patrick.net

I'd say if you are bothered by this at parties, perhaps you should abruptly change the subject or find a new conversation. The banksters were given trillions so supposedly they would fix everything. Instead they are not fixing anything and are basking in the sun and foreclosing on most of the people they were planning to. This is all going exactly according to their plan and you are stuck with it. Is it going to go away anytime soon? Nope. Deal!

Vicente says

The banksters were given trillions so supposedly they would fix everything.

huh? What program are you referring to? TARP was a loan. Not a gift.

TARP? Don't make me laugh. TARP was just a centerpiece shown to the peasants. Free money from the Fed window and other "special programs" are into the many trillions and still ongoing. It's precisely money from those other sources, that the casino operators used to make a few bucks to pay back SOME of TARP. Which is not wound down BTW. If I loan you $700 at low interest rate, then I loan you another $3,000 through other avenues, you are probably not going to have too much trouble using some of that $3,000 to pay back my $700 and thus TA-DA! we're even. Except we aren't, not even close. Why was Goldman Sachs which is an outsize hedge fund that does TRADING FOR ITSELF and is not even primarily an investment bank, made a "bank holding company" and in fact still is? Because it gives them access to "free money" from a lot of programs. Banksters are all still hooked up to the morphine drip and lying about it. And as collateral damage, what's that ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) done to your CD and other "safe" savings accounts?

Vincente,
They are foreclosing on almost no one right now. A few foreclosures at a time while the banks get to borrow money at 0% and lend to us at 17%.

I think the game is to drag out the foreclosures while they make as much as they can and put it in cash so when(if) they are forced to clear the foreclosures they don't *poof*.

But the noise is getting louder and more and more people are heading to foreclosure.

You are right, this is no where near done. In the meantime, I don't want to hear whining any more.
Banks are dicks... yep. You were an idiot when you bought a 300k overpriced condo... yep.

Q: "How quick can the market be cleared of these home debtors so I can get on with buying an affordable house for my family??"

A: Its probably going to drag on for years.

http://housing-kaboom.blogspot.com/2010/02/get-clue-people-prices-aint-coming-back.html?source=patrick.net

Extend and pretend is the name of the game.

Banks are relying on postponing the inevitable and slow it down as much as they can,. In the meanwhile, they are trying to "earn" themselves out of the hole by giving you 0% and charging you 17%, as damenace said.

Damenace, maybe we can all "friend' this guy and show him some looove.

Only kidding.

I would if I did not think it would be like hammering on a brick wall with a plastic hammer.

Funny thing is, about a year ago, this mortgage broker was practically begging for business on facebook. All about how it was never a better time to buy (is it ever not a good time to get a mortgage for him?) and this opportunity will never be around.

Now the bank are idiots for losing 300k according to him.

Vicente says

TARP? Don’t make me laugh. TARP was just a centerpiece shown to the peasants. Free money from the Fed window and other “special programs” are into the many trillions and still ongoing. It’s precisely money from those other sources, that the casino operators used to make a few bucks to pay back SOME of TARP. Which is not wound down BTW. If I loan you $700 at low interest rate, then I loan you another $3,000 through other avenues, you are probably not going to have too much trouble using some of that $3,000 to pay back my $700 and thus TA-DA! we’re even. Except we aren’t, not even close. Why was Goldman Sachs which is an outsize hedge fund that does TRADING FOR ITSELF and is not even primarily an investment bank, made a “bank holding company” and in fact still is? Because it gives them access to “free money” from a lot of programs. Banksters are all still hooked up to the morphine drip and lying about it. And as collateral damage, what’s that ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) done to your CD and other “safe” savings accounts?

That's how banks make money. They loan out money at a higher rate than they pay to get it. I'm not sure where you are looking, but around my parts mortgage rates are at near historic lows. Under 5% for 30 year fixed. So, the spread may be a little higher than usual, but not much.

And we are just fighting to get out of a very severe recession so yes, FED rates are extremely low. They are trying to encourage borrowing and investment so that companies will create new jobs. There's no great conspiracy here....

tatupu70 says

They are trying to encourage borrowing and investment so that companies will create new jobs. There’s no great conspiracy here….

The purpose of low interest is to prop up the bank balance sheets until they have healed themselves. Having that money "trickle down" to you may be a side effect, but is clearly not the intent. Anyhow, who is borrowing money to create more jobs right now? Anyone? Bueller? Seems like the 10% official unemployment rate would tell you THAT didn't work out as planned.

Vicente says

The purpose of low interest is to prop up the bank balance sheets until they have healed themselves. Having that money “trickle down” to you may be a side effect, but is clearly not the intent. If it were, why would the credit market be shrinking?

I can't read the minds of the FED members, but I do know that the FED always lowers interest rates during recessions. So, what you say might be true but it's what they would have done anyways.

Your faith in the benevolent Fed is astounding. Credit is down 7% year-over-year. Who's doing that? The banks. Consequence of contracting their lending? By your own statements it's going to mean job DESTRUCTION not creation.

Government and banksters are telling homedebtors publicly they want to ride to the rescue. However what they are DOING is chicanery like Patrick linked here that encourages foreclosure and short sales:

http://www.thinkbigworksmall.com/mypage/player/tbws/23622/1598681?source=patrick.net

Vicente says

Your faith in the benevolent Fed is astounding. Credit is down 7% year-over-year. Who’s doing that? The banks. Consequence of contracting their lending? By your own statements it’s going to mean job DESTRUCTION not creation.

I don't necessarily have great faith in the FED, but I don't subscribe to any great conspiracy theories whereby they are in cahoots with the banks to swindle the average Joe.

Banks will try to maximize their profits--however they can do it. They have absolutely no altruistic motives. It's all dollars and cents.

My take is the government probably wants to help, but they don't really know how and even when they do--they don't have the right powers to make the banks do what they want.

And the FED is fighting macroeconomic problems. They always lower rates during a recession and keep them low until the economy turns around. There's nothing sinister there.

tatupu70 says

That’s how banks make money. They loan out money at a higher rate than they pay to get it.

Not quite, in fact, not even close. They make HUGE money via fractional reserve banking, i.e. "loaning" out 95% of the money they have on deposit over and over again .... all streamlined by the magic of digital electronics and the banksters all playing the same game.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/frb.html

Great Janet Tavakoli article here, explaining how directing anger at your whining homedebtors is EXACTLY where they want it to go, instead of where it belongs......

Taxpayers are asked to believe that over-borrowing by U.S. consumers created a global financial crisis. This myth aids and abets Wall Street. The economy was nearly destroyed because banks borrowed massively, and they borrowed many multiples more than they could afford. Wall Street pumped the Fed's cheap money through financial meth labs, and deceptive financial vehicles ran over securities laws at top speed.

Wall Street is a High-on-Crack Driver that smashed into your house

tatupu70 says

I don’t necessarily have great faith in the FED, but I don’t subscribe to any great conspiracy theories whereby they are in cahoots with the banks to swindle the average Joe.

Right on. Why would the private banksters of the FED conspire to create economic situations that benefit them? What would be their motive? I'm with you tatupu, private central banksters would never conspire to do anything that would put literally $hundreds of billions in their pockets. I've seen Greenspan and Bernanke, Geitner, etc. they have nice smiles and sound real, real sincere. I'm postitive they can be trusted.

An excellent book on the causes of the residential real estate bubble: "The Housing Boom and Bust" by Thomas Sowell. It's a short read but hits on all the main points, most of which have not been seriously disgussed (surprise!) by the mainstream media.

Vicente says

Great Janet Tavakoli article here, explaining how directing anger at your whining homedebtors is EXACTLY where they want it to go, instead of where it belongs……

I am no fan of the banks either... trust me.
I just don't get to hear them complain all that often so I am not annoyed with them.

RayAmerica says

Not quite, in fact, not even close. They make HUGE money via fractional reserve banking, i.e. “loaning” out 95% of the money they have on deposit over and over again …. all streamlined by the magic of digital electronics and the banksters all playing the same game.

Yes, you are correct that fractional reserve helps banks. But, fundamentally, they make money by loaning it out at higher rates than they pay to get it. Fractional reserve is just leveraging. It doesn't make money--it just amplifies your winnings (or losses).

RayAmerica says

Right on. Why would the private banksters of the FED conspire to create economic situations that benefit them? What would be their motive? I’m with you tatupu, private central banksters would never conspire to do anything that would put literally $hundreds of billions in their pockets. I’ve seen Greenspan and Bernanke, Geitner, etc. they have nice smiles and sound real, real sincere. I’m postitive they can be trusted.

I forgot--the world is out to get you. Don't forget the tinfoil hat--the evil banksters can't get you if you're wearing it...

tatupu70 says

Yes, you are correct that fractional reserve helps banks. But, fundamentally, they make money by loaning it out at higher rates than they pay to get it. Fractional reserve is just leveraging. It doesn’t make money–it just amplifies your winnings (or losses).

Fractional reserve banking "doesn't make money." Really?? Then why do the banks practice it? LOL !!! Fact is, without fractional reserve, the banks wouldn't be in business as we know it.

tatupu70 says

I forgot–the world is out to get you. Don’t forget the tinfoil hat–the evil banksters can’t get you if you’re wearing it…

The Federal Reserve private bankers love people like you, without which their scam would never succeed.

Bankers don't complain? How virtuous of them!
After getting bailout to the tune of trillions on this and future generations' back, even they know to keep their mouth shut. Look at the magnificent compensations of these folks. Let me ask you what did they do that was so magnificent? (Let's not get in the China vs US rathole, please.)
They are counting on sheeple to not complain too much.
What am I doing? I talk about this openly and act on it as well.
I put my money in local CU's. I cut and reduce any CC debt. Never let them get any late fees. I write to my senators/reps/whitehouse. I will help vote the clowns out.

RayAmerica says

Fractional reserve banking “doesn’t make money.” Really?? Then why do the banks practice it? LOL !!! Fact is, without fractional reserve, the banks wouldn’t be in business as we know it.

I told you why--don't you understand?? It's leverage. It allows them to amplify their winnings (or losses). And banks are usually conservative with their investments so they have many more winnings than losings...

RayAmerica says

The Federal Reserve private bankers love people like you, without which their scam would never succeed.

lol---I didn't realize that posting my opinion on Patrick.net was part of their evil plan...

So--does the Fed dislike you because you post bad things about them on a random blog message board? Does that disrupt their plans?

tatupu70 says

I told you why–don’t you understand?? It’s leverage. It allows them to amplify their winnings (or losses). And banks are usually conservative with their investments so they have many more winnings than losings…

"It's leverage." Once again, proof that liberals live in a world constructed by their own simple imagination. Check out this link. It goes into a little more detail than just "leverage." You might, just might learn something. http://www.basicincome.com/basic_banks.htm

RayAmerica says

“It’s leverage.” Once again, proof that liberals live in a world constructed by their own simple imagination. Check out this link. It goes into a little more detail than just “leverage.” You might, just might learn something. http://www.basicincome.com/basic_banks.htm

No, it's pretty much how I described it. How about you tell me how fractional reserve creates earnings for them. Other than by allowing them to loan out more money--because in that case it's the loan that is actually creating earnings, not the fractional reserve.

tatupu70 says

No, it’s pretty much how I described it. How about you tell me how fractional reserve creates earnings for them. Other than by allowing them to loan out more money–because in that case it’s the loan that is actually creating earnings, not the fractional reserve.

The "way you described it" banks "don't make money" on fractional reserve LOL .... and now you expect me to try to make sense to you? Probably an exercise in futility, but here goes: the banks literally create loans out of thin air via the deposits they have on their books, and then collect interest in multiples of 10. If the bank has $100,000 on deposit, they are allowed to "loan" over 10X that amount (in reality it is well over 10X). If they loan out $1 Million (10X the $100K) utilizing their "fraction" at 6%, instead of collecting payments at 6%, they will actually make 60% ! Once again .... check out this site: http://www.basicincome.com/basic_banks.htm

Losing their homes? Most are choosing to walk away. I feel a bit sorry for people who were first-time buyers at the top of the market and are now under water. I do not feel sorry for the ones who made a huge profit off of a former residence and reinvested it into another house. They were not playing with real money. And I certainly don't feel bad for the ones who used their homes as ATM's. They still have all the toys purchased with refi or HELOC money. When I hear one of them crying about house values and talking of letting the bank have the place, I feel like smacking them.

Ray, wish is right, and you are missing a technical point.

If their returns are 0% because of a lot of defaults then 10 x 0 is still.... ZERO.

In this context it's clearly leverage. as surely as a stock trader working on margin.

RayAmerica says

The “way you described it” banks “don’t make money” on fractional reserve LOL …. and now you expect me to try to make sense to you? Probably an exercise in futility, but here goes: the banks literally create loans out of thin air via the deposits they have on their books, and then collect interest in multiples of 10. If the bank has $100,000 on deposit, they are allowed to “loan” over 10X that amount (in reality it is well over 10X). If they loan out $1 Million (10X the $100K) utilizing their “fraction” at 6%, instead of collecting payments at 6%, they will actually make 60% ! Once again …. check out this site: http://www.basicincome.com/basic_banks.htm

Ray--are you really this slow or are you doing this on purpose. Read your post again--they make the money on the loans! Not the fractional reserve. The fractional reserve allows them to make more loans then they would have without it, but it's the loans that make the money.

You've pretty much defined leverage in your post above.

wish i was lucky says

It’s because this is what the Banks wanted to happen in the first place.

Why would the banks want to foreclose?? That makes no sense. They lose their shirts on every foreclosure... There are a LOT of loans that could never be made good no matter how long you extended the term and how low the interest rate became.

tatupu70 says

ay–are you really this slow or are you doing this on purpose. Read your post again–they make the money on the loans! Not the fractional reserve. The fractional reserve allows them to make more loans then they would have without it, but it’s the loans that make the money.
You’ve pretty much defined leverage in your post above

Well your both kinda right. Banks create money when they create a loan. They need to be payed back to reap the benefits though as if a default happens, money is destroyed.

A little example to clarify: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking#Example_of_deposit_multiplication