) tend to engage in more vigilant psychological self-protection than those from high-status groups. Low-status people are much more sensitive to being socially rejected and are more inclined to monitor their environment for threats. Because of this vigilance toward protecting their sense of self-worth, low-status individuals are quicker to respond violently to personal threats and insults.
Henry first examined archival data on counties across the American South to show that murder rates from 1972 to 2006 were far higher in counties that were dry and hilly (conducive to herding) than those that were moist and flat (conducive to farming). Above and beyond the effect of geography, however, the level of status disparities in a particular county explained these increased murder rates. Even after accounting for the general level of wealth in a given county (wealthier counties tend to have lower murder rates), status disparity still predicted murder rates. Not content with merely looking at the United States, Henry analyzed data from 92 countries around the world, to find a replication of this pattern. From Albania to Zimbabwe, greater status disparities predicted greater levels of violence.
To provide evidence that tendencies for psychological self-protection were the crucial critical link between status and violence, Henry assessed survey data from over 1,500 Americans. In this nationally representative sample, low-socioeconomic status (low-SES) individuals reported far more psychological defensiveness in terms of considering themselves more likely to be taken advantage of and trusting people less.
Finally, in an experiment with both high- and low-SES college students, Henry demonstrated that boosting people’s sense of self-worth diminished aggressive tendencies amongst low-status individuals. Henry asked some students in the experiment to write about a time when they felt important and valuable. Other students did not receive this assignment, but instead completed a rote task about defining nouns. In a second portion of the experiment, all participants answered questions about how willing they would be to respond aggressively to threats. Consistent with the general population studies, college students from low-SES backgrounds expressed more willingness to respond aggressively to insults, but this tendency diminished markedly for those who first wrote about themselves as important and valuable.
Although this pattern of low-status compensation is important on its own, it is also unfortunate given a separate body of research on how people actually attain higher status. This research, recently summarized in an article by psychologists, Cameron Anderson and Gavin J Kilduff, shows that those who are effective in attaining status do so through behaving generously and helpfully to bolster their value to their group. In other words, low-status individuals’ aggressive and violent behavior is precisely the opposite of what they should be doing to ascend the societal totem pole.
Anderson and Kilduff demonstrated in one study that people in a group math problem-solving task who merely signaled their competence through being more vocal attained higher status and were able to do so regardless of their actual competence on the task. Research by psychologists Charlie L. Hardy and Mark Van Vugt, and sociologist Robb Willer have shown that generosity is the key to status. People afford greater status to individuals who donate more of their own money to a communal fund and those who sacrifice their individual interests for the public good. Demonstrating your value to a group—whether through competence or selflessness—appears to improve status. Anderson and Aiwa Shirako suggest that the amplifier for this effect is the degree to which one has social connections with others. Their studies involved MBA students engaging in a variety of negotiations tasks. They showed that individuals who behaved cooperatively attained a more positive reputation, but only if they were socially embedded in the group. Those who behaved cooperatively, but lacked connections went unnoticed. Social connectedness had similar effects for uncooperative MBA students. Those who were selfish and well-connected saw their reputation diminish.
The sum of these findings can begin to explain the troubled circumstances of those lowest in status. Ongoing efforts to maintain a positive view of oneself despite economic and social hardships can engage psychological defense mechanisms that are ultimately self-defeating. Instead of ingratiating themselves to those around them – this is the successful strategy for status attainment - low-status individuals may be more prone to bullying and hostile behavior, especially when provoked. Research identifying factors that lead to successful status-seeking provides some optimism, though. Individuals capable of signaling their worth to others rather than being preoccupied with signaling their worth to themselves may be able to break the self-defeating cycle of low-status behavior.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-social/
Nobel Laureate economist, John Harsanyi, said that “apart from economic payoffs, social status seems to be the most important incentive and motivating force of social behavior.” The more noticeable status disparities are, the more concerned with status people become, and the differences between the haves and have-nots have been extremely pronounced during the economic recession of recent years. Barack Obama campaigned directly on the issue of the “dwindling middle class” during his 2008 presidential run and appointed vice-president Joe Biden to lead a middle class task force specifically to bolster this demographic. Despite some recent economic improvement, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont just two months ago cautioned that “the reality is that the middle class today in this country is in desperate shape and the gap between the very very wealthy and everyone else is going to grow wider.” Concerns about status likely will not be leaving the public consciousness any time soon.
Of course, status differences are not simply relevant to economic standing, but they appear to be on our minds at all times. As renowned neuroscientist, Michael Gazzaniga, has noted, “When you get up in the morning, you do not think about triangles and squares and these similes that psychologists have been using for the past 100 years. You think about status. You think about where you are in relation to your peers.” Between CEO and employee, quarterback and wide receiver, husband and wife, status looms large. Recent work by social scientists has tackled the topic, elucidating behavioral differences between low-status and high-status individuals, and the methods by which those at the bottom of the totem pole are most successful at climbing to the top.
Psychologist PJ Henry at DePaul University recently published an article demonstrating that low-status individuals have higher tendencies toward violent behavior, explaining these differences in terms of low-status compensation theory. Henry began this work by observing that murder rates were higher in regions with landscapes conducive to herding compared to regions that are conducive to farming, consistent with prior research showing an association between herding-based economies and violence. The traditional explanation for this pattern, popularized by psychologists Dov Cohen and Richard Nisbett, is that herding cultures have a propensity for maintaining a Culture of Honor. The story goes that because herders from Southern Britain originally settled in the Southern United States (and also established a herding economy on the new land), this left them in an economically precarious position. The possessions of these herdsmen—the most important of which was their livestock—was susceptible to theft, forcing individuals to develop a quick trigger in response to threats, economic or otherwise. In comparison, the farming economy of the North was far more secure, requiring a less aggressive and protective stance toward one’s personal resources.
Henry took on the traditional Culture of Honor hypothesis to suggest instead that differences between herding and farming cultures in violence actually stem from differences in status. His theory is based on a considerable psychological literature demonstrating that individuals from low-status groups (e.g. ethnic minorities) tend to engage in more vigilant psychological self-protection than those from high-status groups. Low-status people are much more sensitive to being socially rejected and are more inclined to monitor their environment for threats. Because of this vigilance toward protecting their sense of self-worth, low-status individuals are quicker to respond violently to personal threats and insults.
Henry first examined archival data on counties across the American South to show that murder rates from 1972 to 2006 were far higher in counties that were dry and hilly (conducive to herding) than those that were moist and flat (conducive to farming). Above and beyond the effect of geography, however, the level of status disparities in a particular county explained these increased murder rates. Even after accounting for the general level of wealth in a given county (wealthier counties tend to have lower murder rates), status disparity still predicted murder rates. Not content with merely looking at the United States, Henry analyzed data from 92 countries around the world, to find a replication of this pattern. From Albania to Zimbabwe, greater status disparities predicted greater levels of violence.
To provide evidence that tendencies for psychological self-protection were the crucial critical link between status and violence, Henry assessed survey data from over 1,500 Americans. In this nationally representative sample, low-socioeconomic status (low-SES) individuals reported far more psychological defensiveness in terms of considering themselves more likely to be taken advantage of and trusting people less.
Finally, in an experiment with both high- and low-SES college students, Henry demonstrated that boosting people’s sense of self-worth diminished aggressive tendencies amongst low-status individuals. Henry asked some students in the experiment to write about a time when they felt important and valuable. Other students did not receive this assignment, but instead completed a rote task about defining nouns. In a second portion of the experiment, all participants answered questions about how willing they would be to respond aggressively to threats. Consistent with the general population studies, college students from low-SES backgrounds expressed more willingness to respond aggressively to insults, but this tendency diminished markedly for those who first wrote about themselves as important and valuable.
Although this pattern of low-status compensation is important on its own, it is also unfortunate given a separate body of research on how people actually attain higher status. This research, recently summarized in an article by psychologists, Cameron Anderson and Gavin J Kilduff, shows that those who are effective in attaining status do so through behaving generously and helpfully to bolster their value to their group. In other words, low-status individuals’ aggressive and violent behavior is precisely the opposite of what they should be doing to ascend the societal totem pole.
Anderson and Kilduff demonstrated in one study that people in a group math problem-solving task who merely signaled their competence through being more vocal attained higher status and were able to do so regardless of their actual competence on the task. Research by psychologists Charlie L. Hardy and Mark Van Vugt, and sociologist Robb Willer have shown that generosity is the key to status. People afford greater status to individuals who donate more of their own money to a communal fund and those who sacrifice their individual interests for the public good. Demonstrating your value to a group—whether through competence or selflessness—appears to improve status. Anderson and Aiwa Shirako suggest that the amplifier for this effect is the degree to which one has social connections with others. Their studies involved MBA students engaging in a variety of negotiations tasks. They showed that individuals who behaved cooperatively attained a more positive reputation, but only if they were socially embedded in the group. Those who behaved cooperatively, but lacked connections went unnoticed. Social connectedness had similar effects for uncooperative MBA students. Those who were selfish and well-connected saw their reputation diminish.
The sum of these findings can begin to explain the troubled circumstances of those lowest in status. Ongoing efforts to maintain a positive view of oneself despite economic and social hardships can engage psychological defense mechanisms that are ultimately self-defeating. Instead of ingratiating themselves to those around them – this is the successful strategy for status attainment - low-status individuals may be more prone to bullying and hostile behavior, especially when provoked. Research identifying factors that lead to successful status-seeking provides some optimism, though. Individuals capable of signaling their worth to others rather than being preoccupied with signaling their worth to themselves may be able to break the self-defeating cycle of low-status behavior.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of-social/
2
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2019 Mar 5, 7:18am
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2019 Mar 5, 7:18am
What idiot cares about how they are perceived by other adults?
I thought this crap ends after grade school.
I thought this crap ends after grade school.
3
anonymous
2019 Mar 5, 7:21am
2 CovfefeButDeadly ignore (5) 2019 Mar 5, 7:18am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
What idiot cares about how they are perceived by other adults?
I thought this crap ends after grade school.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Au contraire mon frère - it is the very essence of life in Southern California, Wall Street and many other places. Image is everything.
Go back a few years over the posts on this forum and it is alive and well here.
What idiot cares about how they are perceived by other adults?
I thought this crap ends after grade school.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Au contraire mon frère - it is the very essence of life in Southern California, Wall Street and many other places. Image is everything.
Go back a few years over the posts on this forum and it is alive and well here.
4
komputodo
2019 Mar 5, 7:24am
komputodo
2019 Mar 5, 7:24am
Kakistocracy says
Thats a first world problem that afflicts mentally weak individuals.
Does social status still matter at a certain age?
Thats a first world problem that afflicts mentally weak individuals.
5
anonymous
2019 Mar 5, 7:29am
4 komputodo ignore (0) 2019 Mar 5, 7:24am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Kakistocracy says
Does social status still matter at a certain age?
Thats a first world problem that afflicts mentally weak individuals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Au contraire mon frère - The recent ‘yellow vest’ demonstrations in France could well be simply a variant of the regional and social divides potentially linked to the same trend towards a rejection of globalisation that has emerged in a number of OECD countries (Pastor and Veronesi 2018, Rodrik 2017). That is probably partly true, but the reasons for this movement are also rooted in a profound inequality of opportunity (OECD 2018).
It takes more than six generations in France for a person at the bottom end of income distribution to reach the mean.
More than 15% of 15-year-olds have poor numeracy and comprehension skills, which are likely to lead to difficulties in finding work later. Of all the OECD countries, only Hungary shows more social determinism than France.
Inequalities of Opportunity That Are Reproduced Throughout the Educational System and From One Generation to Another
Contradicting the oft-repeated assertion, France suffers not from insufficient income redistribution but from an inequality of opportunity that perpetuates economic and social situations from one generation to the next. In other words, the social elevator is broken and has been for some time. That inequality of opportunity hits not only the poorest – it also to some extent affects the middle classes.
Disparities between socio-professional categories and regions take root at a very early age. Although much early childhood education and care is provided through the social system and with state support, only 30% of children in the least well-off third of the population benefit from ‘formal’ childcare services (nurseries, daycare or qualified childminders), compared with nearly 60% for the population as a whole. It is partly a question of access – such services are more or less well-developed depending on the municipality or neighbourhood. Yet they are important factors in a young child’s early learning, development, and socialisation.
The disadvantages of a low-income socioeconomic background persist at school. The OECD’s PISA studies assess the educational performance of 15-year-olds. The studies show that 15% of schoolchildren in France have low skills in reading comprehension and mathematics, one of the highest rates across OECD countries. They also show that the level of influence of social background on educational attainment is one of the highest among OECD countries. This is particularly true in mathematics, a subject which, as is well-known, has a considerable effect in France on access to the best educational opportunities. Here again local differences play a significant part, since it is more difficult to attract experienced teachers to some schools and some geographical areas concentrate pupils in difficulty.
Differences in educational level affect access to employment. The proportion of young people not in education, employment or training (NEET) in France is higher than the EU average. Access to employment differs considerably according to level of qualification, and the premium for the most highly qualified is significantly higher than elsewhere. The employment rate of those leaving the educational system with an average general-education diploma (secondary or non-higher post-secondary) is 51%, one of the lowest in the EU (only Italy and Greece score worse). In contrast, the employment rate for higher-education graduates is 83%, close to the EU average.
These differences in access to employment are persistent, not least because the lifelong learning system fails to remedy them among the low-skilled. The high proportion of low-skilled young people persists from one generation to the next and the proportion of low-skilled adults is also one of the highest in OECD countries – France ranks fifth among countries where adult skills are lowest as measured by PIAAC, the OECD’s adult skills survey. This is not corrected by access to training. First, the low-skilled are 50% less likely than others to have access to training. Second, the rate of participation in formal training in the array of available lifelong learning options is again one of the lowest among OECD countries. Recent reforms are seeking to change this situation, but much remains to be done. While recent one-off plans have helped to give the unemployed access to training, the same does not apply to the inactive.
Income gaps reflect disparities in access to employment and in taxation. In France, the income of the poorest 20% of the population, as well as the median disposable income, did not increase between 2008 and 2016. The targeted reduced rates of social security contributions may have significantly lowered the cost of labour for those on the minimum wage, but those contributions continue to weigh heavily on the median wage. Employers’ contributions as a proportion of gross wages are very low for the minimum wage (4% after the latest reductions), but rise to 36% for the median wage, a unique gap among OECD countries. Although this helps to provide welcome support for low-skilled jobs, it probably also holds back the increase in income between the minimum and the median wage, which may partly explain why there has been little gains in the purchasing power of the low-paid.
Redistribution corrects the most flagrant inequalities but does little to benefit the middle classes. The redistribution system in France is extensive and does much to correct poverty through substantial transfers to the least well-off households. Nonetheless, income inequalities before taxes and transfers are high in relation to the OECD average. Taxes and transfers, including unemployment benefits and pensions, merely reduce inequalities in income distribution to the OECD average. That suggests less redistribution of transfers net of tax to the middle classes.
Substantial housing costs add to these income disparities. Housing costs are a major item of basic household expenditure, and housing as a share of household consumption in France is higher than the European average. Again, a substantial social housing stock and significant housing benefits help to correct this for the least well-off households. Not all such households receive them, however, and middle-class households even less so.
Redistribution through taxes and social transfers is a powerful way of reducing income inequality but substantial inequalities of opportunity remain, mostly linked to the educational system. Redistribution supports the standard of living of the poorest households but fails to correct disparities in the middle of the distribution range. Above all, it is not sufficient to curb inequality of opportunity linked to socioeconomic background or territorial inequalities. The urgent need to give everyone a chance to succeed will require reform of the education system to ensure that through education and training every child has an opportunity to advance, from early childhood and throughout his or her life, and that every adult who has missed a step can catch up. The next OECD survey of France, to be published in April, will contain recommendations along those lines.
Note: Graphics included in the link below
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/03/france-inequality-social-elevator.html
Kakistocracy says
Does social status still matter at a certain age?
Thats a first world problem that afflicts mentally weak individuals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Au contraire mon frère - The recent ‘yellow vest’ demonstrations in France could well be simply a variant of the regional and social divides potentially linked to the same trend towards a rejection of globalisation that has emerged in a number of OECD countries (Pastor and Veronesi 2018, Rodrik 2017). That is probably partly true, but the reasons for this movement are also rooted in a profound inequality of opportunity (OECD 2018).
It takes more than six generations in France for a person at the bottom end of income distribution to reach the mean.
More than 15% of 15-year-olds have poor numeracy and comprehension skills, which are likely to lead to difficulties in finding work later. Of all the OECD countries, only Hungary shows more social determinism than France.
Inequalities of Opportunity That Are Reproduced Throughout the Educational System and From One Generation to Another
Contradicting the oft-repeated assertion, France suffers not from insufficient income redistribution but from an inequality of opportunity that perpetuates economic and social situations from one generation to the next. In other words, the social elevator is broken and has been for some time. That inequality of opportunity hits not only the poorest – it also to some extent affects the middle classes.
Disparities between socio-professional categories and regions take root at a very early age. Although much early childhood education and care is provided through the social system and with state support, only 30% of children in the least well-off third of the population benefit from ‘formal’ childcare services (nurseries, daycare or qualified childminders), compared with nearly 60% for the population as a whole. It is partly a question of access – such services are more or less well-developed depending on the municipality or neighbourhood. Yet they are important factors in a young child’s early learning, development, and socialisation.
The disadvantages of a low-income socioeconomic background persist at school. The OECD’s PISA studies assess the educational performance of 15-year-olds. The studies show that 15% of schoolchildren in France have low skills in reading comprehension and mathematics, one of the highest rates across OECD countries. They also show that the level of influence of social background on educational attainment is one of the highest among OECD countries. This is particularly true in mathematics, a subject which, as is well-known, has a considerable effect in France on access to the best educational opportunities. Here again local differences play a significant part, since it is more difficult to attract experienced teachers to some schools and some geographical areas concentrate pupils in difficulty.
Differences in educational level affect access to employment. The proportion of young people not in education, employment or training (NEET) in France is higher than the EU average. Access to employment differs considerably according to level of qualification, and the premium for the most highly qualified is significantly higher than elsewhere. The employment rate of those leaving the educational system with an average general-education diploma (secondary or non-higher post-secondary) is 51%, one of the lowest in the EU (only Italy and Greece score worse). In contrast, the employment rate for higher-education graduates is 83%, close to the EU average.
These differences in access to employment are persistent, not least because the lifelong learning system fails to remedy them among the low-skilled. The high proportion of low-skilled young people persists from one generation to the next and the proportion of low-skilled adults is also one of the highest in OECD countries – France ranks fifth among countries where adult skills are lowest as measured by PIAAC, the OECD’s adult skills survey. This is not corrected by access to training. First, the low-skilled are 50% less likely than others to have access to training. Second, the rate of participation in formal training in the array of available lifelong learning options is again one of the lowest among OECD countries. Recent reforms are seeking to change this situation, but much remains to be done. While recent one-off plans have helped to give the unemployed access to training, the same does not apply to the inactive.
Income gaps reflect disparities in access to employment and in taxation. In France, the income of the poorest 20% of the population, as well as the median disposable income, did not increase between 2008 and 2016. The targeted reduced rates of social security contributions may have significantly lowered the cost of labour for those on the minimum wage, but those contributions continue to weigh heavily on the median wage. Employers’ contributions as a proportion of gross wages are very low for the minimum wage (4% after the latest reductions), but rise to 36% for the median wage, a unique gap among OECD countries. Although this helps to provide welcome support for low-skilled jobs, it probably also holds back the increase in income between the minimum and the median wage, which may partly explain why there has been little gains in the purchasing power of the low-paid.
Redistribution corrects the most flagrant inequalities but does little to benefit the middle classes. The redistribution system in France is extensive and does much to correct poverty through substantial transfers to the least well-off households. Nonetheless, income inequalities before taxes and transfers are high in relation to the OECD average. Taxes and transfers, including unemployment benefits and pensions, merely reduce inequalities in income distribution to the OECD average. That suggests less redistribution of transfers net of tax to the middle classes.
Substantial housing costs add to these income disparities. Housing costs are a major item of basic household expenditure, and housing as a share of household consumption in France is higher than the European average. Again, a substantial social housing stock and significant housing benefits help to correct this for the least well-off households. Not all such households receive them, however, and middle-class households even less so.
Redistribution through taxes and social transfers is a powerful way of reducing income inequality but substantial inequalities of opportunity remain, mostly linked to the educational system. Redistribution supports the standard of living of the poorest households but fails to correct disparities in the middle of the distribution range. Above all, it is not sufficient to curb inequality of opportunity linked to socioeconomic background or territorial inequalities. The urgent need to give everyone a chance to succeed will require reform of the education system to ensure that through education and training every child has an opportunity to advance, from early childhood and throughout his or her life, and that every adult who has missed a step can catch up. The next OECD survey of France, to be published in April, will contain recommendations along those lines.
Note: Graphics included in the link below
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/03/france-inequality-social-elevator.html
6
Onvacation
2019 Mar 5, 7:30am
Onvacation
2019 Mar 5, 7:30am
The patnet standard is to link to an article, quote a small piece of it, and then write YOUR ideas.
Don't Cut and paste it.
Just my opinion. I am getting tired of scrolling through long copies of someone elses ideas.
Don't Cut and paste it.
Just my opinion. I am getting tired of scrolling through long copies of someone elses ideas.
7
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2019 Mar 5, 8:19am
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2019 Mar 5, 8:19am
Maybe a larger issue is ignoring users, logging out to see what those users posted, and then quoting them. Maybe someone should do a psyche profile of someone who does that.
8
cmdrda2leak
2019 Mar 5, 8:29am
cmdrda2leak
2019 Mar 5, 8:29am
Onvacation says
Or intersperse your reactions throughout the quoted text, as that's a reasonable format to read linearly.
The patnet standard is to link to an article, quote a small piece of it, and then write YOUR ideas.
Don't Cut and paste it.
Just my opinion. I am getting tired of scrolling through long copies of someone elses ideas.
Or intersperse your reactions throughout the quoted text, as that's a reasonable format to read linearly.
9
Goran_K
2019 Mar 5, 8:33am
Goran_K
2019 Mar 5, 8:33am
I find this is a huge problem for leftist. When you don't have foundational values instilled during childhood, you look to outward acceptance to justify your place in the world. This is the entire catalyst for intersectionality and the religion of victimhood and why so many white people (Shaun King, Rachel Dolezal, etc) hate who they are and try to be something else.
10
anonymous
2019 Mar 5, 8:54am
6 Onvacation ignore (3) 2019 Mar 5, 7:30am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
The patnet standard is to link to an article, quote a small piece of it, and then write YOUR ideas.
Don't Cut and paste it.
Just my opinion. I am getting tired of scrolling through long copies of someone elses ideas.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't like it - don't read it. Then tired won't be a problem, will it ?
Who posted the article/thread is obvious - just skip it and move on to someone who posts things that fit your requirements.
It's there because too may people react to headlines and never take the time to read
The only complaints right now are from those I have on ignore - why is that ?
Does that make it harder to say something inane against the person posting ?
Cudo's on the use of the bold - very very impressive - not
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 CovfefeButDeadly ignore (5) 2019 Mar 5, 8:19am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Maybe a larger issue is ignoring users, logging out to see what those users posted, and then quoting them. Maybe someone should do a psyche profile of someone who does that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Go for it - then do a psyche profile on respondents who can't come up with an intelligent response the majority of the time and engage in endless games of "gotcha",
"so what you're saying", "you feel" (wont be anything at all like the view expressed by the person being attacked),
"I/we can put you down as (believing in, supporting, etc." -
Again not at all like view views expressed by the person being attacked) but done to get a mind numbing back and forth going for the sole purpose of entertaining someone who has no real interest in anything but trolling and hoping to get some high fives from like minded people.
The patnet standard is to link to an article, quote a small piece of it, and then write YOUR ideas.
Don't Cut and paste it.
Just my opinion. I am getting tired of scrolling through long copies of someone elses ideas.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't like it - don't read it. Then tired won't be a problem, will it ?
Who posted the article/thread is obvious - just skip it and move on to someone who posts things that fit your requirements.
It's there because too may people react to headlines and never take the time to read
The only complaints right now are from those I have on ignore - why is that ?
Does that make it harder to say something inane against the person posting ?
Cudo's on the use of the bold - very very impressive - not
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 CovfefeButDeadly ignore (5) 2019 Mar 5, 8:19am ↑ like (0) ↓ dislike (0) quote flag
Maybe a larger issue is ignoring users, logging out to see what those users posted, and then quoting them. Maybe someone should do a psyche profile of someone who does that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Go for it - then do a psyche profile on respondents who can't come up with an intelligent response the majority of the time and engage in endless games of "gotcha",
"so what you're saying", "you feel" (wont be anything at all like the view expressed by the person being attacked),
"I/we can put you down as (believing in, supporting, etc." -
Again not at all like view views expressed by the person being attacked) but done to get a mind numbing back and forth going for the sole purpose of entertaining someone who has no real interest in anything but trolling and hoping to get some high fives from like minded people.
11
anonymous
2019 Mar 5, 9:32am
Please note on the upper left corner of the page per Patrick:
"Freedom To Offend"
Based on the whining from the last few days it seems I am living up to the motto.
Again - see something I post & don't want to read - skip it and move on to someone who posts things that meet the personal requirements.
"Freedom To Offend"
Based on the whining from the last few days it seems I am living up to the motto.
Again - see something I post & don't want to read - skip it and move on to someone who posts things that meet the personal requirements.
12
Shaman
2019 Mar 5, 10:06am
Shaman
2019 Mar 5, 10:06am
I liked the article about the business professionals retraining to be teachers. Teaching is a lot of fun, or it can be. I taught high school chemistry for a semester right out of college as a long term sub, before I moved on to do things that made lots more money.
It might be fun to retrain as a teacher someday. I can retire from this job in 15 years and retraining as a teacher sounds cool. I could take the required classes part time in the years before retirement.
It might be fun to retrain as a teacher someday. I can retire from this job in 15 years and retraining as a teacher sounds cool. I could take the required classes part time in the years before retirement.
13
AD
2019 Mar 5, 10:29am
AD
2019 Mar 5, 10:29am
I suspect if the former banker was a male, particularly white male, non-Jewish, then he'd get a lot of crap from the predominantly female faculty at the public high school, middle school or grade school. The female faculty are a catty bunch.
14
MrMagic
2019 Mar 5, 10:29am
MrMagic
2019 Mar 5, 10:29am
CovfefeButDeadly says
This is extremely true...
It borders on being a Troll and a forum spammer. If we took a vote, I can guess what the outcome would be.
Or, it's just serious TDS with the need to hide behind ignore... We've seen this in the past from other Lefties that are no longer with us.
Maybe a larger issue is ignoring users, logging out to see what those users posted, and then quoting them. Maybe someone should do a psyche profile of someone who does that.
This is extremely true...
It borders on being a Troll and a forum spammer. If we took a vote, I can guess what the outcome would be.
Or, it's just serious TDS with the need to hide behind ignore... We've seen this in the past from other Lefties that are no longer with us.
15
Ceffer
2019 Mar 5, 10:33am
Ceffer
2019 Mar 5, 10:33am
Stuffing impressionable minds with delusional socialist drivel and directed re-invention of history must be great fun. Who needs status? That will be taken care of during the impending purges.
16
anonymous
2019 Mar 5, 10:57am
Ceffer says
Stuffing impressionable minds with delusional Trumpian drivel and directed re-invention of history (alternate facts) must be great fun
Stuffing impressionable minds with delusional socialist drivel and directed re-invention of history must be great fun
Stuffing impressionable minds with delusional Trumpian drivel and directed re-invention of history (alternate facts) must be great fun
17
anonymous
2019 Mar 5, 11:05am
As per all the other comments on here that I can not see right now but read earlier - let's not be bullshitting about not wanting to read walls of text, need or desire for transparency etc.....
The commentary stopped being sensible after comments 8 and comment 12.
All the rest has moved into a thinly disguised personal attacks while quickly trying to move this into a political shit storm which is the real end game.
Aside from the two comments cited, all of the rest have in no way touched even remotely on the merits of the articles - or what they do not have to offer.
Once again the high fives are being freely distributed as can be seen by the likes given.
The real goal is to get someone to post a thread or offer their viewpoint and then go into full attack mode - not to discuss the article.
Attack first on the viewpoint, then on the person and as quickly as can be done make it political, morph it into something other than the original topic but by all means keep the attack going.
Should the originator of the thread be proficient at fending off the attack - respond as quickly as possible to other threads by the same poster to make defense all but impossible - then claim victory.
Send out another round of high fives by means of upvotes/likes - mission accomplished.
Find a new poster to attack.
The commentary stopped being sensible after comments 8 and comment 12.
All the rest has moved into a thinly disguised personal attacks while quickly trying to move this into a political shit storm which is the real end game.
Aside from the two comments cited, all of the rest have in no way touched even remotely on the merits of the articles - or what they do not have to offer.
Once again the high fives are being freely distributed as can be seen by the likes given.
The real goal is to get someone to post a thread or offer their viewpoint and then go into full attack mode - not to discuss the article.
Attack first on the viewpoint, then on the person and as quickly as can be done make it political, morph it into something other than the original topic but by all means keep the attack going.
Should the originator of the thread be proficient at fending off the attack - respond as quickly as possible to other threads by the same poster to make defense all but impossible - then claim victory.
Send out another round of high fives by means of upvotes/likes - mission accomplished.
Find a new poster to attack.
18
NDrLoR
2019 Mar 5, 11:54am
NDrLoR
2019 Mar 5, 11:54am
Kakistocracy says
- Gov. Ann Richards of Texas: "One of the best things that happened to me growing up was Mattie Bess Coffield's speech class, which I took during my freshman year at Waco High School. In Miss Coffield's class, I competed in extemporaneous speech, debate and acted in one-act plays. . . . Whenever I get nervous before a speech, I remember what Miss Coffield taught me: `Just visualize your audience as if they were all sitting there in their underwear"
to become a teacherMy mother (1902-1997) taught from 1924 to 1970 and her generation of teachers, although never highly paid, enjoyed as much respect and indeed status as any judge, lawyer, doctor or other professional person of that era. The entire society, students, parents, the legal system supported teachers in every way and never questioned their authority. They didn't have to worry about mentioning religious concepts in class, specifically Christian or Jewish, whether as a source of moral teaching or as an example of the greatest literature ever written. We had Bible readings followed by prayer over the PA system every morning in homeroom before we went to class and I never heard of anyone being hurt by them. Teachers of that era also never made fools of themselves in public and comported themselves with complete dignity. The sexual relationships with students that seem ubiquitous today would have never occurred to that generation of teachers as they had too much self-respect. And their expertise in their various fields was unquestioned. Lyle Skinner directed band at Waco High School from 1932 to 1965 and is still remembered as the greatest band leader of his generation. Three teachers who died young at the height of their success were Leta Spearman who directed WISD's music education department from 1939 to 1964, from a stroke in 1964; Muriel Eggbrecht, librarian and English teacher at Waco High from 1929 to 1960, from cancer, and Lucille Raley, head of WISD's libraries, in a car crash. The older grads still talk with admiration and fondness of these long ago teachers and that kind of status is priceless. I believe those teachers would always rank highly in any group. One of the most fondly remembered teachers, also from Waco High, was Miss Mattie Bess Coffield who taught speech from 1944 until her untimely death in 1962 from cancer at 48. She was renowned not only in Waco but in Texas among other speech teachers in high schools and colleges and always had a prominent role in any speech conventions. Here's former Governor Ann Richards's memory of her in the late 1940's:
- Gov. Ann Richards of Texas: "One of the best things that happened to me growing up was Mattie Bess Coffield's speech class, which I took during my freshman year at Waco High School. In Miss Coffield's class, I competed in extemporaneous speech, debate and acted in one-act plays. . . . Whenever I get nervous before a speech, I remember what Miss Coffield taught me: `Just visualize your audience as if they were all sitting there in their underwear"
When I quit the Financial Times in 2017 to become a trainee teacher, I knew that my future life would contain less of two things. The first was money — which was a bit frightening even though I had slightly softened the impact by stockpiling whatever cash I could lay my hands on.
The second loss was harder to prepare for. My old job came with an unreasonably high level of status. Over three decades I had become used to being eyed by people at dinner parties with slightly more interest once they discovered I was a columnist at the FT. By contrast, the status of teachers is unreasonably low. In most of the world, they are seen as only a little ahead of police officers and far behind doctors and engineers. Only in a few countries, including China and Indonesia, does society value the people who fill children’s minds as highly as those who fix their bodies. Everywhere else, the sneery old saying still gets wheeled out: those who can, do; those who can’t, teach.
At one of the first recruitment evenings of Now Teach, the charity I co-founded in 2016 to persuade ageing professionals to retrain as teachers, a 40-something banker stood up and said what was putting him off becoming a teacher was losing stature in the eyes of his colleagues. At the time I shrugged and told him to stop minding. I’d gone post-status and I advised him to do the same.
Yet the week I started teaching something odd happened. I was cycling along a London street feeling incompetent and out of control in my new job when I was flagged down by a stranger. What you are doing is so important, he said. Congratulations.
I told him it was too early for that. Congratulations would only be in order when I’d learnt how to be a good teacher and stuck at it for five years.
From the start, undeserved congratulations continued to roll in, and people seemed both interested and admiring of what I was up to. If status is what the Cambridge dictionary says it is — “the amount of respect, admiration or importance given to a person” — it was beginning to look like my status as a feeble novice teacher was higher than it was as a competent experienced columnist.
One of my fellow trainees reported something similar. Anne Marie Lawlor, a former top civil servant turned language teacher, noticed early on that people she met socially seemed far more interested in hearing about her new job than they ever were about her old one.
Given that the low status of teachers is one of the reasons they are in such dangerously short supply, this glimpse of high status struck me as worth investigating. I set about polling all the Now Teach trainees — the 45 who trained with me in 2017 and the 75 who started last September — to see if they had experienced it too.
First I asked them if people they met socially found them more interesting. Some replied that they were too weary as trainee teachers to do any socialising. But almost two-thirds reported that people were keener on talking to them than they used to be. This may not be that surprising, as almost everyone is interested in education, and absolutely everyone enjoys a story from the front line. A misbehaving child makes a better anecdote than minutes of a board meeting.
Only one trainee — who used to be a political journalist — said her social worth had dropped as her former friends and colleagues were only interested in the latest Westminster gossip and she no longer had any to offer.
I then asked the group what becoming a teacher had done to their status in the eyes of others. Most used to do jobs that society values (and pays) highly — they were investment bankers, corporate lawyers, consultants, civil servants, film makers and doctors — and most were towards the top of their respective trees. Now all are at the bottom of a less prestigious tree.
Despite all this, only 6 per cent said their status had fallen and about 65 per cent thought it had gone up since becoming teachers.
It would be nice to conclude that the status of teaching is not so grievously low after all, but I suspect the true explanation is otherwise. Becoming a teacher in your 50s, especially when you’ve had a certain amount of success doing something else, seems to be quite different from becoming one in your 20s.
Jonathan Shaw, a former marketing executive, says the reason is all about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs — at the top of which sits some sort of self-actualisation.
“I think lots of us as we get older start to question whether our lives have been well spent,” he says. “Teaching brings a different status and one that’s more relevant to a 50-year-old me than a 25-year-old me.”
Lara Agnew, a former documentary maker who now teaches English, thinks age had changed her idea of what status means.
“I think when we are young we imagine status comes from the outside. The approval, the promotion, the competition — all account for a ‘rise’, as it were, as viewed from the outside.“
Now I am ancient, I realise that my ideas about status come much more from the inside. My own ideas about my contribution, my worth, are what count as status.
”So if the point about status is that we generate it ourselves as we get older, how do the Now Teachers feel about themselves? Has their self-worth gone up as a result of becoming a teacher? In my survey, 62 per cent claimed that it had.
This is remarkable given how difficult and exhausting teaching is, particularly in the first year. One of the 13 per cent who reported a drop in self-worth explained: “It is hard to feel good about yourself when you feel quite so overwhelmed and have no idea what you’re doing.”
But the others insisted they felt better about themselves by virtue of feeling useful. One described the delight he felt when a Year 8 class revealed he was preferred to their previous teacher. “No title or promotion in my old job has ever made me feel this useful and successful,” he said.
Teaching has been good for my own self-worth, though for a different reason. For the first time in my professional life, I don’t think about myself at all. Journalism was partly about me, while teaching is about the children. Even on days when I have given muddled lessons and have not noticeably changed the life of a single child I still go home feeling less out of sorts than after a bad day in the office.
There is a slight irony about this unlooked-for rise in status. I suspect that most of us stopped worrying about our professional status some time ago. I wish I had thought to add a final question to put to the group: how much does status still matter to you? My guess is that most would have answered: not much.
How does it feel to change career? Higher status comes at a price — all of the new teachers are finding their new job somewhere between challenging and bone-crushingly hard. When asked to cite the worst thing about it, they variously replied:
“Feeling hopelessly inadequate”; “bad behaviour of students,” “marking”, “no time to yourself,” “playground duty” and “admin (endless)”.
Yet despite this, few had regrets and almost none were engaging in nostalgia over their previous professional lives.
Nearly half say they never miss their old jobs and a further 35 per cent only felt a pang once a month.
So what was keeping them going? Most of them said the main reason was the students. Here are some of their replies:
“The kids (even the naughty ones).”
“The ‘aha’ moments, when students get it.”
“Becoming a student again.”
"Teaching is never boring.”
“Kids saying, ‘Thank you sir, I get that now!’”
“Having a mother almost in tears at a parents’ evening because she is so grateful that I have managed to set up numeracy support for her boy.”
“Realising that things can improve: kids can learn and so can I.”
Doing maths again.”
“Knowing that every little thing does make a difference, even when you don’t think it has.”
https://www.ft.com/content/d936d5ba-39c7-11e9-b72b-2c7f526ca5d0
#SocialStatus #CareerChange #Teaching #Psychology